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How could we fix Decisive Strike without making it useless?
Comments
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This is exactly what I mean by the dumb flaws, the perk isn't broken but it still has abuse-able situations like this. DS can be used to punish a killer that is doing well and isn't tunneling.
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DS should only be good against tunneling (I think it's why they made it in the first place). For that the solution would be simple. After you get unhooked, if any other survivor gets into the dying state, ds deactivates. That would prevent tunneling, not be an abusive perk in end game situations and would also prevent (even if only for a bit) from unsafe hook rescues or at least would give you more time to escape since the killer would have to hit the other survivor first into the dying state.
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good, survivors have enough second chance perks. one crutch less in the game would be awesome.
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The only problem I have with DS is if you manage to hook 1 - 2 people and get back to a survivor who still has DS ticking after they've been fully healed and then they DS you even though you didn't tunnel.
Only thing I'd change is making the perk deactivate if you've fully healed yourself as survivor. Possibly if another survivor is hooked before you but that seems like it could put some survivors in unfair scenarios vs a camper.
For the most part I feel like the perk is in a good spot but there are some instances where the perk punishes you as killer when you can literally go out of your way to avoid the survivor with DS and still get stabbed.
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I'm a main survivor and to put simpler what I wrote before, it should be something like:
After being unhooked or unhooking yourself, if you are not the last survivor left and no one else gets into the dying state for 40/50/60 seconds, Decisive Strike becomes active if you get into the dying state.
The rest would be the same.
Probably would bring other problems or even change the way tunneling would be made, but at least would give you an escape chance from tunneling as we know it without the abuse of end game "free escapes".
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This is what I was thinking originally, but the main issue with this is that it doesn't fix the problem of hiding in a locker and being invincible for the duration of your Decisive Strike, allowing generators to be done. And you could do it a second time after this, downing someone and hooking them allows time for the survivor to run away and it is the same issue, it's a get out of jail free card, this also wouldn't fix the endgame collapse with Decisive Strike. Thank you for the feedback and I hope I may convince you more would need to be done.
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No offense to the OP who seems like a nice person, but this sure sounds like a killer who feels entitled to always be able to get 4ks.
I sympathize with the fact that you're trying to perfect the world you generally play in as killer but if killers didn't tunnel so much, no one would play it. And as noted it's extremely specific to a single use being hit within a minute after being pulled off hook and then hitting the skill check. There's one situation that a killer can't recover in time to get that second hit - near a door at endgame. The very endgame that is now ridiculously killer-sided because of EGC.
And bear in mind that running a DS perk means they're NOT running something else... maybe something like prove thyself or we'll make it or spine chill or deliverance. So they are hurting other aspects of their game for that one chance that DS pays off and they don't get re-caught.
I'm still amazed that killers have the temerity to complain about survivor advantages when they are living in an era of 3k averages.
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This is also a very good idea, thank you for your feedback, I like the aspect of bring the last person disallows for Decisive Strike to become active.
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Just make it 45 seconds instead of 1 minute and make it to where it cant be activated once exit gates are open then it will be fine.
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Hi, no offense taken first of all, and thank you for the feedback, I also do not play killer, I play survivor most of the time. The main reason I wanted to change the perk or add solutions, is because of the fact there isn't a counter to it when they jump into a locker, or if the exit gate is right next to the hook where they are pulled off. This is to make it less of an oppressive perk, as it can throw off a game's momentum, and another reason I wanted to change it, is because most of the times that I would ever use DS to stab the killer, was when they weren't tunnelling, and I wanted to add counterplay that doesn't require slugging and throwing off your momentum.
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They need to make it if you do any actions such as healing/repairing/saving it deactivates, if you're doing one of those things that means you're not in danger so DS would be useless.
Right now DS is " do what the hell you want for 1 min without any downsides"
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This is not a way to challenge their view, please, if you disagree, be reasonable and explain why you disagree.
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DS should deactivate when you jump in lockers
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Already did lmao.
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Something to do with it not working in lockers, because pure invincibility is just bs.
And maaaaybe it not working if someone else got hooked? But idk that change could be iffy, it just sucks when you're downing people so fast that you get hit by DS after you've hooked someone completely different.
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How wonderfully rude. My points are valid. Don't weaken a necessary perk for a situation that may happen in .0001% of games. And trust me, I'm plenty tired of the entitled killer mindset. I'm just not going to be rude about it.
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Except for that sometimes gates spawn too far from the hook. Giving you no opportunity to use DS as all.. and that’s perfectly fine. Kudos to a killer who knows how to counter it. You, however, are basically putting EVERY possible outcome into this one instance. Which doesn’t happen every time because it gets countered.
