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Grimoire Judgment Prototype Feedback: Change the Sin System (+ Suggestion)
Hello everyone! Warning: Kind of a long rant coming. I have the prime suggestion at the very bottom.
Recently, there was a major update to the Grimoire prototype build. They allowed several content creators such as Hens, Otz, etc, to showcase the new killer and show how the killer power has been coming along. The killer had some very cool new things that come along with its power! The ray from the heavens coming down and injuring survivors is a very cool concept, and while the exile system needs some reworking, the devs themselves had said that they are still working on making that more fun and interactive for both sides. So I won't really comment on the exile system here.
The main reason I am writing this post is because of the how sin is gained currently.
In the prototype, they showed that survivors gained sin by being hit by the Judgment's power once. After that, Judgment could then injure survivors with their powers. I don't think its too overblown to see that the common sentiment among players is that this is disappointing. We have gotten a LOT of range killers in the past that have an infection and then injure mechanic. While this was cool for some killers, conceptually this doesn't make a whole lot of sense for the base concept of sin. Why is a survivor "sinning" or "gaining sin" when they are being hit by the Judgment?
Not to mention, that's inherently not what we voted for in the vote. We voted for "Sins are gained through unique actions", very much not the one that was "sin gained through killer action" one. I'm not gonna harp too much on them for changing this- they have a deadline for when this chapter needs to come out and they are doing their best to make the killer coherent before that release date (and based on playtest feedback). But its just so disappointing to me that they didn't even TRY to think of something else and instead defaulted to the "three-hit ranged attack" sort of killer they have been doing a lot of recently. Players want something new and unique with the ranged attack, so it sucks to see what we voted for so quickly thrown away!
As for how to fix this, I have a couple suggestions to throw out there. But to establish something beforehand- I don't think a survivor should need to be "infected with sin" to be injured by the Judgment's power. Maybe if the Judgment's power was super easy to hit I would start to lean otherwise, but as it stands, it seemed the Judgment's Ray of Retribution was INCREDIBLY hard to hit with on the prototype build. I think the maximum I saw players hitting with the power in a single game was almost always under 10? And the Judgment was always losing pretty bad except for in one game where Otz brought NOED along and that saved the game for him. Additionally, I don't think the Ray of Retribution should infect survivors with sin by directly hitting survivors.
So how should survivors gain sin?
I think the Ray of Retribution should still somewhat be involved, but in a much different way- let's instead think of Plague's infection mechanic and take some inspiration from that. Plague uses her power to "infect" the environment and the survivor's infection gauge increases when they interact more with infected material. So I'm copying a lot of this. I would much much much prefer another environmental infection mechanic rather than the Ray of Retribution being simply a "3 hit" power.
PRIME SUGGESTION (TLDR): The Ray of Retribution now "blesses" objects that it collides with. And by objects, I mean any vault location, pallet, locker, totem, or generator. These objects are now sanctified by the Judgment and any survivors interacting with those items. Interacting with the items will slowly build sin, but specifically vaulting a window in chase or throwing a pallet down in chase will greatly increase the sin meter. Stunning Judgment with a sanctified pallet will instantly fully build the sin meter. The sin meter is used solely to determine if a survivor will be sent to Exile while they are downed, it has nothing to do with being injured by the Judgment's power.
Comments
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I agree that the way it currently is feels uninspired and samey. According to them playtesting is why they scrapped it, but immediately throwing out thematic and interesting ideas because "playtesters say…" does feel like it can backfire, eg. the Myers rework. Apparently "mental load" was the issue? To me it doesn't feel worth abandoning the whole concept of retributive justice, which I think is the core of this Killer premise.
Your blessing idea is… I don't think super great though? It's not clear if Exile is something Judgement cares that much about inflicting to jump through the hoops you propose. Might as well throw my own hat in the ring:
Survivors develop Sin when they perform specific actions. They have 1 sin at once with the most recent one overriding the previous. Sin only affects if a Survivor can be Exiled, and Exile cleanses Sin. Survivors see their Sins, the Judgement briefly sees their recent Sin on a Special Attack hit. Sin modifies a Survivor's experience in Exile slightly. There are 7 in total:
- Pride: Blinded the Killer / Exile takes more effort to escape
- Wrath: Stunned the Killer / Return from Exile in the Basement, with stat buffs as if you had just been unhooked
- Lust: Completed a heal on another Survivor / Return from Exile with 60s Mangled + Haemorrhage
- Envy: Took a Protection Hit / Return from Exile Blinded for 60s
- Greed: Opened/Rummaged a Chest / Drop your item upon entering Exile
- Gluttony: Cleansed/Blessed a Totem / Return from Exile Exhausted for 60s
- Sloth: Hid in a locker / You have 5% Hindered in Exile and 10s after leaving
The Judgement gains a small bonus for each unique Sin it's punished. I think just making the power incrementally easier to get hits with, like a wider beam, makes sense. The Judgement however should not feel reliant on these buffs in the slightest and should be able to cruise along even with like 2 unique Sins comfortably enough.
The above idea is kind of the reverse concept of "punishing bad Survivor behaviour" I see sometimes, I tried to lean into the idea of the Killer having a warped interpretation of innocent actions as if they were sins. I do admittedly love the idea of nuking Survivors because they tbagged at exit gates, but things like "oh, punish Survivors for screwing around instead of unhooking teammates!" does not really have legs as a Killer power mechanic IMO.
In general, I don't think an idea like the above is "too much mental load". On a casual level it is essentially just cool flavor and is only something higher-skilled players should really be forming tactics around. I don't think Judgement needs to be or should be winning/losing games based on whatever the Sin system is, it should be a flavorful and fun idea to sell the fantasy of being punished for things you've done, not a third health state
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I don't want to leave the feedback without a comment and of course we will share with the Team, but please be aware at this stage of production the design is pretty much set - it's balancing that has to happen now.
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I know i'm late for this feedback but i really think that this idea can fixe many issue on the new killer.
So the main complains over the new killer where that the exile was to weak and you couldn't enter the exile your self has a killer
My idea could fixe both without making her over power
Firstly, When a survivor is exile they get link to a altar and this altar become corrupted by sins. While corrupted it can't remove sins, instead this altar will save the survivor from the exile (it will work like pyramid head cage then)
Secondly, The killer can enter the exile, by doing so the beams of light stop and the killer will fly above (or more like walking on a invisible floor on top of the survivor), if you hit the survivor 2 times with your power the survivor will be punish. When punish the hook timer of that survivor will reset and the survivor will be stuck in exile for 60s (maybe less). If another survivor try to purify a altar (saving the exiled survivor) the save will be done as soon has the punishement has ending (so after 60s here) automaticly.
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