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The killer should play how he wants without being shamed for it, but the shaming seems incentivized
In this game, the survivors can do their best to escape (as they should) and are not called "toxic" for it, but if the killer tunnels, camps and slugs for a 4k or 3k, or if the killer ever plays to get kills, he is considered a "sweaty" axhole who "just plays for wins" and toxic for being "unfun" and "boring" for the survivors; if the killer just get 2k or 1k or no kills, he will get mocked in the endgame chat with people bragging about how superior they are while calling the killer a "loser" and saying a bunch of things to make him feel bad. In the endgame chat, why be the most angry and extremely offensive person to the person playing killer? As if you NEVER had an escape before.
The killer should not camp in any way possible, should not bring "unfun" perks for the survivors, the killer should simply play killer "just to enjoy the chase" and "not caring for kills", sort of shaming the killer for playing optimally or the way he want; again, camping at 5 gens is not "toxic", tunneling to guarantee the kill is not "toxic", slugging for the 4k is not "toxic" and the killer is not the worst human being on the world in real life just because he played in a way in a online videogame. And no, camping does NOT need nerf, all of the other killer strategies are already dead with the new meta and camping only works depending on the situation and determined by how experienced the survivors are. Even then, the killer should play how he wants without being shamed for it, be him a basement bubba or a killer that simply uses noed to feel more safe.
The survivors can play the way they want to escape or whatever, the same can be applied to the killer, is simple as that. People already shame killers on youtube a lot, like making compilations thrasing on the performance of killers while bragging indirectly. But it seems that the behavior is encouraged.
I personally defend the killer on the endgame chat when i play survivor (i mostly play survivor), i don´t see how the mob mentality against a side of the game with the least mains is considered appropriate.
Comments
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You clearly haven't been very long on the forums if you believe that survivors don't get called "toxic" for playing optimally...
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not nearly as killers when they camp, they are always treated as the worst human beings ever in the endgame chat; i think survivors should play optimally and killers too, killers just deal with worse because the toxicity to them is constant and behavior will nerf camping unfortunately
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This is a joke, survivors get ######### on for every little thing they do more than killers, have you not read the forums and saw who gets complained about the most?, some of these people think perks are toxic it's outrageous at this point, I've played this game since release and this woe is me bullshit needs to stop the card is so overplayed it's worn out now and been drawn back on with a crayon
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You payed for the game so play how you want. Unless its not against the rules, you can do what you want.
But why would you talk to enemy team after the game? I never understood why people care so much.
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just had a game last night. end game chat went something like this:
me: gg! sorry for the blinds - was doing a challenge
killer: f you. youre toxic. unalive yourself.
me: what did I do that was toxic?
killer: ye were all doing gens
note: the killer tunnelled out one person. ignored unhooked when they tried body blocking for them, etc.
tldr: both sides are called toxic for just playing the game. very few in game things are toxic. Endgame chat is the only really toxic thing
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generally bully squads and people that click flashlights waste too much time doing it instead of doing gens, is funny; the worse thing is the toxicity in the endgame chat if the killer goes bad on a match, regardless if he camped or not; there were rate games that a genrush squad of brain new parts got to the game and all four nodded their heads, very cute and they said gg wp instead of being toxic, i think is fair and nice when people is simply playing optimally but never toxic. I fail to see how tbagging is like camping.
the problem is when camping gets nerfed and it will, the devs insinuated it on the recent stream, while also making BT basekit (which is not the main problem, but still), but yes, people should play how they want.
i agree, the endgame chat is awful; is not right to be toxic to the killer regardless of if he camped or tunneled or to put him down just for getting one kill or no kill, most of the times the bad attitude comes from survivors (since they are the majority), the rare moments with nice survivors is unfortunately very very rare. I personally defend the killer on the endgame chat, even if he camps or tunnels me i say "wp" to them.
Post edited by INoLuv on2 -
Not gonna lie this old song has been sung so much that its become cringe both sides get a lot of toxicity on their end Survivors actually encounter it pretty commonly from each other and sometimes Killers. Also can we stop with the strawman argument about who gets it more that's not the point it's just toxicity in this game in general it doesn't effect one side more then the other it effects everyone equally.
