Let's talk about nerfing camping
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The Entity should kill the facecamp killer, she wants a hunt, it would be nice to see the entity mad at a bad player who keeps hitting you on the hook because he got mad because he was looped
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PSA: When one of their teammates is getting camped, the other survivors have a very simple counter they more often than not refuse to utilize: focusing on the remaing generators. This counter produces a 75% win-rate for them, which in any normal game would be considered insanely overpowered and in need of a sledgehammer-nerf.
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We have stayed, haven't we? ;-)
I have got my share of being camped and doing the camping.
As survivor I have to get better at losing the killer or stay hidden.
As killer I have to get matched against survivors that do generators or save efficiently, instead of just staying near the hook signaling me to leave :-P
The moment the mayority of survivors stop being lazy and counter camping effectively, I will stop camping.
I applaud your entusiasm. Maybe you can make a guide to teach survivors how to counter camping. I know I wont ;-)
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The best "nerf to camping" would be flashing red letters that say "IF THE KILLER CAMPS, DO GENERATORS" on the screens of the survivors. And killer for that matter, just to drive the point home.
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I'd agree those do make killer life all the more difficult..we already have a massive shortage of nurses from it, however the killer cues have been far worse on PC back when survivor was running rampant with ds and mettle so I'm still not going to just say "oh survivor is just so miserable rn" because I'd be lying to say I believed it..the changes survivors have gotten have been nothing..honestly ? If everyone would try a few perks..they should try self care with botany , it's a very useful two perk combo that has multiple uses and has brought me great success..but here I am..messing around my builds for fun while killer I tailor my builds 4th perk to best suit the killer because I cant afford to pull punches..now I'll agree solo can be rough..just last night had a 3 man swf farming with the killer..I wasnt included in that so as it was a plague and they had cleansed repeatedly..well..let's just say I got farmed and tunneled to oblivion..but..that only ensued because my team screwed me, not the killer..but the solo experiance is going to be massively empowered in the near future so it's only going to get easier for survivor and much harder for killer as I see it
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Camping is a di%& move from assassins, so it is survivors t-bag for everything they do.
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I love that everyone claims 'Camping will chase away new Survivors' & offer solutions that would chase away new Killers...But these same people never mention that part. 🤔
It's almost like they don't really care about balance or the health of the game. They just want to skew the power dynamic more towards Survivor & get something they can abuse.
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New killers are gonna camp because they'd be too unsure with themselves if they can allow such a thing to happen. Newbies having a hard game and finally catching a survivor would most certainly camp to make sure that survivor died.
Leaving the hook requires confidence and experience, both something new players lack.
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All im gunna say is unless the Gates are open and theres not a good chance of getting someone else or if the survivor your camping was super toxic or annoying, dont camp. Your just wasting your time along with the person your camping. Your not getting better at the game and your more than likely getting less than 18k bp which is actually less than getting no kills but still being active and getting hits and hooks. Hell i dont camp so i would not know but i bet your also not ranking up or are barely getting pips so your ruining the newer players experience.
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I don't know what to tell you anymore. If you just want to ignore our points on why we actally want to nerf camping, then do so. But it really can't be too hard to understand that that is not our point.
I doubt it would chase many killers away, they can still play the game, unlike the survivor being camped.
And how often are we supposed to tell you we want a nerf to camping that can't be abused?
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i believe you also are ignoring very clear and valid points that demonstrate there is already a nerf to camping: it's called being a skilled survivor and breaking the camp.
nerfing camping even further would just remove the need for skill on the survivor's part allowing anyone to play the game without skill.. please look into getting skills..
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Camper is an ok strategy, as infinite loops were . You can counter campers doing gens, and you could counter infinite loops stopping the chase. Campers get low amount of bps and Depip. People who run infinite loops didn’t do gens or anything else, so low bp and depip
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What? My point is it's too effective against less experienced players. I get that camping isn't a good strategy. I just don't want camping to drive away less experienced players. It's not fun, and nerfing it will probably discourage more people to doing so.
Also, how does it remove the skill needed to play survivor? It only removes the skill to counter camping some more, which isn't hard anyways, it's just that less experienced players don't know how to, and solo survivors can't tell each other that the killer is camping. But why would that be a problem, if countering camping took less skill? Standing in front of a hooked survivor and watching them bleed out takes absolutely 0 skill.
