@thesuicidefox I made a post about how the developers should rework the hook. Basically, when your on the hook for a extend period of time, you'll lose vision of everything. It's complete darkness, you can only see they hook and your survivor so you can't tell if your being camped or not. It makes being on the hook fun and it adds tension to the survivor because you'll never know if your going to be saved or not. Additionally you can't hear the killer's terror radius as well to make it confusing when you get unhooked.

Basically, instead of getting upset at killers for doing their job, make losing more fun!

@marshmallowking said:
The op didn't respond to the part when I stated about "how are you measuring fun" cause you can't...

I saw that, which is why this thread is so silly to me (entertaining but...)

 As far as I can tell op is advocating for no gameplay that is not what they consider to be skilled game play, something I believe to be subjective and only based on a personal emotional response.  

The quantifiable way of winning is either through pips or through killing in the eyes of a large majority of the killer base. that’s what he wants changed based on a personal preference how “fun” is measured for them.  

Any repetitive action or circumstance is boring and less “fun” eventually even any viable changes this thread could come up with would end up stale. These changes would most likely come from nerfs in the meta and buffs in the non meta (something that is already happening like it or not) or a complete overhaul to the game mechanics as a whole. A new mode of gameplay wouldn’t even solve this issue but I advocate for this option (never know when a not so interesting defense building FPS will blow up into a immensely successful BR with building) 

i think both both of our points @Zanfer is that the arguement itself is invalid because it’s unquantifiable, intangible and inconsistent.

Yeah the argument just doesn't make any sense cause it is off of an emotion..

@Nickenzie said:
@thesuicidefox I made a post about how the developers should rework the hook. Basically, when your on the hook for a extend period of time, you'll lose vision of everything. It's complete darkness, you can only see they hook and your survivor so you can't tell if your being camped or not. It makes being on the hook fun and it adds tension to the survivor because you'll never know if your going to be saved or not. Additionally you can't hear the killer's terror radius as well to make it confusing when you get unhooked.

Basically, instead of getting upset at killers for doing their job, make losing more fun!

This doesn't really change anything for what the OP is wishing for..

@thesuicidefox said:

@marshmallowking said:
I saw that, which is why this thread is so silly to me (entertaining but...)

 As far as I can tell op is advocating for no gameplay that is not what they consider to be skilled game play, something I believe to be subjective and only based on a personal emotional response.  

The quantifiable way of winning is either through pips or through killing in the eyes of a large majority of the killer base. that’s what he wants changed based on a personal preference how “fun” is measured for them.  

Any repetitive action or circumstance is boring and less “fun” eventually even any viable changes this thread could come up with would end up stale. These changes would most likely come from nerfs in the meta and buffs in the non meta (something that is already happening like it or not) or a complete overhaul to the game mechanics as a whole. A new mode of gameplay wouldn’t even solve this issue but I advocate for this option (never know when a not so interesting defense building FPS will blow up into a immensely successful BR with building) 

i think both both of our points @Zanfer is that the arguement itself is invalid because it’s unquantifiable, intangible and inconsistent.

You can totally quantify fun. It's called a Likert scale and is used in actual game research. It's been done, just look it up. But you don't even need that for this game really all you need to do is look at the comments after games, or on the forums, or on YT, or on your Steam profile. If people are didn't have fun there is a high chance they will be toxic. Then that attitude carries over to the next game and the next. After a while even games that would have been fun won't be because you are so tilted. And this toxicity grows because of the amount of bullshit each side can do to the other. Take that BS away and people would have less reason to be toxic, which invariably means that people are having more fun with the game. Granted there will be some people that are toxic anyway, but the point here is to reduce the instances of the game itself causing the toxicity. No survivor likes camping and tunneling. No killer likes looping and SWF flashlight abusers. Why you guys fight to keep this garbage is beyond me.

As far as skill you can also quantify that very easily. How fast does the killer catch you? How much map pressure do they apply? Do they keep you all engaged in something other than gen repair? When a killer can just put the first person on a hook and wait, even if the other survivors rush, that killer got a kill with little to no skill. It's honestly not hard to catch 1 person in an entire game. Chase them long enough, without them actually getting away, and you will catch them eventually. Winning itself does not equal skill when you use tactics that are outright easy and highly rewarding. IDK if you are aware of Akuma in the old SF series, but when he originally appeared as a playable character he was so far and above every other character in the game he ended up being banned at tournaments. Pick Akuma and you win, does that mean it takes skill to play him? Not really because he wins by using very easy and highly rewarding tactics. Chasing 1 person and sitting by the hook to kill them takes no skill, or at the very least significantly less skill than chasing/hooking multiple survivors, yet the game rewards the former more than the latter. You can't deny that.

The fact people like you are so ready to accept this kind of nonsense as acceptable behavior is part of the reason it still exists. People like you defending it as if it should be a valid tactic, when all it does is promote toxicity while letting less skilled players get more wins/pips that they rightfully should. Camping/tunneling does not belong in the game, period. You should not be rewarded as killer for these tactics, at least not so much that it supersedes the need to go out and actually do something to earn your rank.

No game worth it's salt as an eSport allows defensive strategies to be superior to offensive ones, because defensive strats are not only much easier to do but ruin the spirit of the game in the process. It's why FPS players hate campers, and why FGC hates turtling, because play defensively is a very easy thing to do and playing against it is a chore, not entertainment. Really go find me any legit eSport game where the superior tactics are defensive. You won't because those games nerfed those tactics so they aren't viable (at least not as a primary strategy). If you get put into a defensive position in any serious competitive game that's usually a sign that you are losing, not winning.

