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Should Moris Activate After Two Hooks?
I feel like It would be more fair if (For example) the ebony mori activates after two hooks, instead of one. It would allow the killer to get more points and would also allow the survivors to last more than 3 minutes in a match without having to search for the next one because they died. I can't count how many times I've been tunneled and mori'd in the first 5 minutes of a match by a toxic killer and teammates who don't know how to cooperate.
By increasing the amount of hooks required it would allow both survivors and killers to get more points because the game would last a little longer. This would not affect the Cypress Memento Mori because that allows you to mori the LAST survivor, someone who's chances of escaping are significantly decreased.
What do you all think? Would this be a good change or would it be a terrible idea?
Comments
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Not a good idea. You would still have to down them 3 times so it would make using moris useless.
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Why not make ebony base but only useable on death hook.
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Making Moris require two hooks to kill wastes more time than just hooking the Survivor the last time. At the same time, a Survivor who goes Phase 2 in the one hook might not be able to get Killed unless you mean ‘mori on death hook only’.
Even then, it’s significantly more time efficient to just hook a Survivor when they’re death hook. Half of the Moris in the game are upward of 10 seconds and some even go into the 20s, which is a massive time waster, rather than spending only a few seconds just hooking the Survivor for the last time and leaving immediately.
Moris shouldn’t be second-hook only because that makes them entirely worthless. Maybe the Ebony should require every Survivor be hooked once each before being able to Kill everyone, but not Ivory Memento Moris.
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@Judgement It is more time efficient for killer, but for survivor that's really ain't the case.
On the survivor side it could be more wasteful because lobbies can sometimes take forever, then getting mori'd in the first 5 minutes just to wait even more time for another match. Having the mori activate on death hook would make the killer work harder without having to spend time going to a hook or risk be decisive stiked when you know they are dead on hook. It also would allow other survivors the chance to help instead of just going "Oh, well that was quick".
They wouldn't be worthless either because there is still the daily's that involve them. Aside from the daily's, the only other reason for really using a mori are when your like "Imma ######### up this match for them"
I feel that longer matches are better and more fun, but matches that are over too quick are pointless.
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Ebony shouldnt exist at all.
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The entire point of a mori is to bypass the 2 remaining hook states
If you remove it than absolutely no one would run them because mori-ing a survivor takes an insane amount of time on some killers and you get less points for it
Honestly I don't care about Moris and would be glad to get rid of them if keys and insta heals were also removed
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@MegsAreEvil Tool boxes shouldn't exist.
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Do you really, REALLY want to compare those things? Will you really, REALLY show us how bad your understanding of the game is? Or do you just want to troll?
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@MegsAreEvil Moris are a way to end the match faster for killer. Tool boxes are a way to end the match faster for survivors. That's how I compared them. And yeah I'm trolling, trolling you. You never gave me a counter argument or anything else really.
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It takes around 10 seconds to pick someone up and bring them to a hook in most occasions. Then you have the hook animation, and let's not forget the potential of people appearing in front of you when you down someone/trying to flashlight save, which can waste more time. I disagree that a mori takes longer than a hook, and I have yet to see a 20 second mori.
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Nurse and Hag would like a word.
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They should be removed from the game, just like insta heals.
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Nurse mori takes 10-11 seconds, Hag takes around 14. No killer goes over 14 seconds.
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Sure
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Survivors have a combination of 12 hooks, and a Ebony Mori reduces that to 4 hooks.
If something can instantly remove more than 50% of your objective then it is definitely OP, especially when it doesn't take a lot of skill to hook someone once.
Ebony Mori definitely need to be looked at in my opinion, so I definitely support @Judgement's idea. :)
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It'd be nice if there were a mori that would allow you to kill only in the end game, like rancor but not tied to the obsession.
On the killer side it lets you get a cinematic kill and some bonus points, potentially on someone who ISN'T dead on hook without playing camping games in the end game.