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To be fair, killers are getting thee infinite loops removed with the upcoming map reworks. At least that's what the devs said, and I really hope they do so, because they as well are bad design, and top of that not good for the game's balance.
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i believe my underlying point is people are too focused on "camping" being a bad thing to realize that it's not a bad thing at all.. it's a good thing.. not because the other survivors can rush objectives and leave, but because it gives newer players an easy target to practice a skill that people don't even like to acknowledge exists.
practicing and getting experience breaking a camp ultimately lends to a skill that actually makes you a much better player. instead of putting the idea into newer players heads that something needs to be "nerfed", you should be putting the idea into their heads that it's really easy to just gain the skill that counters it..
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Okay so your problem seems to be low rank killers pushing new people away. Blame the devs for not explaining you need to hook and leave.
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You've got a valid point, but I still feel like instead of learning how to counter it, new players will just be frustrated and leave. They won't want to learn that skill because they aren't enjoying the game. That's my fear.
Who knows, maybe I am underestemating new players in that regard, but with all the complaints there are about camping, I feel like they just will not want to put up with that.
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brand new players are supposed to be protected from the sweatiest (for the most part) by players not being able to depip past rank 15. the brown ranks are supposed to be for relatively new players.
at the end of the day the game is literally "see if you can escape from a really bad person who's trying to kill you", and if that's not what someone is into, maybe they're looking in the wrong place.
i don't think the game needs to be altered to something different so they end up getting surprised later when they find out it's a pretty big part of the game. you either want to play the game for what it is, or you want to giggle at someone when they walk past you and don't see you.. that's not playing the game..
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I prefer rewarding the killer to be honest! Maybe while the survivor is hooked, the killer gets a bonus to generator regression? :)
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Honestly I can't think of a good counter to camping as the killers who do it generally just dont care. I honestly hate people who do it. Low ranks I fully understand as people haven't yet started the journey as a killer, but I would like a solution other then reduced emblem.
The progression bar cant stop if killer is x meters near simply because good survivors will loop the killer within x meters.
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a good survivor would not loop the killer within X meters.. that's what a really bad survivor would do, just FYI.. a good survivor would do what it took to get the guy off of the hook.. looping the killer next to the guy on the hook guarantees the hooked person isn't coming down (most of the time).
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I agree as it is now since that just guarentees a death, but with those changes it would become more common practice as there would be no risk to the hooked survivor except maybe exerting some finger strain lmao. I feel as Borrowed Time becomes even more common since it would be BT and DS making that a brutal and effective combo.
Just my thoughts on the killer proximity to survivors stopping the progression bar.
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if i'm on the hook right now and people don't unhook me within 60s, it's not uncommon for me to forget to hit the struggle button so i can move on to the next game. 60s is a very good amount of time to rescue someone.
if you want me to hang there even longer, i think you'll be surprised to see that nobody's going to want to do that (beyond players that just don't know any better)
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Like I said, I'm all for rewards. I would just like to have both.
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Well that's why the progress bar should go back to normal whenever a survivors is also within x meters or if the killer is within a chase.
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If I'm being camped I'll wait it out since it means 1 or 2 people will escape the game. Your going to depip either way you may as well help the team out. I see tons of people just get on a hook and if no one immediately comes get them they just die off.
Survivor part I wouldn't mind, but chase part not so much.
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Why would you nerf something so integral to the game just to appease a small portion of the playerbase who should be irrelevant to the core game design? I mean, you even have a Freddy avatar. Do you remember when Fred launched, and was complete garbage, but lower rank no skill players hated facing him, so devs nerfed him even more, which left him completely and utterly worthless in high rank play. And then it took over a year for them to rework him into a still very meh M1 killer but at least somewhat entertaining to use?
And you're looking for a repeat of that for something as meaningless as camping killers? Remember that any change you make to benefit new players has a ripple effect that really changes high rank gameplay. I mean, imagine how this game is right now and how any killer not named Nurse, Spirit, or Billy, are pretty much f'd against most players at high rank and you're wanting to make it even harder for them to get kills, all because someone new at the game might have a tough time, if their killer decides to camp.
