Thoughts on Jason now that he isn't the newest killer
Hello!
I am making another post because the forum is closing soon and it is as good a time as any to ask this question.
Now that Jason isn't the newest killer, what are people's thoughts on him? Current experiences playing against him?
For example my Jason experience then vs now:
Now:
- I have not seen Jason nearly as much as before. At least in my games his player drop off is steep. OFC most people are playing Judgement but for other killers in between I'm seeing … like no Jason's. The last one I saw was like two weeks ago? So I can't even form a good opinion since I barely see him unfortunately.
- I feel like when I do run into Jason's, I survive longer against them now than before. I'm unsure if I'm better at kiting or if I'm getting paired against newer Jason's because tbh I'm not a stellar kiter - against most killers I go down pretty quickly (even the ones regarded as not great).
Then:
- I got in to the game when Jason released with several friends (5) and only myself and one other friend still play now because the others haated Jason (we were all like 5 hr~ new players), and one in particular got tunneled in like 3 matches in a row and never got back on :p OFC we ran into Jason like every game with at most one non-Jason game in between. This is both good and bad since we learned (sort of) what Jason did as new players but also bad because when we got a new killer we had no idea what they did lol.
- I remember really hating Jason but in hindsight it was largely due to (1) seeing him every game and getting bored of it (2) with more Jasons, there was more chance to get hex Jason which was not fun either because IDK where hexes spawn
Would love to hear about how other people think of Jason :). Doesn't have to be gameplay! I know some people like my duo have opinions on the specific version of Jason we got or even his gameplay style.
Comments
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to be frank minus a couple issues, people complained because they refused to take the time to learn how to play against him as happens with every release.
in jasons case, when people refuse to touch gens when he is in OE and crouch walk everywhere then yea your going to lose every single game.
When people stopped doing that and became willing to move around and touch gens he became fine. I would say he is pretty balanced, however playing him 12 matches in a row at some points made me hate playing against him as i need variety in my matches.
but yes, he really was mostly fine then and hes completely fine now.
-9 -
To play as hes very straightforward and easy to pickup and play, and get results with.
But he can also struggle to catch certain players, as a killer gets overplayed people start to get used to looping them better, much like wesker where he was every 2nd killer and tunneled in every round - so people got used to looping as best as they could against him with a mindset to make sure he doesn't win. Same has kinda happened with jason, he is still stronger than most of the roster, but people have stopped playing since they are no longer getting the always win results.
-1 -
I played a ton during the anniversary, I somewhat can loop a Jason, he is still one of my most hated killers. I will admit, some of that hate comes from being a Springtrap player, and Jason's kit being a carbon copy of Springtraps but better in every way plus several extra additions on top.
However, besides having bias as a Springtrap player, I just hate how bloated his kit is. He's essentially a 4.6m/s ranged killer with probably the best map mobility in the game, has minimal downtime from extremely fast reloads, while being able to spawn on top of you (and often break a pallet in the process, wasting no extra time) and also getting information both in Omnipresent Evil for free and also with a spike in a survivor (and unlike Springtrap, it's very likely the survivor can't do anything about it without risking death from a massive 10% hindered). It certainly doesn't help that Jason pretty much has his own personal 5th perk in the form of Deputy's Badge.
Jason as a general concept sounds actually quite thematic and cool, but when you go into the details it just feels cheap to me. On my end, I still see Jason extremely frequently, and they're very often unenjoyable. Especially when his ability to camp and tunnel is so strong that most Jasons I run into just do it every game.
To me, Jason represents a lot of the flaws in BHVR's recent killer design philosophy. I'm sure he's fun to play, although I have barely run any games playing him. But his entire design feels like it is based around what is convenient for the killer rather than what is fun for the whole lobby.
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My duo basically exclusively plays Springtrap on the killer side and some stuff Jason has makes him sad (e.g. getting haste out of OE, I joke and say if Jason can have it Springtrap can have it out of doors too).
My big thing against him I still dislike despite being more okay with him now is how if I chase him well he can drop chase and find people extremely fast for free in OE which is something most killers can not do Like other killers just have to walk around normal speed and don't get the red fog of telling where survivors are.
