We know players encountered different issues when playing the Black Banquet Event, and we wouldn't want you to leave the feast still hungry. We'll be providing 5M Bloodpoints to all players, redeemable in your in-game inbox. Thank you for your patience as we worked on these issues, and we hope to see you in The Fog!
Yeah, Pallet Changes Are Ass
Suppose I was just getting lucky generation, but yeah, these changes are ass. Less deadzones? Good! I'm okay with more fillers as well, honestly. Shouldn't see safe loops into safe loops though.
I suspect they just upped the limit for tile/pallet generation. I should not be seeing jungle gym into Shack like it's 2018. I can sort of deal with it, but I can imagine I might be one of the last.
I'd appreciate an update from the Developer Team, if they even know this is an issue or if this is just something we are gonna push to live and ignore.
Comments
-
Ive only noticed strong fillers on macmillan and crotus, but those maps also had the new trash replacement for jungle gym tiles and had several main buildings weakened as well as tiles straight up removed. Meanwhile, maps like coldwind and borgo i barely notice any difference.
If theyre reverting the pallet changes they damn well better revert all the killer favored parts too. I swear if we get another QoL update where only the killer part stays im done.
4 -
I dunno if it's just my imagination but I swear there's still deadzones popping up anyway
18 -
The baffling thing is that they spent so much time reducing the number of pallets across many maps over the course of years to get them in a more balanced state, and decided to undo all that work in a single update.
They could have just implemented this on Haddonfield and Forgotten Ruins (maps that actually needed this), and then updated Garden of Joy to be less survivor sided, but nope!
Do they think 1v4 will be more fun if it has as many pallets as 2v8? God forbid survivors have to use their limited resources wisely or something.🙄
14 -
Yamoaka was terrible, specifically Sanctum.
2 -
It seems like the maps that had deadzones still get them
7 -
What are survivors supposed to use to keep themselves alive? First its shrink maps now this?
-35 -
?
15 -
The pallet changes are ass because the developers continue to ignore the problematic S-tier killers that should have been nerfed or altered years ago, instead of pushing out a bunch of pallets that somehow don't even solve dead zones in their maps.
5 -
You cannot tell me with 100% honesty that Crotus Prenn and Suffocation Pit needed more pallets.
Haddonfield, Borgo, Coldwind, sure. Haddonfield still needs a size increase.
But Macmillan and Crotus Prenn should not have a milion pallets.
21 -
Dead Zones still exists and maps depends on RGN extremely a lot. But yes, RGN is really busted right now.
I got Swamp with two windows and pallets on both side. Killer… Killer just DCed. You can’t make mistake simply in specific places. And why people keep calling 50/50 and pallet for distance trash ones? They are pretty good. You aren’t supposed to play them in vacuum, you should connect tiles. And when 3 “trash” fillers are connected to each other, they are turning out to be good. 50/50 doesn’t really exist in such case
7 -
Yeah, it's like they didn't consider individual realms or even single maps (like they should have) and just turned the dial up across the board.
And we know they have metrics for this kind of thing.
16 -
I am very sure they just turned up the dial, as it were.
10 -
Is this why everyone is just playing S tiers now? Getting pretty boring.
I'd much rather see the extra pallets removed if it means more killer variety.
12 -
I'm sure it's part of the reason. I was trying to play Wraith, and it was…difficult.
With so many pallets, it is difficult to play strategically as a Killer who cares about pallets.
Now your Ghoul's Krasue's Nurse's and Blight's probably don't care at all, but everyone else does.
8 -
This pallet density change didn't fix the core issue: removing dead zones. The maps can still spawn with a large grounds being completely naked, while some others are now overfilled with pallets. Like literally pallet next to pallet. They need to look again at those maps and fix it
-1 -
You frequently cite your own kill rate at 80-90%. Has this change affected that? If so, to what degree?
If not, how do you propose survivors are supposed to handle matches vs you with fewer pallets, nerfed main buildings, weaker gym tiles, and shrunken maps?
2 -
Hasn't impacted me, besides frustration. However, I don't think there's many people left from when there were double pallets or jungle gym into Shack, so newer players probably don't know how to deal with it. They shouldn't have to deal with it, because we all agreed that long-wall into Shack was dumb and that double pallets were dumb. Well, everyone except Sluzzy.
