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Comments
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The sad thing about the situation is that the experience on both sides is a mess.
Anecdotally, when I play killer, I feel like survivors are too fast and have too many options to slip through and undo my efforts, and I feel powerless in what should be the power role. I find myself often questioning why killers don't have some cooldown-based way to simply see where everyone is every X seconds, as a matter of catching up when I am fatally behind.
And on the survivor side, if I get caught, I feel that I am 100% at the mercy of the killer player's decision to tunnel, and/or my teammates' ability to not fail me. Whether I get to engage with the game is not up to me a lot of the time.
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Game's been out 3 years, how charitable do we need to be about holding their feet to the fire? Freddy rework only took 2 years, and how long have they been talking about dedicated servers now?
They need to take action on the big problems immediately. Like, how was a fix to the current Sprint Burst exploit not prioritized and deployed inside of 24 hours? I know that development is not an instantaneous process, but when major issues are taking literal years to fix, and there's no demonstrable urgency to anything, I have to raise an eyebrow at any promises that are made, and any assurances that they're looking into such-and-such.
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Man, I hope this doesn't just scroll down and die like all other constructive feedback. I don't think developers should hang every decision on what some especially vocal players say or think, but the sentiment expressed here is broad enough to warrant some sort of consideration in terms of at least acknowledging problems. Hopefully folks press them on a lot of these issues in next week's Q&A.
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Well lets face it, there are perks that are already helping against those. But you guys decided to limit the use of those. Ds should be after every hook when you run it. If someone is tunnelling me from the first hook, they will most definitely do it the second hook as well. But basically when i used my ds on my first hook, i dont have anything to defend myself with anymore. Just plain stupid. And easy to implemet i think. A one time thing isnt scary enough....But it is scary after every unhook.
Also, its just stupid that killers like the wraith can be in stealth mode next to the hook camping and someone with bt makes the save and it doesnt trigger cause no hardbeat. Bt should trigger by range, not heartbeat. it shouldnt matter what killer it is, when its the only perk you have against camping killers to do something about it.
Also, with 4 people, there is no reason for a killer to hook someone twice back to back without hanging someone else. To me thats the clear result of tunnelling. So just half the points they get for it.
Survivors get one big bonus (5k points for escape) when they do their objective. A killer can walk away with zero kills and still have 20k plus points. I know, cause i do this every time without camping and tunnelling. I suck as killer, but i easily get 20k points every match. So make it that the killer gets this bonus too for getting a 4k. Only conditions are that he cant be hit with ds and cant have to many minus scores on his emblem score to receive it. Its ths point system that makes tunnelling and camping the most profitable strategy. And also not just killer points. Rework survivor one as well so they can be without altruism when someone is camping. But with the points system now, you just depip if you dont score there cause survival is already just a one thing score thing in practice.
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I made the comments about my friends (rank 20’s) who quit and we’re matched with a rank 15 killer.
Those numbers, 15 vs. 20 don’t paint the true picture. Neither does the P3.
It’s like this, rank reset just happened so the killer was probably rank 12. As hillybilly he had BBQ&C and hex:ruin, forget the other perks. And he was P3.
This let me know this wasn’t some novice, the killer had played a lot, new the maps cold, had leveled up other killers to get their perks, and had spent hours leveling up billy three times.
someone of that caliber should not be put with someone with less than 10 hours inn game, unless your objective is to drive most people away.
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Oh and this is also coming from someone who played with her daughter a few rounds today. We just wanted a fun evening as a mother daughter moment. But after hard tunnelled the living hell out of in the 5 games we did, she didnt want to play anymore. Can hardly blame her. There really is no fun when all your matches go like this. I hardly face a facecamp anymore, but the tunnel is very real in 4 out of 5 games. Probably even more. I am using my DS almost every round and its ridiculous. And then still get put out of the game because now the killer has a free pass to me cause i already have my ds gone.
I played solo. But its not doable anymore like that. To much strength difference between a solo survivor round and the killer. Most of killer perks are designed to fight swf i feel. And solo survivors are paying the price for it. Even with friends, the struggle is real because of the tunnelling. Hardly any fun left. We usually cant play for more then an hour at a time. After that we all feel depressed by the state of nowadays killer. At least looping requires skill (without running infinites offcourse) Tunnelling and camping requires nothing.