Otherwise I guess I just accepted what he can do and moved on to disliking Judgement more (hoping once Judgement gets played less I'll be neutral on her like on Jason too). If I saw Jason frequently I'd dislike him more I think. He definitely has a lot going on.
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Yeah on certain tiles I feel like I can really loop a Jason. It helps to have a Jason who doesn't have stellar aim or to be kited on tiles with tall walls naturally but I usually find if I'm out in the open and can juke the first spike, the game will probably go well for the survivor.
And yeah, in the anni peak I feel Jason's were stomping but the odd Jason here and there is not going nearly as crazy. Definitely partially due to people being used to him now.
Unfortunately I do not own Jason to play him though 😥 I kind of wished you could trial killers in custom so I can see who I actually want.
-1 -
I think because he is infrequent again people are going back to crouching all the time during OE which is frustrating.
(I only have my one game from weeks ago to base this on so take that with a grain of salt. Also I have I think idk reaching 300 hours now wow. So I assume the people playing with are similar tho also I get P100's like 1 every other lobby idk).
And yes I also agree with wanting variety in my matches. Jason is much more welcome now that I see him less. Like, even if it was a weak killer like Ghost Face if I played 5 matches in a row against him and I'd get annoyed too lol.
My biggest complaint now for sure is probably just what Springtrap has vs Jason since my duo plays Springtrap and I have a bias toward feeling he is starting to feel dated, and I'm sure many certain killer mains feel this too about their older main.
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I don't mind him as much as when he was new. But he isn't really interesting to face or add anything for the killer role he seems to be a streamlined and complete killer experience all bundled into one killer. He always starts chase near somebody, has a range attack, some stealth and information. Sounds great for a newer player but it's not something I'd want to play as an old timer. Too generalist/jack of all trades for me.
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RIP hagatha =(
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I still think it's a terrible design to give a killer everything. On demand mobility, free info, haste that makes him not really 4.4, super tunneling ability, easy reloads, etc. I see him plenty and I still hate him.
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Yeah maybe it is just relativism on my part since compared to Judgement I'd take a Jason. I certainly wouldn't if I saw him more because I recall really not enjoying playing against him during anniversary. Even tonight I've been playing for three hours and seen 0 zeroes it is odd.
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@HexSlugged What is Hagatha? Is that the Hag?
The one thing I have seen for Hag on youtube is the M1 reduction build with the waterlogged shoe but after the reversion of Dark Arrogance (?) it is a bit weaker now. Also it kind of completely changes her trap identity if that is what hagatha is all about…
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Oh I definerley hate judgment more. Worse design they've ever done as far as I'm concerned.
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Think he's still stupidly strong given he has everything in his kit. Like at the bare minimum he should actually be a 4.4 killer instead of being 4.6.
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Definitely don't mind Jason as much as I did on release. The biggest problem was the hex build and they've mostly taken care of that otherwise he's a pretty standard projectile killer. I don't know that he should be 115 for so long but it's not a massive problem.
-1 -
I don't have many complaints about him but I feel you shouldn't scream when he appears if you're in a locker and some addons are annoying. Other than that I'm pretty much fine with his kit. Really makes no sense to me why you scream when he appears while you're in a locker. It's annoying enough you have to crouch to move around when he's in OE mode. I pretty much can't use some perks while he's present because he just immediately knows you're in a locker in situations where you could set up for him. Way too much info for how little effort he needs considering his kit is pretty strong overall.
Either way - Not going to ruin my experience but that's where I'd draw the line on things that should be addressed with him. Not everyone is going to agree and it doesn't even make him "overpowered" but more so - why does he do that also? It makes some perks unnecessarily more difficult to use against him when he's already insanely strong.
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hagatha is a joke name i like to call her, it was more for myself than anything. but yea, i really like her concept but the game has not been kind to her and shes been forgotten by the devs. she really needs improvement in chase. she doesnt really even need all that much, just some small tweaks and she would feel good around high c or b tier instead of D tier.
I really enjoy trap playstyles and we barely have any options and one of them is only good when its teams who never play against hag and so are taken off guard. At least trapper with his struggles is steel actually decent and you can win a good number of games. Hag requires way more work to win.
