https://dbd.game/4rHHkF5
New Map: Trickster's Delusion Feedback
Please leave feedback for 9.5.0's new map, Trickster's Delusion, here. Thank you!
Comments
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All I want to know is if you removed that godloop window that you guys placed in the building next to shack.
EDIT: Update…
Its over guys, we are cooked!
Post edited by Emeal on10 -
It's Trickster's map but it's terrible for Trickster.
I… really don't think I have to say more than that. Again, as a Trickster main, this chapter was a mockery.
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The map is beautiful and most of the loops are okay, but it's absolutely huge. I understand the playable area isn't that big, but the distance between one corner of the map and the other is significant.
Navigating this map as Survivor feels like it heavily incentivises running Exhaustion perks like Sprint Burst to cut down on travel time. As a Killer, if you don't have a map traversal ability you can spend a painfully long time patrolling between gens. It's very reminiscent of original RPD to me. Broadly a good map, but just too big for easy navigation.
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First impressions for launch.
Visually? Really cool looking.
Did I have fun? Absolutely not. To be completely fair I played one match of the release version, but it's basically the exact same as the PTB from what I see. Something I think a handful of people complained about.
Trickster also feels like a slug, so I can't really M1 survivors which would be fine, it's good to push the killer to use their ability, but also tricksters ability is not good enough to warrant being a literal snail. Not to say it's bad, but the reason a killer like huntress is 4,4 is because she has a ranged attack that instantly injures a survivor if hit, trickster doesn't have that.
IDK felt like saying it. I hope that either there is actually a way to get really good at this version of trickster and actually be able to play on his map as him or that BHVR does something.1 -
It is the new RPD but worse. Press "W + Shift" and you win as survivor. Hardly any options to shortcut someone, too many god pallets. Visually nice, but the lights are too dazzling.
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Great visual map, but its horrible for majority of killers, especially trickster 🤣
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👎️ No second floor or elevated platform? Why!!? They had a perfect opportunity to make a vault down to the dance floor but everything is closed off. Now my favorite perk - Balanced Landing - is completely useless in one of the very few maps without any elevation. I actually like the design of the map if only they had just put in a drop somewhere. Ridiculous!
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I never had fun on this map even in the PTB. I wanna love this map so much but I just can't love it at all due to how it is terribly balanced.
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This maps is way too Survivor sided, prerunning is extremely powerful, it has multiple god pallets, tons of really good windows, and loops chain into one another really strong.
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feels like there wasn't much thought into the actual game design of the map that was put into the videogame
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Thanks for the early feedback, folks! Keep it coming!
Would love to dig into the specifics here. What about it feels imbalanced to you?
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Map is super good at confusing the Killer, most of the time you are looking at scratch marks trying to follow the survivor.
Its kind of funny this map is the Trickster's home base because the map is awful for him.But I actually thinks it breaks one of the core pillars of Dead by Daylight that the killer needs a chance to predict what the survivor will do. But you CANT on this map, cause its shop after shop after shop… and you dont know which has a pallet or window or not.
Am I supposed to remember where everything is? and which shop has a pallet? a pallet which I may add I cant see.
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This map is gorgeous but way too big.
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So uuh. Let me get into this.
I haven't looked at this SUPER in DETAIL, nor have I played the map THAT much so apologies for that and apologies if something here is just a skill issue lol. Also this is the view of a KILLER main so I will only mention how it felt playing killer, cuz I don't really play survivor ever. Also one last thing, I have no clue how easily these will be to fix, if even possibly at all without remaking the map.
Basically, there are a lot of palettes scattered here and there that more than half of the time forces you to break them with very little room to actually play around. Making the map HEAVILY survivor sided.
The buildings are very disorienting and confusing.
Sometimes, possibly A LOT of the time, a building will lead directly to a pretty decent palette meaning if a survivor is working on a gen inside a building, all they have to do when they hear your terror getting close is run to this palette and if you aren't there, just keep running since there will most likely be another palette close by.
