Recognize the double standard. It's getting annoying
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Cleansing hex totems, sabo hooks and searching chests are just synonyms for "doing nothing". Alturism makes sense of course, but only if that is available.
Its a very effective strategy to hook a survivor and go for anybody who is seen on BBQ or any other tracking perk, so the killer has always the option to play that way.
The point is, no matter if he is tunneling or camping or using a different strategy like the one i mentioned, he is using a strategy to win (and that is fine!). But if the survivors are doing anything else then gens, they are just doing nothing, thats it. This is no strategy, this is just beeing (semi) afk.
So in my opinion it is legit when a survivor thinks the killer was tunneling, since thats the way the killer has chosen to play. But it makes not really any sense when the killer is blaming the survivors to genrush, because there is no other way they can play.
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A perk that punishes gen rushing is NOED, not Ruin. Ruin just barely slowed it down (talking about high ranks).
Anyway it's useless talking about secondary objectives like totems because I've seen a lot of matches where the killer complained about being "gen rushed" and still there wasn't a single totem standing or a chest closed at the end of the match.
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Then tunneling has no toxic nature behind it, as they are also just "doing their objective."
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If there's no totems or chests left then the survivors gave the killer enough time to do their job and it is then their fault. If they complain at that point, they're using the term wrong and shouldn't be complaining.
Just like a survivor shouldn't complain about being tunneled if they went for a save or started doing a gen immediately after being unhooked. You are given the opportunity to run. If you choose not to, you accept the consequences.
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Appyling pressure can take many different forms, injuring, being near objectives that have multiple survivors, slugging. You don’t need to be a killer with good mobility to apply pressure. The only killer I find very lacking is Bubba, everyone else can play the game, you just have to know what you’re doing, and not have awful rng.
Here’s the big takeaway, old ruin did nothing to stop good/experienced players. It was really just a win harder perk, that only assisted vs bad players or on really good totem spawns and even then good players will power through it. It was a bandaid to a larger problem, and it’s overuse lend to the change.
The rhetoric that x change will only lead to y killer being played is overused as well. The game isn’t going to die from one change, all killers aren’t leaving because of one change. The forums are just filled with drama queens who want their easy mode perks left alone, and cry when they’re taken away. Both survivors and killers do this, killers just like to whine it’s too hard to win, when in reality, it’s not.
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I like your outlook on this, but from my understanding this game was originally meant to be more of a survivor based horror experience, or at least I would think it would be better off that way. Four survivors put in an alien place (meaning not ordinary... Not space themed, we don't need martians lol) and it should be dense, dark, gritty and even unnerving. The killer is meant to be a threat, yes... But this "School bully" is just either too OP, too slow, or the player is either too defensive or too offensive... Truly the problem isn't in the community as much as it is the game, the characters and the design.
When I first played this game a long time ago, there was a dense fog that made it pretty hard for survivors to see across the map. It set a mood alright, "there is some freak of nature out there with a machete and you need to avoid him, but get out with the others" it instilled a fear that anything could be lurking in the fog and your every step had to be cautious. Now it's just a hulking idiot who chases one person while three others race around generator to generator with toolboxes and completing them like it was an Olympic sport.
This game should be something where the killer starts off as a threat and the survivors are very lost. The killer of course isn't all too fast (but isn't too slow either) and basically hunts the players slowly through the fog and whatever else they can use to kill everyone's vision (killer included.) Generators should become much harder to skill check as you repair them with a system where instead of it removing some progress and continuing... It instead damages it like the killer can for a margin of time to encourage the player to flee to a new target. As for hooks, they should be reduced to a very small amount spread all about the map and the killers grip intensified so he/she can carry them farther to each other hook (Assuming struggle isn't a problem and they aren't too far away.)
As most horror movies go... The survivors are clueless, they should be like that in game. They can't really fight back much so the killer should be slowed regardless who it is... Even I myself, a nurse main would be ok with a slight change to the blink so she can move a little faster on foot or something. The problem is that the developers have strayed away from what made this game so unique at the start... What we had was a horror game that had some flaws and they wanted to do what I call "pull a Blizzard." They started changing things like crazy based off some reviews and ideals they thought worked... Never really reaching out to the community to see how EVERYONE felt about things...
So what makes us different then them who we all influence? We are the players... We're meant to be the voice of our own reason, if you think the killer is too much as a survivor... Why not try to reason with our fellow gamers to make such compromises to allow change together instead of pointing a finger at the opposition and crying out in heresy?
