http://dbd.game/killswitch
Fast Track, what were you thinking with this perk?
This perk is just hostile design in itself, Punish the killer for doing their job? seriously? how much hand holding do you need to give survivors before you realize this is on you for balancing this game around the S tier killers instead of just nerfing them. You can literally remove half progress of a gen with ONE person running perks revolving around that perk, and people complained about this perk in the PTB? But you didn't listen to that, "The T is for testing." you've really followed through on that. With all the gen perks being added, stop adding more. The game doesn't need them and the only people who think it does are the survivors that refuse to improve at the game and don't understand the point of a pvp game. Do better.
Comments
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You can literally remove half progress of a gen with ONE person running perks revolving around that perk, and people complained about this perk in the PTB?
…while your team is dying. Why do people always skip over this part?
Fast Track was a bad Perk before. Fast Track is still not a good Perk, even if it is better now. People were panicking about Fast Track when it first released and this panic was, as always, unjustified. Now Fast Track received changes and people are panicking. Because for some reason, people think that one Survivor Perk (which was either new or received changes) needs to be the next big thing which is concerning for Killer. And almost always it turns out to be a non-issue.
With all the gen perks being added, stop adding more.
They are all bad tho. The only good ones are Dejavu, but mainly because you find Generators quicker and have better tools to avoid 3-Gens and Resilience, but this is because it is an overall good Perk.
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Your team doesn't have to die, they just need to get hooked. That is a massive difference. People can still survive and win the game with 2 hookstates
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You know what I mean. Give it a week and nobody will talk about Fast Track anymore. I am 100% sure of that.
The only thing I am not sure is if this is because people realized it is not as bad as they thought it is or BHVR is doing another kneejerk reaction nerfing the Perk into the ground again.
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So, I can't play right now (RIP to my PC :( ) but I have been around for previous instances of new gen speed builds, so I think it's worth asking a question as a quick sanity check:
Is Fast Track actually the problematic part of those builds?
The last one of these that I was around for was the Stranger Things Teamwork perks, and categorically they weren't the problematic part of those builds. Those perks, together, give one person the equivalent of Prove Thyself; the crazy co-op gen speed builds people were showing off were already possible and largely due to either toolboxes, or just the fact that co-op gen speeds can be kinda fast in a vacuum as long as you don't factor in travel time, opportunity cost, or the risk factor of the killer regressing more of the team's efforts at once with single perk procs.
I'm engaging in good faith here, I genuinely cannot test if Fast Track is the problem here. I just want that concept involved in the discussion because it seems important.
Though, speaking to Fast Track specifically, I do think people often overlook that you the killer are also gaining objective progress while Fast Track is in play. Hypothetically, if one person shaved off half a gen's progress but in exchange you have the entire rest of the team on death hook, it kinda doesn't matter much at that point, right?
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My problem comes from the fact that there is recorded evidence of builds using BNP, Fast Track and specialist to remove 50% required charges from a gen, and in spooknjukes own words, "We played for 2 hours and didn't lose once that entire time" and even turned MULTIPLE rounds from a loss into a win by doing that build. I've experienced this myself multiple times against swfs all running fast track and other perm charge perks, all it takes is 3 hook stages to get all 9 charges on Fast Track which just kind of punches you in the groin especially early game. I literally ONLY want the perk to give less charges on hooks and I would be more than fine with it that way.
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I guess I'll have to watch the video, but I think that anecdote might be proving my suspicions.
A toolbox is already involved, so that's a big red flag, if you take the toolbox out of the equation the build plummets in effectiveness.
I'm suspect about any build with Specialist in it being that good as well, considering the downtime involved in charging that perk. It's not impossible though, for sure.
Like I said above, I'm basically wondering how much of this build is accounted for by toolboxes and not Fast Track.
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That's exactly it… If you got tokens on kills I think that would be kinda fair.. it still feels like a comeback mechanic of sorts, but it would be a good counter for killers who tunnel a guy from the start of the match.
Also, the fact you're removing charges of the gen instead of just having faster progress is just too strong… there's literally no way to counter that, no matter how much gen regression you have.
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I guess nobody learned from gen kick meta. You can't mess to much with Gen speed and regression. They will probably kill the perk in a few months when play rates crash for killer. Or it won't be as big of a deal as we think and it will be forgotten.
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much like ressurgence it punishes spreading hooks and rewards hard slugging or hard tunneking . Abysmal perk design if their gowl is to encourage more fun matches.
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I can tell your a Refined Kills fan boy.
