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What are some Plague buffs you guys are thinking of?
As someone who came in the game during Plague's release, I do have a wierd affection toward the priestess. Even if I've put around... 3 bloodpoints into her. (I really should put more into her, but I also wanna get WGLF... And I wasnt here for the 2xBP event, so G R E A T.) Her latest stats don't really hold the poor girl up too well (along with my boi Legion, but I count DC's as a win anyway (^: )
Anyway, let's think up some ideas that would help the Babylonion priestess out a bit!
Comments
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I think the main reason she is not super strong is because there is no downside from being sick with her base vomit. A big part of her kit is getting survivors to cleanse and let her get her damage vomit, but there is not a ton of incentive to cleanse. Base vomit should have some other downside like slower actions or something like that so that survivors HAVE to go cleanse so she can start to snowball.
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- All action speeds and exhaustion cool downs are increased by 50% while infected or broken
- Make iridescent seal permanently infect objects. The more Plague infects them, the faster survivors are infected by them.
- I like your idea of vomit being a built in bloodhound!
- Plague should have fun and devious add ons that enhance her gameplay. Like delayed skill checks while infected. Infection causing exhaustion. Being infected causing deaf and blind effects. Etc.
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Just a quick note on the first one, increasing actions speeds means they'd be doing them faster. Increasing action times is what makes it slower.
For the last one, while it could be interesting, I feel like that would be a little too close to the doctor (you have a status effect that gradually increases and gives you various debuffs/penalties).
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If you are sick you should suffer more penalties. Reduced vault and pallet throw speeds, reduced movement speed slightly, keep broken
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That would be good but O don't think viable. Cause she already have a really good amount of speed.
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- Give survivors the Hindered status whenever they vomit for the duration of the vomiting. This is a small and periodic de-buff to survivors that makes the Plague more of a threat in a chase but not so much that she becomes OP or too oppressive, and it would encourage survivors to cleanse at fountains more.
- Also while a survivor vomits give them a 6m AoE that infects everything within its radius. This allows the sickness to spread throughout the maps less predictably and reduces the workload on the Plague herself. Currently survivors spread the sickness to each other by rescuing an infected survivor, working on a gen with a fully infected survivor or healing a downed infected survivor, otherwise the Plague has to infect them and objects herself all of the time. Adding this will make the sickness spread feel more like a Plague, apply more pressure to the map for her, make the add-on's that increase infection time on objects more noticeable, and help her gain the contagious (25bp) scoring events more often.
Other than that, it would be nice to have her back to her old PTB self where she maintained her 115% movement speed while holding her purge and only slowed down when charging and during cool down. Currently with her slowing down while charging, holding and during cool down, she can't really apply pressure during a chase at loops as the slows give the survivors too much leeway and distance on her every time she attempts to use her power on them.
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In either case, it’s quite clear by the context of the post I meant it as a debuff and not give survivors free speed boosts on top of the free instant heals they do get with her.
To be fair, right now as it currently stands, Plague vomit hardly constitutes as having any debuffs or penalties for survivors (that actually encourages them to seek a well asap and not when it’s convenient for them.)
On a second note, it seems perfectly reasonable to treat Plague similarly to the Doc while keeping them different. Not only are they thematically similar, but tbh they both deal in making survivors sick so it would make sense they would both have nasty effects on survivors. In fact in Plague’s case, it would make even more sense that she should have varying effects on sick survivors ESPECIALLY because unlike Doc, survivors get free heals from her (which is a bit ironic when you think about it.) Billy and Leatherface are similar and yet they are different too.
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I think doing that when you throw up stops any action just by doing generators would be a bit annoying and it could also make you fail the skill tests, it could also make you not throw pallets or jump windows. Only with that I believe that most would be cleaned.
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Just bring her like she was on ptb and alredy we got medium or high tier killer.
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remove the insta heal and being injured/broken should mean something. like a debuff etc.
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Honestly if being fully infected actually meant something she'd be fine, the idea of having Survivors be hindered while they vomit and leave an AOE infection would actually be a super nice change. As it stands though, her height makes looping painful because you have less opportunities to mindgame, and since her sickness has 0 impact on looping...