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No tunneling doesnt equalize with fastening your objective. It just means youre going to take out one survivor who cant do his objective. Gen rushing is just doing their objectives, while it doesnt hinders the killer on doing his objective, cause naturally Killer is in a chase while gens are getting done. the chase is the prerequisite for downing, which is the prerequisite for hooking, which is the prerequisite for killing. So killers can do their obctives, so gen rush isnt real, while survivors cant do their objective, so tunneling is real. No discussion worth here.
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Do you not play survivor? The queue times have dramatically increased and I almost exclusively face rank 8 and below, rarely seeing any killer in red ranks. I sure as hell have quit, I don't enjoy having to be that stressed just to get one or two kills if I'm lucky.
Whether or not the survivor is injured means nothing to optimal survivors. They will work through the injure and depending on their perks they may go faster. So having everyone injured means nothing if you can't get to them, hence why only high mobility killers can win against slightly optimal teams. Fully optimal teams are impossible now, as gens will go even faster with the constant great skillckecks.
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I can't take you seriously if you think "fastening" is a word.
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No, the killer can't do their objective of the generators go too fast. The time of the generators being repaired sets the time limit for the killer to do their job. If the generators go too fast, there isn't enough time to do your job.
You've also got the 1v1 mentality bad. Understandable since you don't even know what words are.
There are 4 survivors and one killer. If a survivor is being tunneled, the other 3 can still do the objective. Therefore, following your "logic", or lack thereof, tunneling wouldn't exist either.
So which is it?
Recognize the double standard.
Post edited by Rizzo on0 -
I think you have to really play both roles almost equally in order to understand both sides. You can usually tell which players strictly play one role or the other by their game play and end game chat/msgs. I don't know if they have release stats but I suspect the high majority either play killer or survivor and therefore they only see things from one pov.
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I encourage everyone to play both sides, if no other reason than to understand your enemy. When I started I exclusively played survivor, refusing to play the "dirty killers" as I actually believed. And I struggled as a survivor. Even during the times of blendette and actual infinites. During the Dark Ages of DBD I still struggled as a survivor, until I started playing killer. I understood better their mobility, their vision, their goals...and I applied it to survivor, and started doing amazing. The result was me reaching rank 2 survivor and rank 3 killer on a regular basis.
The awesome thing about it is you also get a feel for the struggles of both sides. Being tunneled sucks ass, especially when your teammates are no help. But so does being genrushed. Both give the same feeling of helplessness and frustration.
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The devs have a double standard too. New survivors need to be coddled which is why ruin got nerfed, but new killers is fine and who care how it unbalances the game at higher ranks and more experienced players?
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If survivors doesn't "genrush" (or straight up just finish gens) what else are they supposed to do?
break totems and search chests? boop the snoot? tbag the killer to get on chases?
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Exactly this, saving it for faster rebuttals. The "apply pressure" crowd are as deluded as climate deniers in their arguments that ignore the factors causing the problem in the first place
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The pressure argument sounds just like the "why don't poor people just buy more money?" meme
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You can read, but you cant comprehend.
Bravo. You got 50% on your english test.
Context is important, hon.
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@Peanits will you clarify bodyblocking bans to this..... child and/or close the thread? It's basically them arguing with everyone because they refuse to use context instead of verbatim text unless "a dev/mod" says it's TRUE. Its past off topic now.
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Bodyblocking is not bannable, period. It doesn't matter if it's a survivor blocking a killer from getting a hook or a killer blocking a window or a pallet to get a hit. It's all fair game.
What is bannable is holding the game hostage. This can include a killer blocking a survivor in a corner so they cannot leave. It would apply if a survivor managed to block a killer in a corner as well, although that's fairly rare since the killer can hit the survivor.
Short version, bodyblocking is not bannable, holding the game hostage is.
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Thank you.
@YaBoiFreddy please read Peanits response.
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cant survivors just hide the whole game isnt that kinda classified as the same thing? since they can just remain hidden from the killer for however long they want especially if you kill 2 of them and the other 2 just hide to waste your time.
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It is, yes. Blocking someone in a corner is just one of the ways it can happen.
EDIT: Specifically if they're making no attempt to finish generators, and the hatch isn't available (so you can't close it and start the EGC).
