Tru3Ta1ent speaks the TRUTH
Comments
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I personally think he is wrong, i mean just connect the dots, killers have too much op perks and yes removing noed and insidious would help.. but survivors don't have a lot of op perks, no i'm not denying that survivors don't have op perks and no i'm not fighting for 'giving survivors more op perks' but killers are mostly op in this game, and no one does anything about it.. maybe you never noticed this but true always complains about survivors and how they are either op or something else while not mentioning killers.. killers can run perks that make it literal hell to play, then complain about dc-ing.. anyways just wanted to say that yes he is right that survive with friends can 'be #########' and yes noed, decisive, and insidious would help balance match making and just generally make it a better game to play. FiT3 mE iF y0U wANt T0 ¯_(ツ)_/¯
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@loveleh said:
I personally think he is wrong, i mean just connect the dots, killers have too much op perks and yes removing noed and insidious would help.. but survivors don't have a lot of op perks, no i'm not denying that survivors don't have op perks and no i'm not fighting for 'giving survivors more op perks' but killers are mostly op in this game, and no one does anything about it.. maybe you never noticed this but true always complains about survivors and how they are either op or something else while not mentioning killers.. killers can run perks that make it literal hell to play, then complain about dc-ing.. anyways just wanted to say that yes he is right that survive with friends can 'be #########' and yes noed, decisive, and insidious would help balance match making and just generally make it a better game to play. FiT3 mE iF y0U wANt T0 ¯_(ツ)_/¯Good joke!
Make another one!3 -
That’s the point of the game though. Killers as supposed to be “OP”. Chases are supposed to last 30-45 seconds most of the time. Not at least a minute or two. You’re supposed to get steam rolled by a Killer if you’re found out in the open, and have very little chance of escape if found at all. That’s why you have 3 team mates, that’s why you have three chances. Your supposed to make the Killer waste his time looking for you, but NOT FINDING YOU. Not waste his time by running around in circles and using badly designed maps and perks to basically punish the Killer for doing exactly what he’s supposed to do.loveleh said:I personally think he is wrong, i mean just connect the dots, killers have too much op perks and yes removing noed and insidious would help.. but survivors don't have a lot of op perks, no i'm not denying that survivors don't have op perks and no i'm not fighting for 'giving survivors more op perks' but killers are mostly op in this game, and no one does anything about it.. maybe you never noticed this but true always complains about survivors and how they are either op or something else while not mentioning killers.. killers can run perks that make it literal hell to play, then complain about dc-ing.. anyways just wanted to say that yes he is right that survive with friends can 'be #########' and yes noed, decisive, and insidious would help balance match making and just generally make it a better game to play. FiT3 mE iF y0U wANt T0 ¯_(ツ)_/¯
Survivor : Don’t get found and caught, you win. Get found, but Loop the Killer for X amount of time at least, you still win.
Killer : Don’t find anyone, you lose. Find people really easy, but they expoilt the ######### map design and badly designed perks that increase chase time exponentially, you still lose.
Its a win/win for Survivors, a Lose/Lose for Killers. The only way you lose as a Survivor is you suck at hiding, AND you don’t know the layout of the map in order to Loop properly.
NOED carries bad Killers, this is true. However, with how poorly the game is balanced with just simple game mechanics and bad map design, even damn good Killers can get screwed. Then add in the Survivor crutch perks, it only makes that problem even worse.
Killer perks like BBQ & Chilli, (new) Tinkerer, (New) Bitter Murmur would definitely be OP and need taken out of the game, *if* the game didn’t have badly designed maps and Gen so stupidly quick and easy to complete as base mechanics that make the game highly Survivor sided.
Again, Perks be damned. It’s the game mechanics and map designs that need fixed first, then look at the perks.
Also, Survivors run perks that make it literally hell to play. Do you have any idea how frustrating it when you have a whole team with Sprint Burst and your Myers/Wraith/Pig? Your whole power of Ambush is rendered null and void. Do you know frustrating it is as Nurse when you get a team, all with Dead Hard, so even though you perfectly land your Blinks, they just press a button and it renders that perfect Blink null and void? Don’t act like crutch perks are the only frustrating part of Killers, and they don’t have matches that are “literally hell” to play.
Survivors also complain about Killers who D/C because they don’t want to play Wraith when Sprint Burst makes their power completely pointless.
There is bullshit on both sides. However, when it comes to the game right now, Survivors just have far more bullshit in their favor than Killers do.2 -
@Tsulan said:
So skill checks are hard now.No I'm saying they are easy LOL. Like hitting someone once and getting a free kill out of it.
@Tsulan said:
Was that before the emblem system?
I can proof it by presenting you a screenshot. But then you probably say that's because I used add-on X and offering Y and that it doesn't count, bla bla.Before and after. I wouldn't doubt it happens sometimes in extreme circumstances (so yes, you using specific add-ons or a mori might make it happen) but in 95% of games where you get a 4k with 5 gens you will pip or double pip. I've had several in the past week like that. One game in particular (again as Freddy) this group was all running around like chickens without heads and being way WAY too altruistic to the point there were almost sandbagging each other. Game was over in less than 5 minutes and I was even trying to give some of them chances because it was just so sad. Double pip while the best survivor barely got 3k BP.
"A screenshot" won't cut it, especially when I've had plenty of experiences that contradict that. You'd have to show me a lot of screenshots from back-to-back games for me to even take you seriously. Don't act like me dismissing your one isolated example proves you right. It's like those anti-vaxxers that point to this one (bogus) study that says vaccines cause autism, when there are HUNDREDS of other studies and years of scientific/medical data that say otherwise. That's called selective bias.