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I only think your new because when you've been here long enough, you won't care about forum or community politics (unless your in a SWF constantly) and will play how you want anyway. People are hypocrite it's a fact of life, we all are
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News Flash, killers are going to play how they want to play and so are survivors.
Players need to accept it and move on. Camping, tunnelling, slugging, flashlight saves, DH, DS, pallets, loops, ect are all fair game.
Learn to adapt to the playstyle, keep complaing and never get better, or quit.
Fighting, bullying and arguing isn't going to fix anything and clearly there are no changes in the works. We as the player base just have to accept this is how the game is now.
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I treat it as something psychological because it's the most logical way I can understand this situation.
This game is built around violence and death, giving the other side something not fun to deal with in one way or another.
The killer is a lone player who has to face 4 players. Usually four of them are veteran players or just players with confidence because they know how to play the game well. It is very easy to provoke the rival when there are 3 people who can help you (since Survivor is pretty easy to play as).
Shaming has become an integral part for both sides because the game that is not 100% fun for both sides and some bad behavior subconsciously hurts our self-confidence and ego, some players can't hold back their emotions because of that.
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I can say that I don't feel threatened anymore when I play as a survivor because of so many advantages.
But when I play Killer, I can feel my blood pressure rising and my nerve level ticking when I'm just at the beginning of the game.
So many provocations and disadvantages, I always need to rely on good RNG and good maps to enjoy my gameplay. It's quite excruciating to face 4 people ruining my fun, whether because of bad behavior or because of excellent advantages to the other side.
I can understand why survivors are so toxic and why it comes out so easily, as I said because of self-confidence and ego.
Also the game is unbalanced, another thing that trigger BM's.
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I firmly believe a large amount of survivors do not want a PVP game but a co-op PVE game, and they get angry when people play in a way that removes their PVE Co-op experience. They feel they should win because that's how it works in a co-op game. They feel they are supposed to win. The fact they expect the killer to play "just for the chase" and not try to win is further evidence they view the killer as an NPC, and not another player.
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Killers tunnelling someone out at five gens isn't toxic, survivors ignoring everything except gens isn't toxic, both are winning strategies, both are extremely unfun to do and to be on the recieving end of but you're not going to shame anyone out of doing them.
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If you play killer i recommend you and everyone that want to play killer to not care at all about others and just play as you want. Its not like someone will praise you or something for playing less or more dirty, play as you want, play to have fun wich is the purpose of a game.. and finally and most important turn off the chat, it really has no use other than being toxic to each other and that will never change.
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Agreed. Imagine if the killer was an NPC. The killer would definitely tunnel, and if programmed to camp, would definitely camp.
As for survivors, it would depend on the programming for each one.
I will say this... A lot of PVP games have salty, toxic players. Look at COD or Battlefield. Players complain all the time about camping. Even with snipers. But it's a strategy that actually gets a lot of kills. But the players complain because they think it shouldn't be allowed. In reality, if it wasn't allowed, then the devs would program the game to not allow it.
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No, people have a right to their opinion. They can shame you for doing whatever. The issue is really when they can't man up, wipe their wittle tears away and accept it. Instead they cry for nerfs. Waah, Bubba is unfair because I cannot unhook for free against an instant down if I bring my posse, waah. It is embarrassing, fam.
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I remember I said something to likes of "I paid for the game so I should be able to play as optimal as I want as a killer" in the DBD discord. Appearently that was incredibly controversial and got a chain of "yikes" from survivoids.
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Yikes, Somber. Taking a game with less competitive integrity than Mario Party and optimizing it does sound kind of cringe. Unless you play survivor, that is. All we can do is rush our objective and predrop hold w and hope our second chances can get us out of the gate. You do not know the every day struggle.
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Playing optimally in DbD quite often implies a playstyle that is not fun for the other side (and sometimes for their own side as well), denies the other side BP, and may cause them to depip. That's a large reason why it's complained about. This is possible to change.
There are more survivors being toxic since there are more survivors and people feel more emboldened in a group. This is very difficult to change.
This is not the fault of the player using optimal strategies; it's a design issue for BHVR to fix or ignore as they see fit. The player shouldn't be blamed as the player has no control over how the game is designed. Attacking the players of either side over how they play the game is unwarranted.