Post edited by RizeKagune on3 -
Yep. I watched less than 2 minutes of that overdramatic crash out and recognized the wording immediately.
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Yes yes, we've all heard what your favourite YouTubers have to say
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"Hypothetically, if one person shaved off half a gen's progress but in exchange you have the entire rest of the team on death hook, it kinda doesn't matter much at that point, right?"
Spot on. Every hook gets a killer a huge step towards their final objective. A couple percentage charges in exchange is minimal. Not near the same scope.
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I don't think perks should create a comeback mechanic at all, it should be built into the game mechanics themselves, not a band-aid. And to be honest, killers have the "Fire Up" / "Coup de Grace" perk, which also passively grants tokens for survivors objective progress
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Just another reason to tunnel or pick 2 survivors thats it, somehow I dont see it that often for now but I have seen some content creators start to make videos about gen build with this and it wont take long so more will do this and this bs gets to the masses than it will be gholing time till they adjust it.
One of best ways to prevent tunneling is to not only punish it as recesion but reward spreading hooks too and this perk compleatly kills this healty ideology that many want its like comparing dying light first version against the current one and arguing which is better for the health of the game (everyone who has common sence will know its current one that isnt rewarding tunnelvision that much as the og version which gave 25% slowdown after you killed obsession).
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I am afraid aswell that this perk could lead to even more tunneling, because it is one of these "They could have this perks" because you will kinda only know in end game chat.
Another problem I see are subtle cheaters abusing this. I mean who could tell if a gen really only lost a certain % of whole progress.
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I agree. This will lead to Tunneling being the only playstyle and that doesn't make sense, because it punishes Killers for spreading hooks (which i thought that was what they wanted to have killers do more of), while its able to be duplicated between survivors. And this can Be stacked on top of a brand new part which is also stackable.
Yes there is are perks and Addons that punish Survivors for doing Gens but they cant be duplicated in anyway and most of these perks and addons cant do much unless there put ontop of other perks or addons to gain value.
Its insane to me how people think its ok to do a Gen in 2secs but its a crime to tunnel a survivor out. Tell me how that makes sense
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If people are that scared of Fast Track and Bnp just make it so they can't stack with each other.
Problem solved
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Those are nonsensical arguments which happen every damn time someone picks out the current Survivor-Perk which is now a problem or a reason why Killers tunnel.
Subtle cheaters are no reason why the Perk should receive changes or not. Otherwise you can nerf every Perk with just saying "subtle cheaters". IMO if there is a Perk subtle cheaters might use it is Hyperfocus and if someone is using Hyperfocus without Stake Out, it is a sign, but even then, there needs to be more solid evidence.
And when it comes to tunneling - it is just another excuse for Killers who would have tunneled anyway to tunnel. We know those threats at this point which come up when a new Perk is released. But in the end, Killers will tunnel anyway. Saying that Fast Track might lead to more Killers tunneling is just not logical, tunneling is already the most efficient way to play Killer and also the easiest way to play Killer, which has no downsides (if you pick your right chases of course) and only upsides. So Fast Track excisting does not change anything on that.
Post edited by Aven_Fallen on5 -
Though fast track isnt the first perk on the survivor side that indirectly or directly encourages a unfun style i guess. We reworked dying light because it "encouraged tunneling" well if a survivor brings flip flop power struggle and emotes on a pallet and theres 1 teammate nearby or the killer waits even a few seconds (because they buffed power struggle threshold). The combos considered a "accepted slug situation". So we should just be forced to leave them there not progressing our own gamestate and they get to have fun on the floor for up to 4 minutes? Boil over if you know map hook spawns and put yourself on a upper area (old rpd library anyone)? Eitherway thats one of the reasons I couldnt have seen the antislug working out because they didnt change any of those scenarios. Anyone remember original background player that gave the unhooker the speed boost instead of the unhooked? One of the times ive seen the forums united saying "okay thats just unhealthy" lol. So sometimes its good for people to panic.
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Ofcourse do such perks change the number of people tunneling, I didn´t say its the reason why people tunnel.
But a healthy way for this perk would be that you get the tokens by the amount of Survivors sacrificed not for each hook. So you had a comeback against tunneling Killers and not against Killers which give you a "good" or "fair" game.
If we keep punishing Killers for spreading hooks with faster gen speeds and reward them for tunneling, tunneling won´t disappear.
The downvotes in this thread are so random. People get downvoted by saying that a perk which encourages tunneling shouldn't give Killer the reason to do so.
