The Nerf Cycle
Comments
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Sorry, I forgot it's okay to have a killer who ignores all chase mechanics in a game that is about the chase. Silly me.
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It's about the case because for 3 years survivors have persistently made it about the chase and resisted every single effort to get them to diversify.
They ask for things without thinking, they complain when they get what they asked for, they don't know what they want and the devs must stop listening to them.
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Generalizing survivor players. Nice.
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Lmao you are really angry. I didn't see the freddy nerf necessary I could survive him perfectly and I was having a lot of fun with him and his dream pallets, but no one cried about it.
And IMPORTANT take note of this, the devs just nerf or buff something when their data base is not bqlamced, simple as that, nobody cried about the freddy nerf and even devs said it especifically: the dream pallets and the dream snares were way too oppresive (yes, they literslly said oppresive and I couldn't stop laughing with that)
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You forgot about survivor's complaining about GF so he got nerfed a week after release.
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I didn't waste money on him. I seen the nerfs. He even gets revealed in Chase easily. Total bs
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Neither did I, his perks are utter ######### and in need of buffs, also I saw no reason to play him instead of Myers
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I've heard killers ######### about Nurse just as much as Surviviors.
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Oh, for God sake Can you wait until they release the "updates" before you start complaining? You literally are complaining about a nonesense, just assuming nurse will be nerfed soon (wich is just your idea). Maybe something that is not too powerful but it will be easier to control?
And please stop thinking about survivor vs us killers. This is a game, you can play wichever role you want, you're not killers, just players who enjoys playing killer.
About pig and EGC, well the mechanic is that a generator needs to be completed in order to active the reverse trap. It's not a "nerf" itself because when EGC collapse activate, you have two mins in order to escape, you can't just go around and search for jigsaw box that without counting that a lot of killers just dropped the survivor and picked up in order to "let them escape" with an active reverse bear trap because obviously they can't escape with it nor search a jigsaw box because the killer is near you and will hit you if you attempt to go (This is called griefing, the same griefing that survivors t-bagging in the exit doors happened before EGC)
Doctor is a good killer without add-ons, still the same as before, you still have no knowledge about what changes they will do. So wait beore start complaining about an idea of what you think
Plague wasn't a good killer even on PTB, the only change is survivors didn't know how to play against her before and now they do. Walking a little faster doesn't fix anything and if you think it will fix her then use "Play with Your Food" and tell us how high tier Plague is now that you're walking faster. Spoiler alert: She won't be better.
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It annoys me when survivors say this, or instead "Lets give the Devs a chance here." We have. Several times. The fact of the matter is that the Dev's have an AWFUL track record with "adjusting" killers. So forgive us for fearing that the only killer who can go head-to-head with the overwhelming power that is SWF is heading to the Nerf Chopping Block.
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Thats not really true they have done some great changes in the past the Hag for one and just recently the Freddy rework. Then there is the spirit and Huntress.
I don't count Legion, Plague or Ghostface I feel they just weren't that well designed from the start imo. Legion imo should have a Freddy type rework and a whole new power and it was a killer which probably started from idea from the community. There were quite a few posts in the past asking for a killer that could jump pallets and windows. The others were given a power which put its strongest part into the survivors hands.
Personally I wish for them to slow down a bit and take more time with the dlc's as the best ones took more thought.
With Legion I see it as an example of what the community wants doesnt always turn out good for the game.
That on top of all the nerfs and buffs on both sides to try and make it more balanced.
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We've trusted them the whole time! I came around when Myers was released. I bought this game for Myers. What they do? Nerfed him. Screwed up Wraith cube. (Yes he is better, but they also nerfed stuff and did stuff nobody wanted) Freddy.... Atlantis. Plague? Weak. GF... Weak! Leatherface... Who cares lol? I mean come on. Spirit had to have been a mistake when she was made. She's the only Killer that's actually a constant threat despite being add on dependent.
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No balance decision in this game has ever been made around the highest level of play, and that's the problem.
