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When will something be done about SWF rigging
We all know SWF is completely overriding the balance of the game. There's no fun in being a killer against teams that can report your every move so they're always 2-3 steps ahead of you no matter what. Mind-games can't beat a Discord server.
Seriously, this game has enough problems with rendering one half of the gameplay into a bloodpoints-pinata for people who want to rig the game. The SWF players know they're rigging the game so they hide themselves offline or set their profiles to private, only to say "Lol git gud" at the end. It takes 30-40 minutes to get a single solo-survivors game as killer irrespective of rank now.
SWF will quit to deny you points, because they know they'll rig the next game and get their rank back (and it doesn't affect the rest of them), they report what hooks you go to, if you're even within sight of a hooked survivor, and we just end up in a position where playing Killer is no longer fun at all.
We can't just change killer to a more pro-SWF killer because our killer ranks are the same so we just get even crappier games that we have no perks for, and we can't grind the killers up via other killers because we're earning so few bloodpoints due to SWF rigging games to specifically crap on killers. For the love of god at least let us opt out of SWF lobbies, because they are a critical flaw in the game.
Devs ignore the steam suggestions (Even though it's more active than this feedback forum), so seriously... when is this going to even start to get fixed? Or is it another "We're looking into it" like how 3 years later we still get frozen loading screens...
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Need to delete SWF from game. Only solo.Survivors and killers.Full random,
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I understand why they have it in, removing it would hurt the playerbase, but seriously it's so broken / unbalanced due to the advantages it confers. We're getting spammed by licensed DLC, premium currency stores on top of that, and these things just seem to get 100% ignored no matter what. If it's going to be so aggressively monetized, at least be fixing it.
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Nope!I think if delete SWF then toxic players will be not toxic and survivors switch on brains and will think "how go out"
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There are still toxic solo survivors who will stand at a 99% generator just to dab on you when you pop up and watch them insta-finish it. Toxicity can be dealt with via tunnelling. SWF is like 99% of the game now though. It's not that it exists, it's that it's ruining the balance. You could give me double bloodpoints and no-deranks for playing with SWF and I still wouldn't choose to do it because it's taken all the fun out of the game.
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@UkilledLegion Deleting SWF would kill the game. As much as I find SWF annoying, this isn’t it.
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Agreed, but they desperately need to do something to alleviate the fact that it derails the gamebalance for killers. SWF has just become a way to guarantee you're farming bloodpoints, whilst killers get minimal bloodpoints, typically derank or at least can't rank up, and watch game after game after game be the same old "They know what I'm doing at all times and thus they can't be countered"
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@Acesthetiic maybe-maybe but need fixing use voice programs.Need to equate voice programs >exploit.Voice programs are big problem in this game.
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They can't stop discord etc being used, but they need to confer significant gameplay changes to the killer to actually even it out. Faster movement buffs in chases, longer generator times, faster generator decay, make it take more than 1 frame of gametime to stop generator decay, if one SWF guy quits to deny you score, derank the entire SWF team for each one of them that quits.
Tbh blinding survivors and making them unable to hear terror radius when on the hook would be such an immense change too, though it won't stop the rest of the SWF problems.
Honestly you could literally put 2 killers in SWF games and I think that might balance it legitimately, but in terms of keeping 1 killer around, they need to be significantly more powerful against SWF. Killers tend to tear solo survivors apart, as intended, but SWF teams just bypass all intended balance and their efficiency skyrockets to a point that just being a good killer isn't going to change things at all.
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XD I always play worse with my friends, because I always want to protect them and end up making stupid mistakes. With Randoms I'm less attached, and for some reason that helps me play better. ^.^ I've also been in games when they accused us of being in groups when we weren't. It's just how well they play or not. Personally I think killers should be allowed to play in groups too. XD That would be so awesome, way better than the end game.
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Lol anyone up for a KWF? I made a post about a possible new play mode where two killers could play together before you judge the idea search for collision
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o.o What does KWF mean? OH Oh! Killer with Friends? ^.^ I would totally play that, but as a survivor. :)
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You should check my idea out
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This wouldn't do anything. People will just do what they did before SWF, and just queue up at the same time till they get in each others lobbies.
