Ok nerf the overperformers but what about the underperformers?
So they want to nerf spirt ( and they do it as they do it with the nurse) but what about killers that have less than 2 kills overall and /or you don't see them very often. Will they buff them soon or will they let them in the dark? Yes i know they want to buff Doc but this Doc we have right now it suppose to be a stronger version.
Note this Doc was when devs try to "break" the game.
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I agree while I don’t think they should nerf anyone I do agree they need to buff weak killers like wraith and trapper
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They did buff Freddy quite a bit with his rework. I think they've got some kind of priority list. Like, they started out with buffing Wraith, then Trapper and Hag, then Legion got released and caused a lot of frustration with the playerbase so they nerfed them, then they buffed/reworked Freddy, then nerfed Nurse and now Spirit is causing a lot of frustration and heated arguments within the community, so I guess that's why she became top priority. I'm sure buff is gonna get buffed, LF as well cause his addons doesn't fit the requirements the newer killers have had, probably end up nerfing Billy a bit with his addon changes, but who knows.
But yeah, I think if a killer is causing a lot of frustrations/DCs/above average kill rate, then that killer becomes priority to be looked at, I'm sure they're gonna be buffing weaker killer afterwards.
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Doctor should not be buffed before Legion or clown, i do want him to be buffed but only because there are a lot of cool ideas they could implement with madness
Spirit def should not be nerfed before others are buffed
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Doc has been here longer.
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A lot of the killers have been changed many times over the course of the game.
Things are changed constantly and they have stated they are working on the Doctor as you said so it seems a mute point to ask if they will look at lower performing killers when you have saw with the Freddy rework and what they have stated that they are.
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It's possible they may be nerfing the strongest killers to give a buff to base killer. I know a lot of people suggested that.
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Devs dont have unlimited time and so they need to ration what they focus on. Its easier (faster and costs less) to nerf 1 killer than to buff+balance 10 killers. I would love it if they buffed the lower rank killers but its just easier to nerf Spirit while slowly working on the lower ranked killers, which is what they are doing now.
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The reason nerfing is easier for the Devs, as it usually means nerfing a killer to the ground.
Nerfing to balance (like actual balance), is just as hard as buffing + balance, as a Dev would have to find values where it would make the killer balanced, but strong as well, they would have to also test values to see if it would make that specific killer weak.
But that's not what the Devs in this game are doing, they just do Nerf or nothing.
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If we go by raw data I'm certain a lot of the killers some like to call "useless at red ranks" already have ~2 kill average performance even at red ranks. Every rank has a wide range of skill and differences in how seriously people take the match, for every jacked up 4man SWF squad there's at least one match of people that got there more or less simply by playing the game enough that season.
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Nerf them aswell.
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buff clown?
i am sad
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"What about the underperformancers"
*every m1 killer has joined the chat*
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Do we have recent data in terms of average kill count for every killer/every rank/every platform?
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I hope so. I would like to see some more variety from you killers. It is very irritating when you see NOTHING but Nurse, Spirit, Freddy, and Legion (for some reason people still play Legion) with the occasional Hag, Trapper, and Ghost Face
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I think you spelled clown and legion wrong...
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No! If u use spirit are noob, if you can't use trapper you are more noob. Everybody complains of that but nobody acknowledges this truth bro.
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This make zero sense. With your logic if you use any exposed perk you are noob if you are use DS, BT you are more noob. You see killer is different than survivors in order to be good with one killer you need to spend time with him and even then you can't say "i will transfer all the experience i have from this killer to another". Look i don't say spirt she is not strong but i say let's buff first the weaker killer and they nerf and aty the same time make something for DC so survivors don't use it as a weapon.
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I'm sure they have some plans for other killers as well. Do you guys realize how much pressure they have right now with all these spirit complaints?
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The thing is they are complaints from both sides and thoes are from the start of the game.