They'd be getting the same result. I'm still gonna win lol.
As for in general, literally just remove that part of the update. Take it back to how it was before. This didn't even fix deadzones, it just added more pallets to every map except the one's that needed it. Haddonfield is still ass and Coldwind still spawns huge deadzones in the corn.
if they can't make it so that pallet generation as a whole isn't affected, then don't push it to Live.
0 -
If they actually revert the whole changes, fine. No harm no foul. I dont think the extra pallets are as big a deal as youre making them though. You're admitting its not effecting you winning matches too. Winning chases because 1 pallet spawned in the circus carnival isnt exciting as killer. I'd rather have to actually outplay a tile instead of break pallet, get free hit because its a mile to the next one.
0 -
That's what I'm thinking too. Hoping they realize that it's not the concept but the implementation that's the problem. It would be a shame if it got thrown into the "we tried it but it didn't work" bin.
1 -
Not much outplay at double pallets, just gotta break it. Now repeat that for the whole map.
It isnt affecting me because I've been mostly playing Krasue and because even when I haven't been playing her, I am perfectly capable of begrudgingly dealing with it.
Not everyone has had the....luxury of playing in 2018 DBD. I thought we were past defending this sort of stuff.
2 -
Im just curious what you propose as buffs for survivor? As it stands the only changes that weren't protested have been ways to abandon matches sooner after losing. We couldn't get anti-slug/tunnel after 10 years and we can't have more map resources after years of empty deadzones. We also can't nerf overpowered S tier killers.
Is it just the implementation of the changes? Because survivor is not in a good place and I was under the impression you broadly agreed that killer is too easy.
-1 -
Crazy window into Shack.
Good rock pallet into Shack.
Jungle gym into Prenn tile into jungle gym
Pallet into pallet into jungle gym.
Different Yamoaka. Pallet into Shack into jungle gym, i think.
8 -
I was for the anti-tunnel changes being adjusted, not scrapped.
Mindlessly adding tiles to maps isn't a solution.
12 -
Just going to add that killers aren't exactly in the same state as 2018 either. The majority of the roster laughs at a filler pallet that can't be chained into anything else nearby. Not to mention a plethora of tracking and regression perks that add up to much stronger builds than 2018. And all the survivor perks that were meta in 2018 nerfed.
If all i can do is play 50/50 at a filler pallet and pray to hit validation for a stun that doesnt also injure me, what skill expression do survivors have?
-4 -
There's a big difference between, "Hey, we added more fillers" to "Hey, we screwed up tile generation and now tiles chain like its Old Cowshed"
5 -
Old Cowshed sounds FAIR vs krasue, ghoul, drac, blight, and nurse
-7 -
But quite unfair to the majority of Killers.
8 -
So S tier killers shouldn't exist? Because 3 of them were released in the last year and the other 2 haven't been fixed despite ruling the game for far longer.
-4 -
Yes.
11 -
8 -
They do still happen, just less likely. It seems the way they "fixed" deadzones was just upping the number of pallet spawns and called it a day.
2 -
I don't trust BHVR with this, but why not make the maps generate current pallets if it's an S tier, while everyone else gets pre patch maps?
1 -
I mean, the pallet changes haven't helped SoloQ nor curbed S Tier Killers since they mostly ignore pallets, it's only buffed SWF and further ruined M1 Killers, which ofc is because BHVR panders to SWF above all else. Maps should be dependent on Killer, density and size being determined by what class that Killer is, after BHVR splits them into a couple of groups based on their powers/map traversal.
-1 -
Because nurse is the lowest kill rate killer in the game per their data. You trust BHVR to define what an "S tier" killer is?
2 -
They could start by eliminating random generation. It really doesn't do anything but cause problems. It was fine when there were only a few maps, but that's no longer the case. If the maps were always the same, it would be easier to fix the strong and weak areas.
0 -
It would also contribute to the game being massively stale and same-y, but that's a different issue I guess.
4 -
I saw someone do tests and the maps affected by the pallet change made their average pallet counts upwards of 18 per map. Forget the fact that they chain into each other over and over so the "50/50s" aren't really 50/50's when there's another pallet or tile right there.
