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How could we fix Decisive Strike without making it useless?
Comments
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This wouldn't make the perk useless, it would make it so it can't be abused and so it would counter actual tunneling.
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1. I don't play killer too often.
2. Slugging is easily counterable
3. Most of the time they will immediately jump into a locker
4. Slugging doesn't make anyone happy, killers and survivors get less points, survivors sit on the ground holding recover, and killers losing points for having to avoid a second chance perk when they weren't tunnelling.
5. Saying "work on more important things" is not an argument. The perk is problematic, we should fix it.
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I would say DS is easy counterable too wouldnt you all agree? You could, i dont know, just not tunnel? Maybe an idea? Or bring a mori, since that makes pretty much sure you wont have DS in your game cause you dont pick them up anymore after first hooking. Or, do what all killers do...slug? To me I find it silly that we actually talk about a perk that has a one time use only and then deactivates, while all counterable things can be done undefinately without drawbacks. And for the persons saying they dont Tunnel...yeah you guys do. If you didnt, you wouldnt even notice the perk anymore. There is no way you follow a healthy survivor, that obviously isnt standing still, hit him twice, get looped for a bit, down him...hang him and then go back to search for the other person in less then the 1! minute that DS is active. If you are really that good, what do those 5 seconds matter? If you can down 2 people, hang one in less then a minute, you can onbiously waste those 5 seconds easily. Stop complaining about a perk that actually should be buffed to counter all tunnelling and should actually be activated after every hook for a minute. Then it really is an anti tunnel perk.
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Me putting "work on more important things" wasnt supposed to be an argument just a suggestion. Also DS isnt problematic so theres no need for it to be fixed. If your a survivor main and think its broken then my suggestion is to better up the way you play.
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Give this person an award. So true about your comment. DS is fine the way it is.
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I don't know why some people refuse to do this.
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DS can be easily countered, unless they're next to an open exit gate, or in a locker. And also, just because it's a one time use doesn't excuse it from being an invincibility from being hooked for 60 seconds. I don't think hooking another person, them getting unhooked, running towards the hook, me having to down them and slug, lower my points and emblems, and making the survivor and me annoyed, and then I either have to run away, allowing a pick up, and unhook. Or I have to camp, lowering my emblems, removing fun from both sides, and taking points away from both sides. No one wins.
The only true counterplay for when they are in a locker, is to wait, again, no one has fun, no one gets more points, and both sides are frustrated.
And seriously, you suggest using an problematic offering to counter a problematic. And it again, ruins my emblems, points, and fun. Same for the survivor.
The perk often is used for playing aggressive instead of it being a safeguard against tunneling, just like unbreakable. Its a safe guard against slugging, not supposed to be used aggressively.
Tunneling is a Boogeyman term, there isn't a clear set timeframe or requirement to call it tunneling, the changes I suggested would make it actually against tunneling.
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I never understood killers that slug/leave people on the floor because of a 5 second stun.... just eat the DS and move on. Once DS is out of the way that survivor starts playing extremely carefully and you can tunnel them if needed.
The DS will be more annoying late game when you’re trying to secure some kills. So get it out of the way as early as possible. :)
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Survivors with Decisive Strike hide in a locker to only allow them to be picked up, the only counter that involves you killing them while they're in there is to wait for the timer, which isn't fun for both sides and ruins the killer's pressure.
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Except if you do that exact thing you will still get regularly hit with DS if you're downing fast enough.
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Giving the survivor a free escape to counter a perk, ruining most of your pressure, and allowing the survivor to run to a tile shouldn't be a solution to a problematic perk.
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I disagree with the idea old Spirit had no counter play. Regardless...
DS is not a guess. You see the obsession claws, you KNOW a DS is in play. Therefore you slug the survivors and pay attention to how long it's been since you hooked them.
You make it sound like you literally have no options.
If a survivor does something unusual and gets themselves caught, that's a dead give away they have DS. Like the only more obvious signal would be a neon sign above their head at that point.
It's not failing to escape if a survivor purposely goes down before the timer is up. Nothing about that is rewarding failure. Survivor took a risk and baited you. If killer picks up this person and gets DS they got outplayed. Pure and simple.
Know what I do when I see obsession claws? I slug the crap out of everyone. Unless I'm positive that it's been 60 seconds, I leave them on the ground. If they do something like jump in a locker I leave them alone and find someone else. If I see them trying to bait me into a chase right after they got off the hook, I ignore them and go for someone else (or slug them).
IT. IS. NOT. HARD. TO. COUNTER. DS.
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Give the survivor a health state because they hid in a locker and have a perk. Also this assumes the hooker is able to be found, and most of the time, this is because the survivor with Decisive is playing stupidly and on the offense. The main issue is that I don't go back to the hook to attack the unhooked, but they run next to me so what am I supposed to do? Not attack them? That's stupid. A perk shouldn't be able to make you invincible from being hooked for 60 seconds. It should be a safeguard incase you are actually being targeted, like unbreakable.
