Survivors=Owls

Tsulan · October 2018

@SenzuDuck said:

@Tsulan said:

@SenzuDuck said:

@Tsulan said:

Yawn

Ooooook...

Look at all those Dstrikes and self cares that plague rank one!!!!!!!!
Also 3 WGLF so they were probably farming the crap out of each other, good job!

Might wanna check your own screenshots. 1 DS in all 3.
But you still try to belittle me.

Why am i even bothering answering you. You´ll just find another excuse to feel superior.

Exactly, four matches, 1 DS. DS is annoying as heck but people still make it out like every survivor and their dog is running it.

I mean, you post one game, of a two kill freddy match, where all gens have been done and they're all farming in an attempt to downplay my match, you literally commented "Yawn". You're the one belittling sweetheart.

They both escaped with a key.

Seanzu · October 2018

@Tsulan said:
They both escaped with a key.

Yep, let's just forget about you belittling me first and then playing victim, poor Tsulan

Tsulan · October 2018

@SenzuDuck said:

@Tsulan said:
They both escaped with a key.

Yep, let's just forget about you belittling me first and then playing victim, poor Tsulan

Wait, you already forgot the other discussion, where i had to stop, because you couldn´t argue like a adult and just went on belittleling me? Was yesterday. I´m also stopping this one, because AGAIN you are trying to derail this discussion.

Seanzu · October 2018

@Tsulan said:

@SenzuDuck said:

@Tsulan said:
They both escaped with a key.

Yep, let's just forget about you belittling me first and then playing victim, poor Tsulan

Wait, you already forgot the other discussion, where i had to stop, because you couldn´t argue like a adult and just went on belittleling me? Was yesterday. I´m also stopping this one, because AGAIN you are trying to derail this discussion.

Except, I'm having a discussion with someone else, you interjected into the conversation and try to belittle me, and then cry when I reply back saying I'm derailing?

You guys are odd sometimes.

Edit: and there you have it folks, he gets called out on his own derail BS and instantly goes into ignore mode like he didn't break the one rule he constantly talks about. Hypocrite.

Tsulan · October 2018

Back to topic!
The first person view could be implemented in a hardcore mode.

Chrona · October 2018

Such anger and toxicity in this thread, it's incredible. Like @Tsulan Said, back on topic...

I don't think that changing the perspective, or limiting it, would be beneficial to the game as a whole. First of all, if they couldn't see directly behind them, and this was a known fact, any stealth killer would simply have to walk straight towards the back of a survivor on, say, a generator, ESPECIALLY if they were solo (in game, or specifically on that action). They would get grabbed or hit, end of story. In order to work against this, they would have to stop working on the generator, turn X degrees, look to what was previously directly behind them, then turn and get back on the generator. That's a bit much.

Also, there's a reason that proper stealth games implement cover systems, especially in first person games. Because it's hard to properly judge where your avatar is based solely on a first-person camera. Not impossible, mind you, but enough so that cover systems are generally worthwhile. I would also like to point out that many games that are played in first person shift TO third person while in cover, particularly while doing stealth. That way you can actually SEE what you're fighting/avoiding WHILE stealthing/fighting. Deus Ex Human Revolution and Mankind Divided spring to mind.

As far as say, looping goes, the killer has a visual cue as to know where the survivor is, even if they lose line of sight (namely scratch marks, but also blood). The survivor doesn't, but they have an easier time keeping LOS in the first place, due to their different perspective. This is also important to remember that one is chasing, and the other is being chased. If the chased has no way of knowing properly where the chaser is, that's not a great situation. Also, it's ignoring the fact that, like with the generators at the start, you would have to turn your body in order to see them. It's just an inconvenience. A minor, unneeded annoyance.

And finally....Cameras like that, in video games, with limited viewing angles, restricted in the back, etc? Been done. Plenty of times. And every time, it's just annoying. Pointlessly annoying.

Seanzu · October 2018

@Chrona said:
Such anger and toxicity in this thread, it's incredible. Like @Tsulan Said, back on topic...

I don't think that changing the perspective, or limiting it, would be beneficial to the game as a whole. First of all, if they couldn't see directly behind them, and this was a known fact, any stealth killer would simply have to walk straight towards the back of a survivor on, say, a generator, ESPECIALLY if they were solo (in game, or specifically on that action). They would get grabbed or hit, end of story. In order to work against this, they would have to stop working on the generator, turn X degrees, look to what was previously directly behind them, then turn and get back on the generator. That's a bit much.

