http://dbd.game/killswitch
Killer role feels awful to play as
I am a relatively new player and after playing survivor for 40 hours or so I tried playing killer on custom games against bots and with the shuffle against players.
Killer feels like you are forced to play a game by not the rules because ‘tunneling’ and ‘slugging’ is not wanted and seen detrimental to gameplay. Which is fine by me however game doesnt offer killers any other choice besides being considerably better at the game than the 4 other players.
And even if you are good you will still have to tunnel or slug because you will be interrupted AND revive survivor either because of broken hooks or blinds/stuns.
Expecting a Killer with SBMM to get 12 hooks equally is unrealistic. Especially considering this most likely means you have 4 people working on last gens and will have 3+healthy survivors ready for end game which is basically 3 escapes if you can get to injured player first.
From all of my games as killer I was always better off with less survivors. Less stuns, blinds, hook breaks, gen pressure. Unless survivors are worse than me then I can go for two hook each because chases dont take as long and I can hook freely.
What I mean is I am all for removing or changing slug or tunneling but from what I looked up developers only talk about how they going to punish killers for doing that and not how killers going to handle situations where there are no hooks or you are not in a safe spot to pick up. Not to mention end game pressure of 4 surviors.
Comments
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I find the game is best when you don't try to win at all costs.
This is why I advocate for Chaos Shuffle features to implemented into the base-game as using the best perks just bloats mmr.
And Im not into wanting to do an arms race with the Survivors.It seems tho slugging will continue to be part of the game for a while, because players will say, I need to tunnel, that they cant win without tunneling. Which I think is because their MMR is bloated and they wont let their guard down, if they take off all thier good perks and dont tunnel, then the game WILL make them face the same players until a proper reduction in MMR is justified.
I do submit my experience as Killer is much more manageable and fun when I dont try to go beyond.
Does that mean being competitive will drain the life and joy out of you? No, but I did for me and I changed my tune to still play.-7 -
DBD hasn't ever been new player friendly, and it does take many many trials to become competent, especially playing killer. So many powers, add-ons, perks, and strategies to learn that players who have hundreds maybe thousands of hours don't know everything.
Imo it takes over 400 hours to not suck at the game, and have an idea in most situations what the correct play is. It also takes time for everyone's MMR to settle as well. Now throw in the matchmaking perhaps letting you down, and it can often feel overwhelming and like you cannot control the trial as killer.
As for "tunneling" and "slugging" and the like, so long as you aren't violating actual game rules you play how you see fit. It's up to the devs to allow this or that, not really us.
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Thats what I am wondering as well. Tunnel and slugging may not be same as breaking other ToS like cheating but devs and player base dislike it and dont want to see it. But I couldn’t find a post where devs talk about how are they going to solve the core issue to why slugging/tunneling is a valid strategy instead of hooking survivors ‘successfully’ one by one
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As far as I know, they have no found a solution yet.
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Hang on, the 40-hour survivor main is going to school the rest of us on how killer should work
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Solution exists and is called ''Balancing''. When devs punish killer for ''tunneling'' and ''slugging'' they offer almost no alternative in return. It's obvious that getting 12 hooks on average is more time demanding task than repairing 5 gens and opening a door, as well the killer task can't be delegated to anyone else where survivor tasks can be either done by two ( one keeps killer busy, another repairs gens ) or more.
It's understandable that every player in the match wants to have fun and theoretically all can get a ''share'' of it, but when one side has to put more effort consistently than the other, it's no surprise someone will eventually get ''robbed'' of their pleasure, one way or another.
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If you dont think BHVR does balancing right, then maybe you should convince them what the right way are?
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Wait, tell me where I schooled people on how should killer work? I am literally asking how its going to work.
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Huh. If you're a new player, killer should be way better than survivor. There's an MMR system and the survivors in the low to mid MMR range are literally even worse than bots. I made a smurf account and I literally have 90%+ kill rate. It shows 87% kill rate, but that's because I abandon matches when everyone disconnects. If I stayed and killed all the bots, kill rate would be 95%. I pretty much never tunneled and slugged in these matches because the survivors were so bad that it was unnecessary.
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If youre a new player you should learn how to play killer characters properly and not how to circumvent core mechanics to get easy games against better players. Youre under so many false asumptions, its clear youre not a new player.
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What are the false assumptions? Also you are wrong, I am new player.
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Lot of my friends who played for years have dropped killer altogether an only play survivor now. Even some of my fav content creators have dropped killer an only play killer if people request it now by paying money so most of the time they just on survivor.
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Yup same pretty much, its easy and chill compared to killer and i care far less about the outcome because its not just me influencing the game. I dont even find it all that fun tbh so i barely play now as i got into the game to play killer.