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I got the game for less than a week from gamefly due mostly to trolling on the part of other survivors and the camping tunneling stuff. I just got turned off of it. Then during the freeplay, I bought it since I had so many friends with it. Having a solid team is about the only cure for a soured experience the first time around. I love the game now.
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thing is only invested players will buy chapters, newcomers will just quit if theres not good perks against these issues in the basegame because nobody likes p2w games. imo you should make base perks every now and then
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"(i) Excessive camping/tunneling kills the mood. Many of the deserters mentioned camping and/or tunneling as a huge turnoff. Or to be specific: being camped/tunneled in consecutive games killed the mood of the survivor(s) being subjected to it. The general notion of all the deserters is that the game can turn sour really quickly. It doesn't help that the weakest of the team often becomes the target."
Why am I not surprised?
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It would help a lot if some "must have" perk features were simply baked into the base kit of each role. The amount of false choice in this game is so out-of-control.
For survivors: We're Gonna Live Forever for the LOVE OF GOD JUST REWARD THE ALTRUISM FOR EVERYONE BY DEFAULT IT'LL RESULT IN MUCH HAPPIER PLAYERS, Bond, Kindred, Borrowed Time (on each player's first unhook).
For killers: Whispers, the BP aspect of Barbecue & Chili, Bitter Murmur (or Discordance), Make Your Choice.
This would address the problem of killers not being able to find survivors quickly enough, killers tunneling and camping, and survivors not having enough information by default. Before you criticize it offhand, sit down and picture what the game might look like if EVERY player had all of these perks in their base kit by default.
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How about making conditions for tunneling:
For example tunneling someone to death while 5 gens and ruin is still up should be punished in some way while tunneling someone 4 survivors alive and 2 or less gens up not.
And for camping: I know it was tested before and failed. But I think u need to do it different. The timer should go slower when no survivor is around x meters the hook and the killer is camping. In case the killer is camping but the survivors are swarming and hook bombing the timer should go at the same speed. This could also work around kindred basekit because u could make the color of the hook state bar different when it goes slower. This information can be used for solos so they can know the killer is camping without leaving the gen.
What do you think @Peanits?
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There is a theme, a theme running through this thread. A theme that runs through every single thread like it. What a thread is that is a thread like this is, when the state of the game is pretty much distillled into it's end-state according to but one side of the two.
Inevitably, invariably, described is a game that is wholly in the control of the side which has very little actual control and is merely responding to circumstance.
Circumstance which comes about entirely from the wants of the side that has near total control.
We get to this because they do not know what they want, they complain when they get what they asked for and thus is why they must be listened to no further.
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When I first started killer it was after probably close to 1k or 2k hours of survivor. I started with Spirit since she mechanically seemed fun and unique. I was p3 by the time I hit rank 15 simply due to BP. I think the reason I did so well was the fact I played survivor so much.
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Another thing is that it take FOR EVER to find a lobby. It should not take half an hour just to go up against a tunneling face camping killer. Me and my boyfriend are sick of it. That's why we stopped playing it
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@Peanits One big thing about "tunneling" is that survivors often unhook people directly in front of the killer. This happens all the time. Survivors don't know when to unhook and when not to unhook, as there's nothing telling them when or when not to, and they keep that thought process as they go into more and more games. While unhooking in front of the killer should not be something that just can't happen at all, I feel like something should be done so that people can not be unhooked in front of the killer if they don't want to, because this is what leads to what other people call "tunneling", and being farmed off the hook. About 5 times out of 10, I'm unhooked when I know it's a bad call, but I can't stop it. I immediately get put back on the hook because they don't have borrowed time, and then people claim the killer is the problem, when in fact it was the survivor who caused that situation to happen. This is one thing that I absolutely feel needs to be improved in order for the game to get better. Being farmed is not fun, and it's not the killer's fault someone is unhooking me in front of him. So if you're looking into tunneling, please keep this in mind. Survivors do not need to be able to unhook in front of the killer's face and get away with it, something needs to be done to incentivize them NOT to do something like that unless they absolutely have to, whether it be a tutorial with different situations, or a mechanic.
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I'm kinda getting annoyed at the people saying you have to be really good to get p3. I have 3 lvl 50 killers (enough bp spent for p3, I just don't think it's worth it) and have never made it above rank 14. Also, I have played as a killer I was already good with to get enough bp to get another killer I wanted to try out up to lvl 15 for the perks and add ons. So a p3 killer doesn't even indicate that they have ever ever played that killer before.