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Jason overall is pretty wee rounded to better compete modern game direction and I personally hate the fact that there is so much powercrept across board. Huntress, Deathslinger, Springtrap and Trickster need to have their own unique strenght rather than being weaker in every aspect. Mainly the hitboxes over loops where Trickster and Deathslinger have tiny as Jason but Huntress and Slinger have huge hitboxes. Jason is big license therefore I understand why they make his kit so appealing but at the same time they can't ignore older killers being heavily powercrept, also why is Wesker getting buffs in every update when there are so many killer that need them more? I don't understand.
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Currently my least favourite killer to go against.
Omni presence makes it too easy to camp and tunnel.
Projectiles are too readily available and bad ping with DBD hitboxes make it a lose lose situation quite often.
7 -
A B or B- tier killer who is only good against coward or beginner survivors, extremely addon dependent and has a ''pseudo'' range power that is only working against clueless survivors or in animation lock.
No wonder people don't play him that much anymore. The hype is gone and what we have now is a mediocre killer who's power has way too many counters to be either effective or enjoyable.
-8 -
He's still better than every other range killer.
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Yeah that feeling is very familiar to me as well, and many other people on Springtrap (or even Huntress for that matter) often get the feeling of "I'm just playing Jason but worse" or "why am I nerfing myself and playing this killer when I could just play Jason" or "damn if I was Jason I would win that" too.
-1 -
Suuuuper braindead if they bring full hex, actually.
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i think he's fine
-2 -
Still think he needs to be 4.6
-4 -
Ultimately Jason is fine. He's definitely quite strong, but almost all of what he has is reasonably designed and has its appropriate counters.
I do think there are a handful of small things that are a little overtuned, though. It's a bit easy to reload in chase, for example, the scrap piles are pretty close to each other so there's not much risk of whiffing and realising "damn, I need to go into Omnipresent Evil and I might lose that survivor for it".
A couple other small tweaks in that vein and I think he'd be in basically a perfect spot. I think his addons are pretty whack, but that's a separate matter.
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I've got some good news for you.
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Thrill got nuked.
Blood favour doesnt activate on m2s anymore.
Why is he braindead with hexes if they are overall weaker?
-3 -
There was a match where I was crouching on a board, and then Jason appeared on the same board. Do you think that's normal?
My biggest question about this killer is how he finds survivors. Can he see survivors who are crouching on boards?
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If I understand his power correctly, he sees survivors as clumps of red fog. As a survivor, he will not see red fog where you are if you are (1) crouched and (2) moving. In other words you have to be crouched and moving so if Jason found you I think either he was lucky or you were crouched and not moving. You also always leave those 1-2 little red footprints at the start of OE no matter if you start crouching immediately I think. I could be wrong about the specifics here. I've seen a lot of Jason gameplay but I don't own him to play myself.
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Jason is pay to win trash for one simple reason, his reload is instant. He'll only be balanced when he has a timer to reload.
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Jason is and no one should doubt it A tier killer. He's movement is beyond absurd, he can go cross map at insane speed and bounce back on forth if scouted are isn't appealing enough to perform jumpscare. On top he has insanely good antiloop which Huntress can only dream about and also build in secondary antiloop in form of hindred and wallhacks, if that's not enough and neither his constant free finding of people interests you, you may as well consider his very strong add ons that no other killers have attemts to and which are so easily activatable, that you will get constant value from them all the time. And the fact that only prevent to that is doing nothing but crouchin which can by also bypassed by thwack makes that even stronger as you make scenario where survivors either refuse to progress game and being harder to find or they progress the game and gives you clues and "cough cough" free exhausted and gen damage for you just existing and once people complained about how many pallets are everywhere and yet Jason has double the pallets prebroken plus option to teleport into windows for immidiate m1 at pallets and windows that a lot of time spawn at the gen guarantee you free hit. Main issue I see with Jasons is that they are oversing spikes when they can reliably just eat m1. In nuthsell what Jason kit offers:
- Infinite duration map mobility at insane 8.0m/s with option to teleport to any prebroken, broken or standing pallet blocking it in progress denying chances of stunning him as he manifest, then teleport to windows and breakable walls which also a lot of time are next to the gen giving you a free hit. This ability also has only 12s cooldown. Amount of destination count is min. 70+ per map.
