BHVR already said they're happy with how new Ruin PTB is playing out? uhm how

You realize that Peanits just announced that they're going to lower the delay between using Shock Therapy and attacking? And for Legion, they made multiple changes to him between PTB and Live?

I don't like the changes to Ruin either (Specifically, I don't like that they didn't really address the issue of gen speeds), but we shouldn't spread a false narrative.

If the change is being made for inexperienced players are you not getting bad info by using very experienced players?

How is this change affecting the killers that 15+ rank players face.

Or was this intended to make the game easier for newer players being taken into high ranks with SWF?

lmao did at least 3 survivors spawn 16 meters in front of it?

Spirit was not gutted at all. Did you really only rely on beads or collision with her? Shes still broken and easy to 4k with without ruin or pop. I hope she gets nerfed so I dont feel ashamed of using her. Oni got his flick back and the ptb killers playing him liked him. Freddy gets more kills than even spirit now. So again. Wrong. Legion was totally broken and poorly designed. They had to gut him. Why would you allow a poor mechanic to continue to be used? Bias? I'm sure theyll rework him like they did freddy.

If you think BL is the only nerf survivors have gotten this year you clearly arent paying any attention at all. If you think spirits nerf was impactful at all you werent good with her to begin with. If you think leaving nurse to be god like tier forever was okay, you're clearly bias.

Being a " experienced " player doesnt mean youre good and know what the game needs.

I bet you stopped reading. Couldn't handle a spirit main telling you shes easy and you're just not that good with her cause you chose to rely solely on collision instead of your ears, scratch marks and laughably easy "mind games" she can play on survivors. Anyone that defends spirit I know immediately is ignorant or bias bc I play her. If you stopped reading and only believing the baby killer complaints, and listen to the good ones, you might actually learn something and get better.

Guys, stop arguing with the Dev as you are all emotionally driven to say all these things and Dev have out right said that they will ignore all the emotional driven post.

Feeling stressed or burned out? Why not try out Warframe? The community is chill, the veterans are helpful. There are a ton of things to do if you don't mind to farm them or you have the option to pay for them. It is a bit intimidating for new player because there are so many things you can customise, but if you take your time to figure it out or just get a veteran to advise you, you will get the hang of it in no time. The most important thing is Warframe is free to play, no entry fee needed.

Dont be a potatoes and apply pressure to gens and you'll be fine. I've noticed that most people have been ignoring hex but imo new Ruin shouldve just been a regular perk than a Hex. This is still gonna pop early game if survivors are good.

Your response makes absolutely no sense considering one of the main reasons ruin was changed was due to new players coming into the game brand new. How do you expect them to hit those skill checks? The red skull checks are gone and that will definitely help them gain new players and with the new Xbox and PS5 arriving at the end of the year it's a smart move because they will definitely port the game and will make the game more friendly to new players. So instead of calling people a "potato" how about you give the game a chance and if you can't seem to succeed without ruin (one perk out of how many killer perks?) you might want to evaluate how you play the game.

First they came for borrowed time,

And I said nothing, for I do not run borrowed time.

Then they came for decisive strike,

And I said nothing, for I do not run decisive strike.

Then they came for balanced landing,

And I said nothing, for I do not run balanced landing.

Then they came for ruin,

And there was no one left to speak for ruin.

Tell me how, as trapper I am supposed to set up, and then make my way across the map before two gens pop.

At this point even with ruin, as a killer I have to accept unless I get potato's I'm losing 3 gens off the bat for not playing a high mobility killer.

Strong overused perks get nerfed, that's the environment we're in now. People cry and point their fingers at each other and nobody shows any sympathy for the other side. That's the meta we've created. If it was a survivor nerf, I would have changed the poem to reflect nurse, spirit, and freddy.

The problem with this “select group” is that there’s been players with just as many hours as them washed on the side because they may be more free being critical of the game... me and other ex-players, depip squad/other tourni players, and tydetyme aren’t exactly in this select group which seems to be more casual favoured.

Dunno if the devs are just fed up of competitive players but it feels that way... just about every competitive player has agreed generators are busted/survivors control too much of the outcome but at the same time survivor needs to be more fun by having more to do that’s interactive.

