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spirit is perfect, does she really need any changes/nerfs?
i see many post about people complaining about spirit or saying things about spirit, i'd like to know what kind of changes you guys want or complain about.
Comments
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I see your point, but spirit is easier to counter than nurse, since nurse can quickly get close to you again, while spirit you have to wait.
And if you ######### up you are a M1 killer with 110% speed, and yes a good spirit can be as deadly as nurse, but at least with spirit it takes more time to down everyone than nurse, also nurse isn't affected by iron will, spirit extremely is.
You have to do the opposite of what you should do, once a guy was looping the shack and i used my power expecting him to reach the window (i was close to him) and he intead didnt go inside the shack and kept going foward, now i had to wait and chase him with 110% also if you have good distance and windows you can save yourself from her for a while, unlike nurse.
Spirit is definetly the second best killer in the game, but you can counter her more than nurse if you do the right things.
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most people won't agree with this but something needs to be done for spirit to have counterplay in any survivor-killer interaction
she's currently the only killer who can "outplay" a survivor by just taking their hands off their keyboard
some audio/visual cue for when she's using her power would be fair; survivors would still not know where you are while phasing (so they'd have to figure out which side of a loop you're coming from), but they'd at least know to react in some way. it'd actually sort of make it a mindgame, instead of the guessing game it currently is
it'll probably never happen though so don't worry
edit: damn someone else said the keyboard thing before me
but yeah spirit doesn't have any real counterplay, just hope the spirit messes up
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sairek is right. good or bad, your skill as a survivor is irrelevant when facing a spirit. your best bet is to hope they ######### up. just like in the scenario you described, it was your misplay of not tracking scratch marks or listening for him, not his play of going to the outside part shack. also summarizing her as a worse nurse (that's what it looks like you're describing her as to me anyways) is honestly just a complement to her strength and annoyance
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As a spirit main she needs tweaks because of the scenario where it becomes a coinflip for the survivor where no skill is involved on either side and it's just plain luck.
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You need to track and hear, if you can do any of the 2, you won't do anything with her, i saw so many bad spirits who were only using her power to get closer since they didn't know how to use it well, not because a killer in the right hand is really strong it means it have to be changed,
She need tracking and sound to be extremely efficient, if the survivor use iron will you only have tracking, which makes it really more difficult, a single perk can ######### you up, i am a spirit main too and i can't help but have extreme fun when playing her and i know what her weaknesses are, iron will is definetly the most efficient one.
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Prayer beads.
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Prayer Beads aren't perfect at all. They should only reduce the range of sound, not completely silence the phase walk.
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The blanket statement that these killers don't have counters being taken seriously is scary to me, like I think we should probably say with certain addons they are much stronger than most killers with there best addons. At base i believe nurse and spirit have plenty of counter play imo even with yellows or greens in spirit's case. If we are talking red ranks shouln't dead hard and iron will be meta to counter these strong killer anyway cause they are so common there if we are talking low ranks, those guys will die to wraith or any loopable killer anyway.
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Tracking and hearing isn't that hard. Especially with the equipment available to you. Who knows the spirit you are facing against could be using Military grade head phones that hears the slightest amount of movement. a perk should never be the answer to counterplay.
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Changes: Her phase doesn't lose chase. Her emblems suffer from it. She needs a vault animation. It is downright unfair when you think she is phasing for her to hit you at the other side of the vault. As well as nothing to note she has begun phasing. She is already invisible that is enough mind-game potential.
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Almost all killers have to use ruin or pgtw to counter survivors doing gens too fast, i know spirit is crazy with beads but i'd rather have other killers be made better first before just making one of the better killers worse cause they make you feel like you're the power role in the asymmetrical game while playing her
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misread your post initially
totally agree, this is what they were on release
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People who want spirit to be change are the people who don't want another viable killer cause of how good she is or that don't know how to play against her. With sounds somewhat fix, she is way better then before and people don't like how good she is because they don't know how to counter her or don't even bother to come up with a counter
You have ears, use them
Stop running if she is coming at you in her power or run backwards and that's common sense for her
don't waste a pallet if you don't know if she is using her power or not and/or don't stick around a loop
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People keep repeating this "XYZ doesn't have counterplay". Legion, Nurse, Spirit...