- Tiny hitbox projectile allowing you damaging survivors over taller rocks, through small cracks etc., on top of that he has thanks to hook density and his piles also based on rng 5+ options to reload without slowing down ******* on Huntress with her locker. :) He also auto reloads on every hook and has absolutely forgiving penalty from missing and if that's not enough you can tap m2 to restock all your ammos instantly. Hook spikes on top of that gives you wallhacks and if survivor wants to deny it they suffer 10 % hindred = 10 % haste which is a massive antiloop tool on it's own. Not even mentioning thath Jason already has haste from teleport that lasts for 25s, increasing his lunge in the process. And as cherry on top, hook spikes are great tool for tunneling as they 1) deny you from recovering 2) deny any use of desivie strike. Spikes than work the same but must pin someone onto wall.
- Tracking that tracks everyone who is not crouching in large radius, revealing them on top of jumpscare with killer instinct triggering most of his most used add ons such as sauna rock that shuts down any exhaustion perk for free and if survivors rat and crouch walk Thwack will bypass that and reveal them anyway. Survivors are revealed while hiding in lockers or standing still which is way stronger than best killer detection perks such as lethal or Nowhere to hide as they work throughout the game constantly.
Conclusion: While Jason is fairly decent killer (not overpowered), it doesn't change the fact that his kit is heavily overloaded and makes half the roaster a joke to even exist. As I said A-A+ killer depending on how good you are with aiming.
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Jason is the same as when launched, far too many powers that counter all survivor perks (footsteps and red mist are not blocked by anything). Boring to play against because it's just ch ch ah ah, here he is again. Ch ch ah ah hit off hook, ch ch ah ah blow up your gen with the most powerful addon on the game etc.
It's just another killer you have to automatically lose to, while waiting to play against more fun killers like the OG ones.
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It was apparently fixed so that you don't scream when in a locker but I have not tested it myself. He gets killer instinct on you anyway so the scream is not really giving you away.
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You scream in locker, they removed red mist so you have to use jump sscare to detect people in locker rather than getting free info.
-1 -
About 3 days ago I was in a locker trying to use Head On and when he appeared at shack I screamed so if it was supposed to be changed it's a bug.
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Yeah in 10.0.3 they said "Fixed an issue where The Slasher 'Jump Scare' cause the Survivors in Lockers to Scream" - I didn't see anything about the Red Mist being removed when in a locker. I guess the bugfix didn't work.
Lockers are supposed to always suppress screams in every situation. But even if you did not scream, he gets the Killer Instinct which has the heartbeat sound and the visual indicator even in the locker.
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My only issue with Jason currently is how he can stall the game by going into omnipresent evil without a time limit. Maybe adding a 60s max time he can stay in the void wouldn't harm the character and prevent some players from stalling the match by waiting someone to expose themselves so he can spawn out of the void.
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His main issue points remain as badge, coffee and certain totem builds.
His basekit is pretty much fine, strong sure, but fine.
-1 -
Basekit
- Make Omnipresent Evil token based like basically every other killer power in the game
- Remove the 2.5 second delay for crouching to become effective
- Perks that hide scratch marks should hide "footsteps", perks that hide auras should hide "Red Mist"
- Have the entity completely block teleport to locations near the hook like Dredge
Add-Ons
- Reduce the additional lost progress missing Deputy's Badge skill check, and add a cooldown
- Add a cooldown for the Toxic Waste add-on and remove the effect from Scrap Piles, and hooks recently unhooked from
Other add-ons I am not to familiar with, but the Undetectable ones are also a bit much.
4 -
He's overpowered, and, as usual, the developers let him stay this way to milk the license for money.
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I still actively dislike Jason. His kit is amazingly unfun to play against. I'm glad people are playing him less. His kit is way too overstuffed. OE forces the game to slowdown while giving him instant mobility, literal teleports. His ranged attack is way too overpowered and easy to reload with no penalty. On their own either of these powers would make for an effective killer. Both of them together is way too oppressive.
He's one of those killers that if played even semi competently needs a full team with either/or all good chase runners/ to be in full communication to have a decent chance of counter playing him.
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