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you are 100% right in everything you said, i resonate with your response; i add that what fuels even more the ego and self-confidence that they feel, beyond the numerous advantages that they have on dbd, is the group mentality of superiority, where each one relates to the toxicity of one another while feeling safe given that 4 of them have the advantages, and even then they still ask for killers to get more nerfs. This is why there is a killer shortage that is increasing.
Yes, 100% this, the killer is not viewed as a player and if the killer is viewed as a player, the killer is considered a awful human being for playing for kills and camping.
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This argument never seems to end, so i'll just give the usual reply. A survivor who rushes gens is not preventing the killer from playing. a tunneled survivor will only earn some points in two categories, at best. When he is camped, he will simply stop doing anything. As a camped survivor, you won't be able to heal (others or yourself), repair gens, cleanse totems, bless totems, use pallets, vault windows, stun the killer, escape the chase, engage in a chase, save others with a flashlight, unhook, open exit gates. You are DENIED everything, and cannot plat anymore. As a killer, that cannot happen. You will always be able to hit survivors, chase them, down them, chase them, hook them, destroy pallets, snuff totems, use your ability. And that's a whole lot different. That's why killers who camp are (rightfully) called toxic, because they are. And people who can only play in SWF groups are just the same, but they still don't have the chance of denying the killer anything, from scoring points to simply MOVING. Now, if this game was something along the lines of "stand still simulator", there wouldn't be a problem with it. But for something that you need to buy, all of that should not happen. And the players who allow it are just as much part of the issue as the devs who refuse to address it properly.
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The killer plays around the hook system in the way that he wants, is part of the gameplay and is perfectly fine, even if is boring for one side, which is not a bad thing for a multiplayer online game and is the only killer strategy that a killer has that works sometimes in the current meta; at the end, it is gameplay of the killer if he wants to protect the hook or not, not toxic in any way, shape or form. Fortunately for you (and the people complaining endlessly about), it will get nerfed, so the complaints will end soon on the future.
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Me playing killer against a 4 man Meg swf just trying to complete my huntress ritual just today wasn’t even trying to kill just wanted to land my hatchets and some bbq stacks
survivor at the end of the game: why you tunnel me why didn’t you tunnel the other Meg we all have the same cosmetics and wasn’t hard to tell who is who lol you got no kills anyway unalive yourself.
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My thoughts are play however you want as long as it’s within the game rules, no one should ever have to tell you how you should or shouldn’t play.
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Specifically camping and tunnelling remove the PvP component and turn the game into PvE for the survivors that aren't being targeted. Camping also removes the PvP component for the person being targeted, since they can't do anything.
Not everything is survivors being a-holes, seriously.
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Just learn to ignore that.
A lot of survs call everything toxic if they lose.
Play as you want and as you have to.
Here are countless examples in the forum. And even if they don´t like to hear it. I just finished a 4k with Freddy because all want to save the hooked - i could not left the hook even i wanted.
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Ah, no, it really isn't fortunate for me, as I stopped playing the game a few months ago, but am still entertained to see how, no matter the game, it's always those who play the cheap way that defend said way of "playing". Nah, I don't think it will be nerfed, sadly, otherwise this game would incur into the serious issue of actually becoming enjoyable for solos. Following your "logic", even Ddos is fine, because in games that are coded poorly and have no real defense against it, it is allowed. You want a more "part of the game" thing to argue on? Fine. Playing against a full SWF, all with meta perks like DH, DS, BT, flashlights or BnP toolboxes. Sounds like fun, right? But hey, the game allows it, so it is bound to be fine. Oh, and I'll wrap it up with this:
Strategy:
a: a careful plan or method : a clever stratagem
b: the art of devising or employing plans or stratagems toward a goal
As you can see, a strategy is something that requires active thinking and planning. "Me stand still, me wait this guy dead on hook" is not a strategy, but I can understand that using unappropriate terms makes it more fascinating for those who are used to it. ;)
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As long as you're not breaking the game rules, all players should play the game as they want to regardless of what side they play on.
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So you guys still think its fine that your game promotes gameplay on killer side that makes a match annoying for everyone else?