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That's because you know how to do everything so you dont care about the problems that new players have.
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Omg why are you feeling some type of way for no reason he's just giving honest information to BHVR so they can change high rank mechanics or sum to help new players.
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The Borrowed Time mechanic should just be a one-time thing that's baked into every survivor's base kit. This would incentive the killer going after the unhooker rather than the unhooked.
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@Rydog Doing that tells survivors they're playing correctly. They aren't. Survivors should not be taught to play incorrectly.
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They did, but what they did is not enough.
They made an emblem penalization for staying near a hooked survivor. Not enough because a lot of killers don't really mind the emblems or getting higher ranks or maybe they don't even know about the new penalization.
For tunneling they reworked DS for making it an antitunneling perk. Not enough because it have only one use per trial and because you need a paid characters for unlocking it unless the stars are aligned and you see it in the shrine of secrets.
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@Peanits on this paragraph
"Thanks for the feedback." These are, more or less, what we've noticed as well. Most of these are being worked on in some capacity, or at least the least of the game is designed with them in mind. new mechanics, perks, and powers, for example, we try to make them as intuitive as possible so they're easy to pick up and learn from both sides. "
You will not make powers of killers that are more worked, I mean, when you make a killer you think of new people? With this I mean, with the first part that you have said, it gives me to understand that you will do simple powers so that new players do not have to "suffer" a lot and thus continue playing the game ... and the older players that we carry more time in the game? Will not we have more advanced killer powers?
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Camping and tunneling are not just low rank issues. R1 survivor from PC through console launch and onward. Played SWF, but mostly solo.
This last month I have moved on to other games entirely, and the month before that I was already playing on and off. Feedback on my end is simple - the game does favor the killer these days. Survivor perks and items are getting nerfed frequently and killers have more crutches than ever. End Game is great but favors the killer and you don't usually stand a good chance of getting out because killer pave is faster than survivor runs and exit gate opening. Most obnoxious though, is the loss of team play. You get penalties for coop work and more often than not general play survivors will leave people behind during end game because if you have up heal AND run across the map and deal with a camper (even with BT) you won't make it back to that exit gate. That's the part that really gets me even more than killers wanting everything nerfed - the unbalanced team play. This is where they went wrong, it's basically every survivor for his or her self. SWF gets more popular because solo players have a harder time surviving (bc the game pits you against one another) and then killers get mad because they think everyone is playing SWFs or something. They need to remove penalties and make End Game at least a minute longer. But hey, I haven't played for a month so maybe they already did 😄
Even being a high rank player for so long I feel they are catering too much TO high rank players. Like the design of the game has switched more to reaching red ranks than for general players to have fun. There have been a lot of changes the last year that sparked a lot of people saying they would leave (although I wish they wouldn't say that because then they stay and it's just and empty threat) but now it seems people are actually starting to leave.
Bottom line, surviving isn't fun anymore because you can't make it on your own and team play is not really encouraged beyond a few unhooks. If you aren't coop playing what the hell is the point anymore? It's supposed to be 4 vs 1, not 1 v 1 v 1 v 1 v 1. Imagine board games marketed like that. PLAY WITH YOUR FRIENDS BUT GET PENALTIES (AND PROBABLY DIE) IF YOU DO! ALSO PROBABLY DIE IF YOU PLAY ALONE!
Yes. That sounds so fun. 🙄
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I agree with you. I started playing DBD when it was released for free with PS Plus. Me and 9 other friends started playing at the same time and I'm the only person who still plays it...
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I know it's never going to change, but the biggest feedback I've had from friends I've tried to get into the game is how awful the constant paywalls are.
A VAST majority of the cast is either locked behind money or an insanely long grind, and MANY meta perks are bound to them.
It may have been fine when there were a few DLC packs, but it's 2/3 of the game's content now. Some of the older DLC really needs to get built into the base game.
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The game and the dlc's you can sometimes buy very cheap on steam. Just wait for something special like the summer holidays, or if we look at the future... The black friday and so on^^.
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I understand that, but it's still a problem. New players come in and see a $30 game with $112.50 of DLC and that's JUST to have the characters unlocked. On top of that any cosmetics that look nice cost a tonne, and they're adding a paid battle pass as well.