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https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/63030/new-game-mode-collision#latest this is the link to the collision game mode thread if anyone would like to read
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Removing SWF or voice chat is completely pointless. Remove SWF and people just dodge until they get their friends, try to block voice chat and... STEAM ITSELF has voice chat integrated, so good luck with that.
As has been said a million times - buff info for solo survivors, buff killers that need it accordingly. I wouldn't mind BP bonuses or anything like that as it doesn't directly impact gameplay though.
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For obvious reason the "optimal" route would be to put all advantages of swf into the basekit of survivors and then buff killers / nerf survivors accordingly.
There are obviously problems with this route.
- The amount of informations provided to survivors via auras, ping-tools etc will kill immersion and boost survivors a lot. Every piece of info the game provides is info the swf does NOT need to think about.
- Survivor complains will skyrocket if survivor nerf / killer buffs are too much for the now information boosted noobs
- Killer complains will skyrocket if the compensation for the information (aforementioned buffs and nerfs) is not enough
- The devs tend to do everything in baby steps and mostly one thing at a time. Killers fear that it might take more than 6months after the survivor information boost until the killer buffs even get concepts.
Im not talking changes to single perks, im talking nerfs to basic mechanisms like hit-sprint or killer fov. Gamechanging variables need to be changed as compensation for those swf-advantages.
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There's a very simple and even a fun solution to this that many not only see as a compromise, but as a novelty feature: introduce 2 killer games specifically for swf mode.
So swf survivors can only match up with swf killers, so a separate lobby for them.
And the amount of survivors from 4 to 10 (trust me, 8 is too low, even for swf).
Idk about gens, but devs will figure it out.
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What is this thread...
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To be honest: Most SWF aren't that good. I've played with friends and they ignored so many things like "Don't do that gen here or you'll split the map" and what did they do? Right, that gen and BOOM Killer has now 4 gen in one spot. Just one example. As a Killer I see this happen a lot. Or save unhooks because you moved out of their terror radius. Pretty funny when you play Spirit with M&A and you're not in chase: 16m terror radius -> lets unhook and so on.
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@jESP NEED to try block voice or delete SWF and watch what will happen
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Then we will delete Hooks too. theyre gamebreaking.
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@MegsAreEvil WHY?
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Same reason you wanna SWF deleted.
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It's understandable why SWF is in. It encourages more player activity by having friends, but I don't think it's an unfair statement that it overrides the intended game balance to a significant degree.
You can mind-game like a pro, you can pick killers that are great for quick chases, you can take Hex:Ruin since it's critical meta, but you're still not going to get past discord-teams telling each other where you're going after a hook, what generators to finish if you chase them off it, and so many other issues that arise from the communication that the game otherwise does not allow.
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I'm with you 100%. SWF groups have utterly killed this game for me.
Perfect example: decided to play a quick Doctor match. By the time I managed to walk to the furthest generator it was at 90% complete. I get into a chase and next thing I know, somehow, the survivors know where I'm gonna be or what I'm gonna do the entire game. By the time the last gen was done, I had hooked maybe 2 people two times? I just turned the game off hopefully denying THEM pointd for once. I actually jusy uninstalled it bc the fun to annoyance ratio is far too out of wack for me... 2 years of hardcore grinding down the drain.
I'm just completely sick of this bs game and how the devs just keep favoring survivors and nerfing killers. It's no longer fun to play killer imo... dealing with swf, 28938663893 pallets every map, slower vault speed (whyyyyyyy), slower movement speed, 7389976552 survivor crutch perks, entire teams spawning on a generator without so muchnas an offering in EVERY game now... just f it.
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@Carnage845 I agree, the developers have made the game completely in favor of the survivors.And the system grades them easier.I think it's time for the developers to make a balance towards the killer because it survival-HORROR. Now its only circus.
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Imo a good start would be 50% faster bloodlust, a 0.1 speed increase to all killers if it's SWF, and prevent deranking for killer if they're gonna go up against rigged teams. That would at least be a step in the right direction.
If people wanna play SWF, they should expect the increased challenge to work both ways.