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Yes - a strong killer or only a killer who is better as you might always be annoying.
And what you think is annoying is maybe not everyones opinion.
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No person is above the survivor's rulebook for killers. Even not the devs and mods of BHVR. Shame on you. How dare you?
To be fair. I am equally insulted for my playstyle (survivor and killer). But I don't really take it seriously.
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It has absolutely nothing to do with a strong killer or a killer being better.
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At the end of the day it's the players own enjoyment. Both sides get called toxic for using a certain gameplay style that the other side doesn't like or bringing in perks that they think are op or broken cough cough circle of healing and noed.
It's not a mandatory rule that you have to put the other sides enjoyment first, yes it's nice if it's a match where the killers doesn't camp, or survivors don't farm, again all valid ways to play and can be fun for some people.
This mentality that you have to play a certain way and not camp or tunnel is just out dated. If you have fun with it go ahead because there will always be another match at the end of the day.
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Everyone gets called toxic no matter what they do. Toxic is used so much these days it has lost it's meaning.
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Got a few annoying killers today in my games.
Got tunneled and soft camped. It is not nice. Be angry for a moment and go on.
Also my MMR needs its balance - that is kinda annoying. If i got like 4 games where i escaped i can be sure i get some god killers next and lose some.
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I try to avoid camping and tunneling as much as I can. I mean I don't ignore the unhooked sitting there like a duck healing and if I happen to just follow scratch marks and fate wanted me to find you instead of the unhooker well I'm not gonna turn around wasting time. The thing that bugs me. The most is in every game there comes the moment where leaving the hook is just the worst thing you can do. That's mostly in endgame but I get screamed at in t post chat like hell.
The moment I stopped caring about all this was when I bought the gunslinger not so long befor his nerv and was playing my very first game two lvl 2 perks and not a single clue about him. I got the most classic bully squat ever my first one at that time. Two tool boxes two flashlights and two sabotage perks and you bet your cheeks every time I got a down three people where there to make sure that this isn't going to be a hook. They took there time with the last gen at 99 and had as much fun as they could have and when they finally decide to leave I got my first nice shot and noed got him down and I somehow got him on a hook and I fought for that hook like hell. I got the kill and the post chat was the worst I've ever seen in any game. It doesn't freaking matter how good the game goes for them or what perks you use or what you do most survs will scream bloody murder when they don't get out even tho they had the best game ever and just died cause they where cocky af
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It isn’t toxic to play to win. Some survivors seem to think the killer owes them a fun game/it’s the killer’s job to ensure the survivors have fun. Yet, survivors have no problem ruining the killer’s fun. Sure, the killer can still play, but if the fun is sucked out, does it matter? It is not the killer’s job to make the game fun for you, that’s on you and your teammates. Some killers actively try to make the game more fun and that’s great, but they don’t have to and it isn’t toxic if they decide to play optimally instead. It‘s just such an entitled mindset. You are not owed free escapes, loops, gens, etc. The idea that playing optimally is toxic is just ridiculous imo and completely misunderstands what toxicity actually is. Optimal play can be annoying and unfun, but it isn’t toxic.
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That's not what they are trying to imply with that post I don't think. If something is super unfun then the solution is to fix it by changing the game.
A good example of this how the RPD library had hooks added due to Boil Over (I know you are talking about Killers playing in a way that is unfun for Survivors but the argument holds for both roles). There were 3 options:
- do nothing
- change the rules / add an exception to the rules and make going to that spot with Boil Over bannable
- fix the map so this is no longer possible
Doing nothing when something is super unfun for some players is obviously a bad choice. Changing the rules or adding exceptions / making certain actions bannable creates an administrative nightmare eventually.
The problem is really that there are a lot of issues that haven't been fixed for years, but that doesn't necessarily mean that these things are fine.
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Has anyone legitimately seen a killer have a sense of entitlement and expect the survivors to just roll over and die for them?
Because I haven't seen someone who's seriously had this thought, in 2500 hours. Yet, it's not uncommon to see a bunch of survivors every once in a while tell me that I'm a piece of crap for killing them.
Survivors are more entitled, let's be real.
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I say, play how you would like to verse.
If you really have no problems facing some unfun tactics, then by all means use them.