Even TrueTalent is a survivor main now, which really says everything about the state of the game for killers lol
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also idk if it just me but i feel so much more free in the perk department then as killer. Oh look an actual perk that benefits me without having to go through multiple loops to get the effect? no way.
(reminder that killer still DO NOT have a base-game gen regression perk meanwhile survivors have deja-vu….)1 -
Yeah, killer perk variety is pretty garbage, are heavily activation dependant, usually rely on the killer winning a chase in the first place and actually advancing their objective, heavily dependant on which killer you are playing, and the good stuff kills itself and becomes unusable.
Unlike survivor perks where many are usable, especially in combinations even if more niche, are usually passively strong with little to no input, downsides or thought required and give massive value as well or just outright save them from their mistakes they should get punished for or are abused for advantages. (e.g sprint burst, lithe, vigil, second chance perks etc basically their common meta perks you see every game.)
The difference between the roles perk variety isnt even funny. And people wonder why they see the same killer perks over and over.
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Perhaps you havent found your most comfortable killer to play. Once u do, you won't feel as stressed about winning but just playing your favorite killer for the fun of the game. Since it is a very rng based game, you can never fully control how your experience will be or who you play against. But at the very least you can atleast try to enjoy your favorite playstyle.
And i don't mean to say the game is going to be all sunshine n rainbows once u find that comfortable playstyle, i just mean you can look at the game in a different way where if you really arent having fun as the killer in a certain round, there is no go next prevention for killer. You can just start going around kicking all the gens n pallets till its over so you can build up points on the milestone. Or You can just stop where u are, look straight up, and get up and go do something else for a bit , get a drink or some food or something and relax. By the time you get back round will either be over or close, and then u just ignore the chat and move on to your next round. Lots of people play in a way to get a rise out of you, best counter is to ignore them completely
Post edited by ShanoaLegendaryPlz on1 -
True.
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They refuse to listen to far more skilled people than me, what odds do I have here?
I can express my opinion at best, which is the introduction of Equalizer system that adjusts game pace based on how sides are performing and provide some form of aid if one side is clearly struggling. It can be adjusted gen repair speeds, better luck in item rarity from chests, slower on-hook timer for survivors and so on. There are plenty of options to work with.
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I think the argument is less that it isn't a viable strategy (because it is) and more about not holding another player hostage. It's extremely oppressive for the other player who has to just lay there and wait to bleed out. You're punished for DCing if you don't want to participate in that, even though it is incredibly boring.
It's a multiplayer game, it's supposed to be playable for everyone, not just one side. I understand why you want to tunnel/slug to win, but it simply isn't fair to the other side who doesn't have a way to counter that built into their base kit. This argument is especially strong for slugging, as there are some protections around hook (anticamp and basekit BT). Yes, the killer is still on the survivor and they will have to strategically run in their chase to avoid death, but they still have a chance to participate in normal gameplay (running from the killer). Unfortunately, if a survivor is slugged and the killer is camping them, there's pretty much nothing they can do unless they have a certain perk equipped or their entire team comes to help (which is extremely unlikely unless the survivor has a full SWF). Camping a slugged survivor takes away their ability to participate in normal gameplay or do anything at all. This is just problematic from a QOL point of view. All 5 players who queue into a match should be able to participate in normal gameplay activities, not just 1 killer, not just the 4 survivors.
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A Killer staying by a downed Survivor in such a manner is such a rare occurrence that it should not dictate what does and does not get changed.
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If it's "so rare" then it really shouldn't matter to you, as it won't affect your gameplay whatsoever.
I personally have seen it in around a third of the matches I have played in the last month. That doesn't really qualify as "rare" to me, but if it does for you that's awesome!
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If a killer is camping a survivor, then the camped survivor is still participating in the game by keeping killer occupied. Sure it's not as ''fun'' as making killer take a pallet in the face but it still serves the purpose - give space to the remaining survivor so they can repair gens.
It's a competitive game where one side must escape and another one kill, by all means physically possible. People should understand that there is no rule that forces anyone go ''easy'' or ''hard'' on other player, hence there is no point complaining that someone got less opportunity to play in the way they wanted than another.
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This isn't normal gameplay. Killers should not be rewarded for not hooking survivors. Answer this: why is the survivor in a worse position slugged than on hook? These two states should be equivalent (anticamp, endurance on unhook/pickup from anticamp).
As it is now, the game rewards killers for not finishing their objective (hooking the survivor) by not having a camp timer on the slugged survivor.
