https://dbd.game/4rHHkF5
15 Second Basekit BT is here to stay, but why should it be allowed to benefit beyond tunneling?
Why are you allowing survivors to take advantage beyond tunneling? If a survivor blatantly unhooks right in front of the killer, why can the unhooked survivor bodyblock? Basekit Borrowed Time should ONLY benefit the affected survivor. The other survivor should be fair game, and all other effects should be shutoff for the BT survivor, including body blocking.
It's bad enough that they can't use existing methods to survivor (looping, zillions of windows and pallets, gen rushing), do killers need to be handicapped further?
Basekit BT should be viewed in the prism of what it is - an anti-tunneling, anti-camping effect. All other survivors should not benefit from this, starting with bodyblocking.
Comments
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killer is insanely easy as is. Literally get gift wrapped 1k at end game if you can get a knock.
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Cornball thinks the game is killer sided
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Best would be to remove basekit borrowed time at all. It pushes farms and braindead saves and unhooked survivors blocked your way for the duration and then they are suprised that they got tunneled. There are also quite a few killers ignoring borrowed time, so… Removing it entirely and instead pushing survivors for more skillfull gameplay would be more interesting.
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Welcome back to prehistoric versions of DBD. Where camping was the easiest and 100% uncounterable strategy. Where borrow time was mandatory for every survivor and if anyone did not bring it, he was trolling. Where killers had to get 1 chase for 3K guaranteed should survivors not take the mandatory perk - by just staying in a single spot not really playing the game.
Basekit BT is a direct response of abuse. Similar to say nerf to the ground of boil over (compared to busted version we had where hooking was impossible in number of maps)
But sure. If those were the good times, then let's bring other busted things from those same times. Now DS has just 2 condition to activate - killer picking survivor up and survivor hitting skillcheck. If he hits it, killer gets stunned for 5s. No hook condition, no repeat condition. Fair right? Like no basekit BT times…
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The issue is that unfortunately trying to remove body blocking causes more problems that it's worth.
- Removing no clip between Survivor and Killer actually makes it easier to body block cause you can sit in the killers model, and the killer cannot not hit you.
- Tying it to protection hits allows killers to subvert it by hitting the unhooker as they go for the unhook, and then hit the unhooked Survivor while the injured Survivor is within 16m to bypass their BT.
- Chase mechanics have similar issues where they can be bypassed by simply entering chase with the other survivor after they unhook to down.
Its actually quite hard to get rid of the body blocking problem without doing something crazy...
E.g. make Survivors off hook ethereal or something and make it physically impossible to hit or interact with them for the duration of BT.... which means there is genuinely no way to stop them when running to gate...
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The reason we got basekit BT in the first place is because prior to 6.1 despite it being an altruistic perk, many people still brought it, suggesting a strong need for it. (This is also why I think people wanting every other perk to be basekit is a bad idea)
Did you play survivor before 6.1? I don't think you realise how bad, uninteractive and unskillful gameplay could be if your unhooker didn't bring BT and farmed you. Like Gandor points out, the killer could insta down you off hook with zero counter. The only true prevention to this was DS, so if you want everyone to start bringing 5 second DS go ahead. :)
Basekit BT doesn't even encourage insta farming survivors off hook because if your death hook teammate just got hooked, you should leave them there where they cannot be tunneled. I just had a game where someone unhooked my tunnel target and they died a whole minute earlier than they should have because of it.
They recently nerfed two of the biggest BT ignorers (Soma Singularity and OG Pain Pinhead) but imo survivors should just be 100% ethereal to killer powers for maybe 1 or 2 seconds off hook so you can't do stuff like Dracula Hellfire and Artist Severed Hands.
In general though, 15 second BT is probably too long but if it has to stay Deliverance needs to be gutted because that's a brainless perk that encourages farming teammates and tunnelling the unhooked survivor.
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tell me your trash at first person games with out telling me. Couldn’t handle a regular fps so you had to switch to dbd💩
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😭Come 1v1 then how bout that?