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@thesuicidefox said:
@Tsulan said:
So skill checks are hard now.No I'm saying they are easy LOL. Like hitting someone once and getting a free kill out of it.
@Tsulan said:
Was that before the emblem system?
I can proof it by presenting you a screenshot. But then you probably say that's because I used add-on X and offering Y and that it doesn't count, bla bla.Before and after. I wouldn't doubt it happens sometimes in extreme circumstances (so yes, you using specific add-ons or a mori might make it happen) but in 95% of games where you get a 4k with 5 gens you will pip or double pip. I've had several in the past week like that. One game in particular (again as Freddy) this group was all running around like chickens without heads and being way WAY too altruistic to the point there were almost sandbagging each other. Game was over in less than 5 minutes and I was even trying to give some of them chances because it was just so sad. Double pip while the best survivor barely got 3k BP.
"A screenshot" won't cut it, especially when I've had plenty of experiences that contradict that. You'd have to show me a lot of screenshots from back-to-back games for me to even take you seriously. Don't act like me dismissing your one isolated example proves you right. It's like those anti-vaxxers that point to this one (bogus) study that says vaccines cause autism, when there are HUNDREDS of other studies and years of scientific/medical data that say otherwise. That's called selective bias.
Please don´t compare me to anti vaxxers. Or are you one of those Flat earthers?
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@Tsulan said:
Please don´t compare me to anti vaxxers. Or are you one of those Flat earthers?LOL OMG don't even get me started on those lunatics.
I mean really, if Earth was flat cats woulda pushed everything off by now. Simple logic.
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@thesuicidefox said:
@Tsulan said:
Please don´t compare me to anti vaxxers. Or are you one of those Flat earthers?LOL OMG don't even get me started on those lunatics.
I mean really, if Earth was flat cats woulda pushed everything off by now. Simple logic.
9gager detected.
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@Tsulan said:
@thesuicidefox said:
@Tsulan said:
Please don´t compare me to anti vaxxers. Or are you one of those Flat earthers?LOL OMG don't even get me started on those lunatics.
I mean really, if Earth was flat cats woulda pushed everything off by now. Simple logic.
9gager detected.
No I don't do that either.
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@thesuicidefox said:
@Tsulan said:
@thesuicidefox said:
@Tsulan said:
Please don´t compare me to anti vaxxers. Or are you one of those Flat earthers?LOL OMG don't even get me started on those lunatics.
I mean really, if Earth was flat cats woulda pushed everything off by now. Simple logic.
9gager detected.
No I don't do that either.
Good for you. There might still be hope for you. Stay away from that syte while you still can.
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Anti vaxxers and flat earthers should just be sent to space to live together preferably a very long way away. That way they can never ever contaminate anyone with their stupidity. They can be joined by all the idiots that peddle said conspiracy theories stuff.
Although whatever planet they got placed on would probably blow itself up due to all the contamination their idiocy would bring. That or aliens would destroy it to ensure the contamination didn't spread.
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By definition every single perk and add on are crutches. I like TrueTalent, and he's welcome to his opinion, as is the OP. But like I said every perk is a crutch. (Aside from those that don't do anything useful)1
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@thrawn3054 said:
By definition every single perk and add on are crutches. I like TrueTalent, and he's welcome to his opinion, as is the OP. But like I said every perk is a crutch. (Aside from those that don't do anything useful)At least until they buff the useless perks thereby making them crutch perks.
Post edited by powerbats on0 -
@Tsulan said:
@loveleh said:
I personally think he is wrong, i mean just connect the dots, killers have too much op perks and yes removing noed and insidious would help.. but survivors don't have a lot of op perks, no i'm not denying that survivors don't have op perks and no i'm not fighting for 'giving survivors more op perks' but killers are mostly op in this game, and no one does anything about it.. maybe you never noticed this but true always complains about survivors and how they are either op or something else while not mentioning killers.. killers can run perks that make it literal hell to play, then complain about dc-ing.. anyways just wanted to say that yes he is right that survive with friends can 'be #########' and yes noed, decisive, and insidious would help balance match making and just generally make it a better game to play. FiT3 mE iF y0U wANt T0 ¯_(ツ)_/¯Good joke!
Make another one!Bill is one of the most useful survivors in dead by daylight!
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@loveleh said:
@Tsulan said:
@loveleh said:
I personally think he is wrong, i mean just connect the dots, killers have too much op perks and yes removing noed and insidious would help.. but survivors don't have a lot of op perks, no i'm not denying that survivors don't have op perks and no i'm not fighting for 'giving survivors more op perks' but killers are mostly op in this game, and no one does anything about it.. maybe you never noticed this but true always complains about survivors and how they are either op or something else while not mentioning killers.. killers can run perks that make it literal hell to play, then complain about dc-ing.. anyways just wanted to say that yes he is right that survive with friends can 'be #########' and yes noed, decisive, and insidious would help balance match making and just generally make it a better game to play. FiT3 mE iF y0U wANt T0 ¯_(ツ)_/¯Good joke!
Make another one!Bill is one of the most useful survivors in dead by daylight!
I thought it was David King running around in full view of the killer while using No Mither.
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NOED isn't comparable to Decisive Strike. There is no real counter to Decisive Strike, while you can counter NOED by not being found by the killer at the end of the game, or breaking the totem, or breaking all the totems beforehand, or just opening a gate in 20 seconds and getting out.
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@The_Manlet said:
NOED isn't comparable to Decisive Strike. There is no real counter to Decisive Strike, while you can counter NOED by not being found by the killer at the end of the game, or breaking the totem, or breaking all the totems beforehand, or just opening a gate in 20 seconds and getting out.Exactly.