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Slugged survivor can not repair gens and requires help from other survivor ( excluding certain perks ) for complete recovery. Killer can tactically slug a survivor since it's a form of pressure that killer can apply on entire survivor team. Camping and tunneling are also form of oppression that killer can do, the difference is in potential efficiency of the action done.
There are cases where slugging is not wise too, but they are less often because they require more specific situations, perks and coordination between survivors.
Game does not reward killer for not hooking survivor. Hooking or slugging are choices that killer can make depending on the state of many other things in the game. Do not forget that slugged survivor can bleed out if left on the ground for too long. Survivor can be slugged more times than being hooked. Slugged survivor can recover up to 95% of the progress on their own where hooked survivor ( excluding few perks ) can't do anything on their own.
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That is objectively false, they just recently made a point of canceling the anti-tunnel changes and the arguments BHVR used against it on consideration was the exact same ones that high skill players had used in videos discussing the subject.
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Please keep the comments from getting personal. Report or move on, we'd like the thread to stay on topic. Thank you!
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To start, I just want to make it clear that I'm not trying to argue whether or not anti slug/tunnel should exist here. BHVR already thinks it should or else they wouldn't have tested these changes out twice in PTBs and would not have spent an entire year saying they were working on it. With this in mind, I'm not going to argue whether or not slugging is a viable strategy. I'm not saying you can't use it tactically, I'm saying it's bad for the health of the game (and the developers seem to agree).
I'm going to reiterate that there are 5 real people that queue into each match. Denying one person the ability to do anything but lay on the ground because "oh they're occupying the killer's time" or whatever someone may want to say is toxic at the end of the day. I really don't think it's a matter of "should we allow killers to do this?" and is more of a "how do we stop killers from doing this without giving the survivors other unexpected advantages?"
Slugged survivor can recover up to 95% of the progress on their own where hooked survivor ( excluding few perks ) can't do anything on their own.
A slugged survivor also can't do anything on their own unless they have a perk to finish picking themselves up so I'm not really sure what you're trying to get at with this.
Game does not reward killer for not hooking survivor
Is it not easier to camp a survivor when they are on the ground vs hooked in the current state of the game? That's the benefit of leaving them there. Requesting that the game does something to make these two states equivalent (i.e. adding an anticamp timer to slugs) is more than reasonable.
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It's because of overwhelming negative feedback that made devs put the mechanic to the shelf. Such thing usually happen when something very big is introduced but isn't objectively fair. Most of the time they just push things out and wait for people's reaction on large scale, rather than from small group or regular players.
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First of all DBD is a competitive multiplayer game where one side has a clear goal of eliminating members of another one. Simply speaking killer has to make sure survivors play as little as possible because there's no other way to ''make them'' not do their objective - repair gens. It so happens that getting rid of survivors as soon as possible ensures victory for killer, which also means less playtime for them. Slugging does prevent survivor from progressing the objective, so does hooking. Thing is if we talk about efficiency of actions and their contribution to the end goal then tunneling ( when successful ) is probably the most effective way for a killer to progress towards the goal, just like spreading around and doing gens is for survivors. Apparently neither side likes when the opponent one performs effectively since in both cases the side who's objective isn't done yet is more likely to lose the match and have less play time.
As for slugged survivor - slugged survivor can crawl towards their team mate or hide. Being slugged doesn't mean the game is over for them yet.
As for slugging vs hooking when camping - camping a slugged survivor takes way too much time to be even remotely effective. Almost nobody would do that since at best it can guarantee 1k and very low amount of BPs when it's better to hook survivor ( when possible ) and scout around or do proxy - camping if there's a triangle of gens left. It's extremely unlikely for a survivor to be camped or slugged so aggressively in every match but if that is an issue, there are perks that allow survivor play around and make game for such killer much harder.
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So you want just a select group to be listend too??
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Killers that need nerfs: Ghoul, Bligh and Nurse
Killers that are balanced: Oni, Vecna 2, Dracula, Twins, Billy, Singularity
Killers that need huge buffs: Every other killer not mentioned above
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I would like every opinion be considered so long as it remains reasonable enough.
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reasonable to you or reasonable to BHVR?
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To common sense, provided we can all share one.
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A common sense we all share do not exist.
what we can share is the applications of reason and logic cause they have clear rules. Common sense do not.1 -
If basic common sense is not shared, then entire discussion is meaningless. People can go and stroke their ego elsewhere.
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The objective is to make everybody die.
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No, we sill have a shared language and discussion will happen despite people's egos.
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Two people pushing two different ideas without providing any point or debate ground is no longer a discussion.
