Decisive Strike causing exhaustion.
DS should be an exhaustion perk. Since it's a one time use, it should override the exhausted status effect like adrenaline, with the traditional 60/50/40 seconds of exhaustion. But what if the time you're exhausted for is the amount of time that has been taken off the timer? If a killer downs you right after you got unhooked and picks you back up with 55 seconds left on your timer, you would only be exhausted for 5 seconds after hitting the skill check. But if the killer picks you up with 2 seconds left on the DS timer, you'd be exhausted for 58 seconds. This would ensure that ds can counter actual tunneling, camping or downing someone right after being unhooked, and give a penalty only when the timer is mostly depleted. The special exhaustion time doesn't have to be included and the exhaustion time could stay the same as all other exhaustion perks, it was just a small idea and not the main point of my argument.
Comments
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It's a situational perk.
It only activates and used if the killer lets the survivor.
This is a bad idea, please stop this DS witch hunt and putting limitations on DS.
YOU as the killer CHOOSE to have it used. Only you can prevent it.
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By slugging. Yeah, thats a fun choice for killer. Force them to slug. Or eat it then use the Head On trick. Thats fun as well. It's not like that perk rewards survivors for being dumb or for being too much of a jerk in the killers face. Especially when every game has 4 of them. Yeah, real fun. 60 seconds for a survivor isn't the same for killer. Killers have to keep track of so many different things, they may lose track of how long a survivor is slugged and take it even though they clearly didn't tunnel. It's an anti-tunnel perk after all.
Besides, if someone wants to tunnel, it won't stop them. They'll just take the stun and continue after you.
It really needs a bit of a rework. Not a full one, because it has a good base to it, but just some tweaks to make it a lot less versatile: Like not healing to full health, working on a gen, or getting in a locker just to be able to use the perk. To compensate for this, it can be used both times after unhook, so that way it really is an anti-tunnel perk.
And if another person gets hooked before you, the perk deactivates.
That would be a balanced perk. Survivors would get to use it more as long as the killer is actually tunneling them, but they have to stay vulnerable and not have it as a free 60 second period to do whatever they want.
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DS is not necessary, ever, you don't need it to help you solo, you don't need to use it at all.
I don't understand this at all, I seem to play fine without it, so clearly a huge gap exists between people who use DS and me being honorable to the killer, no matter how they play
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Pointless. If it’s as all survivors claim “anti-tunneling” perk fine: as soon as someone other than the person getting unhooked gets hit, all DS are turned off. (Let’s see how they do mental back flips to justify it now)
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It should deactivate when another survivor is recognized as being chased.
And when the survivor does any action like locker or gen
Because its anti tunnel and all of those things means it's not tunneling anymore
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DS is brought for two reason that you as a player cant control in solo queue: The killer is tunneling or your team is farming. No matter how good a survivor you are you cant control if you get tunneled off the hook or farmed in front of the killer.
I've had many games where killers say in endgame chat "no DS = ez tunnel". At least on DS is necessay in all games...
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Do you know how many times a killer stops his chase with another survivors and mindlessly like a zombie goes back to the hooked survivor just to chase him/her again?
Many, MANY times.
Your idea is flawed.
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Not a single thing you said refuted the need for ds is as it’s intended (anti tunneling) to not be turned off if the person who is supposed to be tunneled isn’t tunneled
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Your argument makes absolutely no sense. Head on is also a situational perk, yet it causes exhaustion. Same as DH, BL.... what does being situational has anything to do with it being an exhaustion perk or not?
DS is still strong, and should be nerfed, nobody is witch hunting, people are just asking for balance, DS is a second chance perk, a reward for you doing nothing, some people even GO TO THE KILLER to execute their DS, it's complete BS sometimes.
It's also not something that as killer you "CHOOSE" to have it used, sometimes it's the last gen and you want to apply pressure only to find out the guy you're downing has been unhooked 50 seconds ago. Or the gates are opened because you were a cool killer and didn't tunnel anyone on the whole match, people took advantage of that and gen rushed the hell out of you and you want to grasp one last kill only to find out that you can't because, as you didn't tunnel anyone, all assh0les survivors still have DS available, so there's NO OTHER OPTION for you but to let them go.
Yeah, sure... DS is completely balanced, "stop witchhunting"
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You want balance?
Here you go.
- Slug.
- Don't tunnel.
- Know you you hooked last.
- Know if anyone is acting BRAVE, slug them.
- Don't open lockers then come to the forums and complain about it.
- Wait the 40-30 seconds they have left.
