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Do you guys think keys are fair?
Im just curious to the general consensus out there. Im not going to state my personal opinion on the matter. But what do you guys think?
Comments
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to be honest I think they are fair in all ways cept 4 people getting a cheap escape
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4 using hatch means all gens have been done, would hardly call it cheap.
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it's cheap when they bm like ######### Infront of me at the hatch
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That's a you problem, additionally, you can kick it closed between jumps, so instead of acting salty go and close it in front of them and kill them.
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keys are still cheap escapes in my opinion
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Keys have two functions:
- Aura Reading
- Opening Black Locks (The Hatch)
Key's aura reading reading needs a huge buff in my opinion because it's rarely used.
- All keys should have Gold Token built into their base.
- All keys should have a higher duration.
Key's opening the Hatch needs to be removed because skipping your primary objective is a no-go.
- Keys can open the hatch, but it takes the survivor 20 seconds to do so.
- Killer is notified when a survivor tries to open the hatch.
- Key is used up if the survivor fails or succeeds (unless they have a milk-stone add-on).
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Playing devil's adovacte thats not always a possibility. What if its a really close game and gens are going fast but the killer is finally picking up steam at the end and the surviore are pressured and when the killer is chasing someone the other 3 escape. Is that still fair? The game wasn't over
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I'm not arguing whether it's fair or not, but if all 4 survivors are still alive, they have all gens done and they all jump out the hatch you probably played poorly anyway.
and also, aren't all killers weak? There's no way you could possibly snowball with all gens done, we all know once gens are done game = over. At least that's what the forum would lead yo to believe.
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So you've gone from, 4 man escapes are cheap, to 4 mans that bm to cheap, to just keys are cheap?
Just say you don't like keys, you don't have to justify not liking something by giving an example that probably happens once a month.
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yes, i hate keys
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I just don't like keys when they are used before the survivor completes their first objective. ?
Otherwise, I'm fine with them using a key to escape through the hatch.
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First of all ❤ it's good to have you around!
But I disagree with buffing keys' aura reading, at least for pink keys. Blood Amber + Prayer Beads are actually incredibly strong and eliminate mindgames. Purple keys could use a duration buff though.
As for opening the hatch, I think this should stay too but have a 2-5s cast instead of 20s. I'd also make it where only the survivor who used the key gets to escape so it isn't a 4 man outtie.
Much respect though!
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If you want them to be useless sure.
Keys are as fair as a Mori.
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Some killers play endgame builds. Or 3 gen strategies. Keys potentially counter entire killer builds. My only problem with keys is randomly finding them mid game in chests. Much like end game builds are high risk for potential reward, keys should have to be brought in from the start.
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They're fair in the same way that flipping the table over when you're losing a board game is fair. And just like that scenario, it feels like the game was a complete waste of time.
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It is as fair as mori's not very fun to play against at all. Both should stay. However keys shouldn't be in chests anymore.
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I think they're fair cause of the planning ahead you have to do. I'm a killer main my self but I'm just impressed that they pulled it off.
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For the keys aura reading, how's this?
Broken Key:
- 10 Seconds > 20 Seconds.
- Reveals all allies within 16 meters when used.
Dull Key:
- 5 Seconds > 30 Seconds
- Reveals all allies within 24 meters when used.
Skeleton Key:
- 30 Seconds > 40 Seconds
- Reveals all allies within 32 meters when used.
Blood Amber:
- Decreases item efficiency by 50%.
Opening the hatch:
- HUD blinks the hatch icon, and the killer gets a audible noise notification. The killer DOES NOT see where you're opening the hatch at — they must memorize the hatch's location to stop you.
- Takes the survivor 20 seconds to open the Hatch.
Is this better? :)
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Much better, though I still don't like it taking 20 seconds to open the hatch. Though I guess it's a fair exchange for the aura reading buffs and Blood Amber nerf. A lot better that Killer doesn't actually get your location, though.
Personally I'd make it 10s opening max
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I can agree with 10 seconds, but to be sure, we will need a PTB to find a time fair for both sides! :)
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They are completely fair game while Mori’s still exist, plain and simple.
It takes 3 Survivors 4 gens to make the hatch appear. They are fine.
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I think keys needs just some time to open lockers.
The more better (rare) key is, the less time it should take.
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Yup of course! :)
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If moris and ultra rare add ons are fair , then why not keys?
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It really depends. I was being left alone few times by SWF with keys.
Some other time I left one gen at 99 when I realized that we will get 3 gen'd. Went to do a gen on the other edge of the map, stupid Feng poped that 99 gen, I used the key and left without any remorse.
Potato teams and killer sided EGC with stupid gate spawns make the keys really the best item to take.
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I think keys are perfectly fair...except when they get used in a match where I'm killer...
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I dont mine if you find one in a chest, but i dont think u should be able to bring one into game.
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ofc they are fair because they mostly care about survivors fun.
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No. Extreme shortening of any objective in the game is not fine. Moris and Keys need a rework.
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Moris and keys are both completely unfair in exactly the same way.
They both reward you with a "win" for only doing half the work.
They both deny the other team a tremendous amount of bloodpoints for essentially just playing normally.
They are both essentially uncounterable. A key will never be hit by Franklin's so many times it will be destroyed. A dead person with a key can still tell their allies to grab it and escape, even an observant survivor not in SWF can keep track of who had one in the lobby. Most importantly, Plunderer's can produce one with relative consistency which cannot be 'countered' by Franklin's once already in a match.
It is my hope that BHVR will nerf both of them, side-by-side in a similar manner, and soon.
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Honestly it's a very touchy subject as I feel like it basically screws over any chance that the killer has to reclaim a victory.
Which you'll be surprised can be done in endgame or with only one generator left.
