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Perks for fixes
When a spirit counter is listed it cant be a perk as a counter, so we cant just say use iron will to counter spirit specificall(even though it's good against 16 of the other killers but ok).
When killers ask how do I counter infinites? Were told "just leave them" or "use bamboozled If you hate it that much". That's the same argument as "just mindgame the spirit" and "just use iron will".
But why? Why do killers get all their issues solved by something you have to ######### buy or get lucky with the shrine?
Items? Just use Franklin's demise 4head or just git gud and play around it.
Looping? Use bamboozled or spirit fury noob. Or just mindgame lol.
How do I slow down the gens? Use Ruin, Pop or Corrupt. Or just pressure them lmao.
Before anyone tries to crucify me, this isn't at anyone specifically, I know killers do similar thing but I see it so much more on survivors side, why? I want someone to explain why all killer fixes are perks but one survivor fix that's a perk or multiple is unacceptable?
Comments
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NO ONE wants band aid solutions for anything. Why are you even assuming this? None of these things are acceptable.
If using iron will every match is acceptable just because there's the same issue on the other side, why are you guys saying spirit is fine? It isn't justified because the same thing is on the other side as well.
It is less of a problem on the killer side because those perks work against all survivors. Bringing iron will just in case you get 1 out of 17 killers is even more stupid.
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I never said people want them,I said some accept them for one side but not their own, and I'm rank 3 for survivor and cant not count the amount of times iron will has helped me against every killer. I can sneak behind walls or make any killer question if I'm even there, it also let's me stay injured all game with even litter downside. Iron will isnt anti spirit, it's a stealth perk/ objective completion time, you dont have to heal if you dont want to be found with it and can in turn work on gens, this combined with adrenaline, resilience and dh or sb can be disgusting as you dont have to waste time healing because of a single perk.
Point is iron will is go against almost all killers, the only issue is that its really good against spirit.
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No one should be forced to use a specific perk, just to have a decent chance against something. You can't justify that in any way. Yes, it is useful against all killers, but that doesn't make it fine, sorry.
By your logic, bamboozle works in every loop, so you should use it every match just in case you get a map with a broken loop. Bamboozle is good at all loops, but it is really good in broken loops.
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I didnt say its required, you said "Bringing iron will just in case you get 1 out of 17 killers is even more stupid." As if iron will is like small game vs huntress because you hate trapper, the perk isnt useless otherwise, but Franklin's can be if no items are brought, or spirit fury if you dont get looped at pallets or the survivor throws early.
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I know iron will is good against all killer, I use it a lot myself but what if I want to use something else? Do I have to use one of my perk slots for IW every match?
Once again, using bamboozle every match is justified by your logic. Since it's useful all the time, you should use it every match since it can save you if you get some certain maps.
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The killer see the survivors, so he can prepare.
Lots of items? franklins.
Keys? Mori.
That doesn't apply to bs loops in maps. But it does show why using a perk against specific survivor builds is ok but not the other way around.
Since survivors dont see the killer (and they shouldn't) they cant prepare in the same way.
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A better comparison would have been ruin or pop since Maps like the game have next to no windows, and I would love to see more perk diversity on both sides while also not adding weighted gear to yourself in the match.
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Most survivors switch items on last second or switch character last second to exploit this, and even if I can see them, why should a perk be a counter? As I've said before irom will is always good and cant be nullified by the other side naturally, for Franklin's you dont bring items. And its useless.
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There's a bit of a double standard going on here. The same can be said for camping or tunneling. The answer to those are Borrowed Time and Decisive Strike respectively. There are certain things on both sides that can be countered by perks.
That does not, however, mean that anyone should need to bring a specific perk just in case someone picks 1 of the 17 killers. That would be like having to bring Iron Maiden just in case someone is using Head On. Or to use a more practical example from the past, having to bring Iron Grasp just in case people sabotage hooks.