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@thesuicidefox said:
Tru3Ta1ent speaks the TRUTHHow about that:
Everyone speaks the TRUTH
According to StarWars Chapter IV - Obi-wan Kenobi:
"Luke, you’re going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.”
“The truth is often what we make of it; you heard what you wanted to hear, believed what you wanted to believe."2 -
@ZombieGenesis said:
Freddy is not weak. Read these forums, dude, there's like 38 "killer mains" here who hit rank 1 every season with a perkless Freddy. Dude needs hella-nerfs.This is only possible because piping is too easy on both sides. Also piping as survivor is even easier, making it possible for noobs like me to reach rank 1 as pleb survivor adn thus creating easier games for killer.
All this rank 1 mentality is absolutely pointless as long as rank doesnt mean anything
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DS - can be countered by enduring or avoided by juggling to a close hook.
NOED - can be countered by survivors having the foresight to destroy all the totems before finishing the gens.
Insidious- can be countered by survivors using their eyes and ears instead of relying on a TR to tell them the killer is near.all perks that have easy counters but too many people are simply too lazy.
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@The_Manlet said:
NOED isn't comparable to Decisive Strike. There is no real counter to Decisive Strike, while you can counter NOED by not being found by the killer at the end of the game, or breaking the totem, or breaking all the totems beforehand, or just opening a gate in 20 seconds and getting out.Stop saying this kind of bullshit. It's completely comparable, watch...
"You can counter DS by not picking up the obsession and just slugging them, saving them for the end of the game, making them waste it early in the game, using Enduring, using Remember Me/Dying Light to reward you for going after the obsession, using PWYF/STBFL to reward you for avoiding your obsession, using Unnerving/Doc to make the skill check harder."
There are plenty of ways to counter DS, that doesn't make it any less of a crutch perk. NOED having counters doesn't make it any less of a crutch perk either. And if you are going to come in here and say that these counters are unreasonable I will just counter by saying it's unreasonable to expect survivors to destroy all 5 totems before the last gen pops, or that it's unreasonable to get away from the killer when it procs as the killer moves faster and there are only 2 places you can go to. Anything you say about DS I can say about NOED. They are ultimately the same.
All you are doing by saying it's not comparable is dismissing the fact that it is there to help bad killers. Both perks are for bad players, and when a good player uses them it breaks the game.
I've made this exact point before in Gears of War 3 with the Retro Lancer. When you take a really good player and give them an crutch that is normally there to help bad players, the integrity of the game falls apart. I made a whole video about that weapon, which was seen by the developers and likely a big reason why the Retro in Gears 4 is a pickup weapon and far more balanced (to the point it's now one of my favorite weapons when before I considered it cancer).
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I don't understand why NOED is considered a crutch on the level of DS. I see a crutch as being something you use to make an already winnable game easier. It's pretty well established through marth's experiments and DBD tournaments that the game is the survivors to lose. So while DS is certainly a crutch NOED seems more like adding a pseudo 2nd (or 3rd if you count ruin) objective to the game to punish survivors for blasting gens.
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I only run NOED on my Trapper to counter gen rushing since that problem isn't a result of me failing to play but the devs failing to balance their game.
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And that's the reason why the trapper is still mid tier. He wastes to much time getting his traps.CallMeRusty420 said:I only run NOED on my Trapper to counter gen rushing since that problem isn't a result of me failing to play but the devs failing to balance their game.
Hag can set her traps whenever she wants. Trapper is limited and has to find them first.4 -
I kinda feel that NOED isn't necessarily a crutch perk if you're playing someone like Freddy or Wraith. But only because they're weak killers, if they were stronger then you wouldn't need it on them. Then again that kinda still makes it a crutch perk lol but yeah DS needs removed.0
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Why do we even have ranks seriously?
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@Tsulan said:
CallMeRusty420 said:I only run NOED on my Trapper to counter gen rushing since that problem isn't a result of me failing to play but the devs failing to balance their game.
And that's the reason why the trapper is still mid tier. He wastes to much time getting his traps.
Hag can set her traps whenever she wants. Trapper is limited and has to find them first.He should always start with 2 and be able to refill from the locker just like huntress does up to whatever max traps he's allowed to have.
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NOED isn´t comparable to DS because it doesn´t qualify as crutch.
If a good killer has NOED, the survivors won´t even get to power all gens. If a bad killer has NOED, he gets 1 kill at most with it.If a good survivor has DS, he can initiate another long loop or even play cocky once the gates are open. If a bad survivor has DS, he wastes it on the first down and disconnects.
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I mean I could write a whole wall of text regarding this but no one will read it so I’ll just say I don’t think it’s necessarily the perks that are the problem I believe it’s the mechanics of the game that’s the issue.2
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@Tsulan said:
NOED isn´t comparable to DS because it doesn´t qualify as crutch.
If a good killer has NOED, the survivors won´t even get to power all gens. If a bad killer has NOED, he gets 1 kill at most with it.If a good survivor has DS, he can initiate another long loop or even play cocky once the gates are open. If a bad survivor has DS, he wastes it on the first down and disconnects.
1) Good killers use NOED as a safety net "just in case" they fail. That is a crutch.
2) If a bad killer has NOED they will more often than not get more than 1 kill with it. They get something they didn't earn (even if it's just 1 kill). That is a crutch.
3) NOED rewards the killer for doing nothing. Literally nothing, you can just stand around and wait for it to proc if you want. That is a crutch.