There is an obvious Witch Hunt going on and baby killer mains want DS nerfed.
There are many counters to Decisive Strike, this argument is getting as old as people not knowing how to counter BBQ and coming to the forums to complain about it.
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unfortunately for the argument you are making all counters got nerfed: dribbling, enduring, the fact that non-obsession had to struggle to process the skill check. Next?
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- Slugging is boring and it's a risk to lose all the pressure you have.
- tunnel is not a bad word, if you tunnel a guy to death, ok, but if people unhook in your face, IT'S THEIR FAULT!, they should be punished for that misplay, not me.
- sure, I'll have a bunch of timers to check who have been unhooked where, when, etc...
- Same as 1.
- ???
Only baby survivors would call this a witch hunt, it's clear that DS should be reworked, it was a stupid idea from the beginning and it hasn't been fixed yet. Don't tell me, you're a survivor main, right? I mean, look at your name.
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Except for the counters I just mentioned above.
Luckily for me. I use DS 90% of my games, as killer I never let 1 hit me maybe the occasional slip up, once a week.
Killers need to stop being so desperate and tunneling the barely unhooked survivor.
Luckily for me, DS is a survivor perk, and it will not be changed any time soon.
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They should just make it deactivate if you do something else. A Gen, heal a survivor, unhook someone, a totem etc. If you are able to do an objective, then you aren't getting tunneled, you are putting yourself back into the game at that point.
Everyone agrees it should be good as an anti-tunnel perk, but it should not give you complete immunity. For example, if you run both DS and unbreakable and you get unhooked you literally become immune for 60 seconds to do w/e you want. That's almost a whole gen where the killer literally has no counterplay.
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So your argument was pointless. You countered nothing I said. Please go play survivor with ds 90% maybe at a later date you will have some constructive ideas on the issue
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That's the point.
There is no issue, killer mains are trying to make it an issue but the fact is.
Only killers let themselves get DS'ed. What bothers me is that they blame the survivors for using such a perk. You don't get a free "feel sorry for me" card when you get DS'sed.
It's YOUR fault.
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Look at his name. He's a survivor main, he'll never understand what you're explaining.
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I play killer all the time, I'm playing killer now.
I'm just not the whiny, complaining type of killer.
I don't get DS'ed.
It's as simple as this.
You get DS'ed? It's YOUR fault.
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You're clueless about this game.
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Only baby killers complain about DS. I just eat it.
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Hey, at least I'm not complaining about situations I put myself in.
I don't make forum posts when I have a bad match.
Good luck getting it nerfed.
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A survivor main that uses DS 90% of the time is explaining why it shouldn't be nerfed.
These Megheads...
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Yup and killer mains who get DS'ed 90% of the time telling the community what's wrong with the perk.
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Sure Mr. Survivor Main Meghead, DS is fine...
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I started leveling up Laurie to get DS, and I've been playing as her. Every time I've used it, I continue to get tunneled, so it gives me at least like... Idk 30 seconds more time before I'm downed, picked up, and hooked again. (I'm not a good looper.) Although DS is an anti-tunneling perk, it also seems to instigate tunneling bc the killer gets mad they were DS'd. Making it an exhaustion perk would take away any other possibe exhaustion perks that can prevent the post-anti-tunneling-tunneling part of the chase.
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Lol. Playing one side or another doesn't mean you can't talk. That's subjetive if the point that an user is making has sense. I reach red ranks as killer where 2,3 or 4 survs get DS and let me tell you, unless we are talking about endgame when you have zero chances to counter it and another situational times, it's perfectly balanced. If you go to the unhooked zone you can't say "but I wasn't tunneling" because you went to where the unhooked is for a reason (yes, to tunnel), and if you by any chance spot him again in your normal playstyle you can slug them for the remaining 20 seconds of DS, but I read it a lot "They jump into a locker. Should I waste 60 seconds?". Let me tell you, the perk works for 60 seconds and the timer starts when you're unhooked, if you need to wait almost a whole minute, it's because you are indeed tunneling. If you're not, then the perk has no uses.
I never had an issue with it except in the endgame collapse.
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DS is fine as it is. I don’t understand how it’s so hard to slug (something 90% of killers already do) to counter it.
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The things you stated are very situational. As a Killer going to the unhooked surv area doesn't mean to tunnel, it means I haven't found a surv but I got a notification so something is better than searching for nothing. Then the person who unhooked who could very well take the aggro so that the other surv isn't farmed. And the locker part can be both.