The game is in a state where it's better to DERANK as a killer because at least it gives you a tiny chance of not being against SWF. The devs have made the game anti-solo and anti-killer.
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@Traslogan I agree bloodlust work very bad<lol Legion's moonwalker fixed and Legion can't see scale :D but if survivor go away from ur visibility line>bloodlust immideately stop :D Where is equity? :D
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Ekhm... Not EVERY swf are toxic tryhards. Not all of them even use comms.
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I sometimes play SWF with a friend, and very rarely with one or two more. No comms, and we play like complete potatoes. I do at least, she not so much. But at any rate, I see a lot of SWF far from the "toxic genrushing fully organized SWAT team" type, when I'm playing killer. Sure, people using comms have an unfair advantage, but it's hardly gamebreaking.
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Whilst I agree that not all SWF are a problem, I disagree that it's not gamebreaking. Having returned to DBD in the past month or two, I worked my way to Rank 11 Killer and then realized I simply cannot rank up anymore. It's not like I suddenly got pros in my game, I suddenly got nothing but communicating-SWF teams.
You can tell they know it's a problem because they're setting themselves to offline on steam, hiding their friends lists, trying to ensure the killer won't realize it's rigged inside the 55 seconds they have before game-start. The communicating-SWF teams are abundant imo, not few and far between.
You get situations where it's clear they override the intended game balance, for example:
SWF Survivor: Your team tells you where the killer is upon spotting them, you know where they are going and who their target is, and if your friend gets chased off of a nearly-complete generator, you get asked to come and get it whilst they lead the killer away from nearly-complete generators specifically because they know they can call someone to come do it (And you wouldn't know it was almost done if you were a solo survivor).
SWF Survivor: You get hooked, so you tell your team if the killer is camping, orbiting, and if he goes for a specific generator, you tell that person to run away when the killer is still 80m out, meanwhile telling someone else to specifically come get you now that the killer is definitely distracted.
People say "oh but I don't see comms-SWF very often.", so that's great but here I find them 99% of the time. I barely keep rank above 15 simply because it's that tough to get no-comms SWF or solo survivors. The strongest argument I've seen against dealing with SWF is "lol git gud" tbh
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Not every SWF is gamebreaking, but when a whole portion of the game devoted to misinformation and obstacles to teamwork and cooperation can be circumnavigated, it's not the best thing for the health and heart of the original game. It becomes something else:
Rage and ridicule simulator.
...But that's only one possibility.
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Didn't the original have voice chat too? They took that out because of toxicity.
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4 man SWF only has a 10% higher average survival rate than solo and make up only about 5% of games.
Its not a problem. If you get destroyed by a team it's not because they're SWF it's because they're good at the game. It happens sometimes, and sometimes you get an SWF thats good at the game.
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My current SWF mate and I noticeably break the game's balance, and there's just two of us. When one of us dies, we can inform the other one about everything the other survivors are doing (assuming any remain, obviously). It's almost like stream sniping, except you do it to every single survivor.
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I can't speak for every other player, but it's obvious as hell that I get SWF. I check profiles for friends before matches start. Some hide it, but usually there's at least 1 who has all 3 other survivors as offline friends on their friends list.
Any rage or joking aside, I legitimately see at least 90%+ of my games be SWF here in the UK, irrespective of timezone (I play peak evenings and into the NA timezones). Not every SWF team is 4000-hour players who are just there to annoy a killer and all of them follow you and bodyblock at all times (or they all go flashlight just to get insta-stuns if you pick one up), but there are still tons and tons of SWF that are doing what I've mentioned above where they override any balance that is left in DBD.
I don't see what's unfair about simply saying that if one side gets to up the challenge, the other side should be able to as well.
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@ZombieGirlORV KWF -
- 4 Killers
- 16 Survivors
- 4x as many hooks, 4 times as many generators, chests and exit gates
- Zero hatches!
- 4x the map size!
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Another day, another time where I hit rank 12 and the game becomes literally 100% SWF, teams that gaurantee you derank no matter what you do.
