Best Of

(I was going to make my own post about the system overall, but given there's a dedicated thread for feedback, it seems sensible to just paste it in here. Apologies for any weird formatting as a result).

Why I think this system is needed:

The diminishing returns systems is one of the best ideas the game has ever pursued, and is absolutely necessary to the game's long-term health. Naturally, a lot of players are going to be upset that some popular combinations are going to be weaker, but it's a necessary evil in order to prevent extreme scenarios and streamline the process of creating new perks/powers.

For those against the idea, I'd like you to consider the amount of high-profile instances of "over" synergizing and bottlenecking that DbD has had (and continues to have) in recent history (for both Killers AND Survivors):

Nurse and aura-reading perks; Blight and pallet density, and map design as a whole; MFT + Hope; Power of Two + Blood Pact + other Haste sources; Clown and Haste in general; Legion + 6.1.0 Thanatophobia + Dying Light; Call of Brine + Overcharge; Boon: Circle of Healing + other healing perks in general when it released; Vigil + Exhaustion perks; Singularity + Haywire; various Killers + 8.4.0 Thrill of the Hunt; Knotted Rope + Save the Best for Last on Houndmaster's PTB; various passive Survivor healing perks; various passive Surivor repair speed bonus perks; Skill Check bonus perks; the list just goes on and on…

The diminishing returns system provides a framework for tuning down interactions that have the potential to push certain status effects and action speeds into game-breaking territory. Of course, it doesn't cover all of the aforementioned examples, but it's a good start that covers a lot of them. With DbD being 10 years old now, and having such a huge number of perks and powers, it's no longer feasible to manually account for every possible interaction. Which is why we keep seeing so many of these crop up, and developer time ending up wasted reverting changes that would've been okay if it weren't for unforeseen the stacking/synergy.

Stacking is also stifling modern perk design. Take Road Life for instance — one of the strongest healing speed modifiers in the game held back by a convoluted activation requirement. The logical way to make this perk decent, would be to lower the activation requirement. But in the current ecosystem of the game, that can't happen. Heal speeds can already stack to be very quick, and an easy-to-activate +100% on top would just be untenable. The only way we can see perks like this be made decent, is to impose a limit on stacking.

Why I think this system is fair for both roles:

Some are claiming that the concept is "one-sided", and that Survivors will be more affected than Killers due to certain popular Killer perks not working via action speed modifiers in the way Survivor perks often do. To which I have to say, that these exceptions are already accounted for via a diminishing returns-esque system: the generator kick limit. Having two separate systems affect the usage of perks that work via instant applied damage would be unnecessarily restrictive and convoluted. Instead, any problematic combinations of Killer slowdown would be better addressed by fine tuning the pre-existing system.

Not to mention that with the bulk of problematic combinations dealt with automatically by diminishing returns, time can be better used addressing some the game's more complex balance issues, oversynergies, and bottlenecks. N.B. that Blight and Nurse are soon to be receiving long-awaited nerfs.

I've seen some arugments that the system is also "anti-fun" for weakening certain, admittedly fun, builds like being able to outrun the Killer with Blood Pact + Power of Two (+ optional further Haste effects). Don't get me wrong, some of these builds are enjoyable to use, but they also destroy the balance and integrity of the match for the other side that has to be subjected to them. This leads to bigger issues down the road, like queue imbalances, the frustrations of which far outweigh the "fun" of the build. Many PvP games employ behind-the-scenes caps, dimishing returns, or other mechanics to keep the experience fair for everyone — and DbD needs to do the same to ensure its longevity (even if that means some "niche" or "fun" builds get hurt).

The numbers:

The current framework is good, but the numbers are perhaps overly punishing when only two of the same perk type are in play (especially when both modifiers are relatively small). Personally, I think pairing up two synergistic perks together is reasonable and — in most circumstances — doesn't cause issues. Haste/Hindered would be my exception to this, as even small values can have profound effects, but for regular action speed modifiers, I think it would be fair to tweak the numbers so that players are allowed to receive more of the second modifider.

In other words, change: 100 → 50 → 25 → 12.5 → 5 to 100 → 75 → 25 → 12.5 → 5 (or some number in between).

Alternatively, I think the system could be changed to only kick in once a certain threshold has been reached. This prevents smaller modifiers from being unjustly hit. For example, if you had 1 stack of Desperate Measures (+20%), and an instance of Resilience (+9%) — does the 9% really need to be diminished considering the combined bonus isn't exceptional? I think maybe not.

Perhaps diminishing returns should only apply when a combined threshold is reached. 30? 50? 100? I'm not sure exactly where that value would lie, but it's probably worth exploring to preserve the value of combining perks with lesser modifiers.

Further considerations:

As mentioned earlier, there are various things not considered by the current system, that maybe should be. The proliferation of perks that grant bonuses based upon Skill Checks comes to mind as something causing balance issues in the live game that isn't covered here. The "bonus" granted for hitting Great Skill Checks should probably be affected by diminishing returns to prevent solo Generators being completed in 30 seconds with Stake Out + Hyperfocus. Neither perk seems egregious enough alone to warrant a nerf, but combined they're absolutely troublesome.

RE: "It won't shake up the meta"

I'm not really sure where this idea is coming from that diminishing returns is supposed to overhaul the current meta. While the system will surely adjust the relative value of some popular perk combinations, it won't — and was never intended to — change the current meta of the game. Much of the feedback this system is getting on social media and here on the forums is a criticism of the fact that the meta overall is unchanged. Which seems unfair to me, given that the system is being judged over something it was never intended to do.