These killers deserve a nerf after Spirit!?!
Freddy-
Freddy has no counter-play for any of his powers. You cannot interact with any of his powers in order to give Survivors a way to counter his abilities. When Freddy uses his dream snares he has no cool down or slowdown when putting them down. This almost always guarantees a free hit or down when trying to loop him. Also if you choose o disable the snares he gets a notification and can put them down again immediately. Then with his Dream Pallets, survivors can put them down, although similar to his snares he can put them back up almost immediately. While as a survivor you can remember where real pallets are, this is a unrealistic expectation for an entire team to do. Ways to provide counter play for survivors would be to give a cool down on his abilities for 20 seconds for each use. Also for his teleport make to so he has to commit to teleporting it and can't cancel it, giving survivors more options for counter-play. Another option for counter-play would be taking out the timer for the dream state and make Freddy have to manually put survivors into it. This would give survivors ways to counter his Swing Chains add-ons. Also a small quality of life change would be when survivors are put into the dream state and miss skill checks to wake themselves up, Freddy doesn't gain a notification, this would give survivor play styles more options for counter-play while still punishing them for failing.
Ghostface-
Ghostface and his Night Shroud ability is one of the best stealth abilities in the game, with no down sides. He has power creeped almost every other stealth killer in the game. He also has no down side when being broken out of his ability. Also with the broken reveal mechanic with his power when he leans around a corner makes him uncounterable. Ways to give survivors a counter to his power would be to make the reveal mechanic actually work when a survivor looks at him. Also since he has no warning before he strikes unlike Wraith they should either give Ghostface a warning sound or something before he attacks or give him 110% movement speed. Also another quality of life change would to give his addons that give his power a faster recharge rate a slight nerf.
What do you guys think?
Comments
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Want killers weps removed too?
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@HeHeBoii This is for the sake of the game. It is unhealthy for killers like this to be uncounterable. Also will help the clear imbalance when it comes to Killers V. Survivors. These two are way to strong as of right now. tbh they need to nerf Spirit again before these though.
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So since the two best got nerfed you want to nerf two more strong killers do all you want in high ranks is hillbilly because almost no other killer can compare to a swf three gens in under two minutes besides those killers
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Sounds like u arenโt good facing decent killers.
So u cry nerf...understandable
so answer, want killers weps removed aswell?
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@Murcielago Gens can't be completed in 2 mins if a killer just applies pressure to the gens 4head.
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I have to disagree with almost all of this... maybe give freddy a slight movement speed penalty when dropping snares and pallets (similar to oni picking up blood). Other than that Freddy is pretty good.
Making his power commit to teleporting takes all the mind game out of the power... so no.
So you want old Freddy back (putting each survivor asleep personally) it is now to easy to wake up and most of the time it's not worth the effort to do so unless your close to the clock. (Getting hooked, miss a skill check, find a friend and clock)
I understand forever freddy is annoying. You just have to work through it and use teammates or clocks to wake yourself up... other than that he can be looped like any other killer. Also change your build up I love losing killers with quick and quiet, lithe and dance with me, using LOS blockers.
Now ghostface.
I agree breaking him put of his power should be more smooth. There are times that I can't break him out for nothing and others when I continue ans succeed to break him out while he is behind a wall.
I dont think he should be made 110% movement speed... those kind of killers aren't fun. I understand the reason for the ones we have.. they all have ways to move faster (through abilities like spirit or teleporting like hag) or can hit you at a distance like huntress.
I dont think it's a good idea for any killer to have base movement speed of 110 and not have something strong to make up for it.
The down side of GF getting broke out is his power is on a cooldown and he can't stalk you till it comes back. Also of course he gets his red stain and TR back.
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Please be more original with your bait. These stopped being funny ages ago.
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Freddy counterplay:
- being awake
- map awareness (for pallets)
- not repeating the same loop over and over (snares)
- normal looping
Ghostface counterplay:
- map awareness
- normal looping
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@HeHeBoii Im actually a rank 1 survivor. While I have beat these killers in the past its very boring as survivor playing against these killers with no counter. Its why Spirit and Nurse got nerfed and why they will nerf these killers as well.
