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You need to get rid of looping
Comments
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The issue with the looping situation is not skill, it is balance of the game.
There are areas of many maps, maybe except new badham and shelter Woods.
Where a survivor (1/4 of a team) has advantages over the ENTIRETY of the other team the killer.
This is so strong that sometimes the killer needs to break chase and follow someone else who is in a less of a safe spot.
This is obviously wrong, and a big waste of time for the killer, once again the full opposing team.
1/4 of a team sometimes beating the whole other team, with similar skill levels.
This would be patched at the speed of sound in every video game that isn't asymmetrical.
I have started online gaming in 2002 with ultima online and every time someone was to find a spot that gave pvp advantage it was patched within a month. And the same things happens in most video games.
Where it doesn't happen is in an asymmetrical game, where there are way more people playing a role than the other role. And they are mostly unbalanced, just see how much of a joke is killing Jason in f13.
When one group is larger it can lobby for what they want, in this case looping which essentially killed all the other ways to play the game, even having an impact on the scoring system.
It is a problem and a big one, now if this was just a 1 vs 1 chase simulation then you would be right but it's not, it is a game where a team needs to escape from a deadly maniac.
How much of a problem looping is can be seen when playing nurse, once you remove looping survivors drop like flies.
The game needs to evolve so senseless stuff like looping for minutes or nurse can be nerfed and the whole game optinised
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Oh, hard to tell with text. I really would rather be given a shotgun instead of pallets.
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claudettes with shotguns is a dream come true xd
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Without loops, killers would down survivors so easily. If you got rid of looping, you would have to change so many different things in the game just to get better stealth. Clothes would have to be made darker again, and we all know you guys wouldn't want that, because you guys complained about it so damn much. You would have to change the point system around so survivors get more points from boldness and more points from being in the killers terror radius without the killer seeing you, because if a survivor gets found in a loopless map, they will most likely get downed instantly, and wont get any points for being chased. They would have to remove the heartbeat aspect of legions ability, so he doesn't become one of the strongest killers in the game with his wall hacks in a loopless game. You would have to change how the doctor works. You would have to get rid of his shock, so he can't randomly use his shock to reveal survivors that are behind him or somewhere he probably would have never looked for a survivor. You want the game to be stealthier, but they would have to change so many things. You guys are saying to break LoS of a killer, but there are killers like Legion and the doctor that would make stealth useless, like the nurse does with looping. Looping is a survivors strategy to evading a killer and wasting a killers time. They wont get rid of looping, its a key part of the game. You just have to figure out how to stop a looping survivor. They would have to get rid of scratch marks and blood pools if they wanted to buff stealth, because how are you supposed to lose a killer when you leave a trail of marks that shows the killer exactly where you are going? If you dont find playing the killer fun, then dont play the killer. If you are in the red ranks, and are able to stay in the red ranks, I dont see why you are complaining. Its almost like you guys want to win every game, while having survivors lose every game.
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You know, if we are to talk about how things were originally deisgned, then there is much going on for killers too. First and foremost, there wouldn't be so many aura reading perks around and stuff that, in general, plays the game INSTEAD of the killer (e.g. BBQ & Chilli). BBQ finds survivors for you, NOED allows you to down survivors in one hit while moving faster, because you could not do it for the whole duration of the match. Also NOED was not designed this way, when the game first came out. It only allowed you to instadown survivors while at least one exit gate was ALREADY OPEN, and only if you had it at Tier III.
Allowing people to only ever instadown survivors while playing as Billy, Myers or LF, without ever even trying to base hit, is one of the biggest design flaws this game has. I would like to see more stealth allowed here. As much as pallet looping should not be the only way possible to survive, other options should also be a thing. A game needs to cater to every type of non-toxic player (camping players, here or on games like CoD, are toxic), to be seen as a good way to pass your time.
Then again, I wouldn't be against a way to reduce looping a little, IF something gets done to weaken killers in chases, too. You know, less looping should mean the complete removal of Bloodlust, for instance. Right now, killers can rely on that to catch survivors. Since chases go on for ages, because killers keep tunneling the same survivor until they get him, some are seen avoid destryoing pallets to get Bloodlust. In the end, they almost always get to survivors. Survivor traps could also be added, like something that you place on a door/window of your choice, which stuns the killer when he passes through it (I am talking about single use items, for example). Then, finally, if looping gets reduced, stealth should be much more of a thing. There is not even a point for the Doctor's existance right now, since stealth is so awfully done.
