General Discussions
General Discussions
Why was grabbing from the hatch removed?
I never understood that. You're basically saying "Have fun with this no risk high reward way of escape"
From both sides I think that decision was dumb. There is no risk for survivors after they end up getting steam rolled by the killer.
And on the killer side there is no point in chasing them if they are invincible while on the hatch.
It further entices the "you didn't do anything but lose, BUT HEY you get a free escape for participating!".
Why. Was. This. Removed?
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You can just find the hatch and close it though.
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You can do gens, or go find a door. If they just stand there on the hatch then that is a really, REALLY dumb play. Due to egc hatch standoffs don't happen. Killer finds hatch and closes it, good for them. Survivor finds hatch and jumps in, good for them. Survivor jumps in hatch while killer is riding their ass defenseless in stopping them, good fo... wait that don't sound right.
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It was in my opinion, because Survivor Mains cried. I personally wished they'd just remove hatch openings unless you have a key. Allow EGC to play out normally but force survivors to open exit gates at increased speeds. However gone would be the days of no Red-light til 20%.
Hatch has never been fair, regardless of the changes. I much prefer the standoffs to be honest. At least whomever got there first earned the right.
Survivors refused to be weary of Killers who found hatch first, and instead choose to try go the easy way out and create standoffs. I'll probably get flak for this viewpoint, but I'm not sorry for having it.
Edit: Devs will say that the reason for the whole point of the rework was to remove Hatch standoffs and that being able to grab a survivor mid-animation while they exited was the "sole" reason why the issue existed.
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This
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Would you rather have hatch stand offs back?
The person who gets there first now wins the hatch game. I don't see how hatch stand offs are better then if the killer finds it, they close the hatch.
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"Balancing reasons"
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Because they wanted the hatch to be entirely first come first serve.
The hatch changes + EGC eliminates most of the old stalemate scenarios, the only way anything similar can really happen now is if you have a killer that refuses to close the hatch and instead standing on/near it, and a survivor standing by a gate refusing to do anything but wait for the hatch to be closed. But I've only seen anything like that twice, so it's much rarer than both old hatch standoffs and people deciding to play hide and seek indefinitely due to the lack of a EGC timer.
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Being grabbed is not fun for survivors
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Because exiting animation trumps closing animation, you can enter hatch when downed [Makes no sense, should be a perk],Unfair spawning points [Namely in shack with window and pallet].
I have always hated hatches more then I enjoyed them. Sure, sometimes you do all the work and your teamates have mashed potatoes for brains. But unless you have at least 2-3 gens done or Key. You shouldn't be entitled to an ultra ez hatchout.
I would rather have Hatches be tweaked rather then EGC buffed. As stated, in my opinion. Hatches need stricter requirements for useage and a buff to survivors ability to power gates.
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But wouldn't it be fun to try and grab the survivor who's about to jump into the lock? The game mechanic used to be there.
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Multiple times I've jumped into the hatch, part way through the animation with my survivor's legs already inside and then the killer closes it and the animation gets canceled. Might as well be able to grab if the killer can cancel an escape in progress.
Seriously though, just stop whining. Sorry that you can't always 4k.
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"Let me get the last kill for free"
Lol no
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Killers: Hatch stand offs shouldn't exist!
Also killers: Why were hatch stand offs removed?!?!?!
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Unless the Survivor has a key and opens it in your face :\
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if you are smart as a survivor you just stand by a door and wait for the killer to close the hatch, you still have a decent chance to escape then. OR if you know where the hatch is, just hide close by and u will win 100% since there is no chance the killer c an grab you and you can also escape while in dying state. win win if you are smart.
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Keys. if someone has a key, there's no way to counterplay that if it's there. It's stupidly unfair.
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Ways for survivors to guarantee hatch: Play immersed until other survs die, wait by hatch and have the other surv kill themselves on hook/DC, key
Ways for killer to guarantee hatch deny: slug (this can be countered by DC)
And since BHVR has gone on record that DCing to give hatch isn't treated differently from any other DC, even though it's clearly an exploit, it's a free escape for survivors.
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This. But I would also be in favor of adding Hatch grabbing back too.
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I kinda miss hatch stand offs :'(
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It's a race now: Whoever finds it first wins.
Though that's not entirely true for the Killer as there's still more to do after closing it, but still.
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Hatch standoffs were not fun.
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The question isn't "why were hatch grabs removed?" it's "why is nothing being done about survivors being able to escape through a shut hatch due to ping?"
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To prevent hatch stand offs and game hostage situations EGC was created. Why would you attempt to remove a feature and then add it back in?
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I believe the op was don't asking why was hatch grabbing removed and I'm asking the same question. It's really cool when I sacrifice hook the third person and I can see where the 4th is running with BBQ because they've had time to scour the map for the hatch while I've been busy actually playing the game, to get to the hatch at the exact same moment as them, and they escape because I cant grab them. It's bs. I don't really care all that much, but it is bs.
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Well reason why is simple. What's to prevent a killer from standing near hatch and instead of closing it they prevent EGC making the survivor get close to the hatch and either attempt to jump in and lose or be seen and have the hatch slammed in there face.
A lot of survivors already think EGC is unfair when it was created to prevent hatch standoffs and game hostage situations. Most of the time survivors lose simply because of gate spawns being too close. Which is more then fair because they failed to do the 5 gens and than they failed to get hatch and now they have a slight chance with the doors. Each failures escape route is marginally harder and more risky.
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What about keys then? Removing the grab also removed a major counter to keys.
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Keys are the equivalent of Mori's .
Both need things a certain amount of objective done to get the use out of them.