Also, there's a reason that proper stealth games implement cover systems, especially in first person games. Because it's hard to properly judge where your avatar is based solely on a first-person camera. Not impossible, mind you, but enough so that cover systems are generally worthwhile. I would also like to point out that many games that are played in first person shift TO third person while in cover, particularly while doing stealth. That way you can actually SEE what you're fighting/avoiding WHILE stealthing/fighting. Deus Ex Human Revolution and Mankind Divided spring to mind.

As far as say, looping goes, the killer has a visual cue as to know where the survivor is, even if they lose line of sight (namely scratch marks, but also blood). The survivor doesn't, but they have an easier time keeping LOS in the first place, due to their different perspective. This is also important to remember that one is chasing, and the other is being chased. If the chased has no way of knowing properly where the chaser is, that's not a great situation. Also, it's ignoring the fact that, like with the generators at the start, you would have to turn your body in order to see them. It's just an inconvenience. A minor, unneeded annoyance.

And finally....Cameras like that, in video games, with limited viewing angles, restricted in the back, etc? Been done. Plenty of times. And every time, it's just annoying. Pointlessly annoying.

Completely agree, with a game like this it's absolutely necessary.

White_Owl · October 2018

This game has third person view for survivors as a core mechanic, changing it to first would make it terrible for survivors simply because the game was build around this difference between killers and survivors. I once thought it could be interesting to limit the camera during repairs, but if you think about it skillchecks are there to limit the survivors' ability to look around freely in a more clever way, since skillchecks switch your focus from the surrounding.
In any case I wonder why some "unbiased" players play this game if they don't like the fact that survivors have third person view. It's one of the first thing you are told about this game.

ps I'm pretty sure the devs already tested different camera solutions during the game development, it's not that they woke up and said "let's make survivors third person!". The one we have now it's probably the most optimal.

Tsulan · October 2018

@White_Owl said:
This game has third person view for survivors as a core mechanic, changing it to first would make it terrible for survivors simply because the game was build around this difference between killers and survivors. I once thought it could be interesting to limit the camera during repairs, but if you think about it skillchecks are there to limit the survivors' ability to look around freely in a more clever way, since skillchecks switch your focus from the surrounding.
In any case I wonder why some "unbiased" players play this game if they don't like the fact that survivors have third person view. It's one of the first thing you are told about this game.

ps I'm pretty sure the devs already tested different camera solutions during the game development, it's not that they woke up and said "let's make survivors third person!". The one we have now it's probably the most optimal.

Camping is a core mechanic, SWF wasn´t even intended as a mechanic. The game changed over time.
Make it optional for people who want more jump scares (hardcore mode) or an alternative for people who regularly play with No Mither.

White_Owl · October 2018

@Tsulan said:

@White_Owl said:
This game has third person view for survivors as a core mechanic, changing it to first would make it terrible for survivors simply because the game was build around this difference between killers and survivors. I once thought it could be interesting to limit the camera during repairs, but if you think about it skillchecks are there to limit the survivors' ability to look around freely in a more clever way, since skillchecks switch your focus from the surrounding.
In any case I wonder why some "unbiased" players play this game if they don't like the fact that survivors have third person view. It's one of the first thing you are told about this game.

ps I'm pretty sure the devs already tested different camera solutions during the game development, it's not that they woke up and said "let's make survivors third person!". The one we have now it's probably the most optimal.

Camping is a core mechanic, SWF wasn´t even intended as a mechanic. The game changed over time.
Make it optional for people who want more jump scares (hardcore mode) or an alternative for people who regularly play with No Mither.

The game changes, but the core remains always the same, that's what makes the game's identity.
And hardcore mode would be nice, but it should change more than just the survivor's pov. For example the chase music shouldn't cover most of the killer's noises preventing you to know where he is by sound.

Tsulan · October 2018

@White_Owl said:

@Tsulan said:

@White_Owl said:
This game has third person view for survivors as a core mechanic, changing it to first would make it terrible for survivors simply because the game was build around this difference between killers and survivors. I once thought it could be interesting to limit the camera during repairs, but if you think about it skillchecks are there to limit the survivors' ability to look around freely in a more clever way, since skillchecks switch your focus from the surrounding.
In any case I wonder why some "unbiased" players play this game if they don't like the fact that survivors have third person view. It's one of the first thing you are told about this game.

ps I'm pretty sure the devs already tested different camera solutions during the game development, it's not that they woke up and said "let's make survivors third person!". The one we have now it's probably the most optimal.