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lol ur bad git gud nub
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See with everything you just listed has counters that arent perks, my original post wasnt about how you need perks because killers do, it was stating that survivors arent the only one forced to use perks "just in case". You can bait head on or slug through sabotage. But there are perks to make it better for people that dont like theres options, its the same with spirit, you can counter her without iron will if you make a correct read or guess, the trick is to force her to guess as well, or attempt to stay uninjured for as long as possible, but if you so get injured you can have iron will to help if you do. It's not neccessary but will help alot.
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While iron will is not valid, mindgaming is a valid form of counterplay.
Unlike "just leaving them" it actually does lead to the desired outcome and thus qualifies.
If you just leave them at the loop then they end up not being hit. But if you mindgame the Spirit then you do avoid the hit.
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Just use iron will and no mither to counter stridor spirit kid. U git gud losar
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If you'd like, we can hop in a custom game and you can show me how you'd counter tunneling or camping without Decisive Strike or Borrowed Time. I'm willing to be proven wrong if you're up for it.
The point is that bringing a perk to counter a general behaviour that you can face regardless of who you're playing against is okay (e.g. Camping, any killer can camp). Bringing a perk to counter one specific thing is not. You cannot expect everyone to run a perk to counter something specific unless they know in advance what they're facing.
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FILTHY SPIRIT MAIN
You dare to assume I shouldn't have the advantage in a loop? When theres 4 of us and one of you, we should get the upper hand because your just an entitled killer that wants easy 4ks.
On a serious note, if you try to mindgame her not just give up, you'd find its alot easier than you'd think.
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I play on xbox and if I get friends then sure I'd gladly show you the counter, and tell you now.
If a killer chooses to tunnel down or focus one survivor you have multiple ways to try to combat it, #1 rush gens, if hes camping or only chasing one specifically then you should be rushing gens for your team.
#2 you attempt to body block and get the Killers attention, if this fails you take a hit if you can and immediately rush gens.
If a killer chooses to only focus one survivor then 3 others should be on gens to punish the killer for failing to pressure multiple Survivors.
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That isnt a counter to help you personally.
It all relies on the others in the game and if the killer is camping it doesnt help you it helps those others, also taking a hit may work in an SWF but what about solo players? could you do it without needing your friends?
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If someone Saves and leaves you to go down again thats a misplay on the survivors part, and let's say you have bt or ds, whoever unhooked doesn't. The cycle would repeat until the killer gets a 4man handed to him or he messes up somehow.
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I could do it without my friends but getting in a kyf without people you know is a bit hard.
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Thats not the point I was making and a completely different scenario, I was responding to the "just do gens" remark which still doesnt help you personally.
While its the best strat against camping it in no way counters anyone hooked dying.
You could have any random people not just friends who actively want to protect you, I am sure if Peanits could get on xbox it could be set up.
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I think most things just boil down to skill. People that lack certain skills require better perks to improve their chances of success. A crutch, if you will. Constantly using these perks can end up becoming a hindrance if a player becomes reliant on them.
Edit: Before anyone yells at me for using the word "crutch," they aren't bad, but crutches are literally meant to help you when you need them and are discarded after a period of time. One shouldn't use them when they are no longer needed.
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no u bed i gud, git gud lasoe i wun u loos sucku
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For 1 was was working for 2, his point was how do you counter it and I gave counters, those counters have variables yes but their pretty consistent.
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And 3 you can talk when you make your own point bud.
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And if he wanted to I would be up for it, gt and times all I need.
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My point is pretty much Peanit's point. I also don't need to have a point to point out that you're talking nonsense, anyone can see that.
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In which regard? My point that if a killer wont leave a hook you should punish him for that? Or if he wont chase anyone but one person rush gens?
Saying spirits counters arent looping and are not iron will? If a survivor has iron will and keeps running their going down, but what if a survivor runs to a pallet and then throws it the side they came from? The spirit will think they threw it on the side they ran and then attempt to punish that, or the spirit reads this and baits it. Theres multiple scenarios for this I could mention.
