What are the devs ideas on reducing grind?
They shoot down anything the community puts forth, so I'm curious as to what the devs consider? Rank reset is a patch job, at best. Even if you have the time to get to Iri 1, two million won't get you far on a single character, especially if you have progress in others. Bloodhunts are rare and far between. Anniversary event is once a year, so cakes are again, rare. Halloween events don't do much.
I finally got a friend into the game due to the free weekend, and he's already considering backing out because of how daunting the grind is. It's an incredible amount of time to invest, especially with such a faulty MMR system in place.
So, what's the plan?
Comments
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Why would they reduce anything that encourages people to play more from their perspective?
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They've done it multiple times.
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I don't think rank reset goals were supposed to be a solution to the grind, I think they're supposed to be the game's progression system to give you a reason to care about grades.
As for what their ideas are, I don't think we've been given any examples just yet.
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I guess they see it as something that encourages people to play more. But I have a feeling more people are put off by the grind entirely or play in spite of it. The player retention from the Resident Evil bump looks laughable
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Removing Perk Tiers would be a great addition.
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Not much, just anything that reduces the grind right now is only a short-sighted fix that will still need to be addressed later.
Wait, what?
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People's playtime doesn't benefit them at all (which is why protests where people stop playing are useless), people buying stuff with actual money does.
And even if it did, I would bet the grind discourages people from playing as much as it encourages it. The state of the grind makes the game feel inaccessible to many, especially newcomers.
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The grind absolutely turns off new players. I had some friends buy the game the same time I did. They all played it for a bit, but lost interest quickly because of how stupidly insane the grind is. They didn’t even bother logging in for free daily BP when those were offered because they’re like “what’s the point?” Luckily I found a few others who still play the game that I can join for SWF when I play survivor. Even I have gotten to the point where if I take a break and don’t play DbD for a while, I feel like I’ve fallen a mile behind because of the ridiculous number of perks now. And if I ever want to play a new character, I have to go through the slog of pumping millions of BP mostly into useless add-ons, offerings and junk meme perks just to get the perks I want on that character.
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They explicitly stated it's supposed to ameliorate the grind to a degree.
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Didn't they say the exact opposite in the last QnA? I might be mixing that up with a different bloodpoints thing, but I'm pretty sure they explicitly said rank reset rewards were not intended as a grind solution.
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They did not say it was a solution, but that they hoped it would be helpful. Peanits says it, I believe.
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Copy&paste of a post I put in other thread a few days ago.
- - Doubling the BP earned by every score event in the game and raising the cap to 64k BP every match.
- - Bloodhunts every weekend.
- - Daily quests 50k each and 100k the mori ones.
- - Doubling the tome BP rewards.
- - 4 perks in every bloodweb from level 1, 8 from level 50 and ahead. Removing the feature of the entity consuming one perk when you select other.
- - Becoming the Party Streamers a yellow rarity offering, remove the brown BP bonus oferings and becoming the current yellow ones in brown ones except maybe Escape Cake and Survivor Pudding. The green ones related to a only one category now give 150% BP bonus.
If the proficency of ultrarrare and very rare addons become a problem due the increased economy just double the BP required for them.
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I would also separate the daily quest into two sections. 3 for survivor and 3 for killer. 6 in total
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Remove perk tiers! It's quick, it's simple, and any alleged downsides of doing so have been massively overstated. Besides that, there was an idea that a double bp event could happen every weekend. I've had an idea that we get to choose 1 or 2 things that we never want to see show up in the bloodweb, so we get more of what we want and less of what we're never gonna use. Sadly, none of these ideas will be adopted.
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They literally could just remove perk tiers and the grind would be fine for years.
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they were gonna rework the prestige system
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The "removing perk tiers is not a long term solution" is BS. It would take around 5 years to reach the current levels of grind (from the perspective of a new player).
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It would be as easy as adding a chance to get tier II and III perks without having tier 1
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You mean less.
No new player will look at how meager his points are after a match and then look at all the grind thats in front of him and think "oh great! I feel motivated to play more".
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And then they make it something strange instead, like increasing the BP cap with each prestige
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they haven't shared any ideas but perk tiers need to go or raise the BP cap to 2 million.
