The Emblem System Serves Absolutely No Purpose

By the game's logic, it means that they were boosted survivors and were higher than their alleged skill level. Yeh, it makes no sense to me.

Imagine playing a Killer game where all of the Survivors are AFK.

You can't get much deviousness because they all die on first hook

You can't get Malicious because they don't heal

You can't get chaser because they don't run

You can only get gate keeper

Survivors have much better, but they still have this problem with benevolence. Since an AFK Killer won't hit survivors and thus they can't get points for healing.

The reason I bring of AFK survivors/killers is because an opponent that isn't playing presents you with the greatest skillgap you can possibly get without someone griefing. And thus you should be able to easily double pip against these survivors/killers

Except you can't, because these emblems first require you to get the chance to attempt them, and that doesn't always happen if the other player isn't good enough.

Basically, any ranking system that EVER requires you to play sub-optimally is automatically a bad ranking system.

That's actually why I think that even having a camping punishment like that is a bad idea. Because encouraging healthy gameplay is not the job of the ranking system. And trying to force it means that in the event that it is optimal to camp, the emblems won't reflect that being smart play even when it is.

Devour Hope is not the sole reason the emblem system doesn't work. Ever since the new emblem changes were implemented it has been impossible too rank up on either side. IMO the emblem changes should be reverted till testing can be done on it so it can be fixed.

If there is anything I hope we can say we have learned from this system its this:

The emblem system looks at how you did what you did, instead of just looking at what you accomplished.

In otherwords:

The system right now looks at things like how many times you hooked people and hit people and stuff. But those aren't the things you are trying to accomplish. It should be tracking things like sacrafice states and health states. Or better yet, the Kills themselves since that's only thing that can objectively be stated to always be what a Good killer will do (since by definition a good Killer is good at killing)

Same for survivors. It shouldn't care about healing others for example because there are a lot of situations where healing someone hurts your odds of survival. Losing pips because you did the smart thing and left isn't just morally wrong, but factually wrong since what you did isn't a misplay.

@miaasma I know that what you described is what happens. I'm saying that it shouldn't be.

Lets say you match 4 rank 10's with a rank 10 killer.

All 5 players had to play well enough to at the very least get to rank 10, by definition.

The Killer easily and quickly downs and hooks all 4 survivor's at once thus 1 hooking them.

What this means is that the Killer was able to utterly crush survivors who were able to get to rank 10 in the first place. If they were evenly matched then that would mean they are in the right rank, however that's not what happened. The explanation for this is that the Killer is better than the Survivors he just faced, and since those survivors are rank 10 that by definition means he's better than rank 10 survivors. And that the Survivors are worst than a rank 10 Killer for the same reason.

Of course that doesn't mean their better than ALL rank 10 survivors/killers, hence needing more than just 1 or 2 pips in order to rank up.

Let's put it this way:

Suppose the best DBD player in the world started playing the game on a new account tomorrow. He's amazing at being a Killer and will play perfectly to optimize his kill rate, never missing nurse blinks always making correct predictions with spirit ect.

Since he's the best Killer in the game, but he still needs to start at rank 20 cuz it's a new account that doesn't know he's the best killer yet he is initially being matched with rank 20's.

Since rank 20's are incompetent noobs for the most part he easily is able to destroy all 4 of them no problem, and why wouldn't he? We just matched the best player ever against people who just bought the game and are probably don't even know the controls yet.

Now, pop quiz:

Should the Killer pip? I mean you did just say that the point of the ranking system is:

"to reward people for winning games that are more evenly matched and punish people for losing games horribly."

And since these matches were NOT evenly matched then clearly no pip for the Killer, should have known' better than to be significantly better than their opponents.

Using bloodpoints was even worse. You could farm with the Killer in order to have everyone double pip which means you don't have an actual competition

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/56320/bring-back-victory-cubes#latest

@NuclearBurrito so with the current system, you can't farm anymore?

@miaasma

You kinda just proved my point with the Zubatlel, since as you said yourself in order to pip all the way he had to STOP playing optimally. With a proper ranking system you should never under any circumstances have to do that.

Hypothetically if camping was the best strategy in the game (it's not) then Killer's who camp should eventually end up being in the best ranks due to using the best strategy and thus being the best Killers (due to the fact that a Killer using a worse strategy will by definition not do as well as a Killer who is the same in every way except with a better strategy)

Since the final arbiter of a Strategies effectiveness is it's results. Or in other words good strategies are good if and only if they actually work. That means the only fair way you can judge such a strategy is by those results.

Since a camping leatherface is a strategy. And a 4k is a highly favorable result. An insidious camping leatherface who 4k's should pip. You could argue that the survivor's were just bad and that good survivors would punish the strategy, but guess what! You don't actually know that for sure. Or rather, you don't until such a survivor comes along and implements a counter strategy (which in this case is gen rush). Once this leatherface hits the rank where the counter strategy is being used he will start being crushed back down 1 rank and then be stuck at that rank until he gets a strategy that beats the survivors strategy. Until he does he is at the proper rank since whenever he ends up in the higher rank he is quickly depipped back down.

However if instead you arbitrarily make it so the leatherface doesn't pip despite having a strategy that works against survivors of his rank, what does that mean for the rank right above him? You would expect those survivors to be a bit better than the rank below them but not by much. The point being that those survivors will do well but still lose.

For demonstration purposes let's say for the average survivor in each rank:

12 = Is crushed by a campers

and

10 = Loses to campers but only after a long struggle

and finally

8 = Wins against campers

Remember that the strategy is arbitrary and I'm only using camping to hammer that home. The importance is the effectiveness

The Leatherface here starts at low ranks, if he's at something like 12 then he's not going to pip since he crushed them too hard so "clearly the survivors were in the wrong rank".

The problem is that all of the other survivors are ALSO getting crushed by the same strategy over multiple games. How many games does someone need to win before it becomes clear that it's not a fluke?

By the way with the current pipping system (not emblem system, just the system that converts pips into ranks) it's 5 games in a row with single pips or 3 with double pips.

Anyways so the Leatherface at a rank where survivors are decimated by his strategy (again, the fact that it's cheese isn't something you can reliably quantify) isn't pipping.

However, if the Leatherface were to instead go against the rank 10's he would pip no problem since they put up a fight. He would eventually stabilize at rank 9 since rank 8's cause him to depip.

As for using Mori's causing you to pip. YES! THAT TOO! BECAUSE IT WORKS! Even though it's OP? YES! OP THINGS ARE OP BECAUSE THEY WORK!

You know what the solution to a thing being OP is? Nerfing the OP thing. If mori's give Killers an easy win (and they do) then mori's should be nerfed.

Taking shortcuts in order to win is exactly what you would expect someone who's good at the game to do. Someone who's bad at the game would also do it sure, but a good player will do it better. And the fact that bad players can do it is what makes it a balance issue in the first place. However that's a balancing thing, NOT something that the ranking system is supposed to deal with.

Again. The final arbiter of skill is results. If one player gets good results from their strategy then they should pip. End of story. Even if it isn't harder it's still better.

@Tsulan with the current system you can't BOTH farm.

The Killer farming is still at the expense of the Survivors and vice versa.

That being said neither side should have to farm with an ideal ranking system.

I would like to point out that using wins and losses is the ranking system that nearly every game in existence uses and works great.