Seriously, someone give me another reason other than "git gud" for dealing with SWF. You can't beat the god damn communication advantage. Devs are clearly just ignoring the issue, and I can honestly say 99% of my games are SWF now, so whatever stats are being touted are pure BS.
I bet it's just gonna be permanently ignored just like the steam suggestions board they put up is though.
There is zero fun to watching teams rig the entire game against you, even if you can keep your rank. Why do you expect us to keep shilling out for your DLC and cosmetic spam when you can't even make the base game work.
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I say there should be a kill with your friends as well. That way the option is there for both players. Then SWF can go up against KWF and it'll be even an even playing field. ^.^
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Nah they need to just let us opt out. If what they say is true and there's still tons of solo survivors, then opting out should stop me getting guaranteed SWF.
It's brokenly unfair to play against SWF, they always know where you are, where you're going, and always knowing info 30s earlier than they should. They need to buff killers in SWF, deny deranking during SWF, derank SWF if any of them d/c (Since they know they're gonna keep rigging games so they happily d/c).
You could give me triple bloodpoints for going against SWF and I still wouldn't because it simply isn't fun to watch the game be rigged.
If what the devs say is true and SWF is not that common and somehow the UK is just SWF-plaza, then there should be no problem letting us opt out of it, since surely there are countless other survivors to match up with...
Post edited by Traslogan on0 -
"We all know SWF is completely overriding the balance of the game. There's no fun in being a killer against teams that can report your every move so they're always 2-3 steps ahead of you no matter what. Mind-games can't beat a Discord server."
Survive With Friends isn't unbalanced because of game design.
The Survive With Friends game mode can be/is being abused by players who choose to use live (real time) voice communication programs. You've given an example of one such program (Discord). Discord and similar programs could be removed from the allowed programs list (whitelist) on Easy Anti-Cheat. When it comes to player population, I feel that removing voice communication programs would do more harm than good. For example, just because you're using a voice communication program, it doesn't mean you're using that program to discuss Dead by Daylight.
In my opinion, a much less drastic change, would be a change to how players spectate other players. Watching/Spectating other survivors, after you've been sacrificed or killed, needs to have a delay added. They delay would keep any information gathered and shared (over a voice communication program) from being up-to-date or reliable information.
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@List_of_concerns not agree!!!Voice programs its easy and boring for survivors and very hard for killers.Hard game killer playing SWF team with hard emblem's system.idk why killer's system difficult than survivors.
Now need hard nerves that to resist SWF but SWF not need hard nerves that to resist to killer.
Unfairly.
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@Traslogon new killer players will mad soon
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p.s. if u in discord talking about other things u can do this on facebook
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if you ban one, they just find another. Eventually you would have teams using steam voice chat on a steam game.
The bare minimum they could do is let us opt out of SWF. If it really is so rare, just let us opt out. Worry about incentivizing its ludicrous gameplay for killers after that quickfix.
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32 games in the past 2 days, 25 4-man SWF, 3 3-man SWF, rest were solo or duo.
I would honestly question the devs statistics about SWF frequency. Again, if it's true then let us opt out and it won't affect anything but at least some of us can enjoy playing killer.
Not that they read feedback forums anyway, their steam suggestions proves that every day it's still up.
You're literally punishing killers for daring to even try to play the game now thanks to SWF.
Post edited by Traslogan on0 -
"if you ban one, they just find another. Eventually you would have teams using steam voice chat on a steam game."
You're probably right when it comes to banning voice communication programs. Eventually, players interested in abusing Survive With Friends would probably resort to using the integrated Steam Voice if it were the only voice comm still allowed.
"The bare minimum they could do is let us opt out of SWF. If it really is so rare, just let us opt out. Worry about incentivizing its ludicrous gameplay for killers after that quickfix."
I'm not sure that giving players an option to opt out of playing against a Survive With Friends group would be considered a bare minimum change. I think that change would be one of their final considerations, if not the final consideration. Also, I don't think redirecting killer players away from Survive With Friends groups, provided they can even confirm whether or not voice comms are being used, would be considered a quick fix. I don't know much about networking. So, I can't be sure.