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Curious what they would do with Trapper because as weak as I know he is, overall (and I think covering all ranks) he's one of the best performers according to BHVR stats. I still wouldn't mind him getting some kind of lateral change. It doesn't have to be a buff or nerf, just something a little different.
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He is not doing well because of his Basekit, he is doing well because Killer in Low Ranks is really strong and he is the most iconic Killer.
He is the first Killer in the List and he is the Killer which is displayed when you first see the game. Sure people pick him up first and thats why he is played so much.
If Wraith would be in his Spot, Wraith would have these good results.
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true
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They'd probably give him 2 traps to start but nerf the stuffing out of him by making the traps shine like beacons
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Isn't Clown the least used Killer? That might be a reason as to why he hasn't been looked at since basically his release, popularity.
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I don't know about that. Trapper is stronger than wraith.
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Nerf everyone for consistency. Its only fair, right?
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I don't think Doc is getting a buff, he is getting a rework. He might end up stronger than before, but if they actually listen to us he will lose some really stupid parts of his kit too. Stuff like needing to Snap Out before Mending, or that insta-grab trick he can do in treatment mode. He might not be that strong now, but he does a lot of things that are seriously annoying to deal with.
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Part of that is because those are killers who can't be looped without punishment. Not for a long amount of time. Survivors rely on looping way too much, and not on stealth, which is these killer's weaknesses.
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Clown is too OP, please make him choke on his own gas and die
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First I don't think they will fully rework him because they say that will change the addons. Second thoes stuff keep him some what a threat. Lastly so far the only killer that have a full rework is fredy.
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So many of the weaker killers could be buffed so easily. They gave Demogorgon his pallet break ability addon as base kit in a week so it can't be hard to code. Give Clown faster recovery and more bottles, let Piggy teabag like Ghostface, allow Legion to miss a Feral Frenzy hit, Give Wraith a windstorm base-kit.
These are simple fixes that will benefit survivors too. Survivors probably don't want to face Spirit every match. Tweaking weaker killers gives killer players more options. More options means more variety and a better gaming experience.
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"Some what of a threat" no it makes him complete BS. He is very frustrating to play against because he can do stuff like this.
You should NEVER have to do anything before Mending.
Doc gets free slugs because he can put you into Madness 3 and you can't heal them.
He gets easy hook grabs but just mashing the button.
You constantly rubber band back across vaults from screams or shocks.
None of this is fair or fun to play against. I don't care if it makes him a "threat" it also makes him a serious POS to deal with. The lameness is almost on par with old Legion.
He is getting a rework, I have no doubt. Hopefully they address this stuff AND make his power stronger in the process. He doesn't need to be able to do these things to be a threat.
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First you have to get rid of urgent issues, like Spirits power being outdoing mostly all chase mechanics at once (which should have been done together with Nurse much earlier). After that you can focus on non-urgent issues like buffing the lower tier killers. They actually arent able to do both at the same time due to other ongoing new content, certain named contents being announced to come in future updates or simply by having not enough staff to deal with all the issues at once (which i personally hope is the reaoson, cause there could have been much more little tweaks in the last updates without that much of coding needed to do).
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By nerfing the overperformers the underperformers become more viable.
🙃
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We've done that with Freddy and we'll be giving some love to other killers when their time comes. We can't do everything in one go, there's just not enough time for that. As it stands right now, there isn't a single killer that gets an average of below two kills per game (barring low rank console Nurse, as always).
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The time u guys require to change a killer is too much, at this rate it would take 3-4 years to bring underperformers to mediocre level
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Do you want them to do it fast, or do you want them to do it well? Good, iterative design process takes time. If you rush a change out without really thinking about it, you're much more likely to just make things worse.
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clown trapper wraith killers like these needs some qol changes do they really need 3-4 years?
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LMAO They literally confirmed in their last live stream that they aren't gonna rework Doc like they did with Freddy and it will be just an add-on pass and some tweaks to his base kit.
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You're the only one who's putting a 3-4 year timeframe on it.