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That literally doesn’t prove anything in the context of killer is easier than survivor? 😂 you’re nice at fp games but suck at dbd? Is that what you’re getting at? You be be getting 1-2ks every game😂😂
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"Genius" thinks the game is survivor sided. How can they make it any easier for you now lol
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It will just be you running pallet to pallet with Windows of Noobritunity telling everyone "Ahm Goood"
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You wrote a lot here and not sure you answered my question. Im not complaining about Basekit BT. Im complaining about 1) Length of it and 2) having other negative side effects to the game such as bodyblocking. It should be there for tunneling and camping, thats it. Why would you be allowed to just unhook right in front of someone and think that's acceptable as yet another perk. It should block you from hitting the person coming off hook. Thats it. Everything else is just yet another handicap to make bad players never get better.
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But they turn off bodyblocking all the time when the killer strikes. I don't get your argument here - I think its too complex to explain something that should be simple and fair.
- You got Basekit BT
- You got an additional 5 seconds
- You got an unhook yourself counter
Now you think it's ok to also get a bodyblock? When is enough enough?
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Camping is completely counterable. Its called doing gens. You do gens while the killer stupidly sticks around where nothing is happening. 3k is a win.
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You're only moderate at the game because they've handicapped the killer so badly. 2 years ago you'd have been rage quitting and slamming your keyboard on stream at your skill issues 🤣
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OK I see why you say this and in general its kinda annoying that use their unhook protection to take hits for their Survivor friends. I am in full agreement on that point, but how would you fix this problem?
The only way I see it would be to make the Server make survivors who take unhook protection hits to go down instead.
and it would need some needlessly complicated 5 second grace period to separate the Survivors after hook otherwise tunneling and camping is getting strengthen. This would also make endgame collapse saves way harder as if everyone is running the same way, its possible the server detects a protection hit and the unhooked goes down.In theory this could work, but idk about consequences.
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if this guy played before 2021 😭
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To be perfectly fair, over half of the game's life span at this point has either been totally fair to Killer or mostly in Killer's favor. It's not at all unrealistic to think the game is easy by comparison.
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thats current situation. Not the case proposed. If this thread gets ignored, you are right. If it doesn't, well. 2018 dbd is back… except survivors back then had also unfair things running for them (like much better bnp, shorter gen times, easier to 5-gen chase if you knew how, etc)
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They should honestly bring back losing collision, they could even make it so you only lose collision with the killer and not with other survivors to make it harder to intercept hits since you can't stand on top of the other survivor. It benefits literally everyone. People getting legitimately tunneled can't be blocked in order to burn their endurance timer and simultaneously you can't use it aggressively, it's the best of both worlds.
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Try me. i'm sending u my user in dms
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That, as well as the inability to interact with the unhooked survivor (i.e.. m1, power hits) that way they can't weaponize their endurance, but also won't get two tapped off hook.
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With the absymal year survivor had this year.
Bt being 15 secound is the only good thing they had this year in terms of combating the soloq bs.
Which, overall didnt do much since most killers easily can catch up and wait out bt.
the best part is, we DONT KNOW if bt being 15s will even stay, all the nerfs are solidfied because no one complained about them, i doubt it will stay once bhvr experimental phase with it is over.
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No collision and make haste be insanely fast but have a low duration. That way the survivor can get out but not abuse the haste to bodyblock
(I:E 0.4 x 15 = 6 meters overall gained with current bt)
(Make it 50% for 5 secounds, would be 10 meters)
(the reason why i want it to be 5 and not 3, is because of the animation taking time before you even get the haste to run with, so you can play around what fits best)
There, problem solved,
instead killers cant make up their mind if they want no collision or do want collision.
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I was mostly responding to Elan, not your original question sorry.
Answering you now: I think 15 seconds is too long (was probably consolation for cancelling anti-tunnel/slug) Like I said, perks like Deliverance should be gutted to balance how easy safe unhooks are now.
