Are we banning for gen control doc builds now?
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See, that would be an example of holding the game hostage on their part. I hope you reported them. Many survivors just keep playing even though they claim to want to be hooked.
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A few months ago we had a survivor streamer with a full SWF squad playing against a doctor.
Doctor played 3 gen strat and they called it taking the game hostage.
Match took 1 hour, during which the killer didn't fail for bait. He didn't let himself drag away but tried to down and hook survivors.
Those survivors held the game as much hostage as the killer did. No one wanted to give in.
In the end, the killer let them do the gens, to end this. But the survivors wouldn't leave. They stayed another 10 minutes at the exit.
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He slugged me or out right ignored me because he told me, "I had to check on generators or else I would lose."
I eventually bleed-out within 2 hours, but I probably should've DC'd when it was taking way too long.
Edit: You knew what ticked me off even more? One of my teammates had a key and didn't use it until the very very last second >:(
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Supposedly in certain situations the last 3 gens can all be hit with a single charge of Doctor's power, making it literally impossible to do anything.
In this case I would agree. But I would also like to see this myself because it sounds like a problematic situation.
But your example pretty much shows why this is a fringe case. If he is actually trying to hit people, the game could go on forever, that isn't an issue.
My problem is I'm worried a legitimate player could get banned because of this. It could be several minutes before the opportunity to get a hit even arises.
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That is 100% holding hostage, u need to down survivors, slug or hook them to be consider not griefing
if you only hit them once then refuse to chase them and stall the game for 30 min, do ppl really try to defend this???
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If you hit them and they are too far away, continuing the chase could result in a gen Completion. You could use hitting someone as bait to fool the other survivors into thinking they can complete a gen, and get a cheeky down very quickly.
Isn't that what Survivors used to tell Killers to do to stop genrushing anyway? "Just break the chase and patrol."
As I said, the margin for error on a 3gen strategy is pretty much 0. The smallest error from either side will result in a loss.
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If he's intentionally not killing people and acting to permanently stall the game, then I can see it being considered hostage holding.
You said this was recorded on stream, right? We can see his behavior, so I don't get why people are arguing over this.
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We can see it if we actually get a link to the video.
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Calling someone idiot really proves your point.
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Pls... This is why I don't play this game as much anymore. The community turns this game into a piece of ######### & yes I might of said this or that every now and then. But I stop caring a long time ago.
But whatever you guys can keep arguing whos side is op and ######### all you want.
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This to me sounds like it's dealing with similar issues as a Hatch stand-off. Obviously some differences between them, but that seems like a problem to me.
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So a Killer is griefing if he plays one of his objectives (Stopping gens) instead of actively trying to lose by chasing a Survivor it will take 45-60 seconds to down?
What? Killers are supposed to hand Survivors the game now? 'Sorry the last few gens are so close together. I'll walk away so you can win or I get in trouble'?
By that logic (Killer should have chased, even if it made him lose), I can claim the Survivors were griefing by not letting themselves be downed. They could have rushed the gens, and were holding the game hostage by not playing their objective, even if it made them lose.
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This whole conversation is a red herring as the killer in question was actually downing and hooking people in the background while the streamer was alt tabbed trying to get in touch with a developer buddy to get him banned.
There were 3 survivors up and three gens to do. Even against doc, if he's not willing to kill you, you can just sit there and do the gens and there is nothing he can do about it. You'll get it done eventually. Or you could just follow him around and let him kill you. If he won't, then sure, he is just trying to draw the game out.
The streamer in question actively avoided the killer, looped him, saved other survivors from dying, unhooked people, in between trying to find someone to ban him "because he was just standing still and not chasing".
This is after intentionally depipping in order to bully bad killers like this guy.
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Oh and the drama starts.
Can we please get a link to the match in question?
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Same:) also it would tell us that the game is survivor friendly:( But I'm hopeful it's not
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Man this is just sad to watch.
What an actual joke.
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Before the Endgame Collapse, survivors werent banned for hiding on the map for 30+ mins. So why should a Doc doing a 3-gen strat (which is winnable with teamwork, btw) be bannable?
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If he is outright refusing to chase you or take hooks even if you give up, then yes it's taking the game hostage.
People saying "JuSt DoN't 3 GeN uRsElVeS" you do realize this is basically impossible on Game map right? Doc with Distressing and Iri King can hold down any combination of 3 gens on that map. Not to mention that he could pick the gens he WANTS to have for 3 gen and protect the crap outta them, forcing you into a a 3 gen even if you had an option to avoid it.
This is part of the reason I hate Doc's. IDGAF if he isn't a very strong killer, the fact he can lock down a game like this is obscene and shouldn't be an option.
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If he doesn't even take the freebies then he is holding the game hostage.
Killers are there to kill, not to stall the game indefinitely.
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What freebies? Chasing obvious bait and letting everyone else work on generators?
