What WOULD make you be ok with the ruin rework?

And I'm arguing from a sustainability point of view. If you run against a 4 man swf, who know what they're doing, on most maps 3 gens will pop in the first 90 seconds. Ruin addressed this, now it lies gutted. CI will next be used to address it, and it too, will be gutted, as has every killer meta that arrived before it.

By the time you hook your first person, you're looking at 3 gens done if you played 100% optimally with zero mistakes and they made at least 2 mistakes. IF they have deadhard, and have a good chain of safe pallets, that's it boio, that's the game. Switching targets mid chase just wastes the 90+ seconds you've spent, in which 60% of the opposing sides objectives are done. This is an abysmal trade off considering that you, the killer, are the one supposedly setting the match pace by the assymetrical philosophy.

Let's say you catch that person without a dead hard, if they're in a SWF, they're likely to get saved by a second chance perk, putting the unhooked, and the rescuer on equal ground, meaning that you now have to waste at the minimum another 20 seconds. If you play as intended, you ignore the unhooked person and chase the rescuer, freeing them up to heal, and setting you up for another 90 second chase, at which point 2 gens are still being worked on and likely pop, so you end your game with at most 2 hooks, less than 25% of your objective. "But those SWF's are rare" I hear you say, which is exactly why they should be the ideal target of balance.

Time and again with major balance changes like this, this exact argument comes up, and gets ignored, giving rise to the first step of the cycle with the next perk. Perhaps instead of just nerfing perks and constantly releasing bandaid fixes, the dev team should really take the time to look at and understand why 60% of the objective gets done in 90 seconds and what they can do at the baseline level to fix that.

Tbh I give the Ruin+Surveillance combo a week or two before people realize there's just not a point to running it, at which point people will bounce from slow build to slow build trying to find something that works, when little does.

You're using 2 perks for the price of an old one. That's objectively worse as a build.

I didn't like the old Ruin due to the random nature of the skill checks and totem spawns. But the new Ruin has his problems aswell. I love the idea but it is not worth as a Hex perk, especially with some totem spawns on old maps. However killers need now a new early game slow perk. Thats something that is int he current state of the game NEEDED alot. If gentimes and maps will get fixed than a early pressure game perk like old Ruin would still have its purpose on Killers like Trapper, Hag, Myers etc.

Sum up:

New Ruin is a cool idea! But we need a new early game pressure perk for Killers OR a change to reduce the gen speed at the START of the game. Late game is not that big of a problem, the BIGGEST problem for Killers is the early game. Pls devs do something about that.

While I get what your saying, it does seem odd that no one uses this same logic when talking about Spirit Fury. Spirit Fury without enduring is pretty useless.

Im not claiming the ruin change is good, im simply stating the reasons for it being BAD that people are saying. By the time a slower killer crosses the map to find a survivor, you could have a gen already done. New ruin only has an effect if a survivor leave the gen, which if they see ruin is in play, theyre less likely to do so.

Currently, you see people getting ready for an unhook as soon as a survivor goes down or shortly after theyve been hooked. New ruin would just make it more likely that same person utilizes the 60 seconds the hooked survivor has before the next hook phase to get a gen done so its not regressing after they leave it.

Notice how none of this has anything to do with chase times... This is why people are saying the killers who didnt need ruin to begin with...Like Billy, are the ones who strangely enough will be able to actually find use in new ruin. They're more likely to be able to cross the map to chase someone off a gen before it gets done.

Making survivors spawn more towards the edges of the map would also help

I often spawn like 10 feet away from a gen

If survivers had to walk atleast 10 seconds before they found a gen you wouldn't have the gen pops before the killer can over there problem

This whole patch is bad, probably the worst I've seen since I started playing. I don't expect unhook behavior to change, as it'll be a week or so before people realize that R+Surv isn't worth the slot combo, even on high mobility killers. I'm just tired of people like OP handwaiving criticism and excusing brain dead design choices that only result in direct harm to the player base. Like I said before, we're back to step one of the cycle before they gut the next killer meta then wonder why they get ######### talked so much by that part of the community.

"Im a killer main. The old Freddy was so OP that I felt guilty playing him."

This thread has peaked

If I had the power. The first thing I would do is

The entity hates weakness and has no tolerance for lazy killers, so the entity protects unhooked survivors for 30 seconds after removal by filling them with an energy that makes them invincible.

Simply, for me, the changes I'd make is calling it something different and adding it as a new perk.

It is so fundamentally different from Hex: Ruin that it rightly should be its own perk.

Secondarily, since this is such a big nerf, I'd say to make it a permanent rather than a Hex.