On the survivor side, it can't remove you from the game before you've had a huge opportunity to make points and play the game already.
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Ghostface has a very long Mori, which I can only guess to be nearly 20 seconds.
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@Judgement It's actually close to 14 seconds. @Atrushan88 Was pretty much right in saying no killers mori goes over 14 seconds.
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GhostFace's is actually 12. The only ones that are 14 are Hag, Plague, and Clown(I think that's it). Pig's is the shortest. Iirc it was like 6 or 8 seconds(Edit: Right in the middle, 7 seconds). I was looking at them all to verify what I was saying was true. In case you're wondering, most are around 11 seconds.
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Ah, thank you for correcting me.
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I'm for a three hook thing. And remove ebony. At the same time, I would allow keys to only let the holder escape. If an ebony shouldn't be allowed to kill four survivors, keys shouldn't allow four survivors to escape.
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No. What's the point of a Mori if you could just hook them instead?
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Absolutely not takes away the power to eliminate power from a strong team who can blast through gens with perfect skill checks.
And good survivors you probably won't see them until they've completed at least two generators.
Mine you still have to catch them which is quit difficult, if there running you to all the pallets on the map.
If you have been playing this game a while a killers natural instinct will be to give survivor's two hooks for fairness and points for themself.
I think that would be to time consuming for a killer there's going to be toxic killers on here that can't be help but they are free to play as they wish.
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Yes, they absolutely should activate after 2 hooks. Moris should be just a cool way to kill survivors. I don't get how people still defend them. If there was an ultra rare offerring for survivors that made you do 3 gens instead of 5, would you be okay with that too?
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@arslaN Please try to be serious
You would do away with Mori's, but have survivor keep Brand New Part ,Tool Boxes, etc. and all while having a single killer take down 4 survivor's and having to hook each survivor twice which often you'll be in a chase with each survivor 1:30 seconds two 2:00 minutes 10 seconds to hook if you multiply that.
It's a total of 14 minutes which is basically the standard match time but,some survivor's are able to get out in 9 minutes which Mori's cut half that time and I'll say once again takes away the power of a really strong team.
It's not a good idea to change them or remove anything.The entire thing is balanced this way.
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You mean like keys?
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Equivalent suvivor's offering: Do 2 gens and the doors open
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So you think an omega blink nurse or a prayer beads spirit using ebony mori is balanced? Nothing about mori's are balanced. You have to hook survivors 12 times at max, you are cutting that to just 4. How is that balanced in any way? If you still can't win with an ebony mori, you are just bad at the game, period.
You should blame yourself if your chases last 2 minutes. Brand new parts aren't even that useful but still I agree that gen times are problematic on weak killers.
You say that moris cut the power of a strong team, but they also absolutely ruin the chances of a standart solo survivor team, which is most of the time, the kind of team you will be going against.
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It'd make them useless.
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Get rid of all the moris! and the broken key! >.<
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The only difference with keys and moris is that the killer can see before the match if someone is bringing a key and he can choose to dodge playing that game (although there is still a small chance a survivor will find a key in a chest.)
I think it would be good if they could somehow implement an option system to where survivors can avoid playing in games where a killer brings an ebony mori. I don't think survivors should be forced to play in a game that unbalanced unless they want to. Some survivors might like the extra challenge but I imagine most just find it annoying and tiresome. Sorta like how I feel when I play Spirit for the fifth time in a row.
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Keys in no way require 3 gens to complete in order to escape, unless you're the last survivor, in which the hatch opens automatically anyways. You need 5 gens for a 4 escape through the hatch with a key. You need 3 hits per survivor for a 3 or 4K with a mori, instead of 4(with no one healing). That's 12 hits instead of 16, but since if you're not using a mori, you're not gonna be right there at the hook waiting for them to be unhooked, they'll likely heal health states, meaning instead of 4 per survivor, it'd go up to 6 hits per survivor. If they managed to heal a health state with a mori, that'd be 4 hits. So you got 16 hits vs 24. You're taking away 12 health states at max with a mori, but most likely you'd be taking off 24, because with a mori generally you just wait for them to be unhooked so you can immediately down and mori them the second they get off. I will never understand how people can compare a mori to keys when they're nothing alike.