However the survivors did have to get to a certain point to achieve it.
Then again it's not like generators are exactly difficult to do it's just that they're tedious.
If you want a general answer to your question which was if I consider them fair or not. The answer would be no
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They didn't really do a lot to earn it though. I had a game the other day with the oh so fun Plunderer's BS of "there's just a key in the game now and there's nothing you can do about it."
I was in a great position with 3 defendable gens left and everyone was dead on hook until I spotted the dude with the key. I knew they were SWF, I knew it was a Pluderer's key so unlikely to be kept on death.
So suddenly I have 2 options: Kill anyone that doesn't have the key. 3 people group up and go out the hatch in a period of 5 seconds, or, kill the person with the key. The second I go to kick the gen they're working on SWF #2 picks up the key and 3 people group up an go out the hatch in a period of 5 seconds.
I can't find and sit on the hatch while they finish the gen and walk out. I'm in a literal checkmate where my absolute best case scenario is a 1K just because someone ran a perk, and getting 4 gens is far from a commendable feat against M1 killers.
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I meant earn as in the completed a required amount of gens.
Hence why I said generators aren't exactly difficult to complete in the slightest, they're just tedious.
Again as I said before in the exact same post it screws over the killer's chance to reclaim a victory which can still be claimed with ever there's only one gen left or all the generators have been completed.
To add to that it makes end game builds absolutely pointless and running an endgame build is already a gamble as it is.
More importantly as I've stated once again in the same post I don't consider keys fair.
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Of course it is fair. Keys are perfect fine. The keys allow us, main survivors, a free scape without completing the main survivor objective. Every survivor should start the match with one red key because we deserve it for tolerating overperforming killers. ;)
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they would be a lot fairer if a single key didnt allow multiple escapes!
seriously... just because one guy brought a key does not mean that two or more should escape for free -.-
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Nope no counterplay at all and you closing hatch doesnt make any sense because of that.
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It's not fair when survivors jump in hatch in front of your face because they know you can't do anything about that. So I think opening the hatch with a key should have a channel time or killers should be able to grab people who open the hatch with a key.
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I do not like keys just like I do not like Moris. Anything that allows you to "skip" game mechanics just isn't fun.
A "clutch" key escape can be fun for the survivor(s) that use it but very polarizing for the killer.
A Mori can be fun for the killer but very polarizing to the survivor(s) who got hit with the Mori and the team now instantly down a person.
The issue is they are also not as "rare" as they may have been intended. Mind you I have been playing since day 1 PS4 release but the sheer amount of Mori/keys I have at my disposal (should I ever decide to use them) would allow me to bring one into every match for the next few months. I seem to get a green or ebony Mori every 1-2 bloodwebs and a skeleton key in nearly ever Plunders 3 chest I open.
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To OP's post. Keys are not fair, but the game shouldn't be fair. If the games should be fair we need to remove all items and addons.
Keyes should remain the same since it's fun same way ultra rares should remain because its fun.
Of course those that don't like a challenge might not think its fun, but then again if you don't want a challenge don't play pvp games pve is more for those people.
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3 men escaping via hatch is cheaper since one gen is still up and makes it very easy for survivors to get a second chance when they 3 genned themselves.
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Keys are unfair like ebony moris. Both need to get removed or reworked.
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Survivors should not have an instant-win item.
I suggest that keys get the same treatment as the instant-heals. Make it a delayed open. 20 seconds waiting time and allow only one Survivor to escape per key.
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The one thing I don't like about Keys is their ability to get multiple people to escape early before all the gens are done, almost completely regardless of the momentum the Killer has at that point. I think 4-man Key escapes after the gens are done are fine, I think opening the Hatch with a Key after it's been closed is fine, I think the aura-reading of the Keys are fine and could probably stand to be improved.
If you're going to have the ability to be able to end the game earlier than usual, there should absolutely be either an extra challenge/condition to making that happen, further restrictions to how the Key can be used to open the Hatch, or penalties for having an item that affords you such a luxury.
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I think keys would feel less annoying to go against if there was a 5-10 secondd channel time where you need to channel the entire duration in one go to open the hatch. It would eliminate the scenario where the survivor is getting chased by the killer and then finds the hatch and jumps in without anything stopping them.
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I'll just put it this way.
For anyone who says keys are not fair because they allow the survivors to escape without completing the objective, answer the question "Are Mori's fair?"
If your answer to keys is no, but to mori's is yes, I need you to examine your bias because moris do the EXACT same thing, and worse if it's an ebony. You go from needing a max of 12 hooks for a 4k to only needing 4 (one on each person). Meaning you only need to do 33% of the work it would take to win a match normally.
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And in fact, I would argue keys are MORE fair than moris, because at least there's a requirement that has to be met that takes some time.
I can hook someone in the first minute of the game depending on the killer I play and if I outsmart the survivor. Then they get Mori'd in less than 2 minutes.
In order to use a key, we have to be deep into the game, have gens completed, FIND the hatch which is difficult on some levels, easy on others, and then coordinate to get the team there if you're escaping with your team.
The conditions for pulling off a Mori are ways easier than the conditions for pulling off a hatch escape (and that difficulty increases depending on the number of people left alive)
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I don't like much how they can be used in chases since that's cheap from the killers' perspective, but as a solo survivor I can tell how important it is to have a way to open the hatch.
Imo they should just take longer to open the hatch, but otherwise they're fine. I would like an addon rework though, since on that they're very underwhelming.
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If you want to get rid of keys, get rid of moris as well. If keys are a cheap, easy escape then you have to admit that moris are cheap, easy kills (devour hope being the exception). I think that the EGC is exposing a lot of mediocre killers. You are not entitled to a 4k.
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as long as mori exists keys are fine i would say.
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