It's pretty bad for ranged killers, a lot of complete LOS blockers that you can really play around, like at all, making it so these ranged killers RARELY get a moment where they can actually use their ranged ability, especially on a character like trickster.To add onto trickster being pretty bad for this map, gens are placed too far apart, maybe not in measurement but in gameplay it takes forever to get from one gen to another, due to either having to go through weird buildings and going completely around them and etc. This makes the map pretty awful for low mobility killers such as trickster, as they have to slowly navigate through the map to get to a gen that is just about to pop.
Anyways that's all I can think of, I am not good at explaining so apologies again, someone might be better at it lol.
Vile out.0 -
This map is very hard to navigate as a survivior.
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We've been letting you know. God pallets, no cut off routes, incredibly powerful windows. It's hell for m1 killers with no mobility.
That being said, the art team knocked it out of the park!
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step 1: equip WoO or that new survivors perk forgot the name of it
Step 2: profit-1 -
Great map, but some pallets are beyond useless. I have more success just holding w than playing any pallet.
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Honestly, it needs something like metro stations for quick travel IMO.
If it would be cooler/more balanced:
Only 1 metro cart, once 1 survivor is on it, 3 seconds before the door closes(so 4 survivors could go in) and goes to the next station at which point it breaks down and needs repairs, metro moving at 2000% movementspeed
Killers can enter any point in front or behind the metro cart and move to the next station at 3000% movementspeed (so they would arrive before the metrocart does in case survivors try to use it as a way to escape)-1 -
Even then, there are way too many really good palettes so having some bad ones sprinkled in there is incredibly fair.
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Thanks for taking the time to articulate all of this! There's a lot here I can pass on to the team as-is (i.e. feelings about pallets, LOS blockers impacting ranged play), but I would love to pose a secondary question. You mention the buildings feeling disorienting and confusing. Do you think this (and the evolution of Killer strategy on this map) is something that will ease up for you over time as you get more time with the map?
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@ThatRyanB can you tell us something about this? This window is basically an infinite loop and basically every killer just struggles against it. We've told you during the PTB that this window is an issue, so why did you not changed it?
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One thing I can say which is new for maps, this new map loads beautifully and easily on my potato pc. GOOD JOB BHVR.
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I'm betting on data inconclusive and they didn't see a huge spike in wins. But just wait until people find out.
I mean has BHVR EVER changed a loop unless it shows extreme imbalance? Just us claiming imbalance isn't enough.
They also need to be able to see it.1 -
True. It also took them a while to remove the strong window from the Forgotton Ruin map despite PTB feedback and even longer to remove the godwindows from Mother's Dwelling and Father Campbell's Chapel map but even now we still have godwindows like the one on Shelter Woods.
It's just sad to see that the devs still don't learn their lession that they should not implement these windows because they are just problematic.
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as far as I know, this is the only map without a spot to drop down which completely nullifies balanced landing and creates a useless perk slot which senselessly punishes a survivor and pushes them to not ever want to play a round on this map. Map went from 9/10 to 2/10 after discovering there was no drop down onto the dance floor.
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- Gen Spread usually leads to 3 Gens often
- Low amount of Windows of both Useless and "Why Is This Crime Against Nature Even Here?" qualities
- Inconceivable amount of Pallets of both Terrible and God qualities
- Main layout never changes
- Massive Areas you can't cross due to either giant walls or inaccessible buildings
- Massive Blindspots where Lockers just don't exist
- I can see across the map with ease
- Killer strategy is to ignore most of the Generators and focus on the cluster in the center
I guess before Haddonfield left, it had a child with Hawkins and it took all of the bad genes. Visually, it's a masterpiece, it just does not play well or fun in any aspect!
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Guys, you need to move the generators near the shack further apart on the new map, because I’m already getting killed by Skull Merchant when I’m camping at 3gen—the generators are too close together, and I can’t use “pre-leave” because of the walls.
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Please reduce (or ideally remove) all the flickering lights on the streets.
They look immersive at first but doing a gen while bathed in epilepsy-vision is just pure pain.
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trickster is terrible on his own map it probably needs to be cut in half
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The biggest problem I'm having with this map are the Windows in the stores they are way to strong and need to be removed.
There's to many available doorways to cutoff LOS and the size of the map feels awful and
huge to traverse as a 110 killer like Trickster
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Visually the map is beautiful.
