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How could we fix Decisive Strike without making it useless?
Comments
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In your explanation you described going from point A to B when using DS to guarantee a successful escape. As if every single match plays the same for some reason. Variables do exist you know. Which is why I listed the different scenarios of what could be for/against you (gates location, LoS etc.) You can believe that it happens 95% of the time but I am not buying it. I’m in red ranks and I see VERY skilled killers who would rather eat the DS early and know exactly what they need to do to secure that one kill and even snowball at times.
Hooking them far away from the gate works better than not don’t you think? I mean it only takes common sense to know that. If you get a group of people even with someone with BT. You can still hit the person unhooking and make sure you down them, not the person with the endurance status. I’ve done it and it works.
Even without enduring, there is a lot of evidence that you can counter it and you only need to watch a good streamer or play in red ranks to realize this.
Also assuming that people are just going to keep unhooking each other to proc their DS’s is kind of silly. You would think that by that point someone is on death hook, which if they are their DS is going bye-bye. Of course, this is hypothetically speaking since much of this is dependent on the skill or the killer.
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- Timer activates for 60 seconds after an unhook.
- If slugged, the timer pauses.
- When someone else gets on a hook while DS is active, the Perk deactivates.
- If you are slugged while DS is active and someone is being put on a hook, the Perk will pick you up from the dying state and deavtivate. (Not disabled until you miss or hit it, just deactivated)
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As a red rank killer, I don't find it a problem at all. I've been lucky that I have not yet run into it accidentally and the only thing that's annoying is the exit gate thing but that's fair play. There's nothing that says someone can't use it in a very optimized way. It's not like the perk was designed exclusively for being tunneled, if that were the case then it should work more than once. I just think a lot of killer Mains get salty when someone escapes at the exit gate and tea bags. I don't care about any of that stuff, some matches I get four some matches I get three some matches everyone escapes that's part of the game. It would be so boring if every game I got all four people or always Escape or always died. The existing version has a lot of prerequisites for it to trigger and it only works once. I don't see why people want to further convolute the perk.
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About the only thing I would like to see changed is for the duration that it is active reduced from 60 seconds to 45 seconds. I would be fine with that 45 second timer refreshing if the survivor is downed while it is active. But if you weren't downed within 45 seconds of being pulled off a hook then you weren't tunneled.
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imo as a survivor main, when someone else is hooked cut it off BUT... if youre seudo tunneled and slugged it shouldnt turn off. once your team picks u up then it shuts off
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I mean, if the team played optimal why would you deny their reward?
There is no scenario where a killer Or a survivor would find themselves unable to do anything unless they actually made a bad play first... and even then I would argue that they can come back from it.
Simply having DS does not mean the survivor is going to get a chance to stab the killer. The fact that there are different outcomes in teams where DS was in play shows that it is possible to counter it and it isn’t as broken as people are saying here.
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Decisive is good and balanced rn. It's no longer a staple and honestly quite easy to counter. If you don't like having people with ds active at an open exit gate maybe you should be less sweaty for kills. They got out, get over it. Survivors have to get over an impossible to find totem
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There are lots of things that could be done.
Decreasing the time it stays active. A whole minute of hook immunity is way too much, it punishes killers who aren't tunneling and creates situations where they can leave the exit gates without being possibly stopped. Also, there is no real way of countering it when combined with Unbreakable.
Make so it doesn't trigger during locker grabs (because there is no counter to it).
Make so it get's deactivated when another survivor is hooked (because it means the killer wasn't "tunneling" that survivor).
And also: DS should NOT activate on self-unhooks. There have been plenty of games where I hooked the last two survivors, one of them escaped the hook with that 4% chance and got immediatly downed, but I was forced to wait a whole minute just watching the survivor crawl to prevent the person from getting up again via DS. It's unfun and completely unnecessary.
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Getting deactivated when another survivor gets hooked is actually a good idea. I feel like the devs might implement this if DS starts seeing too much use again
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The gate immunity is a part of the problem, another is the fact if you hop in a locker with DS, you're either going to get out free, or you're going to wastes about 50 seconds.
Bringing up other problems that another side has to face isn't an argument either, we can't address every problem in a singular post, I have my beliefs on totem spawns and maybe one day I'll post a thread about it, but for now, DS is on the table. And locker DS is uncounterable except for waiting and having little pressure.
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This could be a great idea as well, and is the most likely that they will add if they ever changed it, but the locker problem would still remain, same with the exit gate problem. It would be a great step in the right direction though.
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Nothing, leave it alone.
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Yes these are things DS does. Thank you for telling me. If you don't want DS to be in the game that's your opinion
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I agree with this, the part about them unhooking themselves and you having to wait is extremely annoying, and had happened to me both killer and survivor.
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Word.
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Devs ready stated this is not a change they will ever make. It is too unrealistic and unreliable. That would be a Drastic nerf.
D.S. is fine imo.
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I'm not saying I don't want DS in the game, I actually like the idea of a perk that helps protect against being targeted, it's just that it allows for people with DS active to hide in a locker and have uncontested invincibility, with the only counter being wasting 50 or so seconds of your time as a killer, which if you know survivors, will most likely allow them to get a significant portion of the generators done.
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Just because they use DS doesn’t mean they made a bad play.
You keep bringing up the same singular scenario “Two survivors using DS one of them save” I don’t know who you’ve played against but seriously... any good killer knows that you don’t pick up someone who just went in for the save... and at least not right away. I’ve explicitly left someone on the ground only to be followed by a DC because their DS was denied.