While they Claim in the next sentence that the perk is not strong at all. If this perk is no problem as the survivors claim then there shouldn't be a problem to change this perk to be anti tunnel than anti hook spreading as Killers ask for.
You Guys are wild from time to time...
Post edited by Leon_van_Straken on0 -
Meanwhile, you can't even do gens because of gen block perks. I really seriously don't think killers want to discuss handholding faithfully.
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Spotted the survivor main trying to justify this broken perk. I watched an Iridescent Partner Streamer spend an entire night abusing this perk and 9/10 times he got at least 3 if not 4 survivors out because most killers don't slug and tunnel as much as these forums suggest they do.
In fact, no I will not tell you the build, but he managed to finish a generator entirely solo withing using an entire toolbox. I saw this multiple times.-13 -
I tested the Perk and it is not as good as people think it is. It is just the typical hysteria from Killer Mains when something might not be useless anymore on the Survivor Side which was useless before.
Let alone that the scenario you described was also possible before the Buff. The part that Gens can be done faster with Fast Track is not new, what is new is that it is reduced charges and not faster repair speed. But this does not matter if the Killer does not even kick the Gen.
So, no. I tested it and came to the conclusion that it does not benefit me more than my regular Survivor Build. Even if single Gens could be done fast (again, this was possible before the Buff), it does not really save the time I lose by not being able to be efficient in other ways.
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fast track vs a weak m1 killer that’s playing fair will result in a free escape everytime. Horrible design.
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Oh well if YOU tested it then case closed. When are you releasing your full video of your gameplay?
If you don't have video of multiple games of you trying to abuse it and failing due to it not being broken, I will believe an Iridescent Partnered streamer that has been doing multiple games on both sides illustrating how terribly broken it is.-11 -
Of course you will, since it helps your unreasonable hysteria. (Whatever a Iridescent Partnered streamer is)
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The new DBD Creator Program. It means they are sponsored by BHVR. Point is, he's a big streamer who has many hours of showing how abused this can be.
But that's the problem with the us vs. them mentality this game has.. no amount of proof by the other side will convince any of us… and BHVR a lot of the time it seems just listens to the biggest voices… Is tunneling and slugging a terrible epidemic that happens every single game? Yes if you ask a survivor main, no if you ask a killer main.-11 -
But a healthy way for this perk would be that you get the tokens by the amount of Survivors sacrificed not for each hook. So you had a comeback against tunneling Killers and not against Killers which give you a "good" or "fair" game.While a possible direction, it creates its own issues.
To balance out the impact of an elimination, Fast Track would have to give quite a lot of value, so you could have situations were the survivors all run the perk, the killer gets their first elimination, and then multiple gens pop. Cries of 'why am I being punished for doing my objective' would increase substantially.
It also gives the survivors less incentive to protect each other, which probably goes against what would lead to a good game.
It also wouldn't in anyway reward spreading hooks. The killer still has to get eliminations, so if the killer spreads hooks all that does is give the survivors more time at full strength, then they still get the value of Fast Track.
While they Claim in the next sentence that the perk is not strong at all. If this perk is no problem as the survivors claim then there shouldn't be a problem to change this perk to be anti tunnel than anti hook spreading as Killers ask for.BHVR shouldn't give into fear mongering unless they have evidence its actually a problem. Use this as the standard and we'll only be left with meta perks and trash perks.
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Yeah, and because he is such a streamer his opinion is obviously far more valueable than any other opinion. Classic.
But even IF I would be willing to record my gameplay (I wont), you are basically asking me to fail. And if I show that Fast Track was not as valuable as your godlike Streamer is claiming, you will simply say that I threw on purpose.
And fun fact - I even said that Gens can get done quickly. But I just said that it was overall not better than me with my regular build. But dont worry, if you complain enough, BHVR does another kneejerk reaction and nerfs the Perk into the ground. And the best thing is that most Survivors dont even care about Fast Track, since it is not as good as you or godlike Streamers want to claim it is.
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Point is, he's a big streamer who has many hours of showing how abused this can be.You're allowed to say who it is. We can't insult Content Creators (or anyone for that matter) according to forum rules, but we can certainly discuss their videos.
Otherwise it's just 'I heard from someone I trust more than anyone here', and there's not much you can do with that on a discussion forum.
But I just said that it was overall not better than me with my regular build.This is what I haven't been getting about the discussions. If they weren't running Fast Track, what else would the survivor have been running? Even if we just leave it to gen rushing perks, I can see scenarios were Fast Track could outperform alternatives, but also lots of scenarios were it doesn't.