They all have counterplay. Not everyone can pull it off, but the fact that YOU can't do something doesn't mean it's impossible.
As for playing against Spirit being a coin flip... to some extent, sure. About half of any Dbd match is luck based. I can't see the problem here.
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This sums up perfectly about people who want spirit nerfed.
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Is it just me or does she no longer move the grass or scare crows when phasing? Freddy seems the same way.
If that is so, the only two things I would change is no collision with survivors while phasing...and those damned prayer beads.
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Luck is very much a factor for survivors and the killers that have to deal with loops and tiles that have no mind game. I'm sure the survivor is having plenty of fun looping a trapper at thomson's house while the trapper is just going through pallet after pallet bored silly while the gens fly by. I think this kind of game one side will just not have fun sometimes cause multiplayer games can be like that.
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this sums up my thoughts as well
i like that BHVR released a strong killer, i just wish they knew how to release a killer that was both strong but also beatable through gameplay without just hoping they mess up like spirit or nurse
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Only change I would make is Prayer beads. It's way too strong an addon for how strong of a killer she is. Same thing with Omega Blink Nurse, just way too strong. Otherwise she is perfectly balanced. Game needs more killers on par with Nurse and Spirit, so red ranks can be fun.
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majority of killers have to capitalize on survivor mistakes while they chase them while the other 3 are doing gens and if the survivor plays perfectly you don't get your down cause they played all the loops right. If all survivors play that way it's gg and even if they do mess up they still have 3 hooks before they are out of the game. Why cant that be reversed sometimes then, when a mistake by a killer can lead to a lose? Lets also not pretend insta heals and other powerful survivor items arent in the game that can undo a good play the killer has done. This game has to many factors to consider.
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Yeah let's remove nurses blinks too...
That's what makes her strong...
At least we have got 3 viable killers for late game. You really want to make them 2?
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this isn't really true because mechanics like bloodlust exist but even if it was true no survivor ever plays perfectly and plenty of loops are mindgameable
of course, very strong things exist on the survivors' side, and those things do need addressing. i don't think that invalides people's problems with spirit
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Jesus, of course Spirit has counterplay. Prediction of her movements is the biggest one. The whole "just standing still is a coinflip of a free hit" only works if you think your only options are plant your ass against the pallet waiting, or vault it. LEAVE THE LOOP and she has to waste time going around it and then working out where you went. Not to mention it leaves the pallet as an unbroken barrier for later which is a pain as killer.
I know how this sounds, but the killer is MEANT to down you at some point. You aren't intended to loop the killer for 5 gens just because pallets exist. To say Spirit doesn't have counterplay is just false, the fact is you have options but a killer's power should always be POWER, not just a quirky ability that could favour either side.
Prayer Beads 100% should be completely reworked. I don't care what into, but they're disgusting as is, and this comes from someone who just farmed "Silent Approach" with nothing but Prayer Beads Spirit. It's simply unreasonable to expect reaction to them, and it's unbalanced to be able to grab people off gens and have them on the way to the hook before anybody's even seen which killer it is. Other stealth killers are slow and have audio cues to do the same, even with add ons.
Complaining that "X killer has no counterplay!!!" is what left us with Legion dumpstered and got Plague and Ghostface released with absolute garbage controlled completely by the survivor side because the devs have lost sight of what ORGANIC counterplay is. Legion definitely needed a nerf, but Spirit is one of the VERY few decently balanced killers, don't pull this "No CoUnTeRpLaY" nonsense to kill off the rest of the killer cast.
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leaving the loop while she stands still and watches you leave the loop doesn't work any better than any of your other options, especially since she can hear you. we're talking about her standing still, not the survivor. the survivor has no good option at a loop because they have no indication of where the spirit is going or whether she's even using her power. if they stay at the loop, she watches them until using her power. if they leave the loop, she watches them until using her power. that's the coinflip
i certainly don't want to be able to loop a killer for 5 generators but i do want to have some form of possible counterplay when i'm interacting with the killer and when i'm against spirit (and nurse, to a lesser degree) the counterplay consists of "hope she screws up tracking me" as i move unpredictably, which isn't real counterplay since it's contingent on the killer screwing up. a good spirit or nurse won't fall for the same thing more than once and won't screw up tracking you, making interactions with them very short
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so why not address those things, other killers and maps before saying nerf one of the viable killers. If a killer is using bloodlust with how slow it builds up to get the down they lost that game.