The mere fact that they are playing risky doesn’t mean that they won or will win. A bad play is a bad play DS or not.
I had this conversation with you before and it got nowhere. As long as your views remain in the “DS is only a tunneling perk” realm we will probably never see eye to eye because that’s where a lot of your points are stemming from.
I don’t think DS is only a tunneling perk so I will use it as I see it fit to my strategy. You’re encouraged to go for somebody else you’re not forced to.
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if they hop in a locker you can just walk away, or maybe take the stun. These are both much better than sitting still for 30+ seconds
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DS I can agree, is fine in most situations, but there are certain situations where nothing can be done, as I've brought up several times, lockers, hop in one with Decisive, killer either has to eat the stun and throw off his gameplay flow, leave them alone, also throwing off his gameplay flow, or wait 50 or so seconds, which also throws off his gameplay flow, this is generally the main problem with it. I can agree in more situations DS is fine. But some aren't, and we should address that.
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I can agree those bandaid the problem, but they still throw off your game and can cause you to lose a game due to it, I agree they are better than waiting, but waiting is the only true counterplay that allows you to kill the survivor in the locker, which is an unfavorable option. I wanted to propose a change to make Decisive Strike less oppressive in those situations, and make it actually for anti tunneling.
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Reduce the timer on it from 60 to 40 seconds.
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A locker..? Well were you tunneling them first? Then theres your answer.
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Well when they're the last person in the trial, or the person who saved them is a Claudette who vanished, can we call that tunneling?
What if they're taking hits for their team when they have DS, is that tunneling?, What if they're doing gens in my face and they get in a locker when I get close, is that tunneling.
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Well yeah..
Technically.
And jumping off the hook as the last survivor is unlikely.
And D.S. doesn't activate in E.G.C that often. I would know, I run it. Lol.
Plus Claudettes... who vanish kinda want attention in the E.G.C sometimes...
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Another problem is when they pull the survivor off of a hook with DS up next to an exit gate, if I pick up the person that was just on the hook I would be tunneling correct? But if I picked up the survivor with DS, I would get stabbed, which means I was tunneling. Taking hits for team mates because you have uncontested invincibility from a pickup for the duration, I don't think the killer chasing other survivors and you running into the killer to take hits is tunneling.
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Keep it as is but make it not go down during a chase and instantly deactivate if another survivor is hooked.
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new decisive strike needs a nerf. make it deactivite after someone else has been hooked at least. or bring back juggling.
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Halve its duration make it not tick down during a chase or while slugged.
ez pz
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No need to fix something that isn't broken.
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I never complained about it but these suggestions are actually pretty good.
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It's still too strong.
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Should every survivor perk be garbage? It helps prevent being tunneled. It has a 60s cool down, Slug if you don't want to get hit with it.
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Cut the timer down to 30 secs maximum.
Unproc upon another player getting hooked unless you're down.
Allow multiple procs per game.
If killer has mori, find a locker.
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interesting Ideas.
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This is assuming they want the perk to be garbage, DS prevents tunneling a good portion, but some times, you're not getting tunneled, and you immediately get on a generator, and when the killer comes over, you just hop into a locker, he wasn't tunneling, he was off chasing and hooking other survivors, but he still got punished for "tunneling"
And at Endgame, where they get downed outside the gate, you can't slug and then kill them, because they'd just crawl out. These ideas I proposed are to make the perk actually counter tunneling.
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How can survivors know if a killer has NOED, etc
Play as if they do. Don't tunnel! Or slug if you feel you have to tunnel!
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It seems like baby killers are complaining when its not their way. DS is fine the way it is. Leave it alone. Do like what baby killers do and slug. I hate when killers do that cause its a big disadvantage against survivors cause then killers are like taking the game hostage but what can we do its not gonna change. Id say leave DS and work on something more important.
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"Outplayed" like old Spirit using her collision to bodyblock/confirm hits on survivors?
If you got hit by old Spirit, one of two things happened
1. You were not paying attention to her husk not moving
2. She tricked you into thinking she was phasing and you fell for the bait
Seriously, why do random guess scenarios only get to benefit survivors? Don't get me wrong, spirit needed some of the needs she got.. but some weren't THAT necessary. Maybe nurse would have been a better example because she got slightly gutted
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Kid, you're crying over Totems. You need all the crutch scenarios you can get, apparently
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Why would you want to? That does not follow the DBD strategy. When something "needs" fixed that is what you're supposed to do, just make it useless. Look at legion and nurse for examples.
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failing several times in a row but only escaping because you had a perk equipped that rewards failure is hardly outplaying anyone
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As a killer main myself I personally think DS is fine and fair as is,most of the time I attack a rescuer and not the previously hooked survivor anyway
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DS is fine and doesn't need to be fixed.
Adrenaline on the other hand...
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It's fine the way it is. It's a perk, meaning an advantage or something extra when used properly. Otherwise, what's the point? Might as well just remove all perks, because in certain situations they create an advantage.
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Nerfing survivors 3 years in a row. Buffing killers, perks and hitboxes, especially with Ded Servers. Here we go again.
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I would only go for this if the timer was extended to 70-80-90 seconds.
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"what can we do" Against slugging? Many things.
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A survivor doing a generator and whenever you attempt to attack him he goes into a locker, not sure what the counter is except for wasting time to camp the locker.
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It's not that it grants an advantage, it's that the advantage it gives is abusable in some situations, and there isn't counterplay in that situation like knocking somebody down and they are next to an open exit gate.
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