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If stealth is going to be more incorporate as the sole way to escape the killer. Then half the perks killers use to track survivors need to be super nerfed. Cause last I checked killers can still win most chases, if not all eventually. Theyhave more speed, powers, and dont get me started on hitboxes been BS.any good killer (or decent) can end any chase. And the stealth game gets nipped with Killer perks like bloodhound, stridor, whispers, and ect. That makes any stealth build almost useless. Yes we have perks that counter like iron will, and no mither..... (def not worth it) in my opinion. And dont get me started on addons/powers with aura reading abilities. Wraith, legion, MM, And so on. Once everything is balanced for a stealth game. Then I believe loops should be nerfed.
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They cant, its too late
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I don't think you can find any trace of me defending noed or too many tracking perks.
Bbq is essential for BP so I would play even if nerfed, with maps redisegnied and looping much out of the picture, no one would need bloodlust.
Nurse will be nerfed as well
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And I never said you were defending NOED. I just said that things should be way different for both sides. Having the survivors doing something that wasn't part of the game in its early stages does not mean killers aren't doing the same.
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Yes changes need to be made both ways, it is a necessary sacrifice to try and balance the game
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In my daily SWF group of four I'm the only one that is any good at looping,
My mate is not bad
the other two - horrendous
I look forward to some actual interesting posts in this forum - kinda getting bored of ppl repeating the same old camping, looping, tunnelling, swf
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Did you read the title of the post or nah?
"you need to get rid of looping"
Aside from everyone arguing with me and saying "You need to hide more", what are your suggestions to lesson looping? No one has given an actual idea besides "it would be nice if people hid more" like, survivors can already do this, and 90% of the time the survivor is seen from the other side of the map, or the gen is ticking and the killer knows theres only 3 objects around the gen and checking around them will likely show the survivor.
Lets just fill every map with corn so you're more invisible? Killers hate stealth, they moan so much about stealthy survivors but now apparently stealth is needed for more fun?
Stealth in DBD is only fun because it works sometimes, if it was the norm it would be boring, yes I'd RATHER be found so I can chase and waste time for my team, there is absolutely 0 enjoyment out of hiding every time I hear the heart because because looping was remove/nerfed.
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I don't really see how this has got any relevance with what is being discussed here, but ok.
Still, you've got to wonder, if a thing becomes so easily the matter of discussion for so many folks, there has to be something clearly not ok with it. Seems like BHVR rarely takes notice of what is written on the forums, even when it is something that makes sense, but forums are places for people to talk, often about things that need to be improved. Besides, if you really are bored with such threads, why even click on them?
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I dont mi d looping what makes me mad is map designs that put gens on a loop with a beeping pallet which are impossible because you have one guy that just makes noise at it and is a constant dick that will abuse it to be a useless jerk knowing u have to give up a gen or lose all of them because so them
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Add an endurance bar for survivors so they cant run forever.
Kill me
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Survivors don't find playing against Freddy fun = Rework.
Survivors don't find playing against Legion fun = Rework.
Survivors don't find a stealthy playstyle fun = More and longer chases.
Killers don't find playing against SWF fun = Nothing.
Killers don't find playing against stackable 2nd-chance perks fun = Nothing.
Killers don't find more and longer chases fun = more and longer chases.
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so true!
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The user and all related content has been deleted.1
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Sprint Burst and Dead Hard is just as fast as Hillbilly? No, not even close.
Sprint Burst / Dead Hard = 150%
Hillbilly sprint (default) = 230%
You can just hop through a window to avoid his chainsaw? You mean like this Jane Romero at 6:18 who was already looking/moving to the left side AFTER vaulting the window and still got hit by my chainsaw?
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Survivors asked constantly for changes that made it this way, ignoring all the warnings and citing the catch-all phrase 'but the alternative is BORING', or it was frustrating and would make them quit the game etc. Funny how when killers said the same thing about all the changes being made, the devs just ignored us.
Survivors though do not get to claim the status of bystanders who are disappointed with how narrow-focused the game has become: they repeatedly requested that, without realising despite it frequently being explained to them how it was the case.
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Stealth is useless in this game and it should be. Past 1K hours, GOOD killers will annihilate stealth survivors, and GOOD survivors will not find stealth fun. The most fun you will have in this game is playing aggressively doing chases; loops, pathing, juking, and mindgaming.
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I guess you have the power to speak for all survivors and killers...