Changing ruin really does require doing something about generators at the exact same time of a change... and ruin needs to be stronger than what’s on the ptb. Ruin was basically not picked in tournaments because of how fallible it already was... but it makes (made) games far less stressful to killers over the massive amount of games played where it works and has an effect.

Playing without ruin is incredibly stressful for the killer and depends on the survivors not falling for any kind of tricks. Tricks become learnable and counter-able though.

I dunno if BVHR have a built hate for competitive players in their game but it’s undeniable we’ve been ignored, yes competitive players are roofless and dramatic giving feedback but that’s the nature of people who want something and fight for it, but most games have competitive teams in tournaments in some way (i.e. esports) to balance out a game for long term health... the esports-side usually line-up points of balance and content creators who play a game normally come up with ways to make the game more fun.

Over the years: I’d say survivors and killers have both lost things to do: flashlights, sabotage and exhaustion perks added more to do that isn’t generator based... For killer they’ve lost things to do too stemming from ultra-rares all becoming unpowerful and basic and also basically all killers now are unviable for competitive play even with ruin. (Well there was only nurse but she needed a nerf but along with generators). - these things didn’t get balanced they basically got removed or just have no competitive nature because they’re hard counterable.

The games I can admit felt more relaxing as survivor on the ptb with no ruin but this is completely at the expense of killers being able to properly enjoy themselves. Knowing you only won because your opponents let you isn’t fun. Could ruin get changed - yes but the gameplay loop needed fixing at the same time. The devs haven’t even mentioned this as an issue and it’s getting really concerning now (beyond because red ranks are going to be a meme). The only thing holding balance is people who throw in matches intentionally avoiding the game-play loop entirely as it’s easy to rank up if you pick the right perks... but I can imagine even these players are getting fed up by doing the same thing over and over.

I use Corrupt Intervention. It had better results for me personally than ruin did.

Glad I have a VR headset now and ditching this blatant Killer bullying, because Survivor is so mind-numbingly easy to play now. Not even funny.

Peanits I know you are a Red Rank Survivor yourself. I've seen you play with the likes of Farmer John, Puppers, etc. Surely you know how easy it is right now to just power through Ruin, or even disable it right? You can see how hard Killers are throwing themselves just to fulfill the Emblem System and now its been made even harder for them. You even use infinites and loops to show how easy the Survivor role is. Surely you mentioned these things to the other devs?

I mean, when matchmaking works properly red rank killers go against good survivors who can hit most skill checks.

I agree with people are saying in this one. I think Ruin should eventually get changed, but I also think survivors who can't hit great skill checks don't belong in red ranks, as much as killers who can't apply pressure.

Unless we're talking about keeping the horrid matchmaking logic that pairs one red rank+3 yellow ranks vs a red rank killer, which is just a bigger problem than most things in this game.

Yeah I'm really baffled they chose to address Gatekeeper instead of, you know, making sure killers don't have to just concede gens with no reasonable counterplay sometimes.

Or fixing the rest of the emblem system. I don't really give a damn about it until there's some resemblance of consistency between different killers. The game telling me I win as Legion while killing no one and had a draw as Billy while having a 4k makes no sense. They should refrain from changing OK parts of the emblem system until the rest of it makes a little bit of sense at least.

I'm sorry you think that. It's not at all how any designer on our team operates. New Ruin went through hours of testing with players ranging from brand new to having thousands of hours in the game. Every designer on the team had feedback on it, plus several programmers, and other people in other disciplines. No fewer than 10 people on the team took a serious look at Ruin before we settled on the current design, but it's probably more like 15.

This is not to say I think people are wrong for disliking it; everyone has different views on this kind of thing. But these changes were not made lightly or in a hurry. This design was first documented in August of 2019. Usually I've already discussed a design with 4-5 different people on the design team before the first documentation, so it likely had its genesis around June or July of 2019.

It's understandable with the way these things drop out of nowhere from the community's perspective for people outside the team to think they are sudden. But I assure you they are not. :)