4) NOED is a comeback mechanic, something purposely put in a game to offset skill (eg. Blue Shell). That is a crutch.Also in theory, I could argue that a good survivor may never use their DS just like a good killer may never use their NOED. Doesn't change the fact that it's there as a safety net. That's what a crutch does for the player, it makes up for some failure on their part. It also helps bad players to appear as average players as it makes up for a lack of skill.
Add everything together = DS and NOED are crutch perks.
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@thesuicidefox said:
@Tsulan said:
NOED isn´t comparable to DS because it doesn´t qualify as crutch.
If a good killer has NOED, the survivors won´t even get to power all gens. If a bad killer has NOED, he gets 1 kill at most with it.If a good survivor has DS, he can initiate another long loop or even play cocky once the gates are open. If a bad survivor has DS, he wastes it on the first down and disconnects.
1) Good killers use NOED as a safety net "just in case" they fail. That is a crutch.
2) If a bad killer has NOED they will more often than not get more than 1 kill with it. They get something they didn't earn (even if it's just 1 kill). That is a crutch.
3) NOED rewards the killer for doing nothing. Literally nothing, you can just stand around and wait for it to proc if you want. That is a crutch.
4) NOED is a comeback mechanic, something purposely put in a game to offset skill (eg. Blue Shell). That is a crutch.Also in theory, I could argue that a good survivor may never use their DS just like a good killer may never use their NOED. Doesn't change the fact that it's there as a safety net. That's what a crutch does for the player, it makes up for some failure on their part. It also helps bad players to appear as average players as it makes up for a lack of skill.
Add everything together = DS and NOED are crutch perks.
I don´t agree. All the survivor has to do to use DS is getting downed. Aka failing.
All the killer has to do to use NOED is track the survivor down and hit him. If he hits more than one, the survivors are cocky or dumb.
NOED is a lategame tactic like Blood Warden and Remember Me. Those 3 together can be a bitter surprise for survivors. Killer wasted 3 perks for the whole duration of the match, to have a strong endgame. This is a gamble. Because if he plays against SWF, he has to make sure he kills no one before the gates are powered. Otherwise the team can work around it.1 -
@Tsulan said:
I don´t agree. All the survivor has to do to use DS is getting downed. Aka failing.
All the killer has to do to use NOED is track the survivor down and hit him. If he hits more than one, the survivors are cocky or dumb.To get that ability to down them, the killer failed at stopping gens. Again any argument you make for DS I can make for NOED.
Also it's not that hard to find survivors if there are only 2 locations they can go to escape. Also again not hard to chase them when you get an additional speed boost on top of a OHK.
@Tsulan said:
NOED is a lategame tactic like Blood Warden and Remember Me. Those 3 together can be a bitter surprise for survivors. Killer wasted 3 perks for the whole duration of the match, to have a strong endgame. This is a gamble. Because if he plays against SWF, he has to make sure he kills no one before the gates are powered. Otherwise the team can work around it.NOED being a "late game tactic" doesn't absolve it of being a crutch because there is NOTHING you did to earn it. BW and RM require the killer to actually do something to get the effect, they don't just get it for free (and especially don't get it if they fail).
Putting on DS is a gamble if the killer has obsession perks to punish your team for you being an obsession. See how I can keep doing this?
That's besides the point that putting on a perk isn't a gamble in the first place. A gamble is to do something like slug a guy that was hard to catch in the first place because you want to get the last guy too. Or trying to go for a basement hook when it looks a tad far because doing that will give you a huge advantage. Using a perk that might not be used is not a gamble because if you never use it then it's moot. Plus the fact that you can easily play 1 perk short all game if your other 3 perks are solid (eg. BBQ + Ruin + Nurse's).
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@thesuicidefox said:
@Tsulan said:
I don´t agree. All the survivor has to do to use DS is getting downed. Aka failing.
All the killer has to do to use NOED is track the survivor down and hit him. If he hits more than one, the survivors are cocky or dumb.To get that ability to down them, the killer failed at stopping gens. Again any argument you make for DS I can make for NOED.
Also it's not that hard to find survivors if there are only 2 locations they can go to escape. Also again not hard to chase them when you get an additional speed boost on top of a OHK.
@Tsulan said:
NOED is a lategame tactic like Blood Warden and Remember Me. Those 3 together can be a bitter surprise for survivors. Killer wasted 3 perks for the whole duration of the match, to have a strong endgame. This is a gamble. Because if he plays against SWF, he has to make sure he kills no one before the gates are powered. Otherwise the team can work around it.NOED being a "late game tactic" doesn't absolve it of being a crutch because there is NOTHING you did to earn it. BW and RM require the killer to actually do something to get the effect, they don't just get it for free (and especially don't get it if they fail).
Putting on DS is a gamble if the killer has obsession perks to punish your team for you being an obsession. See how I can keep doing this?
That's besides the point that putting on a perk isn't a gamble in the first place. A gamble is to do something like slug a guy that was hard to catch in the first place because you want to get the last guy too. Or trying to go for a basement hook when it looks a tad far because doing that will give you a huge advantage. Using a perk that might not be used is not a gamble because if you never use it then it's moot. Plus the fact that you can easily play 1 perk short all game if your other 3 perks are solid (eg. BBQ + Ruin + Nurse's).
Let´s agree to not agree.
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Thank god someone else said it as well. I wouldn’t mind DS if the game was balanced for it. NOED... well... I don’t think I’d ever agree with that perk. Suddenly flipping the game like that is kind of cheesy.Mr_Jay_Stark said:I mean I could write a whole wall of text regarding this but no one will read it so I’ll just say I don’t think it’s necessarily the perks that are the problem I believe it’s the mechanics of the game that’s the issue.