You can also get downed so many meters away from the gate and be slugged...same difference. I’ve actually seen killers pick a survivor while in dying state right as they were about to leave, should they be mad that they can’t use it just because they brought the perk? No. But you also shouldn’t be mad when you didn’t properly counter it by hooking someone away from the gates. When you can clearly see where the gates are.
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Cry me a river and ".0001%" Try more like at least 20-30% and so you're just going to pretend that DS is extremely abusable at end game and that it still punishes killers that arent trying to tunnel the survivor with DS since it lasts 1 minute?
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I personally think DC is fine how it is. It can only be used once, once its used hit or missed, it's basically just a useless perk slot. I use DC because I tend to get tunneled a lot for some odd reason (I dont tbag, flashlight, or point) especially at the beginning of the game with just 1 gen done. But I understand how it can be frustrating when the exit gates are open and they use DC as well.
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That's very nice of you to be concerned about killer welfare. lol. I still see those as niche situations and there are bigger issues to deal with but yeah, free will.... have fun...
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You cant hook someone that far away, that he cant get away from a M1-killer. When you get hit by a normal M1, you can run 75m including bloodlust before you can hit them again. That is across the whole map.
If killers get a hook lategame, they deserve a bone imho. Deactive DS/BT when the gens are powered, so you get more players playing killer at rank 1. Its one of those things that are highly unfun as killer.
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Thank you for your feedback, I understand that it is a one-time use perk, but it can completely change the course of a game, and allow for invincibility in lockers, making the killer leave them, get stabbed, or wait for DS to be over. And the endgame problem with DS, I agree sometimes it can be wasted, and not used, but the possibility of it is a problem, thank you for reasonably disagreeing.
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And on the flip side being slugged and tunneled are also unfun for survivors but they adapt either way.
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Thats why you have Decisive Strike, Borrowed Time and Unbreakable to counter that for the whole game. But when the gates are open, it isn't about tunneling/slugging anymore, its straight up immunity to escape. You cant counter it, thats why endgame DS/BT should be looked at.
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@Weederick if you can’t counter it then why is it that many survivors who have just been unhooked get slugged and their DS runs out?
They can jump in a locker but the killer can just wait, because the entity will kill them anyway. There is your “bone”.
There are counters to DS the thing is as I said before people just want a perk to work in their favor. How nice would it be it I didn’t have to cleanse totems to prevent no ed or not have to wonder whether a Hillbilly has Spirit Fury... in EGC.
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Hey it was already nerfed!
And if you hate this perk so much then stop tunneling.
This perk is situational yet everyone runs it because killers don’t know that slugging and not tunneling is an option.
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Borrowed Time
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If you don't tunnel and you still get DS'ed it means you're dominating the match. I don't see the point for being so sweaty.
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You can also wait it out.
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You know what, I think that's a genuis idea. Youve really got a point man. And lets buff ruin and noed too! Lets go gamers!
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Assuming he just wants survivors to be helpless really shows how biased you really are, can you not see that DS has some situations where it can be abused where the killer didn't deserve the DS or it's EGC and the killer can't do anything when they are at the exit gate slugging to it.
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As long as it doesn't activate from grabs from lockers, and other actions I'm fine with it now.
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There's no point in arguing with someone who doesn't deal in facts and/or understand statistics. There is absolutely no way that an endgame DS that allows an unstoppable escape happens in 20-30% of games. Again, look at killer kill rates. 75% at red ranks where presumably this is such a terrible issue. I don't know how you guys play at all what with unstoppable master SWF squads using their last second DS at gates... Yeah 75% kill rates. This is a non-issue. In the meantime I get hit across a pallet stun every other game, hit 5 feet past a window every other game, and end up the last survivor in an EGC with doors at Killer for Dummies distances apart every 3-4 games. but yes... lets prioritize increasing killer kill rates in this niche situation.
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Of course it can be abused, but it can be countered, and if its at the exit gate then oh well.
Same goes for powerful killer perks, like if you get killed by noed, oh well, thats on you and theres a counter, even though theres no way you could have known (just like decisive)
Just play smart and assume the worst
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I'm not saying noed is okay either, both sides have some stupid things still but it doesn't mean the opposite sides abuseable perk is justified,but i'm not gonna rip into people for using it or suggesting that there needs to be a change to them though, no side should be rewarded for playing bad intentionally.
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Like others have said; it should deactivate when you are fully healed or start working on a gen.