Umm you se one of those who lobbied for looping making dbd a joke
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Absolutely true! They lobbied for this pro survivors gameplay which everybody deep inside understand to be flawed
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Why would you get rid of the thing that is keeping the game alive? 90% of the people with thousands of hours in this game keep coming back to it because of survivor-killer interaction.
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Freddy rework wasn’t just a survivor thing, come on man. You telling me killer mains didn’t constantly ask for a rework and complain that he was F tier? Yeah, they just reworked him cause of survivors though lol
Legion rework was a united mission, the only people who didn’t want Legion changes were killers who used the exploit. Too bad. Most killers wanted Legion changed.
The thought that killers would prefer a stealth based game of hide and seek is laughable, both sides would say it’s boring. We know damn well what killers really want is to just be able to get downs faster and easier. This is just being camouflaged in a “there should be more stealth” argument.
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I disagree. If this was a pure stealth game, nobody would play it, or at least the amount of players would be significantly smaller.
Loops can be annoying, but what needs to change is the amount of good loops survivors are given in a map and how far apart each one is. The devs are currently working on this actually. There should never be a killer shack right next to a jungle gym, but it does happen currently. It won't be happening for much longer though.
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Looping is why this game is alive right now. Get rid of it and see what happens to the player base numbers.
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This is obviously a very new player this thread is irrelevant and ignorant asf begone
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That's an assumption based on nothing, if looping were never a part of the game we cannot predict how the game would be in terms of numbers and health.
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Thank you so much, everytime I said something it was misinterpreted. You understand.
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That's an assumption based on the amount of players who play stealthily vs the amount who play boldly and like to engage in chase. The latter has a much more significant amount from what I've observed.
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that's because stealth has been nerfed doesn't give a lot of BP and doesn't really help emblems. That's the terrible state of the game some survivors lobbied for.
Obviously you are now left with plenty of toxic bold survivors... in a horror game lol that's why dbd is a joke
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Or, maybe it's because it is a complete snoozefest for both sides for almost anyone who has 1000 hours in the game. Watch any streamer with thousands of hours and see what they do the most. Stealth becomes very boring to many players very fast, I myself got tired of stealth after my first 5 days of playing the game. I can guarantee you myself and many many others wouldn't be playing right now if this game was oriented around stealth. The start of this video is exactly what I mean:
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First off I am trying my best to remain respectful to you all because some of the things you've posted to me have been downright disrespectful. So that's a reason why I'm not responding so much.
Secondly, obviously there's not much that can be done about looping, however the amount of time that can be stalled for a loop is a problem, and I personally feel both tactics should be viable, even as Survivor I like to play stealthy but I really can't because so much of the majority just want to run the killer around. And the amount of aura perks on both sides prevent this.
Honestly, I would like to see both playstyles merited. Instead of the game kind of forcing you to be in chase so much of the time.
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The game was initially oriented around stealth when it first released but Survivors found the unintended exploit of looping and devs just went with it and now claim it as a feature in the game. There are many people who like stealth why do you all keep thinking everyone likes to run the killer around in circles? Not everyone does.
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Imo removing looping would make the game really boring, I’ve played against plenty of squadettes and it wasn’t fun playing hide and seek with them.
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As it is, people that play “stealthy” do next to nothing in the matches I have been in. To enforce it would just mean that many people would not want to touch a gen. So it’s a no from me.
Also, I don’t agree that loops are unbalanced when you take into consideration that killers bloodlust at the loop anyway. So they will catch up.
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The Claudette skin is an oversight, they never intended for her to just blend in with the environment.
I remember when this game first came out, stealth was still alot more viable, spine Chill was meta whispers helped out alot even against claudettes.
...it was so different back then now it's just run in a circle because you can't do anything else.
I just need the devs to help those of us who want stealth to be more viable. Maybe calm down on aura perks?
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I agree about aura perks, they could add more LOS blockers to buff stealth while keeping looping alive. However this would indirectly nerf huntress.
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Because the vast majority of players who play the game are the ones who do like to run the killers around. Making stealth more prominent than looping would hurt the game more than it would help it. There's plenty you can do about looping. It basically is a game of can you out skill your opponent. It isn't like other horror games, that do incentivize stealth. And to me, that is what makes this game as popular as it is. Because it is different.
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I get that some are immersed, but remember even though there are 4 of you, the other person doesn't have to help others. Ultimately they just need to survive. I feel like DBD has lost this essence over the years, everyone claims it's a team game and it can be but really all the actions you take as a survivor should be consequential and make you think if you should do it. I don't know, maybe I'm stuck in the past.