Nurse being nerfed IS based around the highest level of play, so it's fine.
What is your standard to call killers weak? Sure, if you compare them to Nurse, GF and Plague are weak. But they're not weak on their own rights, and not weak when compared to the average killer in this game. They're both solidly mid tier, which is as high as any M1 no mobility killer can get in this game, but that's another, completely different problem. It's a game design problem. Plague was never a contender to break into the elite division above mid rank in this game. She never will as long as she can't use Corrupt Intervention in more matches than not. Call her boring, but calling her low tier is dishonest.
We should be thankful that FINALLY we get some resemblance of high level balancing in this game. Freddy's nerfs from back then wouldn't fly nowadays, especially because a killer like Freddy wouldn't get released. And I hope they learned from Legion as well. Both those iterations have no place in this game.
They're tackling the outliers now. Chainsaw bros add-ons, Nurse, Doctor... I'm positively surprised, and we should celebrate that we're getting actual balance for once.
And quite frankly, considering how much the devs make balance changes on a whim without taking our opinions into consideration, the fact that they listened to THE COMMUNITY, not only survivor mains, about the Nurse shows that she's out of line.
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The amount of game knowledge and skill from the playerbase has reached a point where we deserve some high level balancing. Yes, that DOES mean touching the Nurse. It's as objective as anything in this game gets, balance wise. That also means buffing the weaker killers.
We just got an awesome rework that pulled a killer out of the gutter and into playability and people already found something else to complain, ffs
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I loved old legoin and I miss there old power
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Jesus christ I've never seen so much complaining in my life
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Funny, when it's time to BALANCE around R1, it's making the STRONGEST killer weaker, yet SWF, GEN RUSHING, LOOPING, ETC will have to wait!
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#NotAllSurvivors are sweaty SWF. We can't possibly balance around them!
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Not ALL R1 Killers are ELITE Nurse players.
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Nerf Nurse though.
Honestly, one of the worst parts about this whole thing is the Survivor Main advocates on the forum already openly admitting to being ready to go after Spirit next. For the betterment of the game and the enjoyment of everyone, of course.
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"Nurse is fine and has been since release same with her addons" the only thing that made me laugh more was the guy saying "legion was fine on release" this forum is great if you want to laugh at people saying ridiculous things
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I’m just worried that, the devs are gonna make the same mistake that made with legion, plague, ghostface, and freddy, and put the counter to the killers power inside the killers power. Mending not counting as a healing action among other things regarding legion, cleaning giving a full heal for Plague, alarm clocks for waking up for Freddy, or simply looking at Ghostface. Killer powers should not have counters built into them.
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If they touch my precious spirit I swear!!!!😡😱😰
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In my experience, Nurse just requires different counterplay than other killers. You just try to get distance and juke. Sure, good nurses can try to predict, but it's still better than nothing.
I personally don't understand the "nerf powerful killers" bandwagon many survivor mains are on. The point of a survivor is to survive, while they keep making it so easy for them by doing so. It makes no sense to me.
Nurse needs no change. She's one of the few skill based killers there are that don't require survivor mistakes to do well.
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That's the point. Her ability is based solely on the player playing her. Every other killer relies on survivor mistakes. That's what makes swf so dangerous.
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Because they have found the formula to obtain what they want, if something isn't loopable they need to nerf it.
They can simply :
1 start to dc against the killer who needs to go
2 open posts about the killer being op
3 demand a counterplay, new keyword that now has infected the devs as well
4 do videos about the topic
5 repeat until the goal is achieved
Legion has been defeated, nurse is about to go and spirit is next 100%. Then if many people start to play hag she will be next and then every killer will be loopable.
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That's the whole plan. If nurse could be looped, there would be no arguments here. It's the same thing with a spirit. Every pallet is a guessing game and they hate having to outwork the killer.
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It is disheartening but at least we now know where killers stand in BHVR ladder of importance
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Monstrum 2 can't come out soon enough.