But oh, it will otherwise drive away survivors! Well, won't making the game even more survivor sided drive away killers? Or to word it better, if you want to nerf "camping" for the sake of new survivors, lets nerf looping for the sake of new killers. Imagine a new player buys the game for Demigorgon and his first map is Blood Lodge or Haddonfield. He gets ran from safe pallet to safe pallet on Blood Lodge and he gets looped repeatedly on Haddonfield by Claudette and Nea with balanced landing. He uninstalls the game. Wow! Way to go. How about if we remove safe pallets, and make exhaustion perks on time use? Sure, it will completely change high rank play, but think of all the new players we'll be saving!
As I said in another thread recently, if you want to discourage camping, either stop making stupid plays as survivor, or ask the devs to balance the game so that a killer doesn't feel they need to camp. I just had a match on a swamp map with Trapper. I was able to set the two traps I spawned with before my Ruin was instantly popped. On a map that big with a killer who needs minutes of time to set up to actually use my power, I was f'd. The survivors (SWF three stack) knocked out four gens, let the first person I hooked die, and escaped with a key. Literally nothing I could do.
HOWEVER. When I hooked one of them in the basement right by the hatch, I could have camped it. Sat on the stairs, made sure I hit anyone trying to rescue. But I left the shack, they got the save and I knew they had BT so there was no point in even trying to down them. In your scenario I'd have been punished for trying to secure one more kill but in reality it would have been the smart play. There are PLENTY of scenarios where hard patrolling a hooked survivor is the best play to make.
It's getting sadder and sadder with each new chapter seeing devs add in these perks that change up hook states and timers and giving second chance perks but doing nothing that actually addresses the core issues of the game, which are that gens are done way too quick and it's entirely too easy to loop a majority of the killers for a majority of the game. These are the things that lead to killers camping for the most part.
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@Liruliniel if i'm going to depip either way, why would i help the people that are forcing me to depip by taking longer for me to earn my depip when i could already be in another game earning big time BP and having a blast? just curious.
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Okay, I came up with a barely thought-through idea (like, I came up with the idea over the course of eating a snack) for trying to reward not-camping and punish camping. It's probably a terrible idea, and I don't really know what the specific numbers would be but I'm gonna try pitching it anyways because why not.
Whenever a Killer hooks a Survivor, the following comes into effect after X seconds and persists until there are no Survivors on a hook:
-As long as one or more Survivors are on a hook, Generator repair speed is increased by Y% for all Survivors unless the Killer is in a chase or carrying a Survivor. When the Killer exits a chase or stops carrying a Survivor, this effect returns after X seconds.
-As long as the Killer is in a chase or carrying a Survivor while one or more Survivors are on a hook, Generator repair speed is decreased by Z% for all Survivors. (Z may or may not be equal to Y in this case; I'm not sure.)
Basically, once you hook a Survivor, you have X seconds to find another Survivor and either start chasing them or down them so you can pick them up before Survivors gain a boost to Generator repair speed. But if you are in the middle of chasing or carrying a Survivor while someone is hooked, Survivor instead receive a penalty to Generator repair speed until either the chase ends, the Survivor lets go of someone (either because they broke free or because the Killer hooked them), or until they rescue everyone currently on a hook.
Does this make sense to anyone, or am I just crazy?
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Let's not punish camping. We can't pick and choose what strategies people choose.
I'd much rather reward those that leave then punish those that stay.
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Not the survivors fault your either camped or they are aware of the progression bar so grab you after a bit. If your being camped you can at least help them try and escape I understand if no one came for you on first stage and still not coming with you not being camped ofc. Also dont play survivor for blood points. After grinding all perks on my survivor main from survivor alone and then doing the same on my main killer. Survivors get a pitiful amount of BP'S in comparison.