I disagree with the statement that plenty of loops are mindgameable when going against red ranks. No killer can play perfectly either and if they make too many mistakes they can lose while the survivor goes on a hook 3 times for the 4 of them and thats if the killer is being nice enough not to camp and tunnel and slug.
Can we look at everything before pinpointing one thing that we don't like saying change it when the game isn't very balanced anyway althought it's better than it ever was.
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Get rid of prayer beads there shes fine now
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Got it. If a killer's power actually helps them get a down they need to be nerfed.
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I'm just gonna say I think some people are on the forums more than they are playing the game.
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i didn't really say "nerf" so much as i said "make fair". she'd still be extremely strong if the suggestions made in this thread were added
the efficiency (or lack thereof) of bloodlust doesn't take away from the fact that it makes safer loops unsafe and removes the need to use your brain at a loop. something being poor strategy doesn't mean it doesn't suck to go against, and bloodlust will hopefully be phased out of the game once maps get reworked. but none of this really has anything to do with people's valid problems with spirit's design, and there being dumb things on the survivors' side doesn't invalidate problems with certain killers
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if that's what you gleaned from my post then you came here to argue in bad faith. a killer's power helping them to down a survivor is fine (in fact, it's highly encouraged, especially if the killer is a 110 movement speed killer). a killer's power removing all counterplay from their interactions with survivors is not. one is a big leap from the other
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That's relatively easy just by having the forums open during queues these days.
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I can't trust how the devs would "make fair" spirit besides some addon changes that she really needs, because they have a habit of going too far with counter play options recently even if they did what you wanted they'd do far more just by looking at the other killers they have released after her.
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this ######### thread .... yeah because she has insane mind game potential and cant be bullied or looped too oblivion and all these threads crying about her. for a "free hit" well its called dont jump over the pallet if she stands still run away or find somewhere else. its about time this game had a viable killer without people screaming op or on about prayer beads. and with that im out. i play both sides and its about time a killer is truly powerful .... also if she is perfect why the need for this post? just feels like bait 🙄😴
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Off topic if you got bloodlusted, the game is over and doors open and you'll get bt'd off and it'd be an easy 4 escape.Sucks to deal with but it's the most shoot yourself in the foot tactic a killer can do.
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if you think that's the only time people get bloodlusted then i'm getting the feeling you're the one who browses this forum more than playing the game
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Thinking about this again
No one complained about spirit at all after her release when she got the buff she needed, it was all about Legion, Plague and GhostFace now, nothing at all about spirit
But now after the fact that sounds are somewhat fix, people are complaining now...its like...spirit not being able to hear was "fair' but now that we can hear more clearly, she is now consider "OP"....
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Are you kidding? Nurse delivers much more problems, and you want to nerf Spirit? She's fine. There is a counterplay against her. Against Nurse - no.
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Just don't play survivor ez fix
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Agree, Spirit is the second best killer in this game, but she's still no one compare to Nurse.
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remove DS/dead hard/adrenaline/bt then, perks are meant to counter/give you advantages,
without them even freddy would be a challange
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once you know she have those, don't stay on your gen for too long, obviously she will come to you to grab you, so either you leave it or tap it, i once got 5 guys in the same gen in the same position because they wouldn't stop going to it, you have to adapt.
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i agree about the vaulting thing, she'S the only killer than doesn't have a vaulting animation and can be extremely used on loops, tho yes this is a big advantage, but i kinda see it as an integrated bamboozle, tho it doesn't block the window, but yes just a little animation or effect showing she's indeed vaulting would be needed for the surivors.
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Guilty - forums are more interesting.
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prayer beads could be a ultra rare instead? ik it won't be a big change but it will recude the chances to see those since they would be even more rare
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I guess she still makes footsteps, but good luck hearing that over a gen.
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i always hear the grass move when i play her, i don't play against her as much as i'd like to to tell you if she does move it or not tho
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That used to be the only mitigation to prayer beads - now that grass does not move, you absolutely cannot see or hear her. She just has to move around the gen until she collides with a survivor for an easy grab.
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it needs to be fixed then
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