One option would be for survivors affected by BT to have no collision but that would mean the survivor could pretty easily force hits by standing right between the unhooker and killer.
I like that freshly unhooked survivors now have collision with their unhooker, because that removed a lot of the nonsense of the unhooked survivor taking hits with BT by slipping through the unhooker.
A second option would be BT making survivors completely ethereal to all damage - but that would remove the killer instantly hitting endurance to deny perks like DH/OTR/Second Wind.
Unless there's a genius solution, completely removing BT bodyblocking would just add its own frustrations. So you probably have to adjust elsewhere, like nerfing Deli.
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I was mostly responding to Elan, not your original question sorry.
Answering you now: I think 15 seconds is too long (was probably consolation for cancelling anti-tunnel/slug) Like I said, perks like Deliverance should be gutted to balance how easy safe unhooks are now.
One option would be for survivors affected by BT to have no collision but that would mean the survivor could pretty easily force hits by standing right between the unhooker and killer.
I like that freshly unhooked survivors now have collision with their unhooker, because that removed a lot of the nonsense of the unhooked survivor taking hits with BT by slipping through the unhooker.
A second option would be BT making survivors completely ethereal to all damage - but that would remove the killer instantly hitting endurance to deny perks like DH/OTR/Second Wind.
Unless there's a genius solution, completely removing BT bodyblocking would just add its own frustrations. So you probably have to adjust elsewhere, like nerfing Deli.
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I was mostly responding to Elan, not your original question sorry.
Answering you now: I think 15 seconds is too long (was probably consolation for cancelling anti-tunnel/slug) Like I said, perks like Deliverance should be gutted to balance how easy safe unhooks are now.
One option would be for survivors affected by BT to have no collision but that would mean the survivor could pretty easily force hits by standing right between the unhooker and killer.
I like that freshly unhooked survivors now have collision with their unhooker, because that removed a lot of the nonsense of the unhooked survivor taking hits with BT by slipping through the unhooker.
A second option would be BT making survivors completely ethereal to all damage - but that would remove the killer instantly hitting endurance to deny perks like DH/OTR/Second Wind.
Unless there's a genius solution, completely removing BT bodyblocking would just add its own frustrations. So you probably have to adjust elsewhere, like nerfing Deli.
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I was mostly responding to Elan, not your original question sorry.
Answering you now: I think 15 seconds is too long (was probably consolation for cancelling anti-tunnel/slug) Like I said, perks like Deliverance should be gutted to balance how easy safe unhooks are now.
One option would be for survivors affected by BT to have no collision but that would mean the survivor could pretty easily force hits by standing right between the unhooker and killer.
I like that freshly unhooked survivors now have collision with their unhooker, because that removed a lot of the nonsense of the unhooked survivor taking hits with BT by slipping through the unhooker.
A second option would be BT making survivors completely ethereal to all damage - but that would remove the killer instantly hitting endurance to deny perks like DH/OTR/Second Wind.
Unless there's a genius solution, completely removing BT bodyblocking would just add its own frustrations. So you probably have to adjust elsewhere, like nerfing Deli.
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15 seconds is a long time when a gen can be finished in ~70-80 seconds, plus all the extra time you get on the slow pickup, slow walking to the hook, and slow hooking. Its a big risk to tunnel someone but given how easy the game is for survivors now, it's a risk you have to take to even the odds.
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An idea I saw that wasnt too bad was a faster bt degrade the longer you stay near who unhooked you. So like with a grace period of like a second or 2 anyone within 6 meters of a ally has their protections degrade 3x as fast or something. At least helps with the survivor completly running behind their teammate. And with the grace period they can get enough away to keep the normal duration. I guess one scenario is if its solo and they happen to run the exact same way which is kinda unlucky but possible on some maps and stuff like basement. Nothings full proof really.
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As much as I want to agree, this would only make endgame and basement unhooks nearly impossible for the unhooked survivor to navigate. :\ I really didn't mind 10s BT, 15 feels like a lot (especially when it comes to endgame, 15s is enough to get to most gates if you aren't on the opposite corner of the map). I feel like if they increased haste for the unhooked survivor, it might encourage more players to leave the area with that speed instead of trying to body block. This leaves the question of what happens to the babysitter perk?
