So,,, nobody wants to talk about Otz's new video???
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So with a full meta build on the best killer
By a top raided streamer Who used scummy tactics
And the survivors didnt even give a real chase or loop at all.
Insane amounts of pressure, never relaxed for a second. Did everything he could stressed fully I might add. And still couldn't get the 4k.
This is what they want killers to be like ?
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He is there’s no one above him
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Before the first 2 gens pop he forgave one hook, he missed to regress the gens and went after the very obvious DS user who was leading him away from the almost done gen instead of trying to defending it, also not by not having Pop he lost 40 seconds of regression (maybe 60 if he were to hook Yui at the start).
You should be forced to bring perks that help you and cover what your basekit lacks, thats why they exist and you shouldnt bring 3 perks who cover the same area because you will lose strength in other areas.
Slowdown perks arent mandatory but you risk facing people with a genrush strat and without them is very hard to win, though he did win the game without them.
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Awww :(. He wanted a 4k 5 gens? Poor Otz.
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Again, Billy is supposed to be high pressure killer, slowdown is not something "his kit lacks"
Also he did not forgive a hook, he was trying to increase the pressure by slugging, there was no time to hook because the gens were getting finished.
And again, surviviors were not playing well, they just did gens in front of his face, the game shouldnt require a slowdown perk, tunneling and perfect chases to win against bad surviviors.
Also you completly ignore that he got Brutal Killer
Post edited by Archimedes5000 on10 -
so is every killer game supposed to be nurse/spirit/billy and run the same 5 perks just like how a lot of survivors run the same 5 perks? Otz was obviously way better than them and provided immense map pressure yet they just did gens like it was nothing no loops. No counter play whatsoever. How boring is a game that you just hold a button and wait for the gen to pop who cares if you’re about to go down, looping is too hard let’s just hold M1. This is not healthy and if not dealt with properly the game will die in year 4...
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So some people say this billy player made a mistake here and there and because of this the outcome (brutal killer) was reasonable?
The survivors in this video got insta downed most of the time! they made countless mistakes and it nearly didnt even matter.
some mistakes and a ton of pressure vs countless mistakes. and the clearly better player in this video didnt get rewarded.
How is this balanced?
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Same discussian everytime.
What is a good build. What is a bad build. But he got a K. But the slow gens are boing.
Blah blah blah.
It boils down to this.
In an asymetrical PVP game people will get frustrated and stressed out if they feel the level of skill required to match the opposing side is also asyemmtrical. Which balancing and proper patches of new content are meant to smooth over in time. DBD is in like what...patch version whatever and killers still say they feel this is the case.
It all boils down to that. It's not about what was done or what was achieved. That's the core issue and always has been. Anyone who plays killers always say that this game feels ultra-sweat and stressful to do any good unless you're some of the top killers and this is the reason why.
Post edited by Flatskull on2 -
I think the people trying to act like it's not good enough unless it's a 4k should just step back for a sec and think...
Maybe if you're not going to be using the strongest things, you're going to be at a little disadvantage? You don't bring a knife to a gunfight, simple. Maybe that's not the way things should be.
But forever now in gaming that's how it's been. You want to be good, you pick the good stuff, and if you decide to opt out then you're going to have to put in extra effort to make up for that power.
You can't have your cake and eat it too.
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What I mean is, the game seems fairly simple.
Yes some people are better at looping and mind games then others.
But I hardly think the plays people make in this game can be called complex theory.
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A lot of people still really don't get how snowbally this game is. A single different decision earlier in the game could have stopped two generators from being completed as fast as they were. At like 1:57 he tunnels the Yui instead of going for the rescuer. This alone cost him two gens. If he didn't tunnel the Yui, he would have downed the rescuer (who had no pallet since it was just broken), saved that generator, patrolled to the other generator that got completed, and would have gotten people off of that generator as well. The simple act of downing the rescuer instead of tunneling the Yui would have 100% saved those two gens for a far longer time, while also having people hooked against Hillbilly in a zone without pallets now, spelling certain death later as people rescued.
The entire game is a butterfly effect. Games where you make one mistake can create the illusion of genrushing because everything snowballs so fast from one mistake.
This video was not a good example IMO. Also, after nearly 10 minutes, they didn't even do all the generators with two very good toolboxes and Prove Thyself. That being said, I'm not saying there isn't an issue. Clown on this map in this situation would have been a way better example of being nearly helpless. Really any killer without map control would have been a better example.
This wasn't one.
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Amazing to see that people defend potatoes who go down like flies in a chase and all they honestly could do was sitting at a gen.
Strange that you demand so much of a single person and so little of 4 others.
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So, I watched the entire video.
First I'm gonna point out the tools survivors had. Two NUTTY toolboxes, and toolboxes are getting changed soon. The guy who escaped had a full on gen jockey build.
As good as he is in the game, Otz has quite a few questionable builds. He had 3 tracking perks. THREE. That's ######### overkill. When you run a build like that you can expect to know where survivors are all the time, but you can also expect the game to go by pretty fast. Corrupt Intervention wins him that early game by a landslide since the survivors would have to physically move to a closer generator. Pop would screw them over pretty bad too after the first down. Also Zanshin Tactics was useful in a single moment and that's it. I know the meta is strict and it sucks but you can't run a bad build and expect things to go smoothly.
Yes, the survivors played poorly, but he didn't have his best game either. He missed slugging chances and deliberately ate a DS. Those moments alone cost him a lot of pressure.
Ahd he still killed someone at 2 gens left. This is pretty much a guaranteed win for a killer with mobility.
This game has strong killers and weak killers. Billy is a strong killer. If the survivors don't have a good early game vs him they're doomed. That's what keeps him in check. I firmly believe that match would've looked very different without toolbox gen speed and if he hadn't made the mistakes he made. It would've been a 3-4k with 3 gens up, which is a stomp, pure and simply. Toolboxes are getting changed, so there's that. And even if that game made it to 1 gen left with everyone alive, he would've had options because late game favors killers way more than the early game.
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This is... literally what we’re saying, Scott. A single additional mistake on Otz’s part or even the decision to play a Killer who isn’t top tier would have completely cost him this game, despite the fact that he was clearly so much better than these Survivors. The fact that Survivors came so close to victory when they were getting this stomped goes to show that Killers literally cannot afford to make a single mistake while Survivors can afford to make plenty. Hell, if he was playing some trash tier meme machine like Legion or Plague, he could have played literally perfectly and it wouldn’t have mattered.
The point isn’t whether or not he won. The point is that he came so close to not winning as a top-tier Killer who was clearly leagues above all four of the Survivors in terms of skill.
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Imagine him being a low mobility killer, like wraith, leatherface, pig or Doctor.
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The posture Otz is taking with this video is dissapointing me, he is just feeding the divide between killers and survivors even further.
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I'm not sure what that video is meant to prove.
Yes the gens went fast but the killer won!!!
What do you want? to win with 2 or 3 gens as opposed to 1? what does it say to survivors? "hey you guys brought toolboxes and did the gens lightning fast but you still lose lol gg"
How do you expect the devs to justify increasing gen times when the killer wins?
Also a few points...
1) Nobody said toolboxes were balanced. Everyone has agreed they should be nerfed.
2) This is a bad map for Billy. A bad map with 2 great toolboxes with add ons and Billy still won
3) Otz wasn't playing that great. I'm not going to nitpick every little thing he did because I don't expect