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freddy was actually pretty dope when he came out.. because survivors have standardized some crappy "rush the objectives and run out of the door" meta in order for them all to feel like they "won" something even tho they really just skipped half of the game, there are many killers that seem insufficient and get boned.
it's not that the killer is particularly weak, it's that the rounds were supposed to take longer. nobody was actually supposed to think a 10k-13k bp gain for escaping a match was a "win" when you can easily get triple that as base, or up to 6x by only yourself playing 1 offering.
there is a lot of things to do in a game of dead by daylight, but players choose not to do them, and as a random survivor on that team or as a killer trying to play a game, that mentality of my "teammates" or "guests" is really just a super lame thing to have to deal with. if you don't enjoy getting chased by a killer why play a game about getting chased by a killer?
@TAG survivors not getting camped can already rush the generators fast enough without a repair speed bonus of any kind. an even faster game would be even more crappy than it already is and also less rewarding/fulfilling for everyone. i'm sorry but i just don't understand why rushing even faster is even a thing that people want.. if it's because you think the other people on your team don't have enough time to finish their gens individually, understand that they're probably not even working on them.. they probably WANT you to die.
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Well, if you start going after someone else instead of hanging by the hook, there's not only zero repair speed bonus, but there is a repair speed penalty instead.
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thank you for advising me not to play survivor for blood points. FYI, i get more BP playing survivor than most killers ever will (on average). the only thing makes me have low scoring rounds are teammates that don't actually understand how to play the game in a manner that makes it fun and rewarding.
this is one of the main reasons i enjoy solo queue so much. playing with "friends" usually just has you on a team with a bunch of potatos.. in solo queue, i may get potato teams, but if i put a little effort into avoiding immersed player looking lobbies, its not as hard as you might think to find some actual super-fun games. even if that means half of the people on the team are actively trying to get me killed, that's much better than half of the players on the team kickin back and watching me die. plus, i reserve the right to play anything i want in whatever manner i want.
understand that i am only here trying to help newer players out.. there aren't many people that have even a fraction of my hours, still play daily, and still enjoy it..
as for it not being the survivors' fault i'm being camped, you are correct.. it is the survivors' fault i'm STILL being camped because they have not extended their skillset enough to be able to help in this situation, nor are they even trying to. they think we can all just blame the killer for being an a-hole together and move on as friends. that's just not the way it works.
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i get where you're going, but understand this:
if i as killer put someone on a hook, there should already be a repair speed penalty happening.. (25% minimum). also, other people are supposed to care and see if they can come help, but for some reason they think it's cool not to.. that means the team is operating now at 75% optimal.
if i leave the hook and find another survivor, that survivor is now not working on a generator, dropping the team down to operating at a max of 50% of optimal. if 1 person is going to the hook (like they should be), that drops the team operation down to 25%, and if 2 people are going to the hook (like they should be usually), the team is operating at 0% optimal speed.
please explain how your repair speed penalty corrects or balances the numbers in any way better.
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Ya no problem I just learned who to effectively farm with and at what rank with as killer. At rank 10 with Spirit using BBQ&C and Ruin without Addons or offerings. I avg about 60k a game. Well your lucky honestly I can't stand farming BP'S with survivors. So I give you massive props for that.
I switched to a killer main awhile back because I wanted a break from survivor. It ended up being on PC all I play is Killer while on ps4 all I do is Survivor anymore.
Cant really argue with you on any of the other points because I've been there on both sides. Though as Survivor I would rather play with friends honestly. I'm prolly the potato survivor of my group.
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on a non potato survivor team, it is very easy for every survivor to get 28k-32k bp base.
add WGLF that doubles it, 56k-64k.. throw a cake or a bps, lets call it 75-90k.. if anyone else throws BPS or green envelope, easily over 100k per game, and the games are the proper length, about 10 minutes.. 5 per hour isn't asking a lot, so we're talking 250-500k per hour without even trying, depending on other survivors' gameplay.
i would say i average 60k bp as well per game, but my games are much shorter and i can be the first one dead to claim the 40-95k bp & move on to the next game.
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My idea basically pushes both ends to further extremes. Now instead of being kinda punished for camping, you are REALLY punished for camping. Now instead of kinda slowing down progress by going after other people (by getting a second person off the gens), you are REALLY slowing down progress. You are basically forcing the Killer to work towards finding other people, and that in response forces Survivors to work toward making the rescue ASAP instead of trying to top off a Gen first.