Even if you can get stuff cheaper, the price these days for the fully unlocked game is far exceeding a triple A game with a season pass, and there simply isn't the quality to support that.
It would definitely not hurt to build Hag and Doctor's DLCs into the base game like Nurse and Huntress, and periodically retire some of the DLC later on like Clown.
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I have my doubts that the cosmetics (besides the cosmetic dlcs on steam) will ever getting cheaper. I mean, I don't know it, but I can only assume that the cosmetics are the "real" thing, the devs made with their money.
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I've tried to get several friends to play dbd and I got the EXACT same response. Camping and tunneling being number 1, not gonna lie it's a reason I don't play as much either. I fired up the game recently for the first time in months, got 4 killers in a row who camped. Felt like a total waste of time even opening the game up. Also another common complaint is getting matched with killers more than 4 or 5 ranks ahead of the survivor.
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The same happens also to killers and when you not take that as a challenge, it makes also no fun if those survivors are really playing good.
If you like to try out killer site of the game, you will see that the game gets harder and harder from one rank to another. Imo survivors are the kings of the high ranks, while killers rule the low ranks.
The most things that here are criticized have not frightened my friends, since camping is not a dbd unique thing and the matchmaking well... I guess dbd needs more players for a change there.
What my friends had frightened was that the devs have no problem to change payed content to something totally different. I know, not everyone has a problem with that, but some people (me included) have, but that I have already explained enough in other threads.
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Well lets face it. Survivors usually get into red ranks because they know how to loop. I am a poor survivor in looping, so i will never be in the red ranks. But the killers in there, some are good at the game, but most just got there by camping and tunnelling the f* out of everyone. And yes, those killers will have a hard time when they go up further, cause the survivors that can loop arent as easy to catch and will punish that bullshit. When killers camp and tunnel, they will never learn how to end loops, how to loop and how to end chases quickly. And thats the problem with red ranks killers nowadays. They end up in a spot they dont belong, just because of the tunnel and camp. Do you really think the survivors that are in red ranks and can loop, are waiting for a camping and tunnelling killer or do they want to play against someone really good? As long as this game rewards this play, people that play killer like this will be in places they dont belong. And just too stupid to realize they never learned to play killer proper. And the longer BHVR waits to adress this really big problem in the game, the more people will be turned off by it. Its already happening.
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You have the same on survivor site - sort of. Most survivors I have meet in this forums don't know what to do when someone takes that looping from them away.
And even don't want to read how to do it. I can remember how I writed 1 day a text... Well... Double... Maybe triple the length of Lux1 posting here on this page, only to get the a posting back "I don't want to do this and I have stop reading after the first sentence".
That had teach me, that I don't waste time anymore to explain someone something here, so in depth. I would only give short tips, before I write again a feeled half hour on a tutorial for nothing.
Survivors and killers are different in the things they have to do, but imo, we suffer under the same things, just on different ways.
So... We are not that different after all :).
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The number one reason why my friends and family didn't buy the game after a free weekend, and why I've basically walked away from playing DBD recently, is the asinine grind for needed Perks.
It wasn't the DLC costs, or camping or tunneling, for them. It was the grind.
There are other games out there to play for PvP that have "builds" where you don't have to keep grinding and grinding, and then pray for decent RNG on top of it, to actually create and use builds.
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As someone who got the game when it was free on PS4 and play survivor with a couple of my friends, I made an account just to say I disagree with everything in the post except one thing.
The tutorial section is woefully inadequate. The little things that appear while the game loads are more informative than the tutorial. And I should not have had to watch YouTube videos to learn how things work.
The rest is typical survivor whining. At no point did any of us ever think any of the things survivors complain about were problems until we started reading this forum and reddit.
Anyway I agree with you about the learning curve. But I find it hard to believe that a new player is going to be bothered by 'perk and add on imbalance' without someone from the forums whispering in their ear.
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Why people even bother giving feedbacks...
BHVR doesn't care about surv mains.
Killer mains will just flood the thread with "everything is fine except nerf surv more".
Really, why bother?
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I have issues with your rebuddle. 90% of people are low rank meaning you're admitting 90% of games are just face camping. Imo you're just proving his point. Which is true btw.
