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Ok nerf the overperformers but what about the underperformers?

So they want to nerf spirt ( and they do it as they do it with the nurse) but what about killers that have less than 2 kills overall and /or you don't see them very often. Will they buff them soon or will they let them in the dark? Yes i know they want to buff Doc but this Doc we have right now it suppose to be a stronger version.

Note this Doc was when devs try to "break" the game.

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Comments

  • twistedmonkey
    twistedmonkey Member Posts: 4,293

    A lot of the killers have been changed many times over the course of the game.

    Things are changed constantly and they have stated they are working on the Doctor as you said so it seems a mute point to ask if they will look at lower performing killers when you have saw with the Freddy rework and what they have stated that they are.

  • fluffymareep
    fluffymareep Member Posts: 634

    It's possible they may be nerfing the strongest killers to give a buff to base killer. I know a lot of people suggested that.

  • Quol
    Quol Member Posts: 694
    edited November 2019

    Devs dont have unlimited time and so they need to ration what they focus on. Its easier (faster and costs less) to nerf 1 killer than to buff+balance 10 killers. I would love it if they buffed the lower rank killers but its just easier to nerf Spirit while slowly working on the lower ranked killers, which is what they are doing now.

  • oxygen
    oxygen Member Posts: 3,327

    If we go by raw data I'm certain a lot of the killers some like to call "useless at red ranks" already have ~2 kill average performance even at red ranks. Every rank has a wide range of skill and differences in how seriously people take the match, for every jacked up 4man SWF squad there's at least one match of people that got there more or less simply by playing the game enough that season.

  • justarandy
    justarandy Member Posts: 1,711

    Nerf them aswell.

  • Yamaoka
    Yamaoka Member Posts: 4,321

    Do we have recent data in terms of average kill count for every killer/every rank/every platform?

  • Umbrae_pk
    Umbrae_pk Member Posts: 482

    I hope so. I would like to see some more variety from you killers. It is very irritating when you see NOTHING but Nurse, Spirit, Freddy, and Legion (for some reason people still play Legion) with the occasional Hag, Trapper, and Ghost Face

  • dastaeryk
    dastaeryk Member Posts: 40

    No! If u use spirit are noob, if you can't use trapper you are more noob. Everybody complains of that but nobody acknowledges this truth bro.

  • DarkGGhost
    DarkGGhost Member Posts: 1,072

    This make zero sense. With your logic if you use any exposed perk you are noob if you are use DS, BT you are more noob. You see killer is different than survivors in order to be good with one killer you need to spend time with him and even then you can't say "i will transfer all the experience i have from this killer to another". Look i don't say spirt she is not strong but i say let's buff first the weaker killer and they nerf and aty the same time make something for DC so survivors don't use it as a weapon.

  • arslaN
    arslaN Member Posts: 1,936

    I'm sure they have some plans for other killers as well. Do you guys realize how much pressure they have right now with all these spirit complaints?

  • DarkGGhost
    DarkGGhost Member Posts: 1,072

    The thing is they are complaints from both sides and thoes are from the start of the game.

  • steezo_de
    steezo_de Member Posts: 1,213

    Curious what they would do with Trapper because as weak as I know he is, overall (and I think covering all ranks) he's one of the best performers according to BHVR stats. I still wouldn't mind him getting some kind of lateral change. It doesn't have to be a buff or nerf, just something a little different.

  • Aven_Fallen
    Aven_Fallen Member Posts: 16,275

    He is not doing well because of his Basekit, he is doing well because Killer in Low Ranks is really strong and he is the most iconic Killer.

    He is the first Killer in the List and he is the Killer which is displayed when you first see the game. Sure people pick him up first and thats why he is played so much.

    If Wraith would be in his Spot, Wraith would have these good results.

  • terumisan
    terumisan Member Posts: 1,293

    They'd probably give him 2 traps to start but nerf the stuffing out of him by making the traps shine like beacons

  • GodDamn_Angela
    GodDamn_Angela Member Posts: 2,213

    Isn't Clown the least used Killer? That might be a reason as to why he hasn't been looked at since basically his release, popularity.

  • steezo_de
    steezo_de Member Posts: 1,213

    I don't know about that. Trapper is stronger than wraith.

  • se05239
    se05239 Member Posts: 3,919

    Nerf everyone for consistency. Its only fair, right?

  • thesuicidefox
    thesuicidefox Member Posts: 8,223

    I don't think Doc is getting a buff, he is getting a rework. He might end up stronger than before, but if they actually listen to us he will lose some really stupid parts of his kit too. Stuff like needing to Snap Out before Mending, or that insta-grab trick he can do in treatment mode. He might not be that strong now, but he does a lot of things that are seriously annoying to deal with.

  • Raven014
    Raven014 Member Posts: 4,188

    Part of that is because those are killers who can't be looped without punishment. Not for a long amount of time. Survivors rely on looping way too much, and not on stealth, which is these killer's weaknesses.

  • SilentSpectre
    SilentSpectre Member Posts: 830

    Clown is too OP, please make him choke on his own gas and die

  • DarkGGhost
    DarkGGhost Member Posts: 1,072

    First I don't think they will fully rework him because they say that will change the addons. Second thoes stuff keep him some what a threat. Lastly so far the only killer that have a full rework is fredy.

  • JawsIsTheNextKiller
    JawsIsTheNextKiller Member Posts: 3,367

    So many of the weaker killers could be buffed so easily. They gave Demogorgon his pallet break ability addon as base kit in a week so it can't be hard to code. Give Clown faster recovery and more bottles, let Piggy teabag like Ghostface, allow Legion to miss a Feral Frenzy hit, Give Wraith a windstorm base-kit.