Gameplay wise if you are an M1 Killer or if you are a 110 MS killer you are going to have a bad time. Its so easy to lose line of sight. With five moves ahead or Windows it makes survivor an easy win, unless your team fumbles.
Not to mention how strong holding forward is. You can get hit at a god pallet, save the pallet and hold forward and odds are youre at a god pallet or a strong window.
I genuinelly don't think killer power or fun was considered in making this map
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Like others have pointed out, it's not very fun map to play as a killer. I think a new mechanic, where you can destroy vault locations permanently as a killer, would be nice. Similar to pallets and doors, certain vault locations could be destroyed by killer. This mechanic could be added to other maps as well.
Visually it's a nice map, but I think it's a bit too big, and it's survivor sided.
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I did after 2 games.
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Honestly I imagine that I could get better at not getting lost in the map. But that's really all I can say confidentially for now.
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This map gives me RPD vibes, absolutely horrific gameplay design
- God windows
- Too much corners
- Too big
-3 -
Large map with extremely strong loops and pallets. It's the next Badham.
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pros:
- map is beautiful,
- map is different to what we've had before
cons:
- map too big, please cut in half, and make 2 different maps (one has the market, the other has the club)
- spaces are too tight/narrow, makes it difficult to use killer powers and go around the map, make spaces wider, make streets wider
- shack is strange/harder? to play, walls are too solid, create some transparency or holes somewhere across the walls so it feels better to play
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The map only feels big because of how it's designed, however it's actually one of the more smaller maps in the game, as it falls within the same range size as Dead Dawg.
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So this map has no elevations for balanced landing or all shaking thunder, which I'm not saying there should be upstairs or anything, but some small stales or scaffolding, or being able to go on cars with a ramp would be really nice for said perks.
Otherwise there is no way to trigger them, and that can feel pretty bad when you know there is a chance of getting this map.5 -
This loop is SOO OP especially when its this close to shack.
-2 -
they need to make it feel size appropriate by cutting it in half, everyone feels its too big, you can hold w endlessly and every single killer will drop chase, i havent had any killer commit once you start holding w, i played only survivor last night and not a single killer got a 4k, i think i only died once because i was taunting a slinger at the exit gate
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The map is below average in size. Obviously "cutting it in half" would be a stupid idea, do you even realize how small it would be?
Sometimes people just dont realize how big or small maps actually are. You cannot just say "Map is too big", when it is below average in size, lol.
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I've had some pretty ######### 3 gen spots too.
Here are some gen spawns vie had, green indicating gens
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This honestly surprises me. What is the actual size of the map? It feels absolutely enormous, especially as 110.
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Post edited by TiSeraph on0
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I don't know if the map is 'small' compared to other DBD maps. its one of the most claustrophobic maps in the game. It seems more cluttered than Lery's, a little behind Hawkins. The distance between the gens may not be huge per se, but the pathing is nuts. I've lost multiple hooks because there was no straight line to a hook. I'll see a gen being worked with discordance/brine, and have to weave around to get to it, resulting in It's going to magnify the poverty of killers without strong movement powers, which were already the determining trait in the effectiveness of killers.
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As a survivor main, I played multiple rounds in the map showcase without seeing my killer for nearly the entire trial. This is INSANE. I could have understood a couple games due to people still learning the map, but it shouldn't be so complicated to navigate that survivors never accidentally run into the killer or get found for an entire trial while not even trying to hide. I'm honestly not sure how we could address this, maybe it will resolve itself as people learn the map or maybe we need to sneak in a few more doorways to access different areas more easily.
I have also noticed that pallets are…. hit and miss on this map. Either the pallet is an extremely strong god pallet, or its absolute trash that you will get injured at every single time (so bad it isn't even a 50/50 at that point lol). There aren't really any middle of the ground loops or 50/50 setups on this map it seems. I think strengthening a couple of these really bad pallet spawns into something decent (or at least something we can go for a 50/50 on), while possibly removing some of the god pallet spawns from rotation would help balance this out.
The totem spawns are interesting. Unfortunately, it seems like a lot of them are right out in the open. This is odd to me, considering this is pretty much an indoor map. There have to be better corners/parts of the map that disguise them a bit more, I don't understand why we are placing them where they will be instantly spotted. I will say there are a handful of really good totem spawns on this map, I just wish we would remove some of the obviously bad ones from the rotation. I'm a hex/boon lover, so I like when you guys give us sneakier totem options lol.
