Survivor sided based on what.....
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For me?
I stopped playing Killer because I found it unfun, frustrating and gave me weird anxiety.
As a survivor at any rank I can run whatever I want and it literally doesn't matter, I can still get out and do objectives and things.
I have fun, I play without any stress and if I want to try a new build I can because survivors can perfectly function, and not be dead weight, with no perks.
Is the game actually survivor sided? Maybe. For me it definitely is though.
Hell, just look at how easy it is to adept any Survivor compared to any Killer.
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Please show me. I'm tired of you crying in every single one of your posts.
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You are literally admitting map design determines game balance
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Show me please
Please.
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Why would I have a bias? I'm purely objective pardner :))
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"If survivors die in two minutes, it's due to their own mistakes completely"
This, flipped for killers is how gen rush happens. "If killers get gen rushed, it's due to their own mistakes"
I am not denying gen rush happens against really bad killers in less that 1% of games. I have been on SWF teams where we have done it. But we can only do it against killers who are really very bad.
You're doing that thing where people confuse possible with probable. It's very possible that all gens can be popped in around 2.5 minutes too, it's just not probable. Like 3,4,5 min games are possible, not very probable, but more likely in SWF v potato killer. Gen speed is fine, completely fine. Any longer and the game will be even more boring as killer v randoms, as it's really easy to 4k before all gens pop anyway.
I am a killer main, it's just stupidly easy to win, until you play SWF, then the game gets interesting. So, just because your ds complaining, slugging (brown/yellow rank tactics) doesn't cut it in any ranks worth talking about, don't be thinking everyone is as bad as you are
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Slugging = Brown/Yellow rank tactic?
lolz
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I would just like to point out that I've had multiple matches where I've started and been in the terror radius of the killer (Huntress humming within two seconds on the match starting). Hell one match I even started on top of a hill looking at Michael less than 15 seconds walking distance away. So it doesn't always take long to find people.
Plus when I play killer, I always run Whispers so I'm usually in a chase within the first 20 seconds of a match, sometimes sooner depending on spawns.
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So I've noticed the primary reason people are stating is this "3 gens can be done in 80 seconds if all survivors not in chase hop on a gen".
In an ideal world, that's absolutely true. However, just like people are saying with the kill rate data, this is not a 100% valid statement because there are other factors.
- Just because a survivor is in a chase, doesn't mean it's safe for me to be on a gen. If the chase is happening close enough to me, I have to move or hide in order to not become a target. It's it's a Michael, I have to hide so I don't get stalked. etc
- Let's say every survivor hops on the closest gen when they start and gets in the full 80 seconds while always hitting great skill checks through Ruin (which I've even seen some of the best players miss because no one is perfect). This would mean all 3 gens in the same area are done and the game is probably going to end up in a 3 gen strat situation. So while on paper, sure it's fine to talk about 80 second gen times, what that does later in the game VASTLY slows down the speed that gens will get done because the killer will have an easier time patrolling and applying pressure.
- People talk about how long it takes to down survivors. Idk how yall games go, but I almost always have someone down and on a hook before a gen pops. Rarely do gens start popping before I end my first chase. Use Whispers, find people early, and start the ball rolling.
Are there any points I didn't address? If so let me know.
Also holy crap, I left this thread alone for like a day and came back to a lot of notifications
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A pleasant surprise, I bet :3
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The point is that a perfect killer against perfect survivors will always lose, and how would the Spirit prevent 3 generators from being completed? It does not matter which killer you are, you can only chase one person at a time, the rest are bound to hug generators.
Discordance as I said, would have been inconsequential as you would only be able to chase one person, you chase one, the other goes back to the generator, so on and so forth, it would have delayed the outcome at best, there is no possible play the Spirit could have done to prevent at least 3 people from escaping, the survivors would have to just hand over the win in a silver platter for that to happen.
Both of your mentions, ScottJund and Tru3howevertherestofthenameiswritten, will tell you the same thing, that they mostly go against potato survivors, which is why they 4K or 3K the great majority of their games, and that a perfect killer against perfect survivors will lose every single time.