1. You can easily find peoples opinions about a game online like any other game. That doesn't justify how fun it is for people in general. Some people won't like certain games and so will you. You clearly don't like this game as much as you used to, so you have your right to say the game isn't as fun. The game is fun for me cause I play a certain way to were the best outcomes come out of it.

2. Goes on about how killers shouldn't play defensively because it isn't as fun when fun is still subjective to an emotion that can only be experienced by the player it self and no one else. What about the new players that have never played the game.? What about you when you started playing? Clearly you had to play the game to figure out what strategies work better. New players can't and casual players play for their enjoyment.

3. Toxicity is in every game and you don't have to read any post game or anything about the game if you don't want to. Casual players don't care about forums or youtube videos. They care about playing the game once in a while to have fun. Fun is subjective to the person playing.

4. I don't know why you brought esports into the conversation cause DBD is NOT and esports title/game. Games that I like are different from games you would like. Just because it has esports in the title doesn't make it a "more fun" gaming experience..

Apparently I am the only killer to find camping fun.

Also the only survivor who enjoys being camped as long as my teammates know how to work them gens

@thesuicidefox said:
Last 2 days, every game, rank 2 survivor. Killer tunnels the first guy he finds TO DEATH. Then he does it to the next one, and the next one, and so on. I can understand when a killer feels the need to play defensive or secure a kill if they are behind, but this has been right at the start of the EVERY game, when 0 gens are done and Ruin is still up. I've even unhooked someone with Borrowed Time, TOOK A HIT, and the killer stills tunnels the guy on the hook. Mind you I'm injured before BT even procs on the other guy. I'm literally saying to the killer "chase me instead" but no, they flat out ignore me. Sometimes they slug me and don't come back.

This kind of bull ######### needs to stop. Killers need to stop defending this type of behavior. It takes absolutely NO skill but is so insanely rewarding to the killer if survivors are not optimal (which is like 95% of the player base). Then those same killers call "gen rush" when they get that actually is optimal and try to make themselves look like the victims. I'm not saying killers have it easy, I play killer too I know it can be frustrating. But dear God in heaven, CHASE OTHER PEOPLE. Just commit to the chase you coward. Stop hovering around every single hook, stopping hitting someone else to start a chase only to immediately run back to the hook once you get them outside of 30m.

The devs need to balance survivors, but they also need to make it so that killers can not play like absolute trash and get rewarded as much as they do. Killers should be REWARDED for playing offensively, and PUNISHED for playing defensively. Do that and playing killer will not be as frustrating, and then survivors don't have to deal with this kind of bull ######### every game and have no way to stop it.

Hope you don't mind my exception. But Freddy is basically required to tunnel because of his low defensive abilities. For any other killer, just do gens you will be able to do 4 gens within the time your teammate dies assuming 3 survivors r on gens and the teammate struggles but doesn't attempt.

sharks don't go after the 3 other swimmers whenever the 4th swimmer is bleeding.

I think the issue is that people play for different reasons. I've balanced my hours between killer and survivor. As a killer, I dont have to 4k to have fun. I could even get no kills, but 2 hook everybody, and if it felt like a decent challenge, I'll have fun so long as the survivors are good sports. As survivor, it is nice to survive, but I have no problem being altruistic and letting somebody else escape with myself dying in their place. But plenty of killers do not enjoy chases. Several killers, if they don't 4k, feel the game is not fun. And it is their right to feel this way, even if others don't agree with it. Just like survivors don't have fun unless they survive. I understand the desire to tunnel if your goal is to 4k every match. But as a survivor, I don't enjoy being tunneled. It is not fun for me at all. It isn't fun for either side. In terms of killers thinking survivors should just "git gud" and escape or play stealthy to evade the killer and that looping shouldn't exist, the game isn't designed for this. If you go in the corn field and don't use any windows or pallets, every killer in this game can catch the survivor easily. The loops are needed for survivor to put a challenge to the killer. If you don't want the challenge of chasing a survivor, then simply say so. But this game does not encourage survivors to play stealthy, and it certainly isn't designed for survivors to outrun the killer and get away without using obstacles. I fully agree that tunneling is annoying, and although isn't lacking of skill, certainly takes less skill than chasing a healthy survivor and downing before all 4 gens are done. This is the spark of the hunt. If I as killer wanted lambs for the slaughter, I would turn on my xbox and play destroy all humans. But I want a challenge, so I play this game instead. But for those killers who do defend the tunnel, I would hope you do your best to set yourself in the survivor's shoes and see how fun it is when you get unhooked, and the killer runs right by the person who saved you, who would be an easy hit, and instead go right for you, not allowing you to even play the match.

Define winning. There is no specified win conditions of this game for either game. Either you survied or you died. Either entity is disappointed, or you are one of 3 different killer adjectives. Tru3 as a killer main would have known to abandon that loop and chase somebody else. The issue isn't the loop, but that generators need to take longer.

I agree with killer camping and tunneling. I am a survivor main and I go with the mentality that if you are downed, you are dead. Have you ever see an actual human that take a heavy hit from a sharp object and hook on through body and still alive running to waste killer time? I mean, come on, stop crying and actually git gud.