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JUSt ApPLY PrEsSuRe 4hEad
yea good job trying to troll tho
cute attempt. Looking for that attention huh. Must not be used to losing. Itโs ok u will just need to git gud mate (;
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So your solution is either never chase a survivor and patrol gens only or chase four survivors at once nice bait
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Can't loop an anti-loop Killer? Wow, I'm shocked
Ghostface has no downsides? Hmm, pretty sure getting broken out of his only ability is a downside. Also it is very easy to break him out of his power, if you need tips then look up Entity Education on Youtube, he shows you exactly how breaking him out works and what you need to do in order to do it, the answer might surprise you.
Also, why isn't Hillbilly on this list?
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What u find fun or not DOESNT constitute anything for everyone else and sure as hell doesnโt justify nerfs for these killers that are decent. Sounds like u legit are just looking to annoy people requesting nerfs left and right. Whatโs next u want the clown to have 1 bottle?
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Also devs said they're not touching Ghostface
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Freddy is an M1 Killer so long as you aren't asleep. He can still be looped, Small Game and Spine Chill are great against him.
As for GhostFace, you can disable his power by looking at him. That's extremely powerful.
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Ghost face needs to have a slower recovery when a surivior is staring at him (instead of instantly ignoring being detected by hiding in a corner for a split second. Not to mention how strong and annoying it is when the killer is stalking then hiding in the corner multiple times). He shouldn't be able to use his power at all while he is detected. It doesn't make sense for his power to still be working, even though the surivior knows where he is. That's really all, he should stay the way he is to keep more viable killers in red ranks.
Freddy isnt broken (as in being uncounterable and e.t.c), but just mainly boring to play against. The number of abilities he can do, plus his forever Freddy build (slow down add ons with perks) just makes him unfun to play against.
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@Sairek Being out of the jurisdiction of their powers in only temporary, there is no consistent way to actively outplay and counter their powers. Hence why they need a nerf.
Also to all those thinking this is satirical, it isn't. I have provided a facts based argument with not one of you providing any real evidence against it.
Side Note- Also a consistent rank 1 killer.
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Tbh my only complaint about Freddy is the 'forever freddy' build, which is just boring to play against. I mean, really, gens are boring enough to do without any hinderances, whether it being ruin or straight up slow-down, but with a full build dedicated to slowing down gen progress and constantly kicking them with Pop Goes The Weasel, it just gets so boring that you might as well just walk away and get yourself a snack or two instead.
Other than that, there's an issue that seems to be a trend with newer killers. Have you noticed that Freddy, Demogorgon and Oni (though to a lesser extent) don't really have any cooldown when they cancel using their power? Freddy can just slap snares/pallets around without any slowdown or cooldown that would hinder his chasing abilities. He can also cancel his teleport without any drawbacks. Demo can just start charging his Shred and cancel it without being locked out of attacking or hindering his movespeed by a noticeable amount.
It kinda feels inconsistent with other killers, who get locked out of attacking immediately after using their power for a second or two. When Huntress wants to hide her hatchet away, she locks herself in an animation of doing so. When Plague wants to cancel her vomit, she slows down to swallow it and can't attack for a second. Bubba can't just stop revving his chainsaw immediately (and neither can Billy, though the cooldown is much shorter and less punishing in his case), he has to go through an animation that also locks him away from attacking and slows him down.
Just a thing that kinda bugs me, but oh well.
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Honestly at this point lets just give survivors the ability to mori killers. Its the ultimate counter play.
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Counter to freddy: wake up
Counter to GF: when he stalks, run on him. when he M1s, loop him
Seems like you are only playing survivor m8.
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The only thing that might need to be adressed at some point on Freddy is the stacking of slow down add-ons and perks... Maybe. Other than that, reworked Freddy is pretty much a model for how Killers should be designed. His snares just feel right. Easy to use and place without any arbitrary downsides.