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Because survivors will do a gen and then hop into a locker when killer gets close. Then you are forced to eat the DS or let them do the gen. meanwhile they get a 5 second head start on a chase that could last another 30 seconds. Pair it with unbreakable and you can't even slug.
DS should be cancelled if you perform an action like doing a gen. If you go and do a gen, or heal another survivor, or do a totem, then you aren't getting tunneled.
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If you’re approaching a previously hooked person and they hop into a locker, they no longer have 60 seconds. The problem is you’re seeing these through the eyes of DS being Strictly an anti tunnel perk and it isn’t.
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I play survivor and i use DS+UB combo all the time, as soon as i get hooked i get a free gen almost every game, or if they try to come after me i have DS, or if they leave me on the ground, i use unbreakable. During which time my team does a gen if they pop my DS and i send them on another chase. or if i use UB, then i just finish the gen i was doing.
Its meant to be anti-tunnel, the devs literally stated that, and also agree with my statement that if you start doing a gen then you are no longer being tunneled and are putting yourself back into the game by choice.
And yeah, they still have 60 seconds. if they hop into a locker and i leave them, then they just hop out and keep doing the gen they were doing. If i dance around with them and try to catch them not in the locker, during that time 3 gens pop because DS lasts 60 seconds and a gen takes 80.
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Ok. Killers will just adapt to hit the person umhooking, then run after the recently unhooked, cancelling DS.
If a killer REALLY wants to tunnel someone, they won't care in the slightest that you hit them with DS anyway.
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Big lol. Hope you're joking bud. I get tunneled off the hook 5 times out of 10. DS is my primary perk. I am not going into a game for tunneled off the hook because a lot of killers are campers and tunnelers. You want easy down? Fine. Eat the DS and cry later on these forums and ask for a rework.
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Gen grab is avoidable just like vault grab is..... You just lunge. Locker DS needs addressing, yes. That isn't avoidable aside from going away. That specific one is used in situations that aren't tunneling most of the time.
Working on a gen disabling DS would be fine too out of principle but frankly it's avoidable for the reason I just said: Lunge.
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Devs never said it is strictly an anti tunnel perk. It serves that purpose but even they themselves said that should the killer encounter the survivor previously hooked that it would come down to a strat at that point. So no, it isn't ONLY an anti tunnel perk, because if it was it would completely render the killer unable to tunnel, which they can even after the stun.
Also, if the survivor who you happen to find AGAIN (after you didnt 'tunnel'), they no longer have 60 seconds.... the timer starts right after they are unhooked, not when you find them again.
As for "3 gens pop" that is what happens when you tunnel. Gens pop.
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As far as the changing exhaustion times go, it would really make a difference after a few seconds. You aren't realistically going to be walking for ten seconds in the middle of a chase if they are actually tunneling you, and if you are, you're probably wasting pallets left and right. The difference between 10 seconds and 50 seconds would be negligible at that point. Beyond that, if it did make a difference, it would likely just end with the survivor running straight into the killer to get the shortest exhaustion possible.
Given the requirements to activate in the first place, though, exhaustion would likely be overkill. It wouldn't affect someone like me who doesn't run exhaustion perks to begin with (barring Head On from time to time), and it would be a pretty significant downside to a perk you already don't get to use very often.
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I'm not joking, hell because of the killer gameplay right now I am a survivor main
I almost never get tunneled and when I do I let the killer kill me and I go onto my next game, I don't need to rely on crutch perks because that makes the game boring as hell
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This 100%. People who play both sides regularly find far less to cry about in the game.
Making up bullshit reasons to deactivate DS or make it so it can't be used in conjunction with an exhaustion perk in order to stop you tunnelling someone is stupid.
I am sick of hearing the same "I want my chase to be over quickly when I tunnel someone so FS needs x, y and a otherwise I will quit playing because you favour the survivors. A 5 second head start ruins the killers game"
Stop camping, stop tunnelling and all those perks you moan about will not be used as much anyway. Killer mains push survivors to use BT and DS by playing scummy.
In relation to the start of the topic where someone says if you chase another person after the unhook then it should deactivate, so the killer stays a few seconds away and watches the unhook happening, comes in right behind the unhooker so the chase initiates for them and then swing at the person who just got unhooked. A perk slot completely wasted because desperate killers will find a way around everything.
Relating it to head on and how that gets exhaustion is stupid too. Head on can be used multiple times. DS is ONCE. Killers really seem to struggle with the fact it is a SINGLE use perk. 5 second stun. Imagine if a killer had to use a perk slot for the chance at getting a 5 second benefit?? There would be outrage and threats to quit, as usual.