Idk I honestly kind of suspect that tunneling will always be an issue and there aren't a lot of ways to counter it at the moment. There are perks that I would love to see reworked to be more effective/worth bringing into the trial but I doubt it will ever happen because it is so complicated to account for the other survs and body blocking. There are a few perk changes that could be made that I believe would help this situation greatly, though:
- Change the conditions of decisive strike deactivating. 60s is honestly a pretty short loop and most people at a mid-range MMR can probably out-loop this timer. As it is, the survivor is either encouraged to bait a pickup (for example, by jumping in a locker) or they lose their perk. I think it would make more sense for the perk to be deactivated after one of the following circumstances: (1) an inconspicuous action is performed, (2) another survivor is hooked, or (3) the perk is used. Cons to this would be I just KNOW there are survivors that will stand around not doing anything until the killer comes for them/will bait chase and not heal teammates etc in order to get value out of their perk. As much as changing the conditions would make sense for the average user, there's always someone who will misuse the mechanic.
- Rework borrowed time. This perk became pretty useless when it became base kit. I'd love to see it be useful again, just maybe in a different manner. Maybe something like "When you unhook a survivor, you grant them protection. For 60s (this is a random time, would definitely need to be studied to see what works best) any damage given to the unhooked survivor will be inflicted upon you instead and you become broken for 30s (again with the timing idk what would work best)." Make this a one time "protection hit" situation instead of just giving the person extra time (which isn't really that helpful in most situations since the addition to base kit). They could add rules requiring that the rescuing survivor must be healthy during those 60s in order to steal the damage, etc etc…. There are a lot of ways they could rework this perk into something useful again. I suggested the broken condition to prevent people from unhooking then hiding in a corner with self care or something, but I'm sure there are other ways to prevent that. Maybe there is a cost, like your aura is revealed to the killer for 5s when you take damage for the other survivor or something.
- Buff babysitter. This perk is great for getting an unhooked survivor away quickly, but I would love to see some additional protections for the unhooked survivors. Reducing the volume of the unhooked survivor's cries for the duration of the perk's effects would be helpful. I think the aura reading that happens for the unhooker should also be given to the unhooked (so they don't just accidentally run straight into the killer off hook).
- Slightly buff for the people. This one sounds odd but hear me out. If survivors could instantly heal the unhooked survivor and take the damage themselves (instead of unhooking then using the perk, which requires an extra second for starting the healing action), it might encourage the killer to just get the easy down instead.
These are just a few suggestions that would give survivors some more room to work with the tunneling dynamic and counter it if they have the right perks equipped. I think there are a lot of perks that could be reworked or adjusted to help counter hard tunneling but these few seem the most obvious to me
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i did play back then vbut i find it hilarious when survivors pickrate of a perk starts spiking it gets made basekit but if killers pickrate start spiking it gets nerfed into the grounf or in the case of knockout delete and change it
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this isn't really true, look at decisive strike for example. they nerfed it a long time ago for this very reason lol. i'd say bhvr is just really inconsistent in their reasoning for changing things
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i remember wayyy back in the day when dribbling was a thing but the thing tyat no onr talks about when they tried to buff it to 5 seconds on the ptb and got rid of the enduring counterplay
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they've gone back and forth on the ds stun timing multiple times over the years lol
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I would still prefer removing basekit BT entirely and replacing it with surrounding the unhooked survivor in a shroud that makes them entirely invisible, silent, no blood pools, no scratch marks, they lose player collision, cannot be attacked, and they cannot interact with anything for 10 seconds. This gives them plenty of time to avoid the killer and have a fair reset. At the same time, it makes it impossible to weapnize against the killer. This, of course, would disable once all 5 gens are completed. Chalk it up to the Entity wanting the survivor to suffer for longer as opposed to getting hooked again immediately.
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