Just wanted to let everyone know the "ds is an anti tunnel perk" argument isnt valid anymore

I just called and fired my lawyer. Looks like I don’t need a definition of tunneling argued for my political benefit in DBD anymore.

This thread is literally just stating fact. Inserting context that makes it seem childish is your fault, not OP's. Good attempt at trying to make OP feel guilty for no reason 👏🤗🌟

Alright, here are some problems with some perks.

DS essentially makes the survivor immune from being picked up in any way for 1 minute after being unhooked. While you can avoid a DS stun as killer by ignoring or slugging that survivor, that costs a lot of your time to counter a perk they might not even have equipped. Additionally, the perk can guarantee an escape in the endgame, so it's normally better to tank the DS stuns whenever possible to remove that possibility.

NOED punishes survivors for not cleansing totems, but in a similar way to DS, devoting a lot of your time to countering this perk the killer might not even have can cost you the game. This is even more of an issue when you aren't on coms with your teammates. The only way to guarantee NOED will not come into play is to be on coms and count the totems together.

Perks like Wake Up, Off the Record, Fire Up, Streetwise, Pharmacy, Autodidact, Sole Survivor, Poised, Dark Sense, Bloodhound, Predator, Unnerving Presence, Territorial Imperative, Beast of Prey, Huntress's Lullaby, Gearhead, Buckle Up, No Mither, Breakdown, Iron Maiden, Bodyguard, Camaraderie, and Cruel Limits are all so bad that running them is extremely close to running no perks at all. Why the hell would you run these when perks like Corrupt Intervention, Pop Goes The Weasel, Borrowed Time, Dead Hard, Sprint Burst, Iron Will, Adrenaline, Whispers, Save the Best for Last, and of course, DS and NOED exist? Even mid-tier perks like Botany knowledge or Brutal Strength would get some value each game. A huge problem is that even when those bad perks get value, it's minuscule. You save a few seconds or avoid a chase one time out of 5 games, great. Those perks need a buff badly.

I disagree that the idea that it was "purely to stop tunneling" came from the community. I think most people in this community know that people will get tunneled because they used DS. It's more of a "tunnel me!" kind of perk.

Joking, joking...

Seriously though, whether it's designed "purely to stop tunneling" or not, the devs clearly gave it conditions that activate to protect somebody from being tunneled. Sure, it's not purely to combat tunneling, but I still believe that's one of the goals they had when they designed it. There would be no other reason to give it such specific conditions. If it isn't the intention to at least make it partially about countering tunneling, then I feel like the design team just simply screwed the pooch on this one. The perk clearly has problems regardless of its intended use being to counter tunneling or not.

To try to make it all about semantics and "is it X kind of perk or Y kind of perk?" is just to ignore the actual concerns of people who dislike the perk.

Please don't try to twist me saying this into "I hate DS, it's still only meant for anti-tunnel." I don't care what you call it, just don't act like nothing is wrong with the way it works. We don't need 4 similar posts all talking about what to call the perk, something that doesn't even really concern the game's health.

Correct those perks you mentioned(except SFTS) are problematic because they're nearly useless. NOED you could argue that it's not a problem and instead camping and the solo-swf divide overall is to blame. DS is a 4 second stun if you pick up a survivor within 60 seconds of them being unhooked, it's avoidable and a 4 second stun isn't too bad. At end game DS can be very punishing but so can Adrenaline and BT so meh. Overall I appreciate your response and I admit that you make some good points.

DH and DS are great perks against tunnelers.

So survivors are just intended to run up and do things right in front of the killer and be essentially immune?

The concept of DBD is sound, and it is a fun game. (I didn't sink thousands of hours into it if I thought it was crap).

But they honestly need to work on how their perks work, because right now there's only like 10 perks that are worth to take on both sides and hundreds of perks that are either mediocre or really really bad. One perk even get worse the more you level them up like Discordance.

Because the only thing reason why I think something can be boring in this game is if you see it over and over again. You'll just give yourself an eyeroll because "Oh look, the Killer is playing that Killer again. Great. Time for another "Fun" match." because you already have bad experiences with previous killers who played dirty.

Or "God damn it, stupid Decisive Strike urgh!"

People tend to remember negative memories more than positive ones, which then leads to the toxicity of this community.