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Honestly, I don't mind getting DS'd. I'll just eat it and Chase them again to punish them for their teammate going for a bad save. I'm either too far away for DS to be needed or I get the occasional "unhook as soon as I turn around". Or I've also had a few times at Endgame while I ran Rancor. DS is quite annoying, but it's something I am fine having to deal with.
Also, I do agree that it should deactivate if another Survivor gets downed. Not hooked. Since that way it still works as an anti tunnel perk but also has counterplay/can be punished if a Survivor tries to unhook right in front of the Killer.
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DS is fine. The nerf they did to it a while back was exactly the right thing to do.
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I agree, the buff was very good, but right now there are still issues with the perk, and I wanted to make it so it counters actual tunnelling, it has a lot of situations where you aren't being tunnelled but you can still stab the killer. This idea is to counteract the survivor playing stupid, I think the change they made was in good intentions and made it a lot better and less oppressive. Thank you for your feedback.
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I like your first idea the most. +1
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This is a very well put together argument and I agree with a lot of this, thank you for being civil as well and giving feedback.
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Waiting 20s before a hit? Thats, coincidentally, the same time as waiting after a M1 = 75m including bloodlust. Which means free escape out of the gates.
We're talking offtopic anyways, lategame BT is a change a lot of players want to see, but its probably not gonna happen anyways. DS in lockers should be deactivated, thats the main point about the perk that misses the mark.
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This thread is hilarious. Why just not remove it and any other perks in the game that dont benefit killers?
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This isn't a thread about nerfing survivors to the ground, the perk is problematic in several ways, which I'm suggesting ideas for fun. I am not trying to get survivor's perks to be bad, I want to make them less oppressive in situations where they are uncounterable.
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DS is fine.
If you got hit with DS one of two things happened:
1) You were tunneling.
2) The survivor purposely let you down them to DS you. You took the bait. Therefore you got outplayed.
It's really not hard to avoid DS. I slug like crazy when I expect a DS, going so far as to just leave the person on the ground to find someone else. Sometimes I just flat out eat the DS, especially if I'm Nurse or Spirit. Go ahead, DS me, I'll just catch you again in 10 seconds or less.
It's really not hard to get around.
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Sorry but you are assuming way too much. Survivors do not “control” where they get downed. Sure, sometimes they have the luxury of steering a chase a certain way but many times they don’t. Then you assume other survivors will always be around and willing to body block and that these made to order survivors will naturally have BT. While at red ranks body blocking teammates are more common there are plenty of times that they aren’t nearby or there’s only 1 or they’re already injured etc.
Maybe I’m wrong but it seems like many people confuse count and percentage. Losing a kill because of an unstoppable DS near an exit (not because of bodyblocking teammates or BT) does not happen so frequently that it needs to be fixed. Maybe it’s happened to you 5 times in the past week, which feels like a lot, but out of how many games? And when it DOES happen, bear in mind that the survivor gave up a perk like Prove Thyself or Spine Chill or something else to take that gamble that it would pay off.
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60 seconds of immunity used to be ruthless Is not ok. Start yo do gens should deactivate it. Killer hooking another person should aswell.
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See, sometimes you don't intend to tunnel, and you still get stabbed, I've stabbed killers that have completely downed and hooked a survivor, and came over to me, I jumped in a locker, and stabbed him when he pulled me out. I wouldn't call that tunneling, and the only counter is to waste time and wait, when you're unhooked and you go to a locker immediately, the killer can't do anything about that for 60 seconds. There is physically no counterplay that doesnt result in the survivor getting away within that time frame, the only counterplay is to wait 60 seconds and apply no pressure, it isn't tunneling when a survivor who was saved from a hook to take hits for their friend from the chase and have invincibility from being hooked for the duration of their perk.
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Personally I find it useless, except for a rare occasion when someone unhooks me in front of the killer. Even then unless I actually get away it either times out or I'm downed beside the hook.
Keep it simple, you get one chance of hitting back and not being hooked.
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Doesn't matter, killer should be paying attention to how long it's been since they hooked you. And jumping in a locker is a dead give-away you have DS. If the killer grabs you that is 100% their fault. You baited them, they took it. OUTPLAYED.
And there is a counter play. Slug them. Go for another survivor. Slugging is super effective at slowing the game, especially if you have Sloppy. I had a game as Spirit on Ward the other day, I returned to a hook and saw the Feng jump into a locker. Even though it was her death hook and I already tunneled her once kinda, I just said okay screw you and went for the Ace instead. There were no gens near her and she was so scared to leave the locker I'm pretty sure she stayed in there until the Ace went down. I still won that game easily.
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