Or that perks are often given to killers for fixes? But survivors having a perk that's not a counter to spirit but can help alot against her and most killers isn't that bad?
Which point didnt make sense? I'd love to have it explained.
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And then they all spent on auric cells to fix the game. Ez
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Have you heard of a perk called Stridor by chance?
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"PeRKs arENt A cOUNtEr sPiRi.... SuRvIvOR mAIn"
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Did you just have an aneurysm or something?
Stridor counters Iron Will, now what?
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I never said iron will was a counter I said it will help if your mindgame against her is enough, stridor is a perk and perks can not counter things because that's invalid.
Idk i always hear that iron will isnt a counter so it cant be mentioned, my point is that a perk will help you avoid going down and another perk is a counter, so unless iron will is a complete counter to spirit, stridor is not a complete counter to iron will, you can still fast vault and slow vault back and you can still reverse pallets. Stridor will help spirit counter your perk and mindgame but, it will not guarantee it if you can make distance and a decent mindgame to make her make a mistake.
Spirit reverses the way the game is to survivors, normally the killer has to bait a survivor into a mistake to get a hit/down. But as spirit the survivors have to bait spirit into a mistake to avoid going down, if that system isnt fair then the other 14 killers that have to follow it would love to be viable.
Viable means that even against the best survivors your have a chance, look at the top survivors and then look at the best Billy in the world, it's not even a killer vs survivor game then, its looped by daylight because the survivors are skilled, sure the hillbilly can catch them into a dead zone but in the end the survivor has to make a mistake in order for hillbilly to get a down.
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a ton of spirits use stridor, iron will means nothing
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Read what I said above
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until hillbillys cone is fixed, and servers in general, hillbilly isnt hard at all especially with addons
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dude all she needs is sound, how does slow vaulting correlate to sound when she can still hear u making the chase for spirit braindead simple.
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She cant hear it unless she baits you to do it,play a game of spirit with just headvones no computer or tv.
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But as you guys like to say..the perk isnt required..
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The thing is, Iron Will is a top tier perk. It was listed as being the 5th most used at red ranks when you guys released that data set a while ago, meaning that if a player chose to play any off-meta perk (Adren/DS/BT/DH) it would most likely be Iron Will.
It would be one thing if Iron Will was a niche perk, but it's a very strong perk that is useful against all killers. Same with Spine Chill. These perks have more uses than just countering one specific killer.
Also what about Calm Spirit? If you want to hard counter Doc's power then you will need Calm Spirit. There is no other way to avoid his power outside of just avoiding any kind of interaction via lockers (which is counter productive to the survivor's goal since they will waste tons of time sitting in a locker doing all of nothing). Yet no one seems to complain about Calm Spirit being needed to counter Doc, probably because Doc is still victim to loops and Calm Spirit is actually a niche perk.
I honestly just don't see the issue. I hate Doc. With a passion. If I had the power I would literally delete him from the game. When I start getting a lot of Doc's I put on Calm Spirit to deal with it. It has other interesting uses outside of countering Doc, but let's face it the main reason to use this perk is to counter Doc. Yet I never complain about needing to do that, particularly because Calm Spirit will CRUSH every Doc not using restraint add-ons. Same with Spirit, Iron Will will crush most of the Spirits you will face, to the point it's basically night and day. So if you want to hard counter this exact killer, put on Iron Will. It's really not that big of a deal, especially since Iron Will is top tier and not niche, you will get benefit from it regardless of the killer (except Plague because it doesn't work when you are sick).
Sorry I just can't buy into this "using a perk to counter a killer is bad" philosophy when the perk in question is top tier, useful against EVERY killer (but particularly useful against the killer people have an issue with), and when there are other instances of perks being used to hard counter killers. Here's a few more
Hag - Urban Evasion
Huntress/Nurse - Dead Hard
Ghostface/Pig/Myers/Wraith - Spine Chill
Trapper/Hag - Small Game
Doc - Calm Spirit
Plague/Legion - Resilience
But no one complains about these, they only complain about using Iron Will on Spirit.