Camping is a core mechanic, SWF wasn´t even intended as a mechanic. The game changed over time.
Make it optional for people who want more jump scares (hardcore mode) or an alternative for people who regularly play with No Mither.

The game changes, but the core remains always the same, that's what makes the game's identity.
And hardcore mode would be nice, but it should change more than just the survivor's pov. For example the chase music shouldn't cover most of the killer's noises preventing you to know where he is by sound.

My approach on a hardcore mode. More things could be added (optionally).
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/15899/hardcore-mode#latest

AshleyWB · October 2018

Limiting survivors vision would give stealthy plays a much needed advantage. Killer view is limited why not survivors.

Chrona · October 2018

@AshleyWB Because of reasons I stated in my previous post but don't feel like repeating here Also what @White_Owl Said four posts above.

@Tsulan I may be wrong here, but I don't think they will likely ever include any matchmaking "modes." Biggest reason? It'll split the playerbase. The playerbase for dead by daylight is a good, healthy size. Not massive, not small. Add different queues for different modes? Suddenly there's less players for you to play with. The amount of players in any queue is a 0 sum game. In order for one mode to do well, the other must suffer having less players. Let's say exactly half the active players decide to only play that hardcore mode now: That's half as many people playing the normal mode. And both mode will have longer, and more uneven, queues also, because there's only half the normal amount of players.

This is the same reason that they release the maps to all players, instead of just the DLC purchasers (similar to call of duty, etc). By releasing it to everyone, and having it affect everyone, it means there are no splits in the player base. SWF and KYF don't really count, because SWF feeds into the main matchmaking, and KYF is a small side mode, honestly. Plus there's no matchmaking for it, of course.

Let's compare it to say, overwatch. Overwatch has an insane number of players playing it on a daily basis. Blizzard can afford to split the playerbase by modes. Even then, it can be hard to find players for some of the unpopular modes (like certain arcade modes, etc).

Tsulan · October 2018

Chrona said:

@AshleyWB Because of reasons I stated in my previous post but don't feel like repeating here Also what @White_Owl Said four posts above.

@Tsulan I may be wrong here, but I don't think they will likely ever include any matchmaking "modes." Biggest reason? It'll split the playerbase. The playerbase for dead by daylight is a good, healthy size. Not massive, not small. Add different queues for different modes? Suddenly there's less players for you to play with. The amount of players in any queue is a 0 sum game. In order for one mode to do well, the other must suffer having less players. Let's say exactly half the active players decide to only play that hardcore mode now: That's half as many people playing the normal mode. And both mode will have longer, and more uneven, queues also, because there's only half the normal amount of players.

This is the same reason that they release the maps to all players, instead of just the DLC purchasers (similar to call of duty, etc). By releasing it to everyone, and having it affect everyone, it means there are no splits in the player base. SWF and KYF don't really count, because SWF feeds into the main matchmaking, and KYF is a small side mode, honestly. Plus there's no matchmaking for it, of course.

Let's compare it to say, overwatch. Overwatch has an insane number of players playing it on a daily basis. Blizzard can afford to split the playerbase by modes. Even then, it can be hard to find players for some of the unpopular modes (like certain arcade modes, etc).

This game is at the same time: incredibly addicting (most veterans have 1000+ hours) and incredibly frustrating (no big player retention).
Many new players get scared away, by how frustrating the game is.
So different game modes could change the game for a better experience.

A casual mode could offer 12 gens and 5 hook stages to die. It would give both sides a relaxing match. Everyone would earn points.

Ranked mode would be harder, just as it is now. It would require more to actually pip. But could award rewards at the end of a season, which should take 3 months.

The ranked mode could also appeal to esports. The small tournament TydeTime hosted, were really fun to watch.

Hardcore mode for horror fans which want to alter their experience.

All 3 things could drastically increase the popularity of DbD. Which in turn would increase the player base.

KillJiggy · October 2018

@SenzuDuck said:
I don't think people realise the only reason -this- game works is because of third person view for the survivors.

It wouldn't be very fun for a survivor if they couldn't see where the killer is when they're running in between certain objects, it would make stealth incredible useless, as the only way you can convincingly hide from something is if you can see it.