Ghostface is another matter entirely. He is a design mess. The whole hiding from the survivors thing was doomed to fail and will never work in a satisfying way for both side. Currently he is just a joke to reveal if you know how to angle your camera properly. Killers with strong fundamentals can make the No Stalk build work for them, but at the end of the day Ghostface is just a sneaky guy with no mobility of any kind. Large maps and gen rush still destroy him. You can't really "fix" the current Ghostface. He would need a rework, wich is probably not happening anytime Soonโข.
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Sure, we can take away Billy's chainsaw and make Padded Jaws basekit while we're at it too.
But seriously?
Freddy Counterplay
1. Being awake
2. Map awareness
Ghostface Counterplay
1. More general awareness
2. You can loop him like any other M1 killer
The solution is literally git gud.
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So because a killer is powerful, they have to be nerfed?
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I too think that many killers have to meet way too many requirements for their powers. Let's just take a look at my boy Bubba (without addons):
- I have to get extremely close which is obviously not an easy thing to do without a power that helps me come close in the first place and a rather bug terror radius unless the survivors are complete potatoes. Also Bubba is huge and easy to see so mindgaming is often not even possible unless it's a completely closed loop.
- Then I have to STAY extremely close for a default duration of over 8 meters of survivor running distance till I can finally start swinging the chainsaw. During those 8 meters I lose some distance because my power slows me down to a lousy 86.25% movement speed for whatever reason which sometimes allows survivors to still reach a pallet or hop over a window as Bubba SLOOOOOWLY starts accelerating from there.
- even if they're out in the open with no pallets or windows around they can just brainlessly run around a big tree or... Literally any other object which allows them to easily outrun the default chainsaw even though they messed up by ending up out in the open.
- even if they're out in the open with literally nothing around they still have a slight chance of dodging the chainsaw by running into Bubba's belly while he starts the chainsaw up (as it blocks his field of view for a brief moment) and then spinning left and right. If you manage to confuse Bubba for just a TINY moment you will have a chance to run in any direction for 1-2 seconds (4-8 meters) making it impossible to catch up with the default chainsaw.
- and lastly Bubba obviously has to successfully avoid any object during the chainsaw attack (which sometimes is not as easy as it looks with the choppy frame rates on console especially on maps with lots of stuff and narrow ways like Hawkins) otherwise the survivor gets 20 meters of distance if you bump into stuff that was BARELY in your field of view.
You have to meet all these requirements to use your power allowing you to get a hook in one hit instead of two. And then you get punished by the emblem system for using the power but that's another story...
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@Sairek How does one counter an ability with no cooldown? Or a killer with no warning and terror radius? Notice the three original killers all have counterplay. You can disable Trappers traps, Wraith gives a warning before he can attack, and Hillbilly (Whilst Powerful) is extremely loud and can be countered by just being near a pallet or paying attention to his chainsaw. Freddy and Ghostface don't follow this guideline. They actively power creep these killers with no down side.
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Consistency is what made T1 Myers much worse than he was. He was the only killer who trumps Spine Chill and Premonition. Because the devs wanted to be consistent and give him Undetectable, he is arguably a lesser effective stealth killer than Ghostface is.
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What about Hag? She can cheap camp!
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Popcorn time.
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Why don't we just get rid of killer ๐
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We should buff both those Killers. Asleep Survivors have a 50% action speed penalty. Stalked Survivors are hindered and their auras are revealed for the duration.
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His footsteps are also pretty loud even when you're injured and running. I remember being jumped by a Ghostface thinking it was another teammate's footsteps.
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But he has counterplay. Especially on loops like Jungle Jyms. It's just harder to mindgame and loop him.
On many loops, you are simply forced to put the pallets down faster. Maybe you just have to practice some more against Freddy. He's definitely strong so he is harder to counter. But he definitely has counterplay, since he can't ignore pallets and vaults.
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Completely disagree Ghostface is no where near overpowered or uncounterable. He can be easily looped and it isnโt hard to take him out of stealth mode. Freddy has always been an oppressive killer but never overpowered.
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Spine Chill for both GhostFace and Freddy. You can juke GhostFace and it is fairly easy to take him out of stealth.