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there's already ppl crying for a nerf on the new Freeedy when he's mid-tier at best.
probably going to happen
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Because they're upset they can't loop him 5 gens. People were upset about Bamboozle for gods sake. What's so bad about this perk? It's blocks off stupid window loops immediately.
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Of course if people have any changes to tell its allways crying. Sheesh. How outdated are you?
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"People only complain because they can't deal with stuff!"
"All survivor mains are biased and EVIL!!!!!"
God, I do wish I had such a simplistic and non-nuanced world view as some of you seem to have. It must be easier living that way.
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Well yes, balance does involve nerfing things that are too strong. I thought that was pretty obvious.
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There isn’t much they can do to Nurse to make her loopable. If they put blinks on a cooldown then she HAS to be at least 110% movement speed. They already said that they are mainly reworking her add-ons. I don’t believe they’ll butcher Nurse. She is still going to be the best killer in the game.
Spirit on the other hand can be butchered by making her terrible like she was on the PTB. People have already said they’ll whine like babies to advocate a change for Spirit after they change Nurse. I doubt they’ll make any of the strong killers extremely weak.
Poor Hag got a change a short time ago, please don’t change her.
I play both sides 50/50 and I can loop most killers for a long time despite not being as good of a survivor as I once was. Nurse and Spirit (somewhat Hag) change this because they can’t be looped easily. I enjoy a challenge and being able to change my playstyle instead of mindlessly looping a weak ass Leatherface.
I get more Legion and Billy players than Nurse and Spirit anyways.
Think of your playstyle and changing it instead of bitching and moaning for stronger killer to get nerfed.
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Nothing meaningful will happen to the Spirit so you guys can chill
Besides, there's absolutely NO WAY to butcher Nurse with her current kit. They're only gonna make small changes, they said. What small change can they do to butcher her? It's impossible. Her kit is inherently strong, you don't make her significantly weaker without changing core mechanics, which they won't do.
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Didn't they say that with legion? Didn't they say the ghostface changes were small?
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The GF changes were, indeed, small. If you can't play him right now it's on you.
Legion is a completely different story. If they said the changes were small, they were mistaken. On the other hand, people conveniently like to ignore that the Legion changes were overall power positive when compared to the way the killer was MEANT to be played anyway. You know, without cheesing game mechanics to win chases every single time.
I do think Legion needs a complete overhaul to be both good and healthy, but I can't take anyone who thinks old Legion was healthy for the game seriously.
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@gantes True...a small change will not hurt the Nurse’s base kit. It is already super strong. If it is indeed a small change, she will still be super strong.
They haven’t mentioned changing Spirit but she is the next strongest killer people complain about. I am doubtful anything will happen to her to be honest, just sick of hearing bitching over and over again.
Old Legion was a curse...Legion overall is an AWFULLY designed killer. Never should’ve seen the light of day.
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Exactly.
And the devs already said they ain't planning on changing Spirit. As much as I wish she had more chase counterplay, she doesn't NEED nerfs and she doesn't compare to the Nurse in terms of overall power (Nurse lacks counterplay AND has better map pressure AND ends chases faster AND her power has no cooldown).
I wouldn't worry about base Spirit. I wouldn't worry about anything other than Prayer Beads really, that's the only thing I see seeing actually nerfed.
Legion is such a bad design it hurts. This killer was always bad if you didn't cheese the chases. Hell, they were even worse. (I do count the previous deep wound reducing timer on hit mechanic as cheese because it required no skill and I doubt they saw through all the consequences that design had when they made the killer). It's sad that they need to be held down to not be unhealthy, but I honestly prefer Legion to be bad than to ruin everyone's experience like before.
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1-The Legion was one of the few good designs in dbd. A good design is not copy&paste from one character to another (looking at you m1 killers, basicly) and a good design let you choose how you want to play your character.
Further then that, its design introduce thes archtype of a fast stabbing killer into dbd. Something the game hasen't before and that was something that has also many people join the dbd community (me included). The Legion advertisment video had exactly promiset what many people had look for.