2 -
Maybe, but plenty of games have static maps that have been around for decades. Counterstrike, DotA, LoL etc. You get the variety from the opponents you face and in the case of games like LoL a differences in the character. In DBDs case that would be the killer and perks.
-2 -
You should see how insane groaning storehouse gets now, I was playing as Wesker and there was no joke like 5 of these new really safe unmindgamable pallets in a row that chained to shack as well as the main building. Made me wish I had a pallet eating build honestly.
-1 -
To be fair, we have static maps already too. But those tend to be some of the least favored.
6 -
That's less because they are static and more just because the maps themselves are horrible.
5 -
Omg, just played a game as survivor, this is so right. I haven't had this easy of a game as survivor in years. There's just pallets for days, and the killer can't possibly create enough dead zones because there's just pallets everywhere. Literally just run to the nearest pallet and predrop it, who cares if you "waste it" becuase there's 3 more within 12 meters of you.
4 -
I don't know if the extra pallets are the only reason for this, but my Kill rate had gone through the floor recently at just under 40% (despite my hook rate staying pretty much the same). I think there are probably other things happening, like my usual opponents taking a break from the game, but the extra pallets definitely aren't helping me.
On the other hand, I've never seen my Survivor escape rate so high (it's currently at 56.67%. I'm no god looper btw, just an average SoloQ player. Part of that escape rate is down to super chill Killers playing on Switch, but still…)
Is this a result of a partial attempt to 2v8ify the regular mode? It might have been balanced for most players with the Killer buffs that were proposed also in place (base-kit BBQ and mini pop), but we'll never know because almost everything else this patch was put on the back burner. I doubt the very low MMR can make the best use of all the extra pallets but more experienced Survivors are certainly getting a fair amount of value. DBD is such a hard game to balance. I think keeping low and high MMR players happy at the same time is more or less impossible, especially if we all have to adopt the same chase orientated playstyle of looping above all else.
2 -
The problem was that many older maps just didnt have ANY pallets. And really, the pallet spread is fine. Pallet count doesnt matter much if most pallets are unsafe pallets.
There are more pallets per map, but on average, the average strength of pallets on map has been reduced still. You only "need" to break like 7 pallets per game. That used to be 12. Pallet count used to be 14-16. With double pallet tiles, that count is close to 18-20. So despite total pallet count increasing by 6, the amount you need to kick has been nearly halved.1 -
Current pallet spread?
2 -
ill trade you pallets for the anti tunnel anti slug update pick one or the other.
-5 -
I'll take anti tunnel with adjustments for 600 Alex.
10 -
It kinda feels like survivors just expect better killers on average now.
I used to run a 1 slowdown whatever else build pretty frequently on most of my stealth killers, but that usually isn't enough to beat the increased general coordination of a lot of teams nowadays.
Could be a skill issue on my end, but I often find myself around 6 hooks at 1 gen if I just shut my mind off and play casually, enough to maybe snag a kill or two, but challenging enough to feel like the survivors walked in expecting harsher perks or a Dracula and got bored with me.
I usually gotta lock in for that 3k, unless it's one of those over in five seconds kinda matches. I wish DC's were less frequent. The amount of times I've seen three survivors almost escape but get screwed just because Meg couldn't handle playing on Death Hook at 3 gens and subbed out for a bot halfway into the match is infuriating.
Edit: Think I posted on the wrong thread. Pallet changes have exacerbated the problem I talk about a lot though. I agree that these changes should have been on select maps like Haddonfield instead of game wide.
Post edited by ArkInk on1 -
What the actual ######### did they do to Coal Tower. Literally EVERY SINGLE GYM (which are already connected) has another pallet tile right next to it. It's absurd.
Why can't they just go in and create a handful of custom made seeds for every map that they can tweak at will instead of doing these totally untested garbage "one size fits all" changes…
3 -
Dude every single map in this rotation has been affected by this change, it's so so bad, you cannot play lower tier killers anymore. I tried giving the benefit of the doubt but nah It's the same old sweat fest from survivors prepping for krasues which prepped for the pallet density change, while the humble trapper enjoyer gotta tank alladat. It actually made me quit, I'm not returning until this is fixed
2
![[Deleted User]](https://forums.bhvr.com/applications/dashboard/design/images/defaulticon.png)