Sorry for posting it again but : https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hwMKJtVdFeY
This Huntress had plenty of time without Gen Rush to do well. I did break two totems and was anticipating NOED. I’m sure the rest of my team broke at least two themselves. So because we missed one totem some where, this Killer went from maybe a 2k if he camped that last guy out to a 4K. Never mind he played terrible (You can watch, I had eyes on him the whole match.) He couldn’t land hatchets at all and missed swings like crazy. Me and the 3 other Survivors got cheated out an escape we deserved. All because of one perk.
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I don’t even know how she let both you and Quentin get away at the beginning. Yea she was terrible but I always cringe when I see killers like huntress or anyone with one shot capabilities (unless running add-ons to prevent them from doing so) running NOED! She needed more practice! I’d ask how she got to rank 8 but I think I know how lolSovererignKing said:
Thank god someone else said it as well. I wouldn’t mind DS if the game was balanced for it. NOED... well... I don’t think I’d ever agree with that perk. Suddenly flipping the game like that is kind of cheesy.Mr_Jay_Stark said:I mean I could write a whole wall of text regarding this but no one will read it so I’ll just say I don’t think it’s necessarily the perks that are the problem I believe it’s the mechanics of the game that’s the issue.
Sorry for posting it again but : https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hwMKJtVdFeY
This Huntress had plenty of time without Gen Rush to do well. I did break two totems and was anticipating NOED. I’m sure the rest of my team broke at least two themselves. So because we missed one totem some where, this Killer went from maybe a 2k if he camped that last guy out to a 4K. Never mind he played terrible (You can watch, I had eyes on him the whole match.) He couldn’t land hatchets at all and missed swings like crazy. Me and the 3 other Survivors got cheated out an escape we deserved. All because of one perk.1 -
@Mr_Jay_Stark said:
SovererignKing said:
Mr_Jay_Stark said:I mean I could write a whole wall of text regarding this but no one will read it so I’ll just say I don’t think it’s necessarily the perks that are the problem I believe it’s the mechanics of the game that’s the issue.
Thank god someone else said it as well. I wouldn’t mind DS if the game was balanced for it. NOED... well... I don’t think I’d ever agree with that perk. Suddenly flipping the game like that is kind of cheesy.
Sorry for posting it again but :
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hwMKJtVdFeYThis Huntress had plenty of time without Gen Rush to do well. I did break two totems and was anticipating NOED. I’m sure the rest of my team broke at least two themselves. So because we missed one totem some where, this Killer went from maybe a 2k if he camped that last guy out to a 4K. Never mind he played terrible (You can watch, I had eyes on him the whole match.) He couldn’t land hatchets at all and missed swings like crazy. Me and the 3 other Survivors got cheated out an escape we deserved. All because of one perk.
I don’t even know how she let both you and Quentin get away at the beginning. Yea she was terrible but I always cringe when I see killers like huntress or anyone with one shot capabilities (unless running add-ons to prevent them from doing so) running NOED! She needed more practice! I’d ask how she got to rank 8 but I think I know how lol
Maybe not used to play Huntress and got a daily.
Happens to me all the time.0 -
I mean I’d get that because I use NOED on leatherface (yes I admit it) and that’s because he’s a terrible killer (in my opinion) but he’s too defensive and I don’t like defending the hook(what survivors call camping) but like for me NOED only takes me so far on leatherface I’m lucky to get one kill and that’s because I don’t defend the hook but I use it because I know it could guarantee me at least one killTsulan said:@Mr_Jay_Stark said:
SovererignKing said:
Mr_Jay_Stark said:I mean I could write a whole wall of text regarding this but no one will read it so I’ll just say I don’t think it’s necessarily the perks that are the problem I believe it’s the mechanics of the game that’s the issue.
Thank god someone else said it as well. I wouldn’t mind DS if the game was balanced for it. NOED... well... I don’t think I’d ever agree with that perk. Suddenly flipping the game like that is kind of cheesy.
Sorry for posting it again but :
This Huntress had plenty of time without Gen Rush to do well. I did break two totems and was anticipating NOED. I’m sure the rest of my team broke at least two themselves. So because we missed one totem some where, this Killer went from maybe a 2k if he camped that last guy out to a 4K. Never mind he played terrible (You can watch, I had eyes on him the whole match.) He couldn’t land hatchets at all and missed swings like crazy. Me and the 3 other Survivors got cheated out an escape we deserved. All because of one perk.
I don’t even know how she let both you and Quentin get away at the beginning. Yea she was terrible but I always cringe when I see killers like huntress or anyone with one shot capabilities (unless running add-ons to prevent them from doing so) running NOED! She needed more practice! I’d ask how she got to rank 8 but I think I know how lol
Maybe not used to play Huntress and got a daily.
Happens to me all the time.0 -
He doesn’t usually play Huntress. I’ve faced him multiple times, he usually plays Leatherface with Insidious and NOED. I get that in the current meta, NOED can be used as a perk to balance Gen Rush games, but at the same time what’s balanced for good Killers that get Gen Rushed can easily carry bad Killers. It’s not as bad as how much DS carries bad Survivors mind you, but it’s the principle that irks me.Tsulan said:@Mr_Jay_Stark said:
SovererignKing said:
Mr_Jay_Stark said:I mean I could write a whole wall of text regarding this but no one will read it so I’ll just say I don’t think it’s necessarily the perks that are the problem I believe it’s the mechanics of the game that’s the issue.
Thank god someone else said it as well. I wouldn’t mind DS if the game was balanced for it. NOED... well... I don’t think I’d ever agree with that perk. Suddenly flipping the game like that is kind of cheesy.