2-Surviors tend to say that we killers should look at the things differently. That is a legit argument. The thing is... Survivors prove always that they can't do the same in return.
If the Legion was so unhealthy to the game, why I had in my endgame chats people that had thank me for a challenging game? Why was the Legion the only reason to buy dbd?
That sounds for me pretty healthy^^.
Imo, the survivors in the forums have just their personal hatred. You see it even on the arguments. Mostly they start then to talk about exploits, or no counterplay, aka. they forget that also survivors had play with exploits and they resist to read tutorials, or watch videos that could help them.
In every other game, that behavior would not even worth mentioning besides a "rofl", but here it leads to nerfs :|.
The truth is, while many people accept that the Legion had darker sites, some people are not be able to see the other site. The site were people have enjoy playing the Legion and playing against the Legion.
Besides, I have seen in the Legion and Nurse nerf threads a behavior what I really find disgusting.
It is ok to be pro nerf for Legion, or Nurse, or to be against it... We all have our opinions, but... To go then in a thread and celebrate the nerf, just to put more salt in the wounds of the playerbase that has now to struggle with the nerfs and has lost more interest in the game they had like to play?
No thanks... I have never post in a survivor/perk nerf thread and I will for sure not celebrate if surviovrs got nerfed. Not important if we talk then about a nerf I can understand for them, or not.
My experience with survivors is totally different when I look at the game and then in the forums and I at least can see the difference.
Why survivors see always and only the exploiting killers, or op addon using killers? I don't get it.
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Dude, the overwhelming opinion of the community was that Legion was unhealthy. What you present is anecdotal.
Erasing individual skill from the game is unhealthy. Being literally unable to lose chases is unhealthy.
A chase is an interaction between two players. When that interaction becomes essentially a PVE game (because Legion required no skill to win chases) it's bad design.
Also, I celebrate whenever I think the game is going to a good place balance wise. I celebrated the hell out of MoM and DS nerfs for example. I want the game to be good, I'm happy when things that will make the game better happen.
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It all has to do with who is loopable. A Wraith, Clown, *Docktah, etc with their strongest add-ons never get complaints because they can be looped to hell. Nobody cares that trapper uses pink brick. His traps are garbage and can be so easily dispatched. People only complain when the threatening killers are actually... Threatening.
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I'll toast a scotch in your honour once 3 blink Nurses are ######### buried.
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1-The Legion had counterplay, but I will not waste any words here to that, if not absolutly necessary, because of what I said before.
2-The Legion had need not more or less skill, as any other character in the game.
If you really like to show skill, start watching counterplay videos to the killers you have a problem with. That would be the first step to show skill.
Besides that, dbd is not Stacract Broodwar, it is also not Counter Strike, or Battlefield. Dbd is a game that has a easy learning curve in some way.
You just need to spent enough time with your favorite character and you are good enough for the most situations and that is good. I don't need the time back, where I needed to play 8h+/day to be good enough to play with someone that calls himself a "pro", nor I would have today the time for it.
Dbd has its errors, but the learning curve is it definitely not.
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YES
The day when people who put extra blink + greek range and think they're the ######### will need to learn the game to get to red ranks
That will be THE day.
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STAB STAB STAB STAB STAB
cooldown
STAB STAB STAB STAB STAB
the counterplay was hoping the Legion player was bad enough to miss the attack several times and wait for the power to run out
and he could just do it again so it wasn't really counterplay
but surely, you're right. Sorry.
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I agree with the OP in all except in his defense of Legion moonwalking, that's an exploit and not fair at all.
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I still think 3 blinks will be an ultra rare add-on for Nurse. Not saying it should, but I have a feeling that one of her pink add-ons is gonna add an extra blink.
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If Nurse is allowed to be BS with pink+purple add-on, I'm kinda fine with that.
I mean, Iri Head exists lol
As long as she's not BS with green+yellow anymore I'm fine
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