I honestly believe if they just made ruin give a gen speed reduction based on how many people work on the gen at the same time .One player, no reduction, two players, 10% reduction, three, 20%, etc. Also remove the Hex part or fix totem spawns. To counter this new ruin. Bring prove thyself. One player on said gen with Prove Thyself negates the ruin. Two players with the perk negates the perk and then adds the 10% for each survivor. This will slow the game down as multiple people won't be rushing one gen, spreading the survivors and making the trial slower as Monto has wisely said, just a little bit.

Lol! you think ds is used to make the killer whiff, how naive of you...

DS is used to fix a looping mistake and stop the killer being able to hit you, or to get to unreachable loops from their previous spot.

It is a second chance because it literally erases mistakes that should go punished, Do i need to bring up what this perk does to nurse?

Every survivor becomes 3 hits to down, that is 3 random guesses you must make after a survivor finds cover, 3 chances for a survivor to waste a very large amount of the nurses time just because of a perk, it essentially makes her unplayable.

Don't go telling me that nurse players just need to be more precise either, cover hits are literally a game of eenie meenie miney mo did they go left, did they go right or straight? i don't know.

DS mustve gotten some interesting new powers if it can do all that. I just remember it stunning the killer if they pick up a survivor 60 seconds after unhooking. Your saying it can be used mid-chase too?

They meant DH 😉.

Hold up.. I see a lot of Ideas being thrown out there... but why not just literally keep it simple and to the point!

Keep RUIN a HEX : Just make it Reduce Gen Repair Speeds by like 30-50% while it is up. That's it. It will give us the early game pressure that we are looking for, it will not affect skill checks the way it did for "new players" before that created the problem, and it will still do a good job at slowing down gen speeds for like the first 2-3min of the game while the Hex is up..!

Honestly, I'm a bit surprised that no one had thought of this yet, it's such a simple solution!

Literally can be, 30% Reduced speed lv1, 40% lv2, 50% lv3. Obviously it IS going to be found, probably within the first 5min of the match, so it's not like gen speeds will be reduced all game long. But it will help prevent early game gen rush, and it still allows survivors to work on gens without worrying about "missing great skill checks". Which means they are allowed to have progress, just slower than normal.

Also it would give at least some level of synergy with Thanataphobia making that a more useful Perk than it is now, with the ability of potentially slowing gen speeds by 66% with 4 stacks while Ruin is up.. and forcing survivors to actually LOOK for Ruin rather than sit their gen rushing..

Man, I swear this is the best idea yet, and I didn't even mean to come up with it, I was just reading all the other more complicated ideas and was like, jesus all Ruin was is an attempt to slow early game gen pressure down so why not just keep it as simple as possible and do exactly what we want it to without overly complicated additions..?

I am not sure how to fix ruin but I see some good suggestions on here.

I do have concerns with the current change.

It makes you not want to leave a gen after doing a set amount. With after say 40% would you go for a save and let it regress? Close saves possibly but then it would be back to the gen. That is of course also more dangerous as the killer could come back. I think gens will start to pop a lot more so before a save is made than now.

It also removes the want to heal someone after an unhook if progress on a gen has been made as each second is letting it remove the work you have done.

I also feel it doesn't help new players as they are extremely timid and leave a gen and hide at the hint of a heartbeat. This will make it harder for them than the old one.

New players I feel will still want to find the totem while those with enough knowledge of thebgame will sit on it until complete if the killer doesn't come near.

I feel it promotes doing gens faster as staying on it is more beneficial imo compounding a problem.

Maybe it will be best to see why killers are using ruin, I question you devs and anyone who thinks the gens speeds and the ruin changes are fine, you must think about all killers who are and have been complaining about gens.

In my opinion you should rework every generator perk the Generators themselves well as the toolbox + add ons this is because they don’t really work together in a friendly way and it’s just survivors fighting killers over generator speed “toolbox v ruin”.

As a killer main who has played over 3000h, generators progressively keep getting faster even with ruin, maybe it’s perhaps the ruin/totem spots, but to nerf ruin is just blank stupidity. Yes it was a step in the right direction but don’t be that crazy.

But to sum it all up, fix gens and totems that should be 1st priority

-Maybe without survivor bias treat survivors and killers as the same, after all there people to.

So...how exactly would you effect these perks?

Unpopular opinion but I actually like the new ruin (playing with and going against it).

I'd say removing the great skill check bonus and making toolboxes 5/10/15% less effective would be a healthy buff.

It's funny though because old ruin forced survivors to get better. New ruin forces killers to get better. Regardless, both versions will still be broken before you get a chance to use them.

@Pythonheir they were probably responding to what you said about having to run around in circles like a bot. Freddy can place snares at a loop while the survivor is using it without getting slowed and cutting the amount of use they can get out of it. As for the gen problem, he uses gen-related perks better than most. I wouldn't even bother with ruin, but if you do try protecting it with a snare.

Swapped ruin out for Surge as soon as Demo was released on my Freddy build. It actually works really well on him.