Sorry for posting it again but :
This Huntress had plenty of time without Gen Rush to do well. I did break two totems and was anticipating NOED. I’m sure the rest of my team broke at least two themselves. So because we missed one totem some where, this Killer went from maybe a 2k if he camped that last guy out to a 4K. Never mind he played terrible (You can watch, I had eyes on him the whole match.) He couldn’t land hatchets at all and missed swings like crazy. Me and the 3 other Survivors got cheated out an escape we deserved. All because of one perk.
I don’t even know how she let both you and Quentin get away at the beginning. Yea she was terrible but I always cringe when I see killers like huntress or anyone with one shot capabilities (unless running add-ons to prevent them from doing so) running NOED! She needed more practice! I’d ask how she got to rank 8 but I think I know how lol
Maybe not used to play Huntress and got a daily.
Happens to me all the time.
The developers need to do something about Gen Rush and bad map balance. Then do something about NOED. DS is already on the chopping block, NOED needs to go or changed as well. However, only *after* the developers do something about Gen Rush and poor map design.0 -
Ew gross leatherface with insidious AND NOED yea he doesn’t rely on the killers abilities at all and only likes those cheeseball kills. I’ll make sure to keep note of him thanks for the heads upSovererignKing said:
He doesn’t usually play Huntress. I’ve faced him multiple times, he usually plays Leatherface with Insidious and NOED. I get that in the current meta, NOED can be used as a perk to balance Gen Rush games, but at the same time what’s balanced for good Killers that get Gen Rushed can easily carry bad Killers. It’s not as bad as how much DS carries bad Survivors mind you, but it’s the principle that irks me.Tsulan said:@Mr_Jay_Stark said:
SovererignKing said:
Mr_Jay_Stark said:I mean I could write a whole wall of text regarding this but no one will read it so I’ll just say I don’t think it’s necessarily the perks that are the problem I believe it’s the mechanics of the game that’s the issue.
Thank god someone else said it as well. I wouldn’t mind DS if the game was balanced for it. NOED... well... I don’t think I’d ever agree with that perk. Suddenly flipping the game like that is kind of cheesy.
Sorry for posting it again but :
This Huntress had plenty of time without Gen Rush to do well. I did break two totems and was anticipating NOED. I’m sure the rest of my team broke at least two themselves. So because we missed one totem some where, this Killer went from maybe a 2k if he camped that last guy out to a 4K. Never mind he played terrible (You can watch, I had eyes on him the whole match.) He couldn’t land hatchets at all and missed swings like crazy. Me and the 3 other Survivors got cheated out an escape we deserved. All because of one perk.
I don’t even know how she let both you and Quentin get away at the beginning. Yea she was terrible but I always cringe when I see killers like huntress or anyone with one shot capabilities (unless running add-ons to prevent them from doing so) running NOED! She needed more practice! I’d ask how she got to rank 8 but I think I know how lol
Maybe not used to play Huntress and got a daily.
Happens to me all the time.
The developers need to do something about Gen Rush and bad map balance. Then do something about NOED. DS is already on the chopping block, NOED needs to go or changed as well. However, only *after* the developers do something about Gen Rush and poor map design.
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I think we can all talk about these perks from the perspective of one side or the other until we are blue in the face.
The fact of the matter is that Ruin, NOED, DS are band aid perks that have no place in the game once the correect balance has been found. I am not convinced they will ever find it myself but I hope to be proved wrong.
What is really needed is a way to balance the clock for the killer who currently feels like they are in a race against time from the moment the match starts. That generators can be completed to easily is not in doubt. What survivors need is a range of different objectives that are required to get the gates opened that requires more teamwork. Maybe it should be 4 generators, 2 battery cells and searching through random chests for part of the handle to activiate the door.
I for one get so bored in some games where the killer is chasing someone else and I have to do m1 simulator on 4 gens in a row. It needs changing up so that the survivors have more jobs to complete to escape and the killer therefore gains a little more time to catch and hook them. No Ruin needed to slow the gens, no NOED to use once the gens have been rushed through with 3 repair toolboxes and no DS to get a survivor out of jail free after being caught.
On the topic of other perks being chopped, Dying Light needs to go. The idea of a perk that encourages a killer to camp and tunnel down a target is absurd and I can't believe it is still in the game.
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Stop whinging for Christ sake noed and ds etc they are all part of the game and if you lost to noed then that's your fault. I use noed tier 3 on my leatherface and in some matches especially when I have been pallet slammed, pallet looped etc it's been really helpful.thesuicidefox said:
"Get rid of Decisive, Insidious, and NOED and rank would be a lot more skill based."
He is 100% right. DS and NOED are crutch perks for bad players. Killers defend NOED until they are blue in the face but at the end of the day it's there as a comeback mechanic for when you fail, making it a crutch (just like DS). If you need this perk to get kills, accept that you aren't as good a killer as you might think. And if you complain about DS but use NOED you are nothing but a hypocrite.
I agree with him on Insidious only because it makes people play like trolls, not necessarily because it's a crutch. With a few tweaks I think it could be salvaged.
BTW I got to rank 1 with Freddy without using NOED, just incase someone wants to tell me "git gud". Also I'm sure some killer main will say something like "Tru is a bad killer" as a way to dismiss his statements, when the truth is they just can't stand when one of their own actually tells it how it is.
Come at me.
