General Discussions
General Discussions
The Only Real Problem With MoM
Mettle of Man rewards survivors for failure and punishes killers for succeeding.
Mettle of Man has now become the literal "new pre 2.6.0 Decisive Strike".
Survivors have a variety of second chance perks that all have counters or act as just rewards, however MoM is not one of those perks.
Borrowed Time can be countered by not camping.
Decisive Strike can be countered by not tunnelling.
Exhaustion Perks can be countered by attacking by striking while the survivor is exhausted.
Even Adrenaline (which rewards survivors for surviving most of a trial) can be countered by the perk NOED or an Insta-down abilities.
MoM can only be countered by Chainsaws, Evil Within III, and (maybe) Devour Hope or NOED. Or you could just not hit survivors.
So forgive me and so many others if we express frustration towards this perk. It's just baffling why the devs would make a perk that rewards failure and punishes killers for hitting a survivor.
Comments
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If you are playing a killer without and ability that does damage to survivor you're gonna get your ass blasted by MoM. Doesn't make any sense to me to introduce a perk that only works against already weak killers that already barely have any map pressure.
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People complain without taking into account possible tools in the future. This was a planned perk, and we don't know the killer buffs coming in the future and perks. The meta is give on one side, then give on the other to spice things up if people haven't noticed. The plague can down survivors stupidly fast and make mettle of man barely notable in that case, same for some other killers. Meta shifts with perks as metas shift in every other game. The perk isn't as bad as dstrike and it's pretty fair. The only thing I'd say is make the obsession 3 hits to charge and non obsessions 4 hits to charge.
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Mom can be countered by
1)grabs
2) instadowns and exposed effects
3) secondary attacks (hatchets, puke, frenzy, chainsaw)
Instadowns, exposed, secondary attacks are heavily used in higher ranks anyway. And if you run plague you don't strike too much with basic attack for example, billy can prevent a 3 basic hit charge for some time, etc. Killers gotta learn, stop freakin out. I play killer myself and I've been doing fine with full swf teams with that perk on playing spirit.
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So you think they plan to rework half the Killer roster so they will have secondary attacks?
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First, MoM works on Corrupted Plague and Hatchets.
Secondly, grabs? Really? That's a stretch.
Lastly, only a few killers have instadowns and the likelyhood that every down is going to be done by those instadowns is just unrealistic unless it is a terrible survivor. You will almost always be getting 3 M1's in a game even on those killers. This also excludes the other 3/4 of killers without instadowns. Exposed effects are also highly limited and restricted. Not something that is reliable at all.
This is like me saying Instaheals are a counter for anything you think is too strong about killers. That would be a stupid argument.
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Just wanted to point out. Unlike old DS which simply removes some punishment for failure. Mettle of man actively rewards failure. This 8s because having MoM active let's to be in a state that is better than having not needed it in the first place. Or in otherwords if I have MoM then it is preferable to be hit than to not be hit since I can get a 3rd health state by being hit.
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MoM sets you in so much vunreable spot, that this is rediqulous! And just for one hit? Really?
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This perk is not that bad.... its fine and has a drawback
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Why the heck should we care about the POSSIBLE changes in the future rn??
I dont want a killer perk broken as MoM ,I want MoM to be reworked entirely.
Enough with this "just wait" bs
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Imagine a new killer perk, that after a hook and 3 hits the aura of the killer will be revealed to that survivor, he becomes the obsession and has exposed.
It would remove one hit, where MoM add one and reveal the aura after the third hit, not after the instadown, so it's even weaker and more fair then MoM. Right?
Who would love to face such a perk?
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There's also problem with SWF
Like how am i suppose to win when everyone is using Mettle of Man without chainsaw and NOED?
This is another pre 2.6.0 DS all over again
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Yeah, it needs balance changes. I will just keep playing Legion ;-)
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I mean Noed actually fits the same description - it rewards the killers for failure most of the time
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But unlike Mettle Of Man can be prevented by cleansing all Totems.
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ALSO NOED only trigger when all gens are complete
Mettle of Man can trigger "Always" as long you get hit 3 times
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It is still a bad perk though that needs to be changed. Just adding it cause it is important not cause in defense of MoM
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Which drawback? Aura reading? Ever noticed that the best players are using OoO? They wouldn't care about that drawback.
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@PolarBear Too many killer positive changes lately, the developers needed to counter-act that with an almost pay-2-win tier perk against the majority of all the current killers in the game..
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Nope, and the tend to be lower tier for the ranks anyway so rip them.