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I wouldnt say "killer mains" but people in general will act this way yes. And BHVR doesnt care. But some of us players care so much that this is the length we go to for a chance at protecting what we love
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Most of the threads you made with a clear survivor bias have all been answered by either the devs or the community manager, yet, you have the balls to say they dont care about survivor feedback because you dont like the answer they gave you.
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If you have enough time in as killer it's pretty easy to recognize who the weak, inexperienced survivors are, thus they get tunneled. Then usually the good ones will get camped so they don't cause the killer more grief. The really powerful add ons don't show up in the bloodweb too frequently so I don't see that as a big OP issue. As for all of the repetitive complaints about the game, all I can say is that rather than drive yourself nuts looking for reasons to dislike it, play something else. Really the only thing I would like to see improve is the pip system. It just doesn't seem to be as rewarding as it used to be, but I can live with it.
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This is an utter inversion of reality in regards to the history of the game. Survivors once tried making a point by documenting all the nerfs they had, using very spurious rules that allowed them to include things which were indirect, bug-fixes or other changes. Killers did the same, using the same survivor-created rules and their list dwarfed the survivor one by so much that the creator of the survivor list quickly ceased updating it.
Killers have never had a single request granted that was notably and expressly posted anywhere with common support among killers. The closest we came was hatch-closing, which the devs would not implement without making other changes that made hatch-closing irrelevant. Get that? They would only grant our request, if the end-result was no better for us.
Survivors meanwhile have lobbied consistently for changes that were noted, had wide-support among survivors, only to then complain when those exact changes happened but changed the game in ways they didn't expect or like. The introduction of SWF was the first, biggest and most game-breaking. The devs claim it was always planned(as of October last year), but they should give us access to livestream #6 again so we can compare their words then with their words now.
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Fyi: Community managers answering on the forum IS NOT EQUAL to BHVR developing something to improve surv "quality of life".
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You are OT, so I will not tell you you got it totally wrong :)
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My biggest issue is the whiney community always complaining about everything.
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Stop complaining about it then hypocrit
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One More thing I've heard from new players is that the game can be too overwhelming and unfair when you are a Rank 20 and get thrown with a Rank 8 killer or you are a Rank 20 killer and go against an experienced group of players way higher than your rank either be it SWF or solo .
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Hey @Peanits, I’ve been thinking along the same lines as @Condorloco_26 has. The ranking system has proven in all of its incarnations, that it just doesn’t work for grouping players. I know that you guys have been trying hard to get it to work, but I think that after 3 years we all have to agree that it is a failed experiment.
The only fair way of matchmaking is to use a hidden ranking system that is solely based on hours played, tiered in a progressive manor. Ranks from 0.0 to 5.0, on a logarithmic scale where 1,000+ hours = 5.0, should allow for a more fair system. It would also end DCing to drop in rank, as it would be impossible to derank.
Rank resets would become a thing of the past, as you rank up endlessly until you have your 1,000 hours and always play with experienced players. Experience takes many forms, and truly isn’t measurable in any automated means. MMOs essentially do this as well, as you level up your characters you play with others of a similar level.
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@Kaelum The ranking system seems fine. Ranked Reset however is a problem. Instead of Ranked Reset, it should be changed to a ranked decay, based on individual survivors. If you don't play for a while, you go down in rankings. If you do, you can stay in your rank. Ranked Reset is terrible.
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i tHinK tHey’rE dOiNG a PreTTy gOoD JoB sO fAR
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@Talmeer That price is just adding up the character DLCs, not invluding the customisation packs. https://i.imgur.com/DDhiE7e.png
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This has been one of my concerns for a while. I've brought in over 20 players, only one of which sorta stays around. Their feedback was similar to @kamisen . The camping, tunneling, and grind were huge barriers to keeping the players around.
More than 12 of these players are huge fans of vs games and even they were shocked at the amount of veteran players who played at low ranks just to dominate new players. They were shocked it was allowed.
I've long felt this game has a hard time attracting new players and keeping them. Not good for long term viability.
I'd like to see some form of KYF sandbox mode be an option on the servers. Camping and tunneling not allowed and allow the players to tweak settings for fun. That might make it easier for newer players to get into the game. Let them get bp at a slower rate and experiment with what perks they want to target. There could be a chat libby with killers who are setting up matches.
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