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@SovererignKing said:
Tsulan said:@Mr_Jay_Stark said:
SovererignKing said:
Mr_Jay_Stark said: I mean I could write a whole wall of text regarding this but no one will read it so I’ll just say I don’t think it’s necessarily the perks that are the problem I believe it’s the mechanics of the game that’s the issue. Thank god someone else said it as well. I wouldn’t mind DS if the game was balanced for it. NOED... well... I don’t think I’d ever agree with that perk. Suddenly flipping the game like that is kind of cheesy. Sorry for posting it again but : This Huntress had plenty of time without Gen Rush to do well. I did break two totems and was anticipating NOED. I’m sure the rest of my team broke at least two themselves. So because we missed one totem some where, this Killer went from maybe a 2k if he camped that last guy out to a 4K. Never mind he played terrible (You can watch, I had eyes on him the whole match.) He couldn’t land hatchets at all and missed swings like crazy. Me and the 3 other Survivors got cheated out an escape we deserved. All because of one perk.
I don’t even know how she let both you and Quentin get away at the beginning. Yea she was terrible but I always cringe when I see killers like huntress or anyone with one shot capabilities (unless running add-ons to prevent them from doing so) running NOED! She needed more practice! I’d ask how she got to rank 8 but I think I know how lol
Maybe not used to play Huntress and got a daily.
Happens to me all the time.
He doesn’t usually play Huntress. I’ve faced him multiple times, he usually plays Leatherface with Insidious and NOED. I get that in the current meta, NOED can be used as a perk to balance Gen Rush games, but at the same time what’s balanced for good Killers that get Gen Rushed can easily carry bad Killers. It’s not as bad as how much DS carries bad Survivors mind you, but it’s the principle that irks me.
The developers need to do something about Gen Rush and bad map balance. Then do something about NOED. DS is already on the chopping block, NOED needs to go or changed as well. However, only after the developers do something about Gen Rush and poor map design.
There ya go. Someone who got a daily with a killer/survivor he´s not used to.
Not discussing about NOED.We can agree to disagree on this one
Maybe once we get better endgame perks and people can actually prepare a strategy around that. Maybe than we will discuss again.
I personally would love it, if Blood Warden was activatable just like DH. Pressing a button. Maybe keep the 1 hook requirement after gates are powered (not open). So i makes more sense.0 -
Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
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Here's a philosophical question for you; If NOED didn't exist, would survivors ever bother doing dull totems? You might as well take dull totems out of the game if you remove NOED, because they would never be a threat again. And since the threat of possible NOED is gone, the time wasted by the survivors searching for and breaking totems to ensure a safe ending is gone then.
Now I know, most survivors don't expect NOED and don't bother with it because the vast majority of killers don't even run it (in part due to the same shaming that inhibits camping and chasing injured survivors) but imagine if NOED was a meta perk for killers and now survivors start spreading game time between breaking all the totems, fixing gens, AND dealing with the killer. Well, killers stopped running NOED so much because "Much skill, much fair" so in turn gen rushing got a lot worse because survivors get no real repercussion for it and no fear associated with the endgame.
Personally, I think NOED needs a buff. I think the endgame should be a crutch situation, because for 1, at this point of the game all the survivors should at least be close to a single pip, so dying here is negligible anyway tbh, you'll rank up and not everyone needs to escape. For 2, if you make the endgame a legitimate threat instead of pretty much the fail state for killers (because I don't believe that having all gens done mean survivors win anyway, how is that logical when you consider blood warden and remember me exist, not to mention NOED Being there from jump)
Take NOED you streamline gen rushing because there will no longer be a counter to gen rush. Take DS, and yea, survivors lose a single mindgame. A mindgame that they don't even need, since DS works on everyone anyway
All that being said... if they actually balance the hatch stand off situation, by all means take all 3 away1 -
How do you deserve an escape, when you didn’t even open a gate? The killer had 3 perks working while you guys fixed all the gens. He didn’t get a 4k “because of one gen”, he got a 4k because you didn’t play the end game very well, and the other guy was overly altruistic.SovererignKing said:
Thank god someone else said it as well. I wouldn’t mind DS if the game was balanced for it. NOED... well... I don’t think I’d ever agree with that perk. Suddenly flipping the game like that is kind of cheesy.Mr_Jay_Stark said:I mean I could write a whole wall of text regarding this but no one will read it so I’ll just say I don’t think it’s necessarily the perks that are the problem I believe it’s the mechanics of the game that’s the issue.
Sorry for posting it again but : https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hwMKJtVdFeY
This Huntress had plenty of time without Gen Rush to do well. I did break two totems and was anticipating NOED. I’m sure the rest of my team broke at least two themselves. So because we missed one totem some where, this Killer went from maybe a 2k if he camped that last guy out to a 4K. Never mind he played terrible (You can watch, I had eyes on him the whole match.) He couldn’t land hatchets at all and missed swings like crazy. Me and the 3 other Survivors got cheated out an escape we deserved. All because of one perk.
Not to mention this “crutch perk” the killer was using can be disabled before it even has a chance
of activating just by you guys cleansing totems. You
failed at that, you paid the price. That’s why I run detectives hunch, I routinely cleanse 3-5 totems per match JUST to avoid NOED. You cleaned two and you assume your teammates cleaned two, but they could just have easily have cleaned zero. I have seen many flat out ignore the totems.
You could have sat near the door and waited for Huntress to check it and leave instead of just going
for it right away. And the other guy could have gotten closer to you to avoid BBQ and tricked Huntress by rescuing you first instead of the other guy but he went right for the other hook, which is what every killer expects.
NOED is great for catching unsuspecting survivors off guard and turning the tide of a match, but it’s entirely limited to end game, and is instantly rendered irrelevant by cleansing totems or SWF.3 -
@Tsulan said:
Maybe not used to play Huntress and got a daily.
Happens to me all the time.So you are saying they are using it to make up for a lack of skill.
That's a crutch.