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It's pretty simple. Those perks aren't a necessity against those killers as you can still do things. Spirit is Spirit.
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Sorry I don't see Iron Will being necessary. It will make a huge difference, like the perks I mentioned, but you can still play around the Spirit. People act like she's absolutely impossible to beat, yet I main Spirit AND USE STRIDOR and there are still survivors without Iron Will that run me for a good amount of time because they make smart decisions. Decisions like using particular windows, or doing some weird movements to dodge the attack out of phase walk, or dropping pallets early to force me to go around and I end up losing my power before reaching them. It can be done. Iron Will just makes it significantly easier, as all these other perks do for those respective killers.
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All that I've gathered from this is you need to work on your Spirit lol
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Sure. I'm rank 1, I play without Ruin or NOED or Prayer Beads and consistently win games. I've been told by several survivors that I'm one of the best Spirit's they ever faced (also best old Freddy, new Freddy, and Ghostface). But sure I need to work on my Spirit. SMH
90% of survivors are easy pickings as Spirit. Like I can immediately tell you will be easy to catch during the first chase. The other 10% of survivors are the ones I'm talking about. The ones that actually know what to do. In fact I'm probably exaggerating this number, it's probably more like 3% of survivors. But when you get one of those survivors, it's a totally different ball game. You have to be on point to outplay them. They will read every move you do and never fall for silly tricks like the stand still trick.
Furthermore, I've run from very good Spirits for extended periods myself. In fact just last week I was able to run from a very good Spirit for well over 4 minutes (3 gens) and we got at least a 3e because of this (as she just refused to let me go, if she did then I might have been the only one to escape). She caught all my friends super fast. They weren't a challenge for her. I predict her moves every time and ran for 4 minutes AND STILL ESCAPED THE CHASE! I sent them a GG and dude told me "I haven't had a challenge like that in a long time". I've had at least 2 different Spirits, good ones, tell me exactly this. It is indeed possible to run from a Spirit, and just because I say I've been outplayed as Spirit doesn't mean I'm a bad Spirit (especially when I've been told I'm a good Spirit many many times over).
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Iron will isn't a counter to spirit, It's perk that improves your chances at beating spirit by giving you a second health state that is equivalent to first health state. The way you counter spirit is juking, however juking will do you no good if your loud, that is why people bring Iron will. It's like urban evasion vs hag. You can crouch without urban evasion to avoid hag traps to perform safe hook rescue, but it's a lot worse without the perk. You can beat spirit without the perks, but the margin for error is more slim.
Spirit over-performs because many survivors simply disconnect against spirit. It's running meme in dbd that if you don't like to face something, you can just disconnect and there's literally no punishment for it. I think survivor mains call this "dc-tech" or sometimes they refer to it as "Dc=Countered". When I play Solo survivor, the biggest problem is disconnects. Any killer can win a 3vs1. It's like disconnects are used as weapons against killers. Imagine a killer disconnecting every time their Hex:Ruin disappears or every time they get a bad map like Haddonfield. Disconnects are incredible entitlement in this game.
In regards to proxy camping and tunneling, those tactics are used because the game doesn't reward "fair play". It has greater incentive for opposite. There are perks that give incentive for hooking multiple people and going for chases, but there isn't much reason to use them if they don't produce results. player choose tactic that give them highest probability to win. That's just how video gaming works.
That's the end of my rant.
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You're really wrong with putting Urban Evasion as a counter to Hag. Object of Obsession would fit much better there.
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Perks are counters, I don’t see how they’re aren’t. They all counter something that the killer has control over, or boost the survivors ability or XP somehow.
Pretending that they aren’t is simply subjective.
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