They need as much time as it takes to do a good job. I'm a designer - not a game designer, but this is how the design process works no matter what you're designing. Sometimes you come out the gate with a great design, and it works perfectly and everyone loves it. That's awesome when it happens. Most of the time, though, you have to brainstorm a lot, find good ideas, test them, iterate on them, test them some more, until you find something that works. And yeah, that can take a long time.
But personally, I would much rather they take a long time respecting the process and working through the steps patiently, than rush out some changes without giving any thought or care to the process because it's what some people on the forums think they should do.
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Incoming charge system on his shock because all killers need to use the recharge animation now apparently...
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Fast please.
Look how quickly they tweaked Demogorgon to give him a ultra-rare as base. Some of the best changes people suggest are literally just number changes. They could knock-out a Wraith buff in their lunch break.
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Wraith is in a decent place with the changes last year.
Trapper has had a few buffs in that time with setting animation and setting time along with add-on changes to name a few. His time to setup accross the map and can lose his power with sabo is more the issue.
I don't understand why you complain about underperformers while quoting a post from Peanits that stated no killers are getting below two kills on average so technically not underperforming.
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Well yes, if they can do something both fast and well, that's obviously ideal. And though that's not impossible, as I mentioned, it is quite rare. My point was that if it's a choice between doing something fast and doing it well, the latter is almost always the better option.
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If you believe the stats at face-value then you can deduce that Hillbilly and Legion are on a par. They are not. One needs a buff and the other doesn't.
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I really dislike that # Of kills is the metric for killers doing well, as that really doesn’t shell explain HOW. Leatherface eats survivors who are overly altruistic for breakfast, and generally survivors are going to be altruistic if they think there’s a chance. I had a Legion game last night where an injured person bodyblocking me as I walked into the basement with a survivor let me snowball into a quick 4k 5 gen scenario since the 3rd person sandbagged the 4th. Does that game make Legion over-performing? I barely safety pipped that game. A 4 hook total 4K is a totally different story than an 8 hook 0K. I’d argue the first scenario is altruism lemmings getting punished while the second was a super close game and lends itself as a point in that killer’s favor for being fairly balanced.
”All killers average 2ks” is by itself really not a good metric to judge balance by.
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This is true, and this is why we don't balance around stats alone. We do our research first.
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That’s good to hear, and I sincerely believe you. It’s just frustrating when that’s the reality but all we get out of it is the 2k comment, as said by you earlier in the thread.
again, I do believe you, but I’ve not seen anything recently saying anything about killer balance from an official source that didn’t use the 2k is what we aim for as the primary stat.
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Of course you can't as one has a far superior kit and why Legion will be looked at again. My point was changes arent just done just due to them over or underperforming it's what makes them more fun to play and verse.
As I stated above it's one metric and one that has to be considered but not the only reason.
The fact that a survivor is overly altruistic is one aspect that does need to come into play as that playstyle is one which is promoted. Much like many other scenarios each one has to be taken into consideration and why also the do gens and get out asap scenario isn't what they use which many seem to think should be the only balance factor.
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Personally I believe the 2K mark is actually a good goal to strive for, and I honestly do not believe that any killer in the game is so weak that they can't at least get a 2k, which is a draw game, this also equals balance. Glad to know that a dev proved me right on that aspect. The problem with most killer mains is they want a definitive I've won. They want the 4k. 3K is already a win, but that precious 4k though, if they can't get that as the average the killer feels weak to them.
Now complaints about the pipping system...that's a different story and needs looking at tbh. But the actual results of the match is another story. A balance around 2 kills = one more kill, or one more survivor escaping, is a win for one side. So I really, really don't get the killer sides constant complaints about balance being an issue. I've been playing the game for around 3 years now, and play Killer and Survivor both have gotten to red ranks several times. I don't see one side as being stronger than the other. I do see certain killers being vastly stronger than their peers however. Spirit is one of them. She doesn't need to be nerfed into the ground, but some changes certainly would be nice, especially her least fun aspects.
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