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Hooking someone else and downing the person that rescues them but has been hooked before and fully healed while still having DS isn't tunneling that's taking advantage of it by allowing bad play with no consequences. During the chaos of a match sometimes a killer can lose track of who has been recently hooked and who hasn't.
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I'll say this, if you weren't out here crying about Spirit, well tbh I agree with you that DS is fine. I just don't like double standards
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I'd adjust your idea to someone else needing to be hooked first, as protection hits would deactivate decisive and make a core element to survivor play work against the player, which isn't a good feeling in a game. They can keep 60 seconds time, and maybe the idea about deactivating it when you hop in a locker would work, but I think that may be too far.
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There’s alot of entitled survivor mains In here today.
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Not really. Plenty of killer mains agree on here DS dont have any problems.
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I've made this suggestion elsewhere. It's a little complicated, but...
The timer remains the same.
If there are four survivors left, DS deactivates after two are hooked.
If there are three survivors left, DS deactivates after one is hooked.
If there are two or fewer survivors left, DS does not activate.
DS does not activate during the EGC.
This would keep killers who don't tunnel from getting hit by DS. Once there are two (or fewer) survivors left, or if it's the end of the game, it's not tunneling.
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It’s funny: anytime there is an argument, everyone is a Nurse and/or killer main. And yet I never see Nurse, and survivor ques are terrible. I play both sides and I can tell you DS is the best perk in the game, easily. It has no real counter.
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What double standard?
I don't consider anything about playing against Spirit a guessing game. It's a probability game, and with probability you can still make winning choices consistently. For example, people say the stand still trick is a guessing game when it's not. You just assume she is both standing still and phasing walk at the same time, then you will see the options you have that counter both and can avoid her more easily. The real issue is that survivors over think this situation due to something called "over choice" which is when there are so many choices available you cannot make a decision. If you narrow your choices, it becomes a lot easier, and whatever you do should have a good chance at countering either thing she does. Obviously though, there will be situations where you can't do that so you will need to take some risks. But it's not a guessing game. If you're sitting there trying to "guess" if she is standing still or phase walking you already lost.
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Here is what I think of DS:
Decisive Strike currently is in a better and fairer spot than it used to be.
DS is, as it has alyways been, easily one of the very best survivor perks. There is no better option for that slot. It is vastly superior to most other survivor perks.
It is somehow meant to counterplay tunneling...yet it does so much more. It is very strong in many situations in which the killer does not actively tunnel or camp. Here are a few examples:
- when a person is on the hook near an open gate, having DS up is a free escape
- it makes bad survivor play successful as in: I can run right past the killer unhook in plain sight and I know that we both have DS up, so even if somebody gets downed he will either have a free health bar or the killer will have to wait 60 secs (60 secs is an eternity on R1)
- from my experience the number of people running DS is a rather big factor on how good a game is going for the killer - in games when I am NOT camping or tunneling
- in fact I would argue that the perk -despite being meant as counterplay to tunneling- is still the best choice for its slot when you are not tunneled.
What could we do?
- disable the perk once all generators are done. If you have manageed to come this far, you have not been tunneled to death. An anti tunneling perk should not give you the ability to escape in that stage of the game.
- DS is only useable by the last survivor who was hooked
I feel that these changes would leave the core anti tunneling idea intact but would weaken the perks ability in other situations, thus making it more situational. (comparable to Adrenaline)
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??? lol what are you wasting your time for???? Why do you guys keep putting yourself in a hole ....
"I'm in a hole i cant get out"
"Just climb out its not deep"
"I keep falling"
"heres a rope"
"Im still falling"
"Didnt say it was gonna be easy"
You in the hole would be downing the person that just got unhooked... the fact that its end game for some reason makes sense for you to change the perk. the same could have happened 2 min into the game. your post is very selfishly to the situation bro.
To the frustration, a nerf to d strike during the endgame would be epic and i believe it can be agreed on. It would avoid toxic players that abuse it that way, and to those that dont abuse it at least you would get to use it during the game just not the endgame, its dope its almost perfect
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Yea, I've seen plenty others refer to it as such, and that's where the double standards line comes in. Nothing against you, and either way, base spirit was fine, DS as it is is fine. That much we can agree on
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DSis the counter of tunnelling. It was a perk to screw over killers who tunnel one person over and over and over again. They are forced to leave the survivor on the ground and waste 60 seconds which time is precious in the game or pick them up, get stunned, and chase all over again wasting an unknown amount of time based on the killer skill, survivor skill, and the map. DS is great the way it is, to counter tunnelers.