You must be one of those SFTS cultis right, no offence ofc but some maps literally have crows only on rocks in corners of the map. Yeah if you get 1 out of 3 good SFTS maps spies is almost decent but 80% of the time it's near useless. I think more crows at most used travel routes are need for it to be decent or even good.

Noed is problematic since it's totem spawn is random. That alone is extreme problem with some totems beiing so well hidden (very rare) or it just spawns in a spot that in itself is uncounterable at that stage of the game for some specific scenarios like near both gates on killer's patrol or besides 1-2 hooked survivors. These souldn't be happeing and that's not even touching that instadown+mm is in itself not very enjoyable design that can be easily abused. Solo's don't need to suffer from perk like this with how bad the matchmaking is so I truly believe that devs should give it major update making it more fun for both sides with less room for abuse.

I don't hink that camping in itself is a problem but the lack of more options for survivors to use against it. Something with large disadvantages but to be usefull to counter the most "toxic" abuse of this strategy as a last resort that won't results in that survior's death and gives them a chance. Camping overall is needed for killers as it is one of the most realiable ways to force survivors to make mistakes. If it should be significantly nerfed then the game needs to be tailored around killer beiing able to do 12 hooks which right now it 100% isn't.

DS I'm not really sure how to properly fix without nerfing it's ability to force killers to play more "fun". Since it was buffed to this state I've seen extreme more DS then before it was changed. I feel like there used to be better counterplay to old DS compared to this new one. Slugging survivors sounds nice on paper pressure wise but in reality, slugging at wrong times of the match can be as damaging as 2 min chase without actually downing that chased surivor which is near guarantee loss against competent survivors. I don't like it and all the ways it limits killer's gameplay and all the ways it's beiing used by survivors.

Whoo, I probably just felt like sharing my viewpoints on perks today since that was a lot of writing. I don't think we'll agree on this topic but I appreciate you actually responded seriously.

I said it's essentially immunity. There's some things you can do about it but they're far and few in between, especially when people run additional perks like Unbreakable to cover more weaknesses. I don't know if you just don't play high rank killer or something, but even I, as a highish rank killer (purple, sometimes red, not yet rank 1) have games that end extremely quickly. I'm not saying that I can never do anything to make it slow down, but there's several reasons I could just not be trying 100%. I could be playing for a daily ritual, playing a killer I haven't leveled up a lot, etc.

If you have to worry about every player running DS and count to 60, for each one, combined with the times it actually takes you to get somebody down with some killers, the time easily adds up beyond what some games will last.

Unless you want killers to just run a mori and extreme tunnel people to get them out of the game ASAP, every single game, then sure. You can have your 60 seconds of immunity. I personally wouldn't prefer that because I feel, as I'm pretty sure the developers feel, that special things like an ivory mori or a high tier addon should be treats for people to use once in a while, not a regular thing they bring in their loadouts. On top of that, I'm just personally not a fan of being 1 hook mori'd every single game. But as I said, unless you want stuff like that to be regular, then survivors can't just be "more bold" (essentially immune) for 60 seconds. Yeah, they're not literally invulnerable obviously, but unless you're playing against people who don't know what they're doing, the time it's going to take for the killer to consider multiple DS, along with any additional "second chance" perks a survivor might bring, and the chases they have to go through, the time really adds up.

And no, it's not "bullshit." People obviously don't mean they literally have god mode. What they mean when they say that, is it's a 5 second stun that practically guarantees that they're going to get away to a safe position, and therefore have wasted your time, whilst you're able to do nothing about it because you know that if you attempt to stop them they're just going to do it in your face anyway. If you think that's the idea of "working as intended," then I really have nothing more to say than that I don't have time to try to convince somebody with such a survivor sided mind.

I'm personally not a fan of the whole "us vs. them, killer vs. survivor" mentality, but it really feels like you don't have a lot of experience as killer if you think somebody being able to just do whatever they want for 60 seconds is "working as intended."

This.

I think it's because he is both a Dev and a Community Manager, so it is kinda his job to also be on the forums answering questions.

I think all older perks need to get reworked. How many dlc are we in and the meta for Both killer and survivor hasnt changed? All the new perks has conditions before they can be used unlike the older ones that are straight forward but they are still as or even more effective.

This should not be the case, i prefer that all the perks have high conditions like the newer perks.

Note: this doesnt only included the meta perks but also the perks that are bad like monstreous shrine.