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Missing the point. Secondary attacks prevents it from charging quick. One hit from a secondary and one M1 makes it so it never comes into play if you down them in those chases because it will have 3 stacks when they are already down for death hook. Hitting twice with secondary makes no mettle of man charges and gives you downs. Not all killers have secondary attacks or exposed like meyers/clown but they tend to be lower tier anyway. Rip them. The way they are pushing the ranking, higher tier killers eat mettle of man players up by not letting it proc often anyway.
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@Haku Here's the difference between NOED and MoM. NOED has several ways to counter the perk across all survivors and builds. You can break all of the totems, leave asap at the end of a match, or you can be sneaky and hunt the totem at the end game. You can do any of these things at any time on any survivor so it's a reasonable perk.
MoM is different than NOED because not everyone can counter it. A good portion of the killer roster lacks the power to down survivors without using a basic attack or two. So killers like Hag and Wraith will be helpless against a full team of MoM users. Meanwhile Shapes, chainsaw folks, and a few others will be fine. This is why MoM is currently unbalanced. MoM forces you to play certain killers.
NOED's counters can be used with a meme build or a serious build or a META build. However you can't do jack squat against MoM unless you are playing a handful of specific killers which is just bad design.
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"if you down them in those chases"
That is the key part here though. There are enough "safe" spots that you have give up and break chase to not lose all your pressure that this is unreliable. Yeah you'll have times it doesn't activate because of this, but I think those are much less likely to happen than you're presenting. This is also assuming it's even one of the killers that has a secondary downing option which in itself limits that chance tremendously.
"The way they are pushing the ranking, higher tier killers eat mettle of man players up by not letting it proc often anyway."
This is part of the problem in that it's just forcing us to play those few top tier killers even more than we already were and like you said, this is even more punishing to the low tier killers that were already low to begin with.
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The issue I see is...
Devs know MOM is going to be the next hot button perk like DS was.
Devs don't test it properly, knowing they should make sure it actually works properly....
We get a new bugged perk once again.
So those that spent money on Ash to get the perk, you got sold a lemon. Cause now what is happening is the Devs are sitting back and evaluating the feedback... So the perk might be changed right off the start.
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Sure, the perk might be change after 2 years
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MoM is nothing compared to pre-2.6 DS.
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But it gives you aura reading until that survivor is downed/hooked so it’s a risk/reward perk so you have to build it up before it can be used and it only works once per match. I honestly don’t see a problem with this perk.
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I haven't played as killer yet against it, but has anyone gotten any use out of the aura reading aspect of this perk? I can see the person using it not healing up and maybe waiting for adrenaline to kick in and run the killer around while someone else opens the door.
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Legion introduced a No-Heal meta. Survivors just power through gens and then have Adrenaline heal them back up. Who cares about Aura-reading when it's too late already.
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And Noed, mori's, instadowns and rancor rewards killers for failure. So whats your point?? killers should have op ######### and survs not?
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@Mr_Digi NOED has several counters that all survivors can use. Memento Moris require that the killer already hooked a survivor (excluding Cypress Memento Moris) not to mention that they aren't cheap, so you won't see them every single game. Insta-down abilities are often locked behind a charge time or an expensive price and all have counters. Rancour isn't a perk designed to be a crutch to recover from failing, it's a strategic perk that let's you ignore one survivor for most of the game so you can better handle the other 3 survivors.
The difference between the killer's "Op "crap" is that the killer's stuff all has counters regardless of what survivor you're playing as and what perks you are using.
Mettle of Man is Op because unless you are using what you called "Op crap" there is no counter and it punishes killers for winning chases.
If you removed all if the "OP crap" from the equation the only "counter" to MoM is to not hit survivors, or just don't play killer. Both of which are asinine suggestions.
Post edited by Peasant on0 -
My biggest problem with MoM is, assuming the survivor doesn't also have decisive strike, I find it encourages tunneling off the hook. Hit someone twice to down them, hook, they get unhooked and you smack em again before they can heal, that way you're getting 2 hook states out of the way before they can get MoM. Obviously not the best course of action but hard campers and tunnelers rarely take the best course anyway
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Mori requires the Killer to catch, hook, and then catch a Survivor again. Where is the failure? @Mr_Digi
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MoM works great against the two strongest Killers: Nurse and Spirit.
MoM needs to go. PERIOD!!!!
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Also Mori are offer and can be waste if fail
unlike MoM (which is perk) can be use it forever
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