As for topic itself - I found myself less motivated to play as killer due to how often I'm bound to certain perks and playstyle. Current game pace balance makes my games feel more like a chore if I wish to have any chance for a ''fair'' match. In comparison to my survivor games ( I'm still an average survivor player ), I feel less stress or tension even if killer decides to tunnel or camp me out of the game. In fact, I don't even feel upset when this happens because I realize it's either a killer being annoyed by their previous match or they are down to 2 or 1 gen and all of us are still in the game. Not to mention but as survivor, I can equip low synergy perks and still have fun where as a killer I need to have perks like Deadlock or I'll end up losing 2 or more gens before the first hook. Talk about the freedom of the choice.
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I play for the fun of all players involved. That sometimes means playing less efficient, or playing along with silly situations. The problem is that it can lead to survivor escapes that would not happen otherwise. I have noticed after playing this way for a while, im starting to get survivors who frankly are no good at the game. To get any kind of opponent that can hold their own, I am going to have to absolutely stomp on some lower experienced players to get me out of the "friendly-ish" killer mmr range. That just makes for a terrible experience for the survivors, and a bad experience for me. DBD just heavily discourages playing nice. Before, I was getting 4 man p100 squads on the regular. Now im starting to see sub p10 players often that are really bad at looping.
I wish they would abandon the concept that kills means wins and instead balance around hook states. If the killer gets 8 hooks, it should be considered a killer win without the requirement to fully eliminate anyone. You CAN go for player elimination which is a minimum of 2 kills and 2 hook states, but if you want to spread hooks out evenly, you can still win just by 2 hooking everyone. It would be nice to have the option. Besides, everyone gets their own unique win condition at the moment. One side getting a win doesn't necessarily mean the other HAS to lose. Granted, this means a far more casual approach to the game, but BHVR has been preaching for years they view the game as a casual party game and not a competitive one.
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If you're struggling with the killer role, I hope you don't mind but I think I can give some quick tips. You might already know some of the things I'm going to discuss here, but it's best not to assume and try to cover all bases in my opinion!
So, I'll start by saying that the two unwanted strategies you talk about aren't on equal footing. Tunnelling is just a balance problem, yes, but slugging is - with notable exceptions - also a normal and healthy part of the game. This is most relevant when talking about survivors breaking hooks, because the answer to that is to quickly scan to see if there's another hook in range and, if not, drop that survivor on the ground.
Slugging that survivor in that scenario so you can chase the person who broke the hook is completely normal and even expected, anyone who sabotages hooks broadly expects the killer to try and drop the survivor they're carrying if they can. Sabotage can definitely be frustrating to play against at times, but just be patient- they'll either run out of toolbox charges or make a mistake and not get to the right hook in time eventually, and as long as you try and leave the survivor you're carrying on the ground, you're slowing the game down enough that you've got time to wait it out.Next I'll broadly touch on blinds- flashlights aren't as imposing as they appear at first, I assure you. A survivor who wants to blind you can't do it from anywhere on screen, they need to be in front of you with the right angle to shine the beam on your killer's eyes.
This means the most effective way of beating flashlight saves is to pick up facing a wall, so they can't get in front of you. However, if there isn't a wall available and you know what direction the flashlight survivor is coming from, just face the opposite direction- they usually don't have enough time to get around you for the blind if you do. If they start the blind late, look up once you gain control of your camera, that beats it too!If all else fails, there's always slugging. This + trying to beat pallet saves are more scenarios where slugging is completely acceptable. If you're worried about when slugging is fairly considered unacceptable, it's mostly downing everyone before picking everyone up, or trying to force survivors to die via bleedout while they're on the ground.
People might get mad at you for other things, but it's an online video game, that's inevitable. Can't please everyone.Finally, I'd like to touch on 12-hooking. This is a piece of rhetoric it's really easy to pick up, but it's not actually all that useful or helpful in this context.
The alternative to tunnelling isn't only and exclusively 12 spread out hooks on a perfect rotation. It only involves not chasing the person who was just unhooked; if you're in the area for the unhook, chase the unhooker, but you should really try not to be in the area for the unhook and be chasing a third survivor instead because that damages the team's generator efficiency more.I'll make this as brief as I can, but the basics of "pressure" for the killer role in DBD is the following idea: Every second you spend not engaging a survivor is four seconds of potential generator repair, so try and keep survivors engaged. The easiest + most broadly applicable version of this across all killers is to have one survivor on the hook, one survivor in chase, and a third survivor peeling off to go save the one on the hook, leaving only one survivor able to do generators. There are more high-level versions of this (and versions that are just more specific to specific killers), but that's the basics.
To help facilitate this, I heavily recommend using information perks so you know exactly where to go after a hook, they're very very useful.
Happy to clarify on anything I might have not conveyed well, too!
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