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The survivors helped the killer into the 3 gen. At that point either you work the gens or go for hatch, killer doesnt need to chase if they know your forced to put yourself in danger. If it went on that long its clear they were to scared to risk it.
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@Rottimic "As long as the killer is progressing the match in some manner, it's not reportable. "
But this is the exact issue, THE KILLER IS NOT PROGRESSING THE GAME. They are just stalling the game indefinitely. If they are doing this past the 9 minute mark, they aren't even getting emblems point for it. So rather than take the obvious loss, they just make the game last forever. That is taking the game hostage and should be 100% reportable.
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Its not holding the game hostage. You can exit the game without DCing.
Work on gen. Keep working even if Doc approaches. If they grab you off the gen, and drop you right away, congrats you are now on the 4 minutes bleed out timer (letting survivors bleed out is not bannable, by the way). If someone picks you up, keep working on gen and repeat.
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So.... this is a novel, but I want to raise a concern that can effect every player.
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There was this discussion about a Doc holding the game hostage and if that player should be banned for what they did.
Here is the discussion
Here is the match
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/437895713
It starts about 20 minutes in... Goes on for a good 30+ minutes.
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I watched that match... In the discussion thread, I believe in the "players can take things too far and grief people, and that should be bannable." However that match... I don't personally believe that killer was trying to grief those survivors. I believe they just wanted to win so bad... just like how killers slug the 3rd to secure the 4K.
Long match... yes. But that Doc was still chasing and hitting and when downed someone hooked them.
It basically looked to me as they were just try harding to win.
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With that said... I'm just a player and not part of the company in any way. Therefore my judgement on determining if that player should be banned, is not my call. The only thing I could do is, record the match and report the player and follow up with a recording.
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My concern now is, that streamer was calling for that player to be banned 15 minutes before that streamer disconnected.
The streamer was trying to message someone from the company to get that player banned right away.
At what point are Streamers the judge in jury in getting people banned from this game?
At what point did BHVR mention that a Streamer can message one of them directly, to get another player banned WITHOUT following the correct rules of reporting another player and allow for the accused to get due process, to be treated fairly?
I've noticed this before on another streamers channel, where a employee of BHVR is messaged to get someone banned right away.
I can understand some situations can be pretty black and white, where a player is tossing out racial and homophobic slurs in the end game chat.
However, in grey areas such as that match, how come that streamer can pass the judgement that another player should be banned? Immediately?
This is very concerning to me as a long time player.
What are your thoughts on BHVR allowing this situation to happen? What would have happened if that employee was contacted and then banned the killer for playing? Do you think that is fair?
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I don't.
TLDR;
Streamers should be expected to follow the same rules as everyone else. This is what we have been told. I don't think streamers at any point should be judge and jury on YOUR playstyle and ask / expect you to be banned for it.
If a streamer thinks you violated the rules, they SHOULD be expected to follow the same procedures as everyone else and not circumvent them.
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That is my piece.
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Funny how holding the game hostage only applies to doc according to some people right? He is trying to protect the gens but he should give up and chase someone so others can do it right? But survivors shouldn't work on a gen when he is near.
What happens next. Doc is holding the game hostage and not survivors. By what logic?
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What I mean is that if he has an obvious option to catch someone or they just give themselves up but he doesn't take it, only continues to keep them from doing gens then it is holding the game hostage.
I've had Docs do this, where they don't even take chases they could 100% win. They won't even come out of treatment.
Like you really want to defend this kind of BS?
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I don't have time to watch the actual stream right now, but from the original discussion it sounded like the the streamer contacted a BHVR employee who told the streamer to report the player through the in-game reporting system.
There is nothing wrong with a BHVR employee telling a customer to report a player through the system that is designed specifically for that. The problem would come from if that BHVR employee promised the person would get banned. Which I am assuming was not the case, but please correct me if there is evidence in the stream that says otherwise.
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Doc can just shock you and never needs to grab or down you. If they want they can take away any option you have to finish the game, leaving only DC as a way to leave. THAT IS TAKING THE GAME HOSTAGE.
It's honestly sick how people defend this. "Oh no the survivor hide for 30 minutes they should be banned" but then immediately will defend a killer that makes a game last hours because they refuse to chase or kill anyone, even if given the chance.
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I already agreed that your scenario is indeed holding the game hostage (though I still got downvotes, funny how that works). Go back several comments and you'll see.
However, in my admittedly limited experience, what you describe doesn't happen. In my experience, survivors don't let themselves get caught. They keep playing like normal, and then accuse the killer of not letting them win by chasing the obvious bait.
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I watched that clip of the match.
What I stated in my previous posts is about players taking things too far to where it is seen as a problem, like what peanits states as griefing, still holds to my beliefs in this game.
With that said after seeing that match.... I personally don't think that Doc players was doing anything but playing to win. That match took awhile, but it wasn't, in my view a "hostage" situation.