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They are not fixing it on purpose.
They use this insane grind to lure people to play during "double-bloodpoint" events, to make people to log in and use Bloodpoints promo codes, to make people play for rank rewards. Also if they ever add some sort of role incentives/rewards they will pay for it probably with Bloodpoints.
If the grind gets lower, Bloodpoints will become less valuable and they can't use the above mentioned "techniques".
But of course IMO they are destroying the player base with this, new players will be less likely to stay with such huge grind in the game.
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I can picture bhvr going full EA mode and add even more microtransactions.
"You can play for hundreds of hours and hope your bloodweb gives you DS. Or you can pay us $4 and unlock it now" /fine print"does not remain if you prestige"
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They said on the last joke, sorry i mean Q&A stream that they wont, for some reason. This alone makes me believe they barely care about how grindy the game is.
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Some very easy solutions to implement would help a lot:
- Remove perk tiers
- Trade-in system to sell your existing items/offerings (maybe get back like 1/3 of original BP cost or something like that). So many BP get spent on useless add-ons and offerings
- alternative to #2 - eliminate the least-used add-ons and offerings
Unfortunately, I don’t think the devs actually want to reduce the grind. They’ve acknowledged that they know it sucks and is a point of frustration for some players, so it’s a known issue and they’ve chosen not to do anything about it.
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Their idea must be really damn good if permanently reducing all current and future grind by 2/3 isn't good enough for them
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We did not. In fact, we've said the exact opposite: We do not consider it a fix to the grind in the slightest, it's an improvement to grade rewards, nothing else.
I can also confirm that we don't see it as something that encourages people to play more. A certain amount of grinding, sure, it can give you a goal to work towards and keep you interested. But if it becomes too much, then the goal feels unattainable and you lose interest in trying to achieve it.
To the original topic: It's too early to share details now, but we have a massive grind reduction in the works. I'm looking forward to the day we're finally able to share it with everyone.
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great. hopefully it's soon
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That's good news,I cant wait for it,on another topic,is it also true that an anti camping mechanic is being in the works?
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This is seriously so wrong if they are thinking people are playing because of grind makes them play. I am not playing half of killers, actually more than half. Why? Because i have not perks on them and i don't wanna grind. And i already bored the killers i am already playing. I am sure most people who did not max all characters are bored for same reason.
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That's good to hear you guys have something in mind hoping we get more news soon :)
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I don't understand why you can't just tell us what the idea is when it would garner so much good will.
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Should I continue to P3 all of my Killers, and unlock all the perks on all the Killers?
I wouldn't want to waste the time doing all that work for ya's to do something like "Oh we removed perk levels, but don't worry here is a measly 1m bp to make up for it" like it was with the Bubba masks and other times things got removed. Alot of work goes into unlocking content, and then just to have it removed for just a 6k iri - like dang, didn't know I put that much work into getting something so little. Like something is better than nothing, but right now if I know that something "big" is coming to deal with the grind, I don't want to waste a lot of effort getting p3 and full perks on all the Killers just to get slapped in the face. Though I also don't want to just put it off if finishing it now would be better lol
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That would be fantastic if this is true. Thanks for sharing and looking forward to seeing what it is!
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Everyone is looking forward to this day! We have been looking forward to it for months, probably years! We all know it is here Soon™!
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I just hope it worths to wait. And hope soon.
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They added SBMM, that made people play less, so they did in the past.
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I wonder if new exclusive prestige rewards will be a thing (to those who prestiged before the grind cut). I'd miss out on them because I haven't prestiged anyone and don't want to lose old offerings and items. But, I wonder if there will be.
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There's not really a simple answer to this, but we've learned from the past to not overpromise too early. There's always a risk something gets pushed or cut back, and then you end up with a lot of understandably upset people. Even if you try to make it as clear as possible that something is subject to change, there's bound to be a game of broken telephone where someone tells their friend, but doesn't mention the specifics, and then they tell their friends, etc. Now their friend is expecting it in the next update because that detail was left out, and so are all of their friends, etc. Even earlier in this thread there were some misconceptions of what we've said in the past. (No shade, we don't expect everyone to memorize what we've said word for word, that's not realistic.)