You can argue keys reward failure to ONE OR TWO PEOPLE, but moris increase one entire side's chances of winning from the get go.
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I think that mor's are fine. The point of bringing them is to get rid of a survivor or multiple quickly. I know that it really sucks as a survivor but thats their purpose.
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Survivors have a combination of 12 hooks, and a Ebony Mori reduces that to 4 hooks.
Nah, that's a false way of looking at it. The Mori animation is the equivalent of one hook state so it only removes 4 hook state, not lowers it to 4.
A better way to look at Moris is that optimally a survivor has to be chased 3 timed to be killed, a total of 12 times for the survivor team. Ebony removes 1 chase per person. So it's only a 33% reduction.
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Do you know survivors can imagine a killer have a mori because they don't see the offering at the begging? Do you know that a DC before the game start is not a DC and you don't depip or lose any item?
So killers use mori because survivors want, because if 1 survivor DC before the game start you'll never use your mori. And this suck as a killer too, you can be 10 hours waiting to play a game :D
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Remove keys, flashlights and insta heals then we can see about nerfing moris
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sure.
if you build moris into every killers basekit that is.
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And instadown, of course
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If u have ever played killer you know that you have to work hard for the ability to instadown and NOED can be countered by cleansing the totem.
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Sure but then insta heal add-on should only activate when going down.
No ? That's what I thought.
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I'm talking about killers that can instadown you. And NOED and hatches,...
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All killers that have an instadown worked into their ability can be countered. Myers and ghostface are harder to counter but still the amount of time they waste stalking you they should get an instadown. I don’t know what your talking about with hatches it’s unfair that they can be closed that’s the only defense the killer has in case of a key or if your the last survivor.
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I just want Mori's to be left alone. But I'm willing to consider concessions on the Ebony Mori and ONLY the Ebony Mori. The other two mori's do not impact the game as dramatically as the other two.
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You can wait to mori as your right it does get you more points. That's what I do because I want more BP. I don't think it should be changed as it gives the killer the option to either prolong the match for BP or slow down the match.
When I play survivor and the match lasts 2 minutes because of bad luck or crap survivors I sometimes msg the killer.
Often often times they have no idea about the 2 hook more BP strategy. I'm a red/purple rank survivor so it's always surprising that killers in those ranks don't know but are always grateful for the tip. (I play on PS4)
I wish tips like this showed up when loading in like other good tips I've seen on here...
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@anarchy753 that's not true. As a survivor you can be mori'd and get 300-1kpts especially when a survivor spawns right next to you.
I always feel bad when that happens though... Sometimes it's bad luck especially when I get 4 of the same survivors in a match or twins etc. And to be fair it's not always survivors being toxic that have the same outfits, some are just popular or a new DLC has dropped.
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Offerings shouldn't have such an impact on the outcome of a match. So yes please. Equipping an Ebony Mori is pretty much just an insta win button, unless you are maybe playing bottom tier like Wraith against absolutely optimal survivors.
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There are 3 hook states, and the killer's goal is to get the survivor to the third hook state:
Summoning Phase, Struggle Phase, and Sacrifice Phase.
Once you hooked everyone once, everyone is now on the Struggle Phase on their next hook. However, instead of having to hook them twice: Catch, Struggle Phase, Unhook, Catch, and Sacrifice Phase — Ebony Mori ends the survivor when they only lost 1 life out of 3 lives. Survivors don't lose a life when they enter the dying state — only when they are hooked.
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It’s not more than 50%, you’re over exaggerating. You still have to down the person twice out of the usual 3 times.
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I agree that moris, at least Ebony, aren't balanced
But making them available after 2nd hook would make them essentially useless
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