You talk about how "for some reason, they think it's cool not to", but that's because if becomes obvious that the Killer is hard camping, it is just more efficient overall to buckle down and bust them gens than to go for the rescue. They are comfortable being 75% optimal when the Killer is kinda being 0% optimal. Even if the Killer is not necessarily hard camping, sometimes it is still better to finish the Gen first before making the save so you've pushed the team one step closer to overall escape.
When the Killer is going after someone else, one person can still tackle Generators while the second goes for the rescue. Because as long as the Killer is occupied with a chase, what harm is there for only one person going for the rescue? With this idea, the Survivor still tackling the gen is now doing so at a slower speed, further bringing down Survivor progress and giving the Killer just a little more time to work on that chase.
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if the killer kills you, he has to put in effort to do it. while he is putting in the effort, you are getting points and experience.
the more effort the killer has to put into killing you, the more points and experience you get.
if the killer never sees you, you get no points and no experience.
escaping a level with no points and no experience is equivalent to cheating on a very important exam.
that's really all i'm trying to say.. as it is, people are already cheating on the exam.. you want them to cheat even better/worse depending on actions of the killer, but the actions of the killer are already making them cheat better or worse.. i don't think skewing in either direction is better than just learning how to deal with a killer who is camping and becoming a better player.
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If the Survivors aren't potato then the games won't last proper length.
Optimal play in this game just so happens to not be what the progression system is designed for. But that doesn't make it any less optimal.
If the optimal strategy for a game is unfun then that's the fault of the game and not the fault of the people using the strategy.
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No, the equivalent of cheating on an exam is using hacks to win.
This is the equivalent of easily answering all the of the questions on the exam correctly and then being told off for not studying for the exam that you already knew the answers to.
If you have a legit, low effort solution that is more effective than the high effort one, then if you are trying to maximize your winrate then you ought use that solution.
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i think fault for that belongs with the people that take it upon themselves to decide that the "optimal play" and/or "optimal strategy" is sub-sub-par performance and then spread that propaganda to other players as "optimal play" and/or "optimal strategy", not game mechanics or design.
as we've covered in other threads, just because you decided there's a "win condition" in a casual game does not make that true. some games, especially casual ones, are literally there just for people to have a good time with.
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i will not argue this with you again, but usually a pass/fail win/lose system has some sort of threshold you must meet in order to be deemed "passing". where i'm from that number is 70%.. if you do less than said percentage, you are still a failure. keeping in mind of course that you had to "complete" the task in order to be "scored", so "completing" is not the same as "passing", nor "winning".
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Well if you escape then that's 100% of the task. It's binary so there isn't any equivalent of "70%".
Bloodpoints aren't even a relevant metric.
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congratulations, you 100% last in line, end of your class, with a technical binary pass only because i don't have a cookie or a bottle to give you so you can go nighty-night.
emblem points are displayed to you in a 0-100% fashion. so are category points while you're earning them in game. many "tests" or "trials" are made up of different parts. you nailed one of them. :)
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Ok tell you what.
YOU try and hook rush. See how that goes for you, ima just do the actual objective, see if you can actually reach the line at all with any real consistency, then we will talk.
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Oh and if you want to talk emblems:
Hook bombing ######### up all 4 of them
* You lose benevolence because unsafe hooks have a penalty
* You lose chaser due to being downed yourself due to running straight into the Killer where he can grab you or insta-down you if he's capable
* You lose unbreakable due to at the very least being downed and probably being Killed
* You lose lightbringer because you could have spent that time doing gens instead.
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just cuz you're a horribly unskilled player doesn't mean you need to be issuing challenges friend :)
recognize anyone here? tell the community again how bad of a survivor i am.. this was last night :) feel free to check their vods & see what games with players like me are like. compare them to your own experiences.. til then i'm only mildly entertained by your insults & challenges.
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p.s. @NuclearBurrito
i would never ever ever trade 1 extra unbreakable and/or lightbringer emblem point for making sure every game i ever played was the most boring experience i've ever had.. :)
that's what people do when they are afraid, and that's okay, but don't try to convince me i don't know what i'm doing because my nuts dropped. :)
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Can we just drop this topic? All it boils down too is both sides "REEEEEEEEEE"ing at each other. It's not constructive at all.
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