I know Corrupt Purge is the big selling point, but that's in the hands of Survivors. I'd like to see Vile Purge be made a bit better on it's own, and feel more like a spreading disease.
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Why exactly are we trying to BUFF plague? shes already high tier as is
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If they give her all of that then they'll have to nerf her into a 110% movement speed killer so she wouldn't have too much of an advantage over survivors.
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If apple was made baseline I think that would help her a LOT. The reason no one will cleanse is because it gives her Corrupt, which is crazy OP especially if you are already injured/Broken. If apple was baseline (start 1 pool corrupted) then she could force you to cleanse after you are sick by taking Corrupt. Once survivors start cleansing they have to continue doing it.
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@Peanits You just have to give her the ability to move at full speed while holding in her vomit, like on the ptb. She was plenty strong, but also able to be countered through jukes and good pathing. I actually don't know why ya'll nerfed that other then trying to keep her at a 50% kill rate.
Do ya'll consider a 50% kill rate balanced? (this is an honest question)
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Thantaphobia works well at getting the chain going on the cleanses.
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As someone who doesn't play Survivor anymore & who hasn't played her yet, i think her vomit should stay on the ground and either make Survivors slower or make them slip when walking on it for too long. (Running would decrease the time required to slip, crouch-movement would increase the time required to slip up to infinite.)
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Yes this works. I use both Thana and apple which both force survivors to cleanse. Once they start they have to keep doing it, and as long as survivors are using pools she is a good killer.
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@Peanits This is true and it seems to me that plague, clown and legion seem perfectly balanced
on the paper.
Are these killers' kill rate 50% at red ranks? That's what we want to know.
Usually noob survivors give easy kills to the killers at low ranks boosting their kill rate but when it comes to the red ranks, some killers are downright terrible with 0 map presence like the clown.
If their kill rate is still 50% at red ranks then there is nothing to complain about.
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@Peanits so a 100% kill rate at rank 20 is balanced by a 0% kill rate at rank 1?
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#2 and #4 would be super duper cool. They should emphasize the uniqueness of sickness.
#1 sounds awful and unoriginal and for #3, I don't think Plague needs built in tracking.
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Being forced to use a mediocre perk at best AND Ultra-Rare add-ons to kill proves how weak The Plague is.
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actually, one yellow add-on for the plague usualy nets me d/c's mid game.
The one that gives you a corrupted fountain at the start of the game.
A lot of survivor wont cleanse, so they all run around broken. Once i got them all sick....
Surprise bitches!
The not cleansing thing is a really dumb way of playing against her, she's not Legion.
edit: That being said, she is add-on dependent. if they made it so that a fountain auto-corrupts if all survivors are sick, it would be great.
Since they added that thing that removes all her corrupted pools if they corrupt them all. (cause choosing not to corrupt your power to keep them all broken shouldn't be a viable strat? even though it's the default strat for survivors? This nerf shows that the devs feel that Survivors should be allowed to remove options for the kille,r but the killer isn't allowed to remove options for the survivors. Just look at how mch they argued about the Pigs traps in the new EGC)
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4000 blood points add up though, and unlike brown add ons, yellows are a lot rarer in comparison - and you’re not guaranteed to get apples either.
Every killer, even Freddy, can function without investing in add ons. Add ons for them usually enhances gameplay to their advantage. Plague is the only one that genuinely struggles and her add ons are band aids for an undercooked kit.
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Having all the pools cleanse when they all get used is annoying as hell. Why don't they just do what they did with Hag's traps. Like the hag trap that's been around the longest disappears when another is placed over the limit, why don't they make it to where the pool that's been corrupted the longest gets cleansed when the only clean pool left gets corrupted? That way you don't completely wipe out all the Plague's options and completely open all the survivors' options simultaneously.
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What?!
This is ridiculous! 4k under 3 min should be the balance target!
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It was like that in the PTB. It was ridiculously strong when the killer just didn't pick up the pools.
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Give her the ability to gain corrupt purge at a distance but at the cost of lesser duration.
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Oh, was it? I thought it was set up to where if the last pool got used, there was no more left to use; and it was powerful cause everybody was permanently broken and Thanatophobia was a fixed at full stacks. I never play the ptb for more than a few games so I must have gotten my information wrong.