Post edited by Rizzo on0 -
Honestly the only thing DS needs is to deactivate when another survivor is hooked, since that is the literal definition of the killer NOT tunnelling you.
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DS needs a way to be deactivated. There's literally no rush involved with the perk, and the only way to counter the perk survivors get salty about it when killers do it.
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As @Sairek has beautifully mentioned. The power of Decisive Strike isn't in the actual stun itself but the threat of it.
Even if the survivor doesn't get the stun off, they're given 60 seconds of immunity where the killer cannot touch them and in certain situations that is absolutely broken.
So the whole "just slug them" isn't good enough.
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DS is good as it is.
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They are called hex perks. They can be completely deactivated in 12 seconds. Many times without the killer getting any benefit from them.
Games without DS are easier for killer because its one thing less the killer needs to keep track of.
I don't think the exhaustion idea is good, however if you get unhooked, and do something other than run away, the perk should deactivate.
Although if they change it to that then it shouldn't be a 1 time use. Also, i think there should always be an obsession on the game.
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You do know that 40 seconds is literally a full gen with 2 people, right?
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Why do you have my exact name aside from a underscore lol
I own this name how dare you 😏
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Really? Balance? You have a pretty warped idea of balance. You can't tell people to 'wait' 40 seconds and give up a free generator and call it balance. You can't slug someone who jumps in a locker, so nice try there. So you just want us to let them do generators for free? Our only choice is to let them work on a generator for 40 seconds, or get DSed and waste time. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about if you think those 6 options you gave are considered balance. All 6 of them benefit the survivor and hurt the killer. There is no balance to it at all.
If you think slugging is just a simple counter to BRAVE DS users then you don't have enough experience as a killer. Slugging still requires you to chase someone and waste time. Slugging still risks them just jumping into a locker and countering you slugging them in the first place. Slugging risks them having unbreakable and rendering all of your time even further wasted. Every single one of these options wastes TIME, which is the most important resource in this entire game. So no matter what option the killer takes, he loses out. None of these actually 'counter' aggressive DS users at all.
The reason people are complaining about DS is because they ARE NOT tunneling and still being affected by DS in a negative way. You're clearly just one of those pricks who wants to hide behind their iron wall of safety perks and then toxicly teabag as if you are actually skilled, and you don't want your protection taken away. Who exactly is the baby here?
I do everything in my power to play as fair a killer as possible and never hook anyone twice in a row, regardless of how long it has been since they been unhooked; and yet i still find myself frustrated at seeing someone that just got unhooked run to a generator, or attempt to bodyblock me, or sabo a hook, and now i am forced to just let them have it because if i don't it's considered tunneling?
Anyone trying to use the excuse "It's only 60 seconds" to justify how DS works now, is just braindead. Games can start and end in like 6 minutes, 60 seconds is enough to do almost an entire generator.
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So you just proved my point that no killer perk gives them a benefit for just 5 seconds in a whole match. A totem being cleansed (which I actually thought was 15 or 16 seconds but even if we use your figure of 12), is still more than double the benefit a survivor gets from the DS stun and that is based on a survivor starting on that totem at the second the game begins. So again, there is no killer perk that gives them 5 seconds of benefit.
The reward for most hex totems outweighs DS too. If ruin stays up you get a lot more than 5 seconds worth of gen regression. If Devour hope stays up you get exposed status and eventually able to outright kill them. NOED gives all survivors the exposed status. Those are a bit stronger than a 5 second stun, wouldn't you agree? Also, the killer gets to choose whether the survivor can even use DS in the first place. If they don't tunnel, it doesn't get used.
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I do #4 as survivor a lot to act like I have Ds, makes them slug me and its the best feeling sometimes
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Then it's your fault for not going for the unhooker.
Explain why you couldn't go for the unhooker instead?
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One person with DS has an effect on the killer for the ENTIRE match. Whether anyone is running it or not, if the killer isn't running an obsession perk, he has to assume DS is in play. The entire play style of the killer changes. DS is much more than the 5 seconds stun.
Much like a killer needs to adjust when they know person has dead hard. Their is a passive effect that lingers through the whole match.
You are correct that hex perks are powerful. So strong in fact that the survivors, the people being hunted by this super powered homicidal maniac, can remove it completely without any chance of it doing anything. Another thing, outside of ruin, no hex totems apply effects straight from the start of the match. And even with ruin, the killer has to do something to force the survivor off the generator. So in many many cases, hex totems give less than 5 seconds of value during a match.
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