Visually, this map is 11/10 for me. The lighting and setting look amazing and I love seeing something that is entirely new to DBD. Your artists did a fantastic job with making this map look awesome. My ONLY concern is that there seem to be flickering/flashing lights in a lot of locations on this map. It might be wise to look into an accessibility option to disable the flickering on the lights, as there are some gamers out there who are at a higher risk of a seizure from this lighting (while you're at it, a flash to black option for players getting blinded would be a welcome accessibility setting too).
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After some matches with different killers and survivors on this map, here is my feedback. I will use this layout to explain my thoughts better and you know what I mean:
First of all, the god-window in the CD-Store has to go because it is way too strong, especially when you use the pallet near the Storage Sinks. I can be used by every survivor three times per chase, which makes these chases too difficult for nearly every killer. Then, the window between Luggage and Noodle eatery is also problematic, especially when you get the god pallet. No matter in which direction the killer chases you, you can get the fast vault and keep the chase up. The best solution would be to move the door from the Noodle eaters more to the Luggage, so the wall becomes shorter and the windows therefore weaker. Instead of that window, you can get the window in the Storage Fruit house, which can also be rather boring for killers since it also connects well to the god pallet and be used for long loops but survivors can also use it to make it to the edge map of the low street, which is a huge time waste for the killers. The Low Street area is a great spot for survivors to go down because there are no generators and it takes forever to move away from there. In my option the Storage Fruit-window should get a nerf by putting the door closer to the window and the Laundry and Storage Spotlights house should be removed/close, so survivors cannot die in that corner. Yes, according to the layout, the map is not that big (32 tiles without edges) but all of these buildings, fences, and other stuff, it is much bigger gameplay-wise because you can never walk in a straight line and that makes the map so big gameplay-wise. Removing that area would also fix the Storage Fruit window that is also kinda strong.
Next, the map has four possible god-pallet spawns and you will always have two of them: These possible god-pallets need to go because they are so boring to face. The best pallets are the ones where both sides have to play around but god-pallets are just a huge time waste and unfair.
Also, the long wall between Market and Convenience store Fruit needs either to be smaller or a door because this wall is also very strong - similar to the long fences on Badham. You can hear a survivor behind that wall it will take you forever to catch-up on that.
Another issue of this map is the hold W issue; Survivors can hold W forever and the killer has nearly no options to somehow corner the survivor or to decide in which direction the survivor is forced to go. The mainbuilding is a huge problem for that because you can pre-run killers around the mainbuilding (edge map) and it will take forever to catch-up. Since the inside is very open, survivors can also hold distance well or will see you and there is no mindgame possible- just catch-up (similar to RPD mainroom where you just catch-up when the survivors uses the stairs as distance holders). A would become a bit less hold W-like when nerfing the god/strong windows as well as the god-pallets and closing the Laundry and Storage Spotlights house while also shorten the Market wall or put a door in it.
Then, for survivors: The exit gates are really bad and killers, especially the ones with decent mobility, can defend the exit gates pretty well and once you are in a 2v1 situation, it will be so brutal. In my opinion, the top exit gate should be moved to behind the TV's and drums house, so the killer has a more difficult time checking exit gates.
Another issue is that around the Market, you will often have a nasty three-gen that is easy to defend due to the open area. Sure, we have the anti-three-gen-feature but nevertheless, playing around this in SoloQ is unfair, especially when it's a mobility or range killer because then you cannot even loop - this needs a fix. Otherwise, the Market is fine, having short loops is not a huge problem considering the fact that the map has so many line-of-slight-blockers - you also have the shack.
TL:TR
- Remove/weaken the god pallets and especially the god-windows because they are too strong for the average killers
- The map is gameplay-wise much bigger due to the many houses and you cannot go straight from A to B. The Low Street needs to be smaller, so it feels less big and awful for killers to be there.
- The three-gen-issue around the Market needs a tweak
- the exit gates need a better spawn, so it's a bit more difficult for killers to defend them.
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rest my case, also "would be a stupid idea" is not an argument, thank god you're not in charge of making decisions
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