    These are simple fixes that will benefit survivors too. Survivors probably don't want to face Spirit every match. Tweaking weaker killers gives killer players more options. More options means more variety and a better gaming experience.

  • thesuicidefox
    thesuicidefox Member Posts: 8,223


    "Some what of a threat" no it makes him complete BS. He is very frustrating to play against because he can do stuff like this.

    You should NEVER have to do anything before Mending.

    Doc gets free slugs because he can put you into Madness 3 and you can't heal them.

    He gets easy hook grabs but just mashing the button.

    You constantly rubber band back across vaults from screams or shocks.

    None of this is fair or fun to play against. I don't care if it makes him a "threat" it also makes him a serious POS to deal with. The lameness is almost on par with old Legion.

    He is getting a rework, I have no doubt. Hopefully they address this stuff AND make his power stronger in the process. He doesn't need to be able to do these things to be a threat.

  • LetsPlayTogether
    LetsPlayTogether Member Posts: 2,117

    First you have to get rid of urgent issues, like Spirits power being outdoing mostly all chase mechanics at once (which should have been done together with Nurse much earlier). After that you can focus on non-urgent issues like buffing the lower tier killers. They actually arent able to do both at the same time due to other ongoing new content, certain named contents being announced to come in future updates or simply by having not enough staff to deal with all the issues at once (which i personally hope is the reaoson, cause there could have been much more little tweaks in the last updates without that much of coding needed to do).

  • Drazen
    Drazen Member Posts: 400

    clown trapper wraith killers like these needs some qol changes do they really need 3-4 years?

  • Marcus
    Marcus Member Posts: 2,047

    LMAO They literally confirmed in their last live stream that they aren't gonna rework Doc like they did with Freddy and it will be just an add-on pass and some tweaks to his base kit.

  • Fibijean
    Fibijean Member Posts: 8,342

    You're the only one who's putting a 3-4 year timeframe on it.

    They need as much time as it takes to do a good job. I'm a designer - not a game designer, but this is how the design process works no matter what you're designing. Sometimes you come out the gate with a great design, and it works perfectly and everyone loves it. That's awesome when it happens. Most of the time, though, you have to brainstorm a lot, find good ideas, test them, iterate on them, test them some more, until you find something that works. And yeah, that can take a long time.

    But personally, I would much rather they take a long time respecting the process and working through the steps patiently, than rush out some changes without giving any thought or care to the process because it's what some people on the forums think they should do.

  • LordRegal
    LordRegal Member Posts: 1,549

    Incoming charge system on his shock because all killers need to use the recharge animation now apparently...

  • JawsIsTheNextKiller
    JawsIsTheNextKiller Member Posts: 3,367

    Fast please.

    Look how quickly they tweaked Demogorgon to give him a ultra-rare as base. Some of the best changes people suggest are literally just number changes. They could knock-out a Wraith buff in their lunch break.

  • twistedmonkey
    twistedmonkey Member Posts: 4,293

    Wraith is in a decent place with the changes last year.

    Trapper has had a few buffs in that time with setting animation and setting time along with add-on changes to name a few. His time to setup accross the map and can lose his power with sabo is more the issue.

    I don't understand why you complain about underperformers while quoting a post from Peanits that stated no killers are getting below two kills on average so technically not underperforming.

  • Fibijean
    Fibijean Member Posts: 8,342

    Well yes, if they can do something both fast and well, that's obviously ideal. And though that's not impossible, as I mentioned, it is quite rare. My point was that if it's a choice between doing something fast and doing it well, the latter is almost always the better option.

  • JawsIsTheNextKiller
    JawsIsTheNextKiller Member Posts: 3,367

    If you believe the stats at face-value then you can deduce that Hillbilly and Legion are on a par. They are not. One needs a buff and the other doesn't.

  • LordRegal
    LordRegal Member Posts: 1,549

    I really dislike that # Of kills is the metric for killers doing well, as that really doesn’t shell explain HOW. Leatherface eats survivors who are overly altruistic for breakfast, and generally survivors are going to be altruistic if they think there’s a chance. I had a Legion game last night where an injured person bodyblocking me as I walked into the basement with a survivor let me snowball into a quick 4k 5 gen scenario since the 3rd person sandbagged the 4th. Does that game make Legion over-performing? I barely safety pipped that game. A 4 hook total 4K is a totally different story than an 8 hook 0K. I’d argue the first scenario is altruism lemmings getting punished while the second was a super close game and lends itself as a point in that killer’s favor for being fairly balanced.

    ”All killers average 2ks” is by itself really not a good metric to judge balance by.

  • LordRegal
    LordRegal Member Posts: 1,549

    That’s good to hear, and I sincerely believe you. It’s just frustrating when that’s the reality but all we get out of it is the 2k comment, as said by you earlier in the thread.

    again, I do believe you, but I’ve not seen anything recently saying anything about killer balance from an official source that didn’t use the 2k is what we aim for as the primary stat.

  • twistedmonkey
    twistedmonkey Member Posts: 4,293
    edited November 2019

    Of course you can't as one has a far superior kit and why Legion will be looked at again. My point was changes arent just done just due to them over or underperforming it's what makes them more fun to play and verse.

    As I stated above it's one metric and one that has to be considered but not the only reason.

    The fact that a survivor is overly altruistic is one aspect that does need to come into play as that playstyle is one which is promoted. Much like many other scenarios each one has to be taken into consideration and why also the do gens and get out asap scenario isn't what they use which many seem to think should be the only balance factor.

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