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This is what I haven't been getting about the discussions. If they weren't running Fast Track, what else would the survivor have been running? Even if we just leave it to gen rushing perks, I can see scenarios were Fast Track could outperform alternatives, but also lots of scenarios were it doesn't.
Probably another Perk where people would complain. My Build with Fast Track was Fast Track, Hyperfocus, Stake Out, Built to Last and a Commodious Toolbox with good Add Ons. And there were Gens which I finished fast. But other games where I am very sure that my regular Build (Resilience, Deliverance, DS, Dejavu) would have been more helpful. E.g. I got tunneled in a game, but I could have unhooked myself with Deliverance and I would have had DS. And while this would have only bought a bit of time, it would have been more useful than me not being able to be on a Gen (let alone that me being tunneled did not create any Stacks for me anyway). Another time I was simply two-hooked and I would have had Deli ready to avoid that.
There was one instance where Fast Track MIGHT have been clearly the better choice, it was a Gen which was heavily guarded by the Killer and it helped to put in Fast Track Stacks bit by bit to slow down the regression. But we only finished the Gen because the Killer left it at some point, which might also have been due to the LImit on Regression Events.
I guess overall it evens out or is slightly worse to use Fast Track. And I also think that the perceipton of Killer Players is warped, because people who lost game before the Buff are still losing games, but are now claiming it is due to Fast Track.
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Just because you (not meaning you specifically would, I trust that you would not) can't harass him on these forums doesn't mean you (again, its not you specifically I do not trust) can't harass him elsewhere.
But okay, the streamer is JG_Dahrk. Hes been doing streams with the perk all week and is going to be doing a full video on YT soon.-9 -
Someone with tons of hours playing at a high level (and performing for an audience) is not a good example of anything in this game. You can just play it yourself and see if you get value. I tried it and got none and then I took it off. And a lot of other people are doing the same. I saw it a few times in my killer matches yesterday. It made no difference in those outcomes. I haven't seen it once today. The novelty is quickly fading, and it was brought on by overreacting.
Ask a survivor main vs ask a killer main doesn't even make sense. Play killer only and all you'll see is your own playstyle, and if you do those things you already don't think they're an issue. Play survivor and you'll see a lot of different killers and a lot of different cheese.
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He's a killer main, rarely plays survivor. It's really not that hard to get the value if you aren't downright terrible at the game, and most killers quickly leave those levels of players.
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I'm so shocked to hear the random complaining CC is a killer main. Completely unexpected. I don't really care what some streamer thinks. What is it with this community's inability to have and use their own experiences?
The value of this perk has nothing to do with being good or bad. It's based on your team doing badly. If you're not in a cordinated 4man where everyone is using it it's value is very low. You sitting on a gen and getting more progress on it while everyone around you dies isn't exactly a winning situation.
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My Build with Fast Track was Fast Track, Hyperfocus, Stake Out, Built to Last and a Commodious Toolbox with good Add Ons. And there were Gens which I finished fast. But other games where I am very sure that my regular Build (Resilience, Deliverance, DS, Dejavu) would have been more helpful.I'm trying to run through the possibilities on value because I think what you list gives a good way to look at the possible perk value (in other words, I get a bit rambly).
Let's start by imagining that you could only run this build, but had to drop one perk. Which would it be? Fast Track clearly seems to weakest choice on value given.
So comparing the opportunity cost compared to other gen perks:
Deja Vu: I expect in most matches Fast Track would give more raw value, but Deja's ability to see the gens is very useful. The fact that it gets value right from the beginning also means it is more useful in breaking an early game three gen.
Prove Thyself: Probably worse than Fast Track, though again has the possibility to do an early gen quickly or the last gen when the killer is in strong defense mode and the survivors naturally group up.
Resilience: Really depends how comfortable you are with being injured, but if the survivor is comfortable looping injured, this perk gives the slightly quicker benefits to multiple things and might outperform Fast Track on raw value against anything but the killer really spreading hooks to the other survivors.
Bardic Inspiration: Obviously benefited if playing in a team and the rolls that come out, but looking at usually 1 to 2% per skill check seems to outshine Fast Track, especially given the benefit can be shared. The setup time is an issue, that depends on play style though.
Invocation: Yeah, no.
So I think Fast Track is fitting with a lot of DbD perks, it gives you slightly more raw value, but you lose a lot of versatility (i.e. We'll Make It to Botany Knowledge).