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Either reduce the timer or deactive the perk for a multitude of reasons.
Don't make it terror radius based or proximity based as killers will find a work around and survivors will complain.
Just make it so that the survivors can do actions to actively deactivate it
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I would be happy with the DS if it were more of anti tunneling instead of another crutch. Simple fix would be that make the timer go double speed, if the killer is let's say 32-40 meters away. So you get DS immunity for 30 seconds. 60 seconds if killer is within terror radius distance.
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no just deal with the stun survivors have been nerfed enough already. I'm sorry that you cant get a 4k every game because just maybe you were not skilled enough. The survivors did all the gens before you could kill them and then opened the gates and did all the work to get out. But no killers want even more ways to get second chances. As if noed was not enough killers can do the d**k move and camp as well. I'm sorry for being upset but killers cant just complain and get everything survivors have nerfed to the ground just like survivors cant complain to get everything killers have nerfed as well. P.s Im not trying to be mean to anyone i just wish the game was balanced around both sides and everybody no matter what role they play could have fun and enjoy the game.
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It is meant to counteract tunneling, but it doesn't ~90% of the time.
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I understand you want to be kind and I'll keep that in mind while I'm writing this to also be kind
I hope you understand I rarely play killer, and I don't care about the 4k most of the time. And I understand the frustration with noed and camping. It's similar how some killers are frustrated with certain tiles, BT and DS. I have my opinions on these perks but I didn't want to put them all in a singular thread.
Offering solutions to things are what make the game better most of the time, and allow for discussions on what is the best course of action.
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I can agree with everything in this post, it is meant for anti tunneling, but it is abusable in other situations. The devs had great intentions but it turned out wrong when they made it for countering tunneling. Slugging is unfun for both sides, using moris is unfun for survivors, waiting next to a locker is unfun for killers, no one wins in the situation.
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For anyone defending ds, I recommend playing killer on high rank
100% chance at least 2 survivors will have it and it feels really cheap to go after someone and down them and still get hit with a ds by a survivor you hooked 20 seconds ago
I suggest that it loses it's effect once you hook someone else
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Lasts 40 seconds, deactivates if a different survivor is hooked. Fixed.
Now it counters tunneling but isn't as abusable.
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I can agree with this mostly, even at lower ranks (rank 7-10 where I usually leave my killers) I see plenty of Decisive Strikes.
The problem with having it deactivate when hooking another person, wouldn't completely remove locker and endgame cheese.
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I like the idea of shortening the timer, but the hooking another survivor part I can't say would fix it.
Locker and endgame cheese would still be possible, just might have a few less of those situations.
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Well if the survivor saved the DS till the end I can understand and that is fair
But just having ds getting deactivated after hooking someone would greatly make the game better for the killer
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That's true, those are 2 other abusable situations.
Deactivated once gates are powered or doing any interaction other than pallets, windows or healing?
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I can agree, but I feel like the only time the hook cancels DS idea would be used when everyone is slugged, and you're just killing them on hooks.
I agree the idea is good and would definitely improve killers lives, but it could still have those abusable situations, I mainly wanted to make it so it actually countered tunneling.
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I would recommend my idea, which is a tad extreme.
Here's one that isn't as extreme
Getting grabbed no longer procs Decisive Strike
Decisive Strike no longer procs during endgame
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Those help a little but still don't prevent it from being abused. It needs the reduced timer and deactivate on another survivor hook as well.
Even with all of these changes DS would still be at least A tier and ran by many.
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I could agree, which is why I think the idea I proposed originally at the start of this thread are better to make it less strong.
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Yours would work, I just worry a hit might be too much which is why I mentioned the hook thing. Honestly though even with your more extreme version people would still run it, that's just how insanely good it currently is. All those extreme nerfs and it still is easily meta.
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That still makes no sense even if you tell that another hundred times.
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My idea makes no sense? Explain.
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Thanks for being nice. Like i said i didn't want to be mean to anyone. I was just a bit angry and needed to vent. I love playing dbd but the stress it gives me combined with the stress from work makes me get so angry. And i'm a very calm person most the time and don't get angry but this game just gets to me somehow. Honestly with over 1000hrs on this game i still wouldn't know how to balance the game or how to make perks balanced. And it's great that community members like you are suggesting ideas like this to make the game better for everybody.
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Thank you for being nice. I can understand as well, I have over 1.6k hours and I still don't know how to completely fix the game, if anything, it won't be totally fixed because of the debate of balancing around the 1v1 or the 1v4 which is a whole other thing that is a mess.
I'm just trying to suggest ideas and hopefully change someone's mind about a perk, and make dbd a hopefully better game for years to come.
Thank you for the feedback.
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i think that making the killer know a survivor has ds or just making ds not activate while grabbed from a locker
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