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okay was just making sure since some people say "well you can still find the survivors even if they are hiding the whole time and not doing generators so its not holding the game hostage" just wanted to make sure. Edit:(My bad dont know why i said still doing generators the arguement is if they are hiding and not doing gens you can still find them on the map its just hard so its not holding the game hostage)
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My bad messed up when i posted i edited it now to go more into detail. Sure theres perks like whispers that prevent it but not every killer runs whispers. I just had this game where i killed the 1st two of the survivors and the others just hid for about like 5 minutes so i was walking around trying to find them and finally found one downed him and hooked him and the last got the hatch but i didnt care finally the game was over. Such a annoying thing to do.
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Tunneling is not and never was efficiency, though.
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Wasn't really referring to that. There have, historically, been some cases where survivors have been able to block a killer in a set spot. For example, you used to be able to stand beneath the hole in the Grim Pantry. If a killer dropped down on top of you, they would get stuck on top of you without being able to hit you.
Stuff like that is very rare, but has happened from time to time.
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you’re right and all, but no offense
I don't remember asking
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Then why come here. If you plan on adding nothing to the conversation why comment at all.
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to be fair there wasnt much of a conversation type post
i wanted to know what you meant by double standard so i looked
i saw your post and you explained everything and said everything to say so i was like “sweet”
all im saying is the post makes sense but something like un-needed? Just because something like this is obvious i dont think it should be explained is all.
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The game should always be balanced for high rank, period. Players will eventually get better, and your veteran playerbase are the ones who spend the most money on your game. Players will get better and as they do they will start to see more normalized gameplay. New players will experience the horror that is intended for the game. As they begin to lose that fear they will better understand the intricacies of the game, and get better. Literally the less scared they get the better at the game they get. And naturally, playing a horror game over and over again will reduce how scary it is. So as it becomes less fun because of horror, it becomes more fun because of balanced gameplay. Therefore creating the perfect environment for all tiers of gameplay
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If killers don't "tunnel" (or straight up just kill survivors) what else are they supposed to do?
Ignore injured survivors and go for fresh survivor? Meme with the survivors? Let them get to loops so they can chase?
Genrushing is the same as tunneling. Killers choose to play inefficiently in order to allow the survivors to play, and survivors can do the same. You can start the game by searching a chest instead of hopping on a gen. Break totems as you find them and search them out to prevent Noed. Sabotage hooks in the area in case a friend goes down in the area. If you've broken all totems and searched all chests then you've given him enough time and at that point just finish gens and leave. If the killer starts tunneling, for the sake of the guy being tunneled, gen rush the killer. He's given up his right to not be gen rushed by tunneling. Just like if the survivors start gen rushing, the killer can start tunneling, since the survivors gave up their right to not be tunneled by gen rushing
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In other words "corner locking" is bannable. 🙂
A Dwight just got hatch. 🥳
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Can everyone stop being a snowflake and just play the game. People will play the game how they want to and nothing we say will change that, unless Bhvr decides to change something to address it. Like honestly. All I see on these forums are people complaining about something.
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Yes, it is. Especially when there's no DS, or when it's out of the way. Imagine how often killers would tunnel if there was no DS or borrowed or anything. It's the same thing with gen rushing. There's hardly anything left to stop it anymore so it's capable of happening any game, if the survivors choose to. Just like if there was no DS or borrowed or anything, tunneling could happen any game if the killer chose to.
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Then leave the forums. If you're annoyed by it, stop immersing yourself in it. The forums are (supposed to be) for voicing your concerns and opinions with the came for developers and players to see so you can potentially change something. (this would be the case if developers didn't completely ignore one side of their playerbase)
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You'd be surprised how not obvious this is. I see the argument "gen rushing doesn't exist" or "gen rushing isn't toxic" all the damn time. It's obvious to people who play both sides (and I mean actually play to understand, not play once just to say they do) but people who only play one or refuse to see arguments from the other side will make stupid arguments like that. Just like I see occasionally see tge argument that tunneling isn't toxic. They're one and the same, and whether you think it's toxic or not is on you but you can't think one is and the other isn't. That's the double standard I'm tired of, and the one I'm starting to see from DEVELOPERS which is the worst part. Seriously, I've seen better devs from EA for ######### sake. These guys are pathetic.
Well, the balance team is. I love the people responsible for maps and killer aesthetic, backstory, writing, stuff like that. The creative team of this game are talented, phenomenal people who I hope keep up their good work.
I honestly hope the entire balance team is fired and replaced because this ######### is ridiculous.
Edit: I also apologize for the rude first comment, I thought you were trying to argue that it was unnecessary because they're different. Agreeing obviously needs no evidence for backup, but disagreements do, hence why I was upset with a perceived disagreement with no evidence to support anything.