I wouldn't mind if they tried it, but I really don't think it would make the game better and would in fact make it unfun for the other side.

Yeah i think the survivors need the 3rd person advantage, but not seeing behind them would make them need to play safer.> @PhantomMask20763 said:

@SenzuDuck said:
I don't think people realise the only reason -this- game works is because of third person view for the survivors.

It wouldn't be very fun for a survivor if they couldn't see where the killer is when they're running in between certain objects, it would make stealth incredible useless, as the only way you can convincingly hide from something is if you can see it.

I wouldn't mind if they tried it, but I really don't think it would make the game better and would in fact make it unfun for the other side.

I think it could work, just keep the 3rd person view just don't let them look behind them. If they tested it we could all see how it works and you could still stealth it's just that it would be a little more difficult. It could also upgrade the killers mindgame potential around pallets. It would need lots of testing before actually making it into the game though.

This is my thought process as well

Peanits · October 2018

Interesting in theory, but I can see this causing issues against killers like Michael Myers, pig, and wraith. If you had to keep getting off a generator just to check for them, it would feel really clunky.

KillJiggy · October 2018

@Peanits said:
Interesting in theory, but I can see this causing issues against killers like Michael Myers, pig, and wraith. If you had to keep getting off a generator just to check for them, it would feel really clunky.

@Peanits said:
Interesting in theory, but I can see this causing issues against killers like Michael Myers, pig, and wraith. If you had to keep getting off a generator just to check for them, it would feel really clunky.

There are a lot of gens in the game where you can put your back to a wall or something and be safe, there are some that wouldnt be as safe though. There is also premonition, and having more than one person on those gens would combat that, which would buff bond/leader slightly
Edit:myers pig wraith could use a little help lol
Editx2:Could also make it to where you just cant turn around while being chased

NMCKE · October 2018

SenzuDuck said:

@PhantomMask20763 said:

@SenzuDuck said:
I don't think people realise the only reason -this- game works is because of third person view for the survivors.

It wouldn't be very fun for a survivor if they couldn't see where the killer is when they're running in between certain objects, it would make stealth incredible useless, as the only way you can convincingly hide from something is if you can see it.

I wouldn't mind if they tried it, but I really don't think it would make the game better and would in fact make it unfun for the other side.

I think it could work, just keep the 3rd person view just don't let them look behind them. If they tested it we could all see how it works and you could still stealth it's just that it would be a little more difficult. It could also upgrade the killers mindgame potential around pallets. It would need lots of testing before actually making it into the game though.

I just don't think it would work, honestly.

I think crouching would be okay a third person PoV! However whenever you're standing up, you're gonna be in first person PoV!

Bravo0413 · October 2018

SenzuDuck said:

@ZombieGenesis said:
Maybe the devs should have thought of that before having gens be the primary focus of survivor gameplay. If you don't think the POV system in this game is broken you're not just biased, you're being willfully dense. Not that I expect any less from the likes of you.

My bias stems from stems from a desire for a fun and tense game for both survivors and killers. Where does yours come from? The desire to be a twat 24/7? Trying to achieve some world record for being an obtuse douchebag? Or maybe you're just not very smart.

Ooft, he's upset.
I personally think it's more of a

"This is how the devs wanted the game to be, and it's a solid construct as YOURE STILL PLAYING IT". Are you forgetting every time you load this game up you're supporting the mere concept of this game?

If you're so upset and on edge about this feature THAT IS A CORE PART of this game, you can quite easily move on sweetheart, there's millions of other games out there.

The game isn't impossible because of the POV
The game isn't impossible because of SWF
The game isn't impossible because of Camping
The game isn't impossible because of Tunneling
The game isn't impossible if your totem gets broken
The game isn't impossible if you get mori'd within 1 minute

Just a few of the complaints that people would like to act make the game impossible, but are simply a case of the "Get Goods".

The whole point of a survivor is to survive, and juke when possible. If you can only see straight ahead you can't pick a good object to duck behind, you can't get off a gen when Mikey is in tier one, you can't dodge a nurse blinking at you, you can't dodge a huntress hatchet, you can't swing away from a rapid billy chainsaw.

The killer abilities aren't overpowered because they're semi counterable by POV, which makes them fun and engaging to go against when playing survivor.

Lets just take away all the survivor fun because hey, once again, you want the EZ PZ Win.