Beyond that, game development is way more complex than it seems, and things are always at risk of being pushed back. We plan our updates many months in advance to prepare as best we can, but unexpected things can cause a domino effect that affect future updates. So, we try not to go into too much detail until something is close. That way we have a better idea of what's at risk of getting cut before getting people's hopes up.
Basically, while it's already on our minds, it's still too early to spill all the beans and get everyone's hopes up. I love sharing details on things like this, but what I don't love is disappointing many people for months until it finally appears in the game.
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The grind in this game is unbearable due to the fact that you're entirely at the mercy of the bloodweb RNG. There needs to be a reliable way to unlock some perks on certain killers without forcing us to spend possibly several millions of bp just to get a single tier of a much needed meta perk. For instance I haven't seen BBQ on Pinhead throughout the 150 levels I had to put into him to get him to p3, that's how bad the bloodweb is.
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Soon™ as usual huh
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Thing is people, or at least me, are already disappointed on how you (haven't) handled the grind so far until now
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You have content creators that can bring such words out there in a very good way.
What if you give them a "script" like "hey, listen {name} you are a Fog-whisperer, you can tell them about stuff we test but are not finished and may not come to the game at all"
almost like it is done with product placement. I get my main information from youtube videos and then look deeper into it. Of course, there is a ton of misinformation and misquoting, and I TOTALLY understand the problems that pull through that.
But what I can see is this problem of people wanting some information like the icons you teased, where you said "oi, that's what we had in mind, it may be never done" Ofc I met people who said "oh they do this" and I told them "yeah but they also said it may never get released.
Clear information is the best way to keep trust, and the community is awesome, from the concept trailers to art to funny videos to insane stuff all over the place. But there's also this angry side that is sad because the game can be frustrating, the majority never had to do anything with game development, maybe saw some indi-vlog or a tutorial on youtube, but ofc that is just a small portion that feeds into the Dunning Kruger effect.
When content creator A says "Ey they put me in a lobby with hackers to punish me" then suddenly the forum would be full of people claiming they have proof it happened to them too. I mean that happened. And it shows that clear communication would eliminate such things.
Player numbers are a big one. "oh declining..." but we only can see so far, and no one looks in the specific data, or how the numbers are made except "ay fewer numbers so bad".
What annoyed me personally about the last Q&A was this problem of feeling disconnected from the information, if an answer is "yeah we do something but we don't talk about it... why take the question in the first place? Of course, I understand the concept of "We hear you, we know what you want".
It makes me feel like there is this whole problem of "We would feel bad if we leak something and then it turns out to be wrong" but the same happens every day, with people guessing the next killer, and then it is... not him... You didn't promise anything, you didn't show anything directly, but everyone understands it's supposed to be like that... a puzzle, a hype...
When we take this formula and would apply it to features that are thought of, especially ideas that are already in the bin, why not share it?
"Hey we had this crazy idea of putting this flying monster in that grows and eats survivors but we scratched it because it was too broken and surely not healthy" Maybe even with a recording of a blob of grey mass with broken animations as a video... stuff like that.
These are things that would connect directly to the forums, youtube, social media in general, and most important the community.
I hear people say "Ay they only do this for that" and there are people who agree. If it's a lie or not, direct communication about such stuff would help immensely. Not eliminate it, but surely help...
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Because it no longer encourages people to play, especially the newcomers, a friend of mine tried the free weekend but he saw all the blocked content and the bloodweb thing and decided he didnt have enough time for this game.
A bit of grinding is ok, it feels like a reward when you achieve wathever you are after but in this game grinding has grown into a massive monster.
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Possibly they haven't even started working on it, they just have a rough idea how to reduce the grind... Which means it is probably not coming for another year.
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I really hop it is a good solution.
But there is this matchmaking thing where they worked about two years on - and the solution is not what was expected.
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Not to mention the aura reading effect for Pinhead with BBQ is really useful.
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why can't you share info now on it? instead of like waiting till you show it up and we all complain about it and you launch it anyway even with all our negative feedback like it is now for sbmm? tell us what you are working on so you have early feedback
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The real grind is waiting for the update to reduce the grind
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Ooof. I rarely get got that hard.
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