If one needs a change thrn in reality so does the other as both can end the game prematurely but a mori can do it quicker.
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Counterpoint, Moris reward the killer for doing his job, keys both reward survs and punish the killer.
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Hatch standoffs still exist when both sides know where the hatch is, the killer stands on it first because the survivor was hiding behind a rock, and the killer has to wait, he can't close it, because then the survivor jumps through the ######### STEEL CLOSED HATCH.
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Mori's do then punish the survivors as they miss put on more unhook points and can be taken out the game in a short time forcing a depip.
Both are as bad or as good as each other.
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I didn't mean in terms of points. Keys punish killers for doing their job, killing. The more are killed the less gens need to be done for the key to work, so it forces the killer to play inefficiently so as to not give the survs too early an escape.
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I do think that once the Killer Closes the Hatch if it's been opened a Survivor with a key shouldn't be able to open it again...
I had a match recently where a Survivor opened the hatch (there were still 3 gens left to do) I closed the hatch after the Survivor jumped out to go search for his friend, he ran and opened the said now closed Hatch because he also was holding a key (after I had closed it just a moment ago) and Escaped too.
I think 2 Survivors escaping in a match where they have 3 Gens left to complete because I'm playing well as Killer is sort of insulting, especially given if I literally closed the hatch after one had already escaped. This shouldn't be allowed in my opinion, and in the end I ended up getting a depip and half as many bloodpoints as I would have had we completed the match lol. Not quite fair when I did next to nothing wrong and I have absolutely no "Counter-Play" as they say that they don't like it when the game has no "Counter-Play" potential.
If the hatch has been closed by me, it shouldn't be able to be reopened with a key. What would my counter play be anyways? It's not possible, because I can't close the hatch twice (before it being opened again) and I have to go check the gates, each gate is in a different location and the last remaining survivor could be at one of the gates trying to open it, so I can't just camp the hatch either.. I believe this is one of those situations where you have no real options besides getting lucky...
Exactly the same reason Spirit was nerfed, exact same reason I believe this shouldn't be part of the game. @Peanits any ideas on this situation? Just curious.
Oh yeah, and of course in end game chat the Survivors talked mad trash to me, as if I had any way to stop them really lol. Using 2 keys back to back.
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From the survivor perspective each save puts someone at risk of being taken out but if you don't you risk less gens getting done .
In essence its the same scenario as its damned if you do damned if you don't.
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Devs did it because they are lazy and survivors whined so much about it. It would be better for the hatch to be gone completely for them to at least try to open the gates. EGC was just lazy and is a huge reward of survivors for playing bad.
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BHVR won't change the RNG of Exit gates spawning closer together than Siamese twins..
It's hilarious when they spawn almost next to each other while you stand on the hatch looking at both gates.
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My goodness, its easier as a killer for you to find the hatch than for the survivor to do so. If they make it, oh well they found it first because you failed to do so. Least you got a 3K. As someone who plays killer I don't see the problem
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Pretty sure killers cried way more about the standoffs.
Nothing will please them, even now they whine when it's way more in their favour lol...
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Killers are trying to kill and survivors are trying to survive. I agree with twistedmonkey if keys have to change them so would moris. That's just balance. Both require little to no input, albeit at least the survivors have to fix an X amount of Gens or have an X amount of allies die. Killers with moris have a easier time. Frankly I wish survivors had abilities as well, would make it more interesting.
Seems killers these days don't want to be challenged...dont know why
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What I have a problem with is not being able to grab survivors who opened the hatch with a key. There is no way of stopping a survivor who has a key from jumping into the hatch (except tunneling them, duh). Especially annoying when you're chasing them and they just happen bump into it and then just *poof*, they're gone.
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Wow, you might wanna stretch before making such huge reaches. I'm simply stating facts, keys both reward the survivors for completing their main objective (gens are the main objective tied to surviving) and punish the killer for killing people by reducing the number of gens needed to allow the key to be used.
Moris are always at a set point, they only reward the killer for good play, they don't punish survivors for good play. Do I think Moris and keys are both unhealthy? Yes.
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Because it gave killer the advantage, and survivor mains just couldn't have that.
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Unless both get there at the same time. In wich case the dedicated servers decide who win, with a massive edge toward the survivor who can just jump through the hatch while the killer is closing it.
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That's the server, not the actual game allowing that. You're welcome for clarifying.
Sorry, but this may be true in a basic game. But one word. Key. No counter. We're not saying that it's not fair that it exist, some of us are saying the easy accessibilty with little counterplay of Hatching out is still unbalanced.
You're just reguritating what has been said already.
Not quite sure how you draw that conclusion.
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Killer is host so it'll always favor them. I play on console.
No thank you.
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The tooltip about the entitity being amused by hatch grabs is still there in the loading screen tips.
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Hatch Camping is still a thing.
Closing the Hatch doesn't stop a key from popping it right away.
Both the survivor and the Killer finding the hatch during the chase is basically GGEZ for the Killer as he has no way to stop the survivor from leaping in.
The Solution? If we don't get the attempt to snatch someone from leaping into the hatch, then they shouldn't be able to go from crawling on the ground bleeding to suddenly strong enough to leap into the hatch.
Survivors that are downed shouldn't be able to use the hatch.
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A mori by design cuts down the overall objectives needed to reach a sacrifice.
The exact same statement above applies to keys if you exchange the word mori for key and sacrifice for escape.
They are equivalent as they allow both sides to reach the end goal without fullfilling the overall objective.
Both aslo have no counter unless you count not being caught or hooked or killing before they can use it.
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Its only equivlanet for the ebony mori. The other two are not.
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