Freaking whiners.

I disagree on the point of a survivor.. it's not too survive it's about doing enough to "win" or pip the devs want a 2 death 2 survive ratio so in that case 2 people are/should die so it's about doing enough to pip and get enough BP to be happy

Seanzu · October 2018

@Nickenzie said:
SenzuDuck said:

@PhantomMask20763 said:
 @SenzuDuck said:
I don't think people realise the only reason -this- game works is because of third person view for the survivors.

It wouldn't be very fun for a survivor if they couldn't see where the killer is when they're running in between certain objects, it would make stealth incredible useless, as the only way you can convincingly hide from something is if you can see it.

I wouldn't mind if they tried it, but I really don't think it would make the game better and would in fact make it unfun for the other side.

I think it could work, just keep the 3rd person view just don't let them look behind them. If they tested it we could all see how it works and you could still stealth it's just that it would be a little more difficult. It could also upgrade the killers mindgame potential around pallets. It would need lots of testing before actually making it into the game though.

I just don't think it would work, honestly.

I think crouching would be okay a third person PoV! However whenever you're standing up, you're gonna be in first person PoV!

Sorry m8, when I tbag I don't want to be disorientated by the camera switching, lol.

Honestly though the whole points of ducking is to stealth etc, if you can't see what you're hiding from, less survivors will juke and just opt for always running, making juking harder will only make the "looping" issue worse.

Tsulan · October 2018

SenzuDuck said:
@Nickenzie said:
SenzuDuck said:

@PhantomMask20763 said:
 @SenzuDuck said:
I don't think people realise the only reason -this- game works is because of third person view for the survivors.

It wouldn't be very fun for a survivor if they couldn't see where the killer is when they're running in between certain objects, it would make stealth incredible useless, as the only way you can convincingly hide from something is if you can see it.

I wouldn't mind if they tried it, but I really don't think it would make the game better and would in fact make it unfun for the other side.

I think it could work, just keep the 3rd person view just don't let them look behind them. If they tested it we could all see how it works and you could still stealth it's just that it would be a little more difficult. It could also upgrade the killers mindgame potential around pallets. It would need lots of testing before actually making it into the game though.

I just don't think it would work, honestly.

I think crouching would be okay a third person PoV! However whenever you're standing up, you're gonna be in first person PoV!
Sorry m8, when I tbag I don't want to be disorientated by the camera switching, lol.

Honestly though the whole points of ducking is to stealth etc, if you can't see what you're hiding from, less survivors will juke and just opt for always running, making juking harder will only make the "looping" issue worse.

I can count the amount of survivors that knew how to juke me on one hand...
Wouldn't really affect a big survivor population.

DarkWo1f997 · October 2018

I think making it to where the player can only see things that the character model’s eyes can see would fix this. So the killer will be invisible when you crouch behind cover, but be visible when your character regains line of sight with the killer.

Seanzu · October 2018

@Tsulan said:
SenzuDuck said:

@Nickenzie said:

SenzuDuck said:
@PhantomMask20763 said:
@SenzuDuck said:
I don't think people realise the only reason -this- game works is because of third person view for the survivors.

It wouldn't be very fun for a survivor if they couldn't see where the killer is when they're running in between certain objects, it would make stealth incredible useless, as the only way you can convincingly hide from something is if you can see it.

I wouldn't mind if they tried it, but I really don't think it would make the game better and would in fact make it unfun for the other side.



I think it could work, just keep the 3rd person view just don't let them look behind them. If they tested it we could all see how it works and you could still stealth it's just that it would be a little more difficult. It could also upgrade the killers mindgame potential around pallets. It would need lots of testing before actually making it into the game though.



I just don't think it would work, honestly.
I think crouching would be okay a third person PoV! However whenever you're standing up, you're gonna be in first person PoV!

Sorry m8, when I tbag I don't want to be disorientated by the camera switching, lol.

Honestly though the whole points of ducking is to stealth etc, if you can't see what you're hiding from, less survivors will juke and just opt for always running, making juking harder will only make the "looping" issue worse.

I can count the amount of survivors that knew how to juke me on one hand...
Wouldn't really affect a big survivor population.

But, and I think you'll agree with me, so many killers complain that juking isn't done enough, if you make it even harder no one will do it, there's new survivors that will just think the best think is to run, so if they crouch they can't see anything so stop doing it entirely, imo.