But, if you dislike when something is done to you, then why do it to someone else? 🤔
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Camping the first surv or tunneling him it’s the same as if the hatch appears open at the begging and only 1 surv could escape when he wants. You ensure 1 escape but you let 3 other survs alone to do the 5 gens and probably lose (same as the killer letting the survs do gens while camping and tunneling). Buts killers here think it’s ok
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Absolutely.
One thing you'll find that is that many times the "losing" side will often engineer a reason to justify their annoyance, often engaging in impressive feats of mental gymnastics to do so, but the heart of the annoyance is that they can't accept the notion that the other side just played better. They didn't get their validation and want to make that someone else's fault.
It's human nature to try to make excuses and displace blame when we lose, feel humiliated, etc., but be self-aware. Getting owned feels bad, man. But that doesn't make the person who owned you somehow wrong.
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"Do unto others" may be the optimal way to approach life (it's the way I try to play), but expecting everyone else to do so is setting yourself up for feeling anger and disappointment.
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I'd say both get #$@& on about the same, habe you seen how much hate tunneling camping or noed and devour get? Then again the second a survivor uses ds ub its a irreparable sin so i get where ure coming from
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I agree, I am not entitled to free escapes or hatches. But I am entitled to HAVING THE CHANCE TO PLAY. Which is why camping shouldn't be allowed. Because, you know, the game is bought, not given for free. Unless, of course, you'd find it fair if survivors would have the ability of completely denying the killer any movement and hits. Not to mention that why does a killer camp? Because he thinks he is entitled to get kills, otherwise he wouldn't really need to resort to cheap stuff. Oh, by the way, playing to win isn't related to being a noob and doing noob things. Even those who use macros/cronus on online shooter games are doing it to win, yet it doesn't mean they aren't being toxic or unfair. Words have precise meanings, and you can only try to fool people who don't actually know said meanings.
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I see where you are coming from, but play enough and the law of averages will take hold; for every time you are face camped, there will be a time one of your teammates is camped and you're essentially ignored by the killer for a good portion of the match. And full on camping doesn't happen every match, or even close to.
I am no fan of face camping, to say the least, but if we can take a step back from these single experiences and view them in context, it isn't so bad.
That said, the one part of the current meta that makes it harder to swallow are the often insane surv queue times. No one wants to spend 10 minutes in queue and then be bounced from the match in 3. But that isn't the killer's fault.
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Well, to be fair there are several gameplay styles for the survivor side that makes the match annoying for everyone else too.
Yet these are the most efficient ways to go out as fast as possible.
The issue here is to mitigate fast gens and the considerable advantage tunneling and camping are.
The number of hooks, the number of chases, the proximity to the killer, ... all this should be promoted against kills and getting out.
At the moment I'm playing various killers with experiments in mind. I'm often pitted against survivors who are clearly too green for me and only do one or two hooks and smack them so they can be healed and get out. Since I can push them without much trouble, the game lasts and I'm getting almost as much points as if I killed them all. They get a lot of points too. This is way more fun than when I'm against rushers who end the game in about 5 minutes with scores around the 10K for everyone.
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Well, no, queue times are another wholly different thing, but still one of the things that plague this game. And sure, I agree with you, even other players will be facecamped, sometimes before me. But I am no hypocrite, and I don't like that even when it happens to others. Plus, even when that is happening to others and not me, there is still at least one part of the game that is being denied to me, which is the chase and (maybe) an escape from said chase. It sadly doesn't work either way. And the worst part is that, at the current state, it's hard to fix the game in a way that makes it fair for both sides.
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No, you are right.
You can't expect it from others. And I respect everyone's right to play as they like.
It's just how I approach the game.
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I hate tunneling to but survivors are able to stop you playing to. Since the blessing of mmr it happens more and more you get players that are way over your skill level and they love to 99 the last gen and then play with you preventing every hook. Sure I can still move but at that point it wouldn't make a difference if I go afk or hang from an hook
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Honestly both sides get called toxic twats if they play to win. The forums are a perfect example of it, I feel bad for survivor mains on here lol. If you want to win, just play to win and ignore what people say lol the objective of the game is to win, it is up to the player to decide if they want to play more casually or not.
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