Off The Record nerf 🤣

They really nerfed it. It doesn't give you endurance anymore

haha classic

Tenacity also has been nerfed going to 25% faster crawling speed instead of 50% and loses its ability to recover and crawl at the same time.

It's hilarious how they revert the changes for anti tunneling and slugging, yet still nerf some of the perks that helped against that leaving anti tunneling and slugging in an even worse state than before. Like please tell me these were mistakes. Please.

Oh dear… That's half of my anti-tunnel build gone (along with MFT, which is now useless to use in combination with it since you can't use OTR's endurance to activate the haste anymore).

Well, that's me avoiding Survivor until the Halloween event then, because I'm not hitting that DS skill check with my 40 year old reaction times. This has got to be an oversight.

Unbelievable. Stocks in DS are about to sky rocket.

Hope got nerfed too btw, i've said it before anything that buffs endgame for killer is UNINTENTIONALLY buffing tunneling idk how BHVR can't see that.

More killers gonna start running endgame builds overall and its so good in combination with tunneling.

Actually crazy how bad this patch is for survivors, weren't they gonna also change road life I swear I saw them say something about that, that perk is ass atm its a joke actually.

OTR is actually just useless now. If the Killer tunnels you losing scratch marks won't do anything, they will just wait 10 seconds and back on the hook you go. It's hilarious how out of touch this is.

Push the Anti-Tunnel Update to live with changes instead of pushing just the perk nerfs.

Ah yes "weaponizing" a perk where you need to be actively useless for 80 seconds and don't progress the game, crazy good weapon there.

I´m not going to play as survivor more. I´m tired to tunnelers killers and we can´t do nothing now.

You know what you can do in that scenario? Hit the survivor. Cancel their perk and hey at that point, chase them since they brought it upon themselves. Pretending like they don't exist because you are scared to hit into endurance is just a bad play.

You unironically would rather have that person do close to a full gen than to run after you in the hope of blocking you? Be real.

Let's look at the times here.

Survivor is unhooked and killer is in chase with another survivor. Survivor needs to get healed, run over to the chase, and take two hits (not to mention if the killer chooses to tunnel this survivor, something the survivors have no foreknowledge of, the whole idea is moot).

If the chase ends before the survivor can reach it, then the survivors would have been better off doing gens.

If the survivor just eats two hits directly in a row, not much time was gained.

If the killer has an insta down, or the ability to get around the block, the survivors would have been better off on gens.

If more than 80 seconds go by, then the OTR was irrelevant and the survivors would have been better off on gens.

So in the window where the survivor can heal, interrupt a chase to take a hit, continue the chase, then take a second hit before the timer elapses, all while giving up time they could be on gens, and now are a target for the killer as they have no other protections and would be, in a best case scenario, going onto death hook.

Sure, that happens occasionally, with a ton of risk. If they pull it off, good for them. Having difficult to pull off actions that carry risk/reward are fine. The issue with tunneling is that it doesn't have any of the above level of skill or risk.

The patch that was initially supposed to put a stop to tunneling as the dominant strategy now only makes it easier and further incentivizes it.

Bravo, BHVR.

Having difficult to pull off actions that carry risk/reward are not automatically fine. 

Who said 'automatically'? You ignore everything up to that point and then add a word in on top of it.

It's not even that difficult when survivors are using voice comms to coordinate everything.

It's easy to say something is easy, but I actually laid out everything that would have to happen and I'm probably missing a few additional things that could derail it.

In this thread you never give a reason why OTR to body block is actually a problem. You just say weaponizing as if somehow the survivors doing things is actively bad.

By that logic, it's completely fine for killers to slug all 4 survivors, because it involves a lot of skill and risk.

If you only think about one thing at a time, sure. But there are obvious other issues come up with all 4 survivors getting slugged that make for a bad game.

How am I supposed to interpret the above sentences, if you aren't literally saying that weaponizing OTR is fine because it's difficult to pull off, and has risk/reward?

I am saying its fine. Nothing in my last post said it wasn't.

I pointed out your use of automatically and acting like this was the only logic that would be used to evaluate game elements was incorrect.

And I've already said that perks having endurance effects is bad, because recently unhooked survivors should not be encouraged to run towards the killer. That is not the intention of anti-tunnel.

Why not and when has BHVR said that it wasn't their intention for it to be used like that (not that's its really relevant as a discussion about what is a healthy game and what is creator intent are different discussions)?

Survivors should be able to work together, to take hits for each other, to run toward the killer. Otherwise the game would quickly grow stale from lack of interactions. There's nothing wrong with a perk that allows that and some perks encourage it explicitly.

Current OTR is way healthier for the game because it actually helps a recently unhooked survivor to actually escape a chase from a killer, which is what anti-tunnel should be doing. 

'which is what anti-tunnel should be doing'

This is viewing things with an absolutist lens. There is no inherent reason a perk can't do one primary thing but also have other possible uses.

It's a self-fulfilling argument, because the perk is referred to as anti-tunnel, it must only be anti-tunnel. That has nothing to do with what is actually a healthy game, its just arguing that perks have to fit perfectly into assigned categories (instead of what phrases like anti-tunnel mean, general descriptors for the perk's primary usage).

Current OTRE is also much better for scenarios where the killer is tunneling off the hook, because previous OTR could just get the endurance effect removed during the basekit endurance timeframe.

For the sake of argument, let's presume this is true.

It has nothing to do with the now old version of OTR being a problem. It's shifting the argument. Saying this version might do something better still doesn't explain why the old version was problematic.