Of course, I'm not mentioning the unregressable nature of the perk. I don't think that's a huge issue with gen rushing builds, which is where most complaints seem to think it will occur. The idea of gen rushing is to get the gen done before the killer can interrupt it, and gen rushing as a SWF is to finish before the killer starts racking up hooks, both negating the value of Fast Track.
Then of course there's the value that could be gotten from an exhaustion perk, anti-tunnel, etc. all of which have far more potential than Fast Track.
Could it have more value in different build? Say a diverse build with a mix of everything? Well if bringing a toolbox, Built to Last seems to outperform it, resilience and bardic have the same issues. In a build like this the unregressable nature might be more useful, but the trade offs still seem pretty clear.
I guess overall it evens out or is slightly worse to use Fast Track.Yeah, I think that's accurate. Usable, sure. But, struggling to see broken.
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Sometimes I'm just playing it for the rewarding gong.
The perk is not for punishing you for hooking. The hooking is the restriction of the perk.
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Just because one's opinion happens to align with someone else's, streamer or not, doesn't mean one does not have their own opinion.
But whatever, I am done with this thread because we obviously have a different take on things, and neither of us is going to be able to say anything to change the other's viewpoint.-7 -
This ignores the existence of even matches. Not to mention fast track rewards tunneling since it punishes twelve hooking.
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Not only does the killer have to earn their perk they are also earning the perk for the survivors too
-5 -
It's not broken on level of MFT, CoH, or MoM, but I would say it's overtuned.
It weird to double buff such a simple gen rush perk, where only counterplay is to tryhard as killer…
Would be better, if you gained less tokens for hooks and more of them when survivor is actually killed. So it doesn't punish killer spreading hooks, which is what you want them to do.-4 -
Yea, I don't get how survivors defend this with how much they complain about tunneling. A tunneling killer is much less likely to have a problem with this perk. So you want killers to tunnel, or you want killers to play by the survivor rulebook and spread out hooks? It's not rocket science.
-5 -
It's actually pretty simple.
Killers say they'll tunnel over everything. Perk improves chases? Sorry, I don't have time for multiple chases, I need to tunnel. Gens faster? Sorry, don't have time, need to tunnel. Faster heals? Sorry, can't give the survivors time to heal.
Anti-tunneling is getting boosted? Can't have that, killer outcry.
Basically, the argument lost all value a long time ago. Absolutely any improvement to survivors is an excuse to tunnel, and when killers get boosted we don't see decreases in tunneling. Some killers will always tunnel because winning is all they care about, some killers play in a more balanced manner because they are more interested in a fun match.
That part is the same for survivors. So among the 'elite' levels survivors will rush gens, killers will try to tunnel as quickly as possible, and I'm sure everyone will have fun.
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Look, this "argument" feels like a big Joke at this point. Time has proven again and again that nothing will bring Killers away from tunneling, unless they get actually punished for it. And this will not happen, since there was a big outcry when the Devs tried to punish Killers for tunneling and reward them for not tunneling. Which could have worked with Tweaks.
But saying that Killers tunnel because of X is just old at this point. Because we have seen in the past that this only moves the goalpost. X then gets fixed and suddenly reason Y is the cause for tunneling.
Even if the Devs nerf Fast Track, there will be the same amount of tunneling, because Killers tunnel since it is the easiest way to secure a victory. It has just become a big strawman (same with M1-Killer, another strawman nowadays, since all improvements for Killer do not bring them to play Clown over Blight or Trapper over Nurse).
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I have to agree.
Sure, people already tunnel for no reason, but perk design like this only PUNISH those of us who don't tunnel. Where's the logic?-4 -
My downvotes (and yours will soon too) say all that needs to be said.
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Some killers will always tunnel because winning is all they care about, some killers play in a more balanced manner because they are more interested in a fun match.
Yes, and now we are getting punished for it. That is the problem that I and many others have with the new Fast Track. Why is that so hard to understand? Being punished by the new Fast Track (no matter how many times it shows up) is the opposite of a fun match.Also why is is it that its okay for a survivor to "want to win" meaning escape, but it's not okay for a killer to "want to win" which means kill? Why do survivors get to play to win but killers are not allowed to?
-5 -
its been a week, it is still a point of discussion.
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This exactly. It really doesn't matter what it is, people will complain about it and use it as an excuse for anything, while never allowing any changes that help survivors. Killers regularly bring 4 antigen at all levels of ability, but God forbid survivors bring this not very good perk that continues to show up in only the matches I have where survivors lose. I never used to see so many gen builds in my matches but it's getting super frequent, and it's because killers won't give an inch.
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