I think what is shown in that clip raises another issue that the community should be concerned about...
How come she can message a BHVR employee directly to get someone banned right away? Why is she allowed to circumvent the reporting process?
I don't think that is fair when we are told streamers and fog whispers are kept to the same standard of rules like everyone else.
Why are they allowed to be the judge and jury on you being banned?
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I have nothing against the streamer, as I've seen that "report" techniques used in other streams.
I personally think that action from the streamer crossed the line and should not be allowed. As a long time player I feel everyone in this game should be treated the same.
Streamers should be following the same process as everyone else.
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You should ping Peanits or Not_Queen if you want a proper response from a community manager.
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This is not holding the game hostage.
If he just kick the gens, then just repair them.
Snap out of it and repair.
You have 3 other teammates.
If he dont attack, just repair.
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It's rare but it does indeed happen. I've had Docs hold a game hostage for up to 40 minutes. They won't commit to a single chase they just stay in treatment mode and shock you to put you in Madness 3.
"They keep playing like normal, and then accuse the killer of not letting them win by chasing the obvious bait."
When everyone is in Madness 3 the killer can afford to take a chase. In the clip, at the end of the game, almost all the pallets on the map were gone. There were 3 survivors left. He could EASILY go after one of them, but he doesn't.
There is a difference between ignoring bait and refusing to chase at all.
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To clear this up: There is never any circumstance in which a report is not reviewed before it is dealt with. It doesn't matter who reported it, all reports are given to the ACM team and are then reviewed before any action is taken.
Fog Whisperer's do have direct line of contact with us, but any players they report to us are then given to the ACMs and handled like any other report. They must follow all the same rules as anyone else when reporting someone (for example, they must report them in-game).
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"JUST SNAP OUT OF IT AND REPAIR"
You realize this isn't an option? You take 20s to snap out, attempt to repair and get put right back into Madness 3.
It's obvious the people defending this have never actually played against it.
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Thanks for clarifying. Yes, in said stream where said fog whisperer was playing against this doctor, they weren't hitting, downing, chasing etc. They were staying by the same 3 generators (on The Game), in treatment mode, shocking over and over. Making no attempt to down survivors, just shock them as they tried to do the generators. It went on for nearly 40 minutes.
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If Doc just keep shocking you, preventing you from working on one gen, your other survivors are free to work on the other generators. So I dont know what you are trying to say here.
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Fog whisperer or not even if they were to contact behavior directly they still have to report the player in game even if a mod from behavior reviewed the video it would be up to the mod to decide if its holding the game hostage or not it all comes down to the situation and the rules that are in place and what actually counts as holding the game hostage.
Based on what ive seen from rewatching this video the doctor is fine i dont think a punishment will be thrown out and if it is i honestly hate to say it but thats the danger of this playstyle is that it can indeed get you banned if you dont understand the thin line that is there but i will also say it is kinda on the survivors the gen placement was also really good for him to patrol but also granted it is the game the whole map is kinda bad for both sides.
As far as people being able to contact behavior i dont mind this for streamers they are technically working they dont have time to take 20 minutes to go through the application process to report one person i dont mind this being a thing as long as the case is treated like a normal report function and is handled the same which is both sides are treated the same and someones viewer count is not held to a higher standard than a player of the game as long as the mods are following that i dont see a issue with this being a thing.
Example streamer A was playing a game as survivor and streamer b was killer with hacked items and legacy i dont mind streamer A contacting someone directly in their chat to investigate streamer B ive seen this happen and it turned out the guy had fake legacy hacked addons hacked bloodpoint i mean this streamer b admitted to it on stream yes this actually happened and it was a yikes.
The mod who investigated it i can confirm went through the process to find out if the claims were correct which they were im sure that same mod followed the rules placed in front of them by behavior just because a mod is not technically working does not mean they cant do their job as a mod just saying.
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That would be true, on any other map that isn't The Game, where he can shock everyone within 15 seconds distance of each other. Which is about how long it takes to snap out of madness tier 3. Every survivor was trying to do a generator, but he just kept walking and shocking. It is absolutely taking the game hostage, and not winnable in any reasonable way.
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Since the link has been posted, everyone can now see that this is a lie.
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@jimmy5577 If they started banning streamers for bragging about things they didn't do, 90% of all streamers would be banned.
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It only takes 12 seconds to Snap Out of It, but I guess telling the truth isn't as fun as exaggerating
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Lmao doctor with this build is so easy to beat, it literally takes 2 people who are not absolute potatoes. If you are alone then you take hatch. Quit your whining, Doctor is already underpowered as heck.
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agree completely. i don't understand how this streamer became a fog whisperer by dc'ing against spirits. about the 3 gen doctor those devs are the same devs who made legion get pallet looped in ff
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Thank you for clearing this up :P
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