As to the Ghostface against BNPs/Keys SWF, really the only way they lose with that is by making a lot of mistakes, which probably means their choices were not the greatest during that match, I am considering an optimal scenario in which both the killer and the survivors play at their best.
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If someone is in chase next to a generator, the progress of that generator will be impaired, not impeded, and that is only one generator, there are still other 2 which are most likely being worked on.
Even if a great team of survivors 3 gen themselves, it will likely ensure 3 people escaping, because even if the killer continuously rotates in between the three generators and keeps downing people, the final generator will still be done before more than one person dies, and that is assuming that they do not avoid 3-gen'ing themselves, they can just work on a generator on the opposing end of the map and easily prevent a 3-gen.
Chase length will vary depending on the skill of the survivor, when you run into a survivor who actually knows what they are doing, chases will last ages, I assure you.
As to the statistics you mentioned, they are accounting for hook-suicides, potato survivors, etc, it does not represent an optimal scenario and they should not be taken into account, and even if they are, most killers sit at under 75%, which means they are killing 2 survivors per match.
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Map design is a significant part of why the balance is so very poor, yes, but other things do contribute to it.
Even if you removed every pallet on the map and sealed off all windows so chases would end in 30 seconds, it would not be very fun for the survivor, you could have the most balanced game in existence but nobody will play if it is not fun, and then there are still other problematic features such as second chance perks like Decisive Strike, Dead Hard, Deliverance, Unbreakable, and their ilk.
The problem is not just map design, it is not just generator speeds and it is not just second chance perks, it is a combination of them all that shifts the balance drastically to one side, some of these things are more of a problem than others but they are intrinsically linked, example: would map design and chase extenders be such a problem if generators were not completed by the end of every chase?
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I don't believe there is any evidence suggesting one way or another except that killers have a way easier time at higher ranks. When you got Otz, and Tru3 basically getting 4k's 20 games in a row, and in Tru3's case another 20 games or whatever at rank 1. It really makes you wonder which side is actually the stronger side. You can argue but if the survivors are playing the best they can play! But what about Killer's? If both can just slaughter survivors at rank 1 consistently, shouldn't that count for something? What is it, out of those 60 rank 1 games or whatever did they not find an optimal team to play against?
I heard the argument saying that Tru3 and Otz play the game for a living so they are basically professionals, but like...it's always the best survivors against mediocre killers how is that fair either?
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@BloodyNights As you said it, they are professionals who play this game for a living, probably 40 hours a week, with thousands of hours of experience. If the game was balanced, they would 4k 98-99% of the time because they would rarely face survivors with the same level of experience.
I'm a survivor main but I also play killer. I think even 4 solos are more powerful than a killer. The problem is that especially solo players often waste too much time and don't focus on the objective or they make bad tactical decision.
Yesterday, I played solo surv and we got the first 4 gens done in 3:15 minutes. The killer couldn't have done anything to prevent this from happening. He was dependent on me making a mistake in the chase, the mistake didn't happen early enough. I know that with a full SWF it would have been 5 gens, not 4.
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I pointed them out, because people always try to say that when a killer does well, it's because the survivors were potatoes. Those same people who play 40 hours a week in swf groups at red ranks seem to die almost as much as they survive. I even made fun of Tru3 during one of his streams because he died like 6 games in a row. I was just messing with him, but it happened.
Also are you saying you died in the game where your solo team did 4 gens in 3 minutes basically? Which by the way I don't care if you are playing The Clown, if that many gens got done that quickly they weren't playing well. Also I can do a reverse and say I killed every survivor in like 2 minutes of the game starting. It's anecdotal at best.
The best run I've seen for a survivor living, was Noob3, and he was with swf, and his friend basically would sacrifice himself to make sure he lived at any cost.
As for myself, I average 3-4k, depending on if I want the last person to have the hatch or not. And if I think I'm screwed because of gen speed, I purposefully guard certain gens to create the dreaded 3 gen lock, which is what I assumed killed your solo team. Do I have bad games? Yup, they happen. but it isn't the average. And even that data they gave earlier suggested that 3k were fairly average among most killers. So I'm confused about where this data is from that the game is survivor sided?