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Thanks for apologizing:))
I agree with you, of course, and hope even though its technically what we're supposed to be doing that its somehow looked into to make it seem more fair.= and sportsmanlike.
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Right, except that is not efficiently if you at all understand what is happening in a given game.
To claim it's efficient is rank 20 logic, at best. If you tunnel one person, 3 people get to do gens for free. It is a losing 'strategy' (a word I'd use loosely tbh) against survivors with half a brain.
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The faster you eliminate survivors, the faster you snowball. When you eliminate one quickly, you cut the team efficiency down by 25%.
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Not really since the moment you catch someone if bt and ds didn't exist you'd immediately throw them back on the hook and they are out the game assuming sb and we'll make it isn't in play
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The object of a survivors game is to get the gens done as fast as possible and escape. That is there only goal, they are slow, vulnerable, and defenseless. That is the core of the game. What are you suggesting they do instead of completing Gens?
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Stand still to be killed by entitled people who want easy games and refuse to try and improve on their own skills. :)
This entire thread is just a circlejerk of that kind of person. Heck, a lot of the forum is.
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Open chests and break totems you walk by. Find and heal the injured teammate, or find the one being chased and swap in for them. Sabotage hooks around a generator in case a friend goes down. You can be productive while not doing generators, and giving the killer the chance to actually play the game. If you've done all that and the killer still hasn't killed anyone then that's their fault not yours, just like if you don't tunnel anyone and still 4 man 5 gen them that's their fault not yours.
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Oh but the threads about killers who are "toxic" because they dared to try and win aren't?
Recognize the double standard. It's getting annoying.
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I wasn't gen rushing I was being efficient. The only way tunneling is efficient is if some halfwit rushed a hook save. I'm running spine chill and kindred to avoid being the victim of killer "efficiency" some others run ds but I have found that to be sub-par in comparison. I also run detectives hunch and inner strength so I am fighting the noed game as well as any anti heal build.
Tldr tunneling and gen rushing are not similar.
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repairing generators when you don't have anything else to do is not gen rushing, even if you use toolboxes, BNP, Prove Thyself or whatever.
repairing generators while avoiding to cleanse totems, being injured even when able to be healed, a survivor is on the hook and it's going to reach second stage, the killer is coming to you and is presumably going to down you.. that's gen rushing.
At the same time:
downing and hooking the same survivor multiple times in a short amount of time, maybe even eating its DS, that's not tunnelling.
downing and hooking the same survivor multiple times by purposefully avoiding other survivors that are more out-positioned / injured / pushing a generator, even when your chase is not immediately going to end (maybe because a good loop the survivor is going to reach soon) and/or camping a slugged / hid in a locker survivor to wait for its DS to run out, that's tunnelling.
So yeah, both gen rushing and tunnelling are two sides of the same coin: doing something (repairing generators / chasing a survivor) at the expense of the rest.
..and that's now 4 times I explain it lol.
EDIT: in any case, both gen rushing and tunnelling are legit strategies in specific situations. A killer is camping? No point in cleansing totems / healing / trying to rescue if you don't have BT and the killer has insta down: rush generators! You're the killer and generators are running too quickly, but you have a survivor dead on hook? They rescue bomb someone and you are not in a hurry to go elsewhere? Tunnel.
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'dared to try and win' LMAO
I didn't say it's only killer mains that are an issue here. Just that that's what this is, and that it's prevalent on the forum. There are definitely plenty of entitled survivor mains here too.
Tbh, both of these groups are prevalent within the game as a whole. It's awful.
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They are exactly the same. The only way they wouldn't be is with the double standard you refuse to acknowledge.
If "gen rushing" is just "being efficient" then so is tunneling. You're trying to do your objective as fast as you can without any regard to what the other player feels. Tunneling is, without question, the most efficient way to kill survivors. The quicker you kill off survivors, the quicker you put the game in your advantage. With 4 survivors, you can have one on hook, one in chase, and one going for the save with generators still getting done. With 3 survivors, you can have one on hook, one in chase, and one going for the save or one doing generators. You can't have both. This means either generators don't get done, or survivors die on hooks. Either way, you gain enormous pressure and it slows the game down to a somewhat manageable level. Once two are dead you've essentially won the game if they haven't done 3 generators, which would've been hard to do in the time it takes to tunnel two survivors dead with old ruin. With new useless ruin it'll be done easily.
So if they're at all different, which they aren't, the only difference would be that gen rushing is worse than tunneling.
Recognize the double standard.
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