Suggestions of Changes to the new killer "The First"

Please, let's not have a repeat of the Fog Vials, and let's wait a few weeks to a month for people to adjust to the counterplay (and for content creators to make tutorials) before sending something to the Shadow Realm within days because it's not obvious and easy to play around something.

I feel like the attack needs to appear sooner for the Survivors pov just as it does for the killer because everytime I've gone against vecna/Henry, the attack only has a split millisecond to react which is WAY too fast, if they do this, I guarantee that this killer would be less frustrating and "op" as it seems right now, and I'm speaking from experience from going against and playing as, and I definitely see the difference in m2 visibility from both sides

I remember when Vecna released and everybody was so sure he was massively overpowered. I even nearly got a 50 win streak on release like Hens333 just did on The First yesterday.

People are going to get better at facing The First.

Well, after a lot of games against and as The First, I'd say that as far as counterplay goes, mindgame is the name of the game.

If he manages to center a vine attack perfectly on the Survivor, they'll get hit unless they have some method of Haste (holding Sprint Burst saved me a couple times). However perfectly aiming it is easier said than done and it's usually much more reliable to "place" your attack where you think the Survivor will be.

There lies the Survivor's counterplay. Not unlike most ranged Killers or Pyramid Head & Nurse, keeping an eye on them can tell you where they want to cut you off (more often than not during animation locks, so feints next to pallets and vaults are good bets).

While The First has a longer range and verticality options unlike PH, if the Survivor is good at predicting his vine attacks and moves erraticaly enough... he's done for because he is 4.4 (and a vine attack basically locks him in place for a second, long enough to continue the chase without the Killer gaining much ground) and as such if he can't get hits with his power he can't fall back on normal M1 chases to see him through.

The Undergate attack... if the Survivors don't stay there, it's ridiculously easy to evade if nothing slows them down. It takes so long to gain control back that even if the Survivor dodges the actual attack by a hair, the Survivor still has good distance, especially since the Killer is 4.4 and the mobility option has a massive cooldown.

One of my first pub matches vs The First (they were going for Adept on day 1) was a complete stomp because we kept predicting (and sometimes guessing) correctly and it took 2 gens for him to trigger Worldbreaker for the first time.

Funnily enough, I've rarely seen close games with The First, it is almost always a stomp on either side. But it makes sense due to how slow his start can be if he goes against good Survivors that can read him well.

I do agree that the clocks are a bit useless and should be more of a factor in some way (maybe increase the time reduction if more than one Survivor are using clocks at once, more time off gens in return for less Wordlbreaker time) but I honestly don't see how we could nerf his vine attack in any meaningful way without sending the Killer in the Shadow Realm in the process.

Everyone who thinks that this killer is A tier or higher shouldn't truly comment on any killer-related topics. Complaining about B tier killers when Ghoul, Blight and Nurse exist.

The bigger difference, is that Vecna basically has no cooldown on his attack. So while Nurse can readjust, she needs to charge first and then she gets fatique and has to wait to get 2 charges. In the same amount of time, Vecna can use his attack 6 times.

And while its true that a good Nurse can basically guarantee a hit, so can a good Vecna. If you are in the center of a vine attack, there is no dodging it.

And Vecna must be bugged then with his movementspeed, because I had Vecna's still gaining distance on me while charging their Vine Attack, and while playing around, I also didnt lose any distance. Which could have been fixed with the latest hotfix, I wouldnt know as I dont play DBD as commonly anymore, since they still didnt punish tunnelling at 5 gens or long term slugging despite that being promised almost 2 years ago.

And his mobility is like them, because he moves much faster. It's different in the sense that Vecna can guarantee a hit with his ability by being under someone, and its very easy to get under someone when you can see them. It's also different in that Vecna does not have a lullaby or terror radius, unlike Dracula and Spirit.

So if they fixed his movementspeed after the hotfix, sure, he would have a bit more counterplay (which, still mainly is shift+w btw, which was pretty much the biggest point at the end of the comment, shift+w is boring counterplay). But then there is still the issue that survivors cannot see where Vecna is aiming, and the issue that the clock mechanic doesnt exactly do much (2 people dont really speed it up, could also have been bugged, but I timed it. While 1 survivor should reduce the 4 minute timer to 27-ish seconds, 2 survivors should drop it to 20 seconds, but I got 26 seconds. So even if they fixed it, it is still terrible design, because he gets another guaranteed minute afterwards and can restart it within 3-5 seconds afterwards).

All in all, he needs a fix. And imo, just surrounding the clock:
1. Phase 2 should take as long as phase 1.
2. 1 survivor listening speeds it up from 1 minute per survivor to 40 seconds per survivor, 2 speed it up to 20 seconds per survivor, 3 speeds it up to 10 seconds per survivor and 4 gets it to 5 seconds per survivor (which is gonna be rare since 1 is always getting chased).
3. listening to the clock reduces your tokens by 1 for listening in and by 2 if you help finish the interaction.
4. Getting hooked reduces your tokens by 2, but makes 1 permanent token.
5. Vecna can damage you even outside the clock timer if he gets you to 4 charges.
6. The clock timer will start every 2 minutes, each vine attack that connects reduces it by 60 seconds per survivor hit.
7. Getting unhooked gives you a 1 minute immunity to token gain.
8. Hooking a survivor with 4 tokens will start/reset the clock and double the time for phase 1.

That should create a better back and forth between survivors, gives Vecna more lethality if he happens to miss the wrong survivor. The current clock mechanic just feels useless due to how easy it is to trigger and gives a guaranteed minute. Just the ability to reduce phase 2 by interacting with the clocks makes it not a guaranteed minute, but being able to trigger it with any 2 vine hits also means you can spread out.

Nope, not true, they dont have enough speed to get out. They need 5% haste to do so.

The mechanical delay is 0.6 seconds after you locked the attack in, but the visual delay and potential desync isnt. If you visually see you're in the center, you cant dodge. Same is true for the underworld attack, you have to shift+W the moment you see him come towards you, otherwise you dont get out. And that's assuming you have a straight path.

He needs a lullaby for his underworld mode, like Spirit, but like 8 meters distance at best (just to compensate for closed corners), and his vine needs to be more visual from the start.

Other than that, by far my biggest complaint is the clock mechanic. If it worked a bit more like Freddy, where you're immune/resistant to it for some time if you helped remove it, it would already be so much better. Right now, it doesnt really matter if you do it or not. You need to be a good SWF to use it properly, but a good swf with comms should not be standard.