We got high level killers able to consistently 4k survivors many games in a row. I personally average 3-4k majority of games. And then there are people complaining that survivors are op when the data also shows the average is 3k. Like what? What makes this survivor sided again? The ranking system? If you go by pips? Sure it isn't that hard, I don't because the game rules constantly change. If I use the add-ons for Michael like it's stated and use tombstone, and Tuft of Hair. Kill all the survivors with it, I De-pip. But I get a trophy for completing a challenge, so clearly the pipping system is trash. And that is a different story.
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@BloodyNights If you want to know how my story ended: We also got the 5th gen done, one person got downed with NOED and hooked in the basement. Instead of keeping safety distance and looking for NOED (or simply leaving through the gates), the other two let themselves NOED and get brought to the basement as well. I left since the only thing I could have done would have been feeding the killer the 4k.
So it's a great example of the killer depending on the survivors making mistakes.
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Oh well you said if it would have been with a full swf group you would have gotten 5 done, which is why I assumed you didn't. Honestly I've never had a game go that fast before it kind of racks my brain that a killer would be that poor at chasing/breaking chases that they'd let that many gens get finished so quickly. Even if they failed at killing the survivors the game should have lasted longer. Mistakes or not.
Also it sounds like the others were swf themselves, and a common weakness of swf is altruism. They kill themselves more times than not trying to save their friends. Regardless of ranks.
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@BloodyNights Oh, I just meant that with a SWF we would have done 5 gens by 3:15, because of the better coordination.
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Maybe in theory but lol Bc killers don’t take a lobby of 4 toolboxes
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If the killer makes zero mistakes, and the survivors make zero mistakes (which is impossible) the killer shouldn't get a single kill because there are 4 players versus 1, and none of these 4 players making any mistake means they should escape
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Generators aren't though.
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They are, because generator speeds only become a problem when compared to chase time, if you tried to balance the game without touching generators you would have to make every chase end early enough so that the killer has time to hook a survivor, walk across the map to the generator and prevent it from being completed, and with that there is a problem: the chases would have to made very short, so short that they become blatantly boring with how fast survivors will go down, and as I said, you could have a perfectly balanced game but no one will play it if it is not fun.
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Generator speed is based on hook times bud
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Can you provide a link to the explanation?
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Do I have to? The devs explain it all the time :(
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I'd appreciate it :3
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I would love to play against this "depip squad" I love challenge. I Have played a few games where tactical squads have popped 2 gens in around 60 seconds, but as they were edge of map gens, I don't care. I don't "win" those matches but I sure as ######### stinks, don't continue to be gen rushed from that point.
I end chases quickly, either by downing or not continuing. My killer build is based on gen patrolling, so there's no way players are banging out gens like that against me.
I accept I will "lose" those games. I accept it because 4 experienced players with a plan, tools, useful perks coming into a match should always result in a victory for them. I accept it because these games are RARE, most games end in "wins" and 4k, even against strong SWF teams.
I am kit sure what you're asking to be done. The original question was, is the game biased towards survivors. The answer is no, survivors lose more games than they win, teams of survivors lose more games than they win, red rank survivors lose more games than they win. That's the vast majority of survivors, losing! How is that survivor biased?
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Wait I'm on mobile rn I can't figure out how to do it.
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That's ok - You can show me later, or perhaps someone else can in the meantime.
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Please record a video while playing survivor, do 1 gen and 1 save and kill urself, let us see you black pip.
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survivors have too much info as a swf which is all you see in high ranks since it provides a ton of info and also helps find matches. in a game the gens can be done in under 5 minutes if all survivors focus on gens and don't get downed in 40 seconds and since good survivors who play safe which most do can last over a minute in a chase you can't apply that much pressure by hooking/ downing. If you get a big map as a killer who can't traverse the map quickly you will lose when against these survivors. Too many loops in this game are safe and don't allow mind games, there are also god loops that get abused. Survivors have plenty of crutch perks while the only perk that can be considered crutch against these survivors is NOED. Im sure i missed a few other examples but seriously if you put an equally skilled group of survivors against a equally skilled killer the survivors win.
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Completely not true and is not backed by actual data.
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