@douggie123 said:
Stop whinging for Christ sake noed and ds etc they are all part of the game and if you lost to noed then that's your fault. I use noed tier 3 on my leatherface and in some matches especially when I have been pallet slammed, pallet looped etc it's been really helpful.So you use it to make up for the fact you failed or played poorly (or were outplayed by players better than you)?
That's a crutch.
@only1biggs said:
Even a broken clock is right twice a day.No it isn't LOL. Is this some BS Chinese proverb you are just parroting?
My power went out the other day and the clock on my microwave said 1:00 when it was actually like 7:00. 12 hours later, the clock will still be wrong. SMH
@Dr_doom_j2 said:
Here's a philosophical question for you; If NOED didn't exist, would survivors ever bother doing dull totems?Yes because it's still free points. I do dull totems even when I can be sure the killer doesn't have NOED. Do I do them all? No because it's a waste of time. Will I do the few I happen across? Most likely if I can spare the time.
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Super late into the conversation. I use NOED on Freddy because I can't use Ruin. I don't know that it's really fair to call it a crutch because the killer was bad. Gens get done SO quick. We've all been in matches where 2-3 gens get done in the first 3 minutes and you barely hooked your first survivor. NOED just balances it out. I wouldn't be against NOED being removed, but I'd expect they balance the game a little more to extend matches a bit before they did that.
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@iceman2kx said:
Super late into the conversation. I use NOED on Freddy because I can't use Ruin. I don't know that it's really fair to call it a crutch because the killer was bad. Gens get done SO quick. We've all been in matches where 2-3 gens get done in the first 3 minutes and you barely hooked your first survivor. NOED just balances it out. I wouldn't be against NOED being removed, but I'd expect they balance the game a little more to extend matches a bit before they did that.I play Freddy at rank 1 without NOED. You do not need it, people need to stop saying this. And besides the fact that you really don't need it, every time you say "I need this" you just reinforce my point that it is a crutch.
Try Sloppy Butcher + Nurse's Calling on Freddy. You will be surprised how effective it is. Also if you want a more reliable end game perk use Remember Me. It takes more skill to use but is probably more effective than NOED since all you need to do is sleep people with 6 tokens and there is no opening the doors. It can stall the game as well as Ruin, and it does so at a point where survivors can't recover.
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I do alright as Freddy with Ruin. Trick with Ruin is don’t protect it unless the Survivors are hovering around it and desperate to get it. Then you can use it as bait easy. Otherwise, just forget you even brought it and let it buy you as much time as you can. NOED does balance out Gen Rush, however even if you aren’t getting Rushed, it can still easily carry a bad Killer.iceman2kx said:Super late into the conversation. I use NOED on Freddy because I can't use Ruin. I don't know that it's really fair to call it a crutch because the killer was bad. Gens get done SO quick. We've all been in matches where 2-3 gens get done in the first 3 minutes and you barely hooked your first survivor. NOED just balances it out. I wouldn't be against NOED being removed, but I'd expect they balance the game a little more to extend matches a bit before they did that.
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So it’s perfectly fine for a Killer to play like garbage for the whole match right up until the end? DS has Dribbling and Enduring, but those are garbage counters as well. Your justification for NOED is just as bad as many Survivors justification for DS. The Survivors didn’t play poorly, they played well and did the object. Hell, cleansing dull totems doesn’t do anything other than give 600 BP.Well_Placed_HexTotem said:
How do you deserve an escape, when you didn’t even open a gate? The killer had 3 perks working while you guys fixed all the gens. He didn’t get a 4k “because of one gen”, he got a 4k because you didn’t play the end game very well, and the other guy was overly altruistic.SovererignKing said:
Thank god someone else said it as well. I wouldn’t mind DS if the game was balanced for it. NOED... well... I don’t think I’d ever agree with that perk. Suddenly flipping the game like that is kind of cheesy.Mr_Jay_Stark said:I mean I could write a whole wall of text regarding this but no one will read it so I’ll just say I don’t think it’s necessarily the perks that are the problem I believe it’s the mechanics of the game that’s the issue.
Sorry for posting it again but : https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hwMKJtVdFeY
This Huntress had plenty of time without Gen Rush to do well. I did break two totems and was anticipating NOED. I’m sure the rest of my team broke at least two themselves. So because we missed one totem some where, this Killer went from maybe a 2k if he camped that last guy out to a 4K. Never mind he played terrible (You can watch, I had eyes on him the whole match.) He couldn’t land hatchets at all and missed swings like crazy. Me and the 3 other Survivors got cheated out an escape we deserved. All because of one perk.
Not to mention this “crutch perk” the killer was using can be disabled before it even has a chance
of activating just by you guys cleansing totems. You
failed at that, you paid the price. That’s why I run detectives hunch, I routinely cleanse 3-5 totems per match JUST to avoid NOED. You cleaned two and you assume your teammates cleaned two, but they could just have easily have cleaned zero. I have seen many flat out ignore the totems.
You could have sat near the door and waited for Huntress to check it and leave instead of just going
for it right away. And the other guy could have gotten closer to you to avoid BBQ and tricked Huntress by rescuing you first instead of the other guy but he went right for the other hook, which is what every killer expects.
NOED is great for catching unsuspecting survivors off guard and turning the tide of a match, but it’s entirely limited to end game, and is instantly rendered irrelevant by cleansing totems or SWF.
Im not saying NOED is on the same level as DS. It’s not, DS is worse. However, the amount of work required for NOED is not at all equal to the reward it gives. It goes way too far and gives too much.
I’d be willing to make a compromise. NOED just needs a nerf. Keep the one shot, however remove the speed boost. Deal?2