Keep in mind, you're asking BHVR to essentially abandon a percentage of their players, no matter how big or small that percentage may be. If Survive With Friends queue times were to dramatically increase because of an opt out system implemented by BHVR, I feel like that would result in one of two outcomes. In the first scenario, the majority of those players would quit playing and supporting Dead by Daylight. In the second scenario, those players would stick around and complain for as long as their interest in reversing that change persists. Once their interest dwindles or they feel ignored, they would join those players from first scenario. They would quit too.
I'd like to add that removing the Survive With Friends game mode would be very similar to, if not exactly the same as, banning or removing a killer and/or survivor. Survive With Friends is a unique way to play Dead by Daylight. Playing as different killers and survivors are also unique ways to play Dead by Daylight. If your favorite way to play Dead by Daylight is removed, are you more likely to play a different way or to quit playing entirely? I really want to know the answer to this question. It's not intended to be rhetorical.
If I were a developer for Dead by Daylight, I'd be approaching an opt out system with extreme caution. Less players equals less opportunity for income and growth. If I were them, I wouldn't be wishing for less opportunities for growth on a game I currently play or support. Why would they willingly harm a project, without careful consideration and implementation, by which they are employed?
"Not that they read feedback forums anyway..."
I don't know how often you check your profile, but if it check right now, you'd see that BHVR has read this post (in the Balance Feedback category).
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The only reason I'm here is because their steam suggestions( which is more active than this forum) is 100% ignored. They get more feedback there than anywhere else and it is 100% ignored, no one gets any responses at all. It looks like it was put up to draw flak. And the in-game match-review is pointless since there's no criteria for why you thought a game was good or bad, so once again it just looks like it draws flak.
Well if opting out of SWF isn't a good fix, tell me what is. All I know is that I literally, LITERALLY, have basically 98% guaranteed SWF games. I can't learn any new killers because I just end up going against rank 8-10 SWF and there's no non-ranked / practise for me to learn anything else. There is no incentive for going against SWF. It detracts from the fun, the excessively increased challenge is present before you're high-ranking, and you're barely able to do anything other than get 1-2 kills and derank because they popped all the gens anyway.
All I see is pure SWF, and time after time after time it is teams clearly rigging the game with communication and the killer isn't even given the grace of being allowed to not derank when the tables are flipped beyond compare. There's no fun left in this SWF environment. I would understand if i was going up against top-rank pros and that was where the challenge was, but you can't even learn the game now because of the SWF.
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"The only reason I'm here is because their steam suggestions( which is more active than this forum) is 100% ignored. They get more feedback there than anywhere else and it is 100% ignored, no one gets any responses at all. It looks like it was put up to draw flak. And the in-game match-review is pointless since there's no criteria for why you thought a game was good or bad, so once again it just looks like it draws flak."
If this is true, I'm truly sorry to anyone who feels their Steam suggestion(s) have been ignored. If you still frequent the steam suggestions area, I would like to encourage you post any of your future feedback on the official Dead by Daylight forums. I'd also like you to encourage others to do the same. We can't have discussions like these if we never receive any replies to our posts, comments, or feedback. I don't want anyone's post to be 100% ignored.
"Well if opting out of SWF isn't a good fix, tell me what is. I can't learn any new killers because I just end up going against rank 8-10 SWF and there's no non-ranked / practise for me to learn anything else."
I don't know how to fix Survive With Friends in a way that would prevent voice comms from allowing players to gain an advantage. In my opinion, one of the better ideas I've had, is to add a delay to what spectating players see. If there was a delay, the information that they would be sharing over voice comms wouldn't match up with what was currently happening for the survivors that are still alive. The first idea I had wouldn't work because, like you said, players would find another voice comm and use that as a loophole.
I think you're on to something here, though. I really like your ideas to add either a more in-depth practice mode (aside from the short tutorials) or even an unranked mode. Kill Your Friends could be used as a practice mode, but that would require five players (that are friends or friends of friends on steam) to play like the current ranked mode is being played. BHVR would just have to be careful with how many modes exist because you can't play multiple modes at the same time. Since you can't be in two matches at the same time, additional modes would decrease player population in all the other modes.
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Make it where the more survivors are in a party the less pallets a map has, lol.
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