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@Sairek So just gonna ignore my comment about the og killers? The fact is that every killer should have counterplay and these two don't. Lets face the facts you can't counter a killer who can spam his power every second, you can't counter a killer who has no terror radius and no warning before he strikes.
Also throwing down pallets early is too general to say it counters these killers because it applies to every killer.
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I feel like you've never played any of these killers, go back and play them, if you play 10 matches and get a 4k 9 times out of 10, then we can talk nerfs.
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Survivors do have a counter to swing chains it's called waking up
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You counter an ability that has no cooldown by being in a state where it does literally nothing to you. Aka: waking up. Also you can just run a variety of areas instead of trying to loop him around a single structure.
As for Ghostface, he isn't invisible and his power DOES have a cooldown. Use your eyes, and I'm not talking about revealing him. If you've seen him then you've already countered him, just run and loop him like normal.
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@Sairek Theres like 40 people and 1 of me I can't reply to everyone. I've given a multitude of reasons and ways these killers can't be countered. While your argument continuously appears to be in short "Git Gud". If you could provide an actual valid reason instead of generalized counters that apply to every killer, I could try to agree and or change my views. I've given guidelines that should apply to every killer and guidelines that shouldn't apply to every killer. I'm down to have a discussion, but yall are literally saying git gud lmao. <3
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I knew people would say Spirit needs more nerfs. Thanks for proving me right.
Your post screams bias.... I do not want to be one of those types of people but it's obvious you are incredibly survivor biased. So, with that in mind, I'll argue the opposite. Argue that Freddy and Ghostface are strong but it's a good thing. The game would be so boring going against the likes of Legion and Doctor all the time. So, again, it's good they are powerful. It's unhealthy for the game if a survivor can 1 v 1 a killer.
Also, the fact you want Ghostface nerfed says a lot. The inconsistent revealing I can understand but everything else you suggested is terrible.
I don't play as or against Freddy much so won't comment on that
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Give me a break. Why stop there let's take there weapon away too...nerf freddy really. It's this kind of stuff that made freddy the worst killer the first time around. Freddy is finally better but not by much still super ez to beat. What your really saying is you have to change your play style an dont want to.
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If the best killers get nerfed, it doesn't mean every other killer needs to as well, if we keep nerfing killers every single time we find something about them that is even remotely hard to play against, every killer will eventually become useless and bad, meaning survivors have an easier time than they already do.
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๐๐๐ Freddy is too good... Nerf him.
๐๐๐ Ghostface has best stealth (even though he's ez af to knock out of it) Nerf him.
Have you heard of getting good.
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@Sairek ย "I'm not going to have a conversation with someone who is clearly unwilling to actually read my post and wants to put words in my mouth that I very clearly did not say"
Look whos doing the same thing lmao. Listen honestly I've addressed all the points, but I'll say it again. By the time you hear Ghostface its too late. The sleep cycle happens to survivors every 60 seconds so it is not a consistent way to stay out of the dream state, not to mention he puts you back in it every time he hits you. It also takes longer if you have other survivors help you wake up. The clocks also always spawn the furthest ways from you. There want any other arguments? Try to step up your debate game lmao. Total hypocrite
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You might be new or never played against Freddy until recent or played him as you ever? Freddy about 3 months ago had to pull you in by hitting you or you be in his terror radius too long. You'd hear the lullaby and boom asleep it really sucked as a survivor because you couldn't see him and know if he was camping the hook or just nearby. Now that you can Randomly fall asleep, you see him which helps as a survivor. When Freddy does not port he gets a massive cool down against him before he can port again. So if you see blood blow the Gen and run then he ports for nothing or run past him mid port and then he won't port and bam you've countered them. Every counter you're saying there isn't one, there is several. Play against them more, play with other players and learn
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You clearly hace no idea about nerfing. Those arent nerfs those are kills.
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Probably bait but I'll bite lol what makes you think you should be able to "counter" what every killer does? The audacity lmao git gud if you wanna stop dying to killers better than you
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This is amazing! This really shows what kind of community the game has when people can't tell a joke from a real post!
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Freddy loses bloodlust while placing snares.
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