Eninya · October 2018

@Peanits said:
Interesting in theory, but I can see this causing issues against killers like Michael Myers, pig, and wraith. If you had to keep getting off a generator just to check for them, it would feel really clunky.

Only Myers is stealthy about catching people on generators, though. Wraith and Pig both have audio cues for canceling stealth (if you want to call it that).

KillJiggy · October 2018

@Eninya said:

@Peanits said:
Interesting in theory, but I can see this causing issues against killers like Michael Myers, pig, and wraith. If you had to keep getting off a generator just to check for them, it would feel really clunky.

Only Myers is stealthy about catching people on generators, though. Wraith and Pig both have audio cues for canceling stealth (if you want to call it that).

You can pull someone off a gen as pig with no audio cue, better than you could with myers in fact.

DemonDaddy · October 2018

Why do people always bring up staring at gens. Honestly if the Dev's went forward with the idea I have to believe that very issue would get addressed. Again I say the option (not mandatory) would be great as a survivor. I want some tension in a match, watching the killer and ignoring things like fog make core aspects feel underwhelming. A hook feels more desevered for the killer if they were able to get the drop on me, which in turn makes it feel like a horror movie when compared to the chases.

xmenfanatic · October 2018

What if survivors were in first person until they interacted with an object like a generator, chest, totem, hook, etc. it would still severely limit POV, and still provide the interesting cinematic scenes we get from third person when playing survivor. I would be sad to lose that, and I definitely think third person can add a horrro aspect because seeing the killer follow you from behind is stressful from time to time and I think that it would be less visually appealing to always have them in first person. Seeing an ally get attacked a few meters from you shows you what will happen to you if you get caught and adds to the stress and fear of it.

KillJiggy · October 2018

I dont think survivors should be limited to first person, ever. Maybe for a fun game mode, but not by default. Just not being able to see behind them in third person would be enough.

Eninya · October 2018

@KillJiggy said:

@Eninya said:

@Peanits said:
Interesting in theory, but I can see this causing issues against killers like Michael Myers, pig, and wraith. If you had to keep getting off a generator just to check for them, it would feel really clunky.

Only Myers is stealthy about catching people on generators, though. Wraith and Pig both have audio cues for canceling stealth (if you want to call it that).

You can pull someone off a gen as pig with no audio cue, better than you could with myers in fact.

Then you've got some survivors with bad audio setups. You can hear Pig's blade retract. Myers has literally no voice cues until he's close enough for his breathing, but if he wants to grab you it's too late by the time you've heard it.

βLAKE · October 2018

Wait. Wouldn't this just make it first person point of view?

Tsulan · October 2018

SenzuDuck said:
@Tsulan said:
SenzuDuck said:

@Nickenzie said:

SenzuDuck said:
@PhantomMask20763 said:
@SenzuDuck said:
I don't think people realise the only reason -this- game works is because of third person view for the survivors.

It wouldn't be very fun for a survivor if they couldn't see where the killer is when they're running in between certain objects, it would make stealth incredible useless, as the only way you can convincingly hide from something is if you can see it.

I wouldn't mind if they tried it, but I really don't think it would make the game better and would in fact make it unfun for the other side.



I think it could work, just keep the 3rd person view just don't let them look behind them. If they tested it we could all see how it works and you could still stealth it's just that it would be a little more difficult. It could also upgrade the killers mindgame potential around pallets. It would need lots of testing before actually making it into the game though.



I just don't think it would work, honestly.
I think crouching would be okay a third person PoV! However whenever you're standing up, you're gonna be in first person PoV!

Sorry m8, when I tbag I don't want to be disorientated by the camera switching, lol.

Honestly though the whole points of ducking is to stealth etc, if you can't see what you're hiding from, less survivors will juke and just opt for always running, making juking harder will only make the "looping" issue worse.

I can count the amount of survivors that knew how to juke me on one hand...
Wouldn't really affect a big survivor population.
But, and I think you'll agree with me, so many killers complain that juking isn't done enough, if you make it even harder no one will do it, there's new survivors that will just think the best think is to run, so if they crouch they can't see anything so stop doing it entirely, imo.

Meh...
Yes, I agree with you. Don't tell anyone.

Peasant · October 2018

Folks, all we're asking for is the option for first person. We're not going to shove the restricted FOV down your throats. We're only asking that the survivors who want to be in first person be given the option.

Survivors=Owls

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