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Oh. Maybe I'm wrong. I thought it was. Perhaps someone can confirm.
I still think it's too powerful to cleanse only one at a time. It would be more balanced if Plague didn't automatically get her power in that event.
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@Peanits Question. If 3-4k is a win for the Killer. Why is that not explicit?
Like the tutorial makes it clear that winning is tied to Kills. But wouldn't it make more sense to have an actual win message at the match results much like with the Survivors and Escaping/Dying instead of the confusing Entity message that sometimes is displeased in spite of a 4k or whatever?
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The game should tell the killer how many pools are left for survivors to use. A simple QoL thing so you can manage Corrupt a bit better. I always find myself mid-chase about to take a pool and all of a sudden I have Corrupt and all the pool auras disappear. It seems like some maps have more pools than others too, but it's hard to tell how many there really are.
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These ideas are all very good. There should definitely be more incentive to cleanse so that The Plague can snowball.
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Shhhh speaking sense and logic is not welcome in the DBD world of thinking..
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Shhhh STop Making sense! It's not allowed!
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3 changes I think would make a big difference.
1. Sickness is shared with ANY interaction, not just when your broken.
2. When your broken you get a debuff to repairing and vaulting speeds.
3. Speed while holding Vile purge is increased to 115%. Corrupt purge is still slower.
Hope she gets some buff because I really enjoyed playing her before I got back to red ranks and knew she was way too weak.
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Revert the changes from the PTB and give her a build in Thanatophobia if broken. To make it balanced the effect should a bit less then the original Thana. Hindred would be a good alternativ to make her more viable in chases without her Corrupted Purge. Balance whise she is already fine imo she just as some drawbacks and counterplays that can be frustrating. Maybe you should get one Corrupted well when ever everyone is broken
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balance wise, she is fine?...#########?
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Make sickness more stronger
Because everyone can still gen rush and ignore the fountain and THAT make plague useless
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She is not fine. The only people who think she’s fine are survivor players who know that she’s actually not fine and want easy escapes.
The Plague literally has nothing going for her. Freddy has auras AND gen slow down.
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The main problem I have with her is that she is hardcountered if the team decides to not cleanse at all. A lot of timees I faced a plague and none of us cleansed themselves. Most survivors are good at looping anyway and don't heal in the first place so being broken is not an issue but you deny the killer her power and make most of her addons useless. Being infected should slow down survivors speed or do something else to make survivors want to cleanse more.
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Nope, that would show that there's a problem with the way the killer is designed. It would probably be something unintuitive or difficult to new players but easily abused by experienced players if that were the case. The target for balance is 50% in any given match, not overall. Naturally some killers are going to perform better at some ranks than others. Nurse, for example, usually falls well below that 50% target at rank 20 but exceeds it at rank 1. Or the Spirit, for example. The Spirit sits around a 43.65% kill rate at rank 20, but shoots up to 69.25% by rank 1.
Does that mean that the spirit is overpowered, though? Nope. The target is just 50%. A good player can come by and do well with her because they're good at the game. We're just aiming for a 50/50 average, what you do with it beyond that is up to you.
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She has the same issues as Legion, power doesn't do much because just not bothering healing is enough to counter both.
So i'm guessing making that the puke does something the longer you have it on, maybe reduce movespeed the more you puke (would make sense) or make repairs slowers.
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@Peanits The problem is that an average drawn across all ranks (all skill levels) doesn't guarantee something is balanced. That's why we (players) always ask for kill rates to be separated by rank. If newbie survivors get killed too often, or if newbie killers don't kill enough, that skews the average.
Just averaging everything is irrelevant. If you look at the average salary of an Amazon employee, for example, it's in the neighborhood of 100k/year. Does this mean each employee is paid enough? No, because the guys at the top earn many times that amount and heavily skew the data.
You need to hire someone who does statistics so they can work out the medians, figure out the cause of kill rates analyzing more data, and so on. An average drawn from all ranks is just utterly useless if your goal is to balance the game around a majority of trials having 2 kills and 2 escapes. You need to look at medians and standard deviations; not just averages.
Post edited by Orion on5 -
So much this and agreed
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