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Hey, if you all really like looping, that's fine. I just want those of us who prefer a different playstyle to have the choice for stealth.
If we all can agree to that, I don't see how there can be any problems.
Clearly I was ranting in my initial post because at the time I was so fed up with looping. It just looks weird for one when a characters body is leaning on the wall running from you down to the most accurate pixel.
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I had a game yesterday where two survivors hid from me and I had to walk around the map for 5 minutes before I found someone. What a fun experience that was. I almost DC'd too.
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@Gardenia I mean, I don’t know.. when I first started playing the game was scary partly because I wanted to hide (since I didn’t know what to do) Now that I’ve gotten better at looping I have a better understanding that it is also a survival game, and in most cases surviving also means running away from the thing that wants to kill you.
To get rid of looping would mean getting rid of the adrenaline factor that you experience as a survivor... and for some people that is where they have the most fun (myself included) if anything I feel like that game needs to evolve. Or we will continue to see the same mechanics over and over.
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I'd be down for giving more points for stealth, as long as looping stayed as is. I don't see the problem in that. I see a problem though with wanting stealth to be the main thing in the game over looping. Removing looping would be a horrible idea for the games sake.
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Stealth and the excitement it does genuinely bring is NOT something that resists being eroded by repetition very well, it's one of the reasons that heavily stealth-focused multiplayer games are relatively rare. Stealth in games just work a lot better when the seekers in the game of hide and seek aren't other actual players, and while there are exceptions they're hard to pull off.
The devs already seem to lean towards using more unsafe structures to make it less easy to just mindlessly run from pallet to window to pallet, which is a much better way to encouraging and rewarding chase-breaking and chase-avoidance - making chases more threatening and uncertain and more about outplaying your opponent than "force the pallet/entity blockers as fast as possible" for killers which is the case with the safer structures for a lot of killers. I think a lot of people can agree with a design philosophy that leads to less open "middle-of-Blood-Lodge" structures and more LOS breakers and uncertainty, which is a much better (and more realistic) option than trying to "remove looping".
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Here is a list of what stances I take on each of the things you said.
Is the Freddy rework just a survivor thing? No,
Did killers ask for a rework of Freddy? Yes.
The question missing though is; did killers also ask for something other than a rework? Yes, some just wanted straight buffs and others wanted quid pro quo buffs, not an overhaul. Why pick a rework over buffs? Because survivors said playing against Freddy wasn't fun.
No one was asked either what a reworked Freddy should be like; survivors didn't care because they just didn't want to play against Freddy and the devs don't listen to killers, so of course this kind of feedback wasn't sought.
Were the only people who didn't want Legion changes people who used the exploit? No and if that was an exploit rather than use of addons for exactly what they're supposed to do, it could have been changed without totally reworking Legion, which happened in the same patch. Plenty of addons that share the same purpose do stack; this case was singled-out not based on any design-principle but for the sake of an arbitrary design-goal. The problem with chasing goals rather than sticking to consistent principles is that they create clashes and naked unfairness, leaving people wondering 'why was X changed but not Y when it works the same way as X?'.
Would killers prefer a stealth-based game? It already is a stealth-based game, it's just now killers have more stealth options than survivors do, which is funny because in asymmetrical games it is usually the weaker side that relies on stealth. That at least is consistent, as killers are the weaker side.
What you meant though is: should players be forced to play a certain way that they don't want to? The answer again though is: that is already the case, it's just that it's mostly the case for killers and where survivors have been restricted is through the devs responding to their own numerous requests for changes.
I think there should be a diversity of playstyles and not just a straight choice between stealth or chase-lengthening either or somewhere in-between. This has not been possible because the vast majority of survivor feedback(the feedback the devs focus on) calls for proscriptions on the killers, to which killers can only respond by being proscriptive in-game.
Your characterisations about others say more about you.
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With all the changes to lighting there's no way even with Claudette you're gonna pull off stealth unless you have a boosted killer who doesn't realize the grass is bent over and slightly moving , because even if you crouch still in tall grass you can see it if you know what it looks like without a survivor there
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I think the main concern is, people who suggest more stealth do nothing but regurgitate the "Just hide" line, and never actually give any example of how it'll help, or any ideas towards it besides some odd ideas like "add more bushes", "add more line of sight blockers", "and just hide when you hear the heartbeat"???
guess what... line of sight blockers are loops, btw.
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the tl'dr of this thread is:
"We need to put survivors in an open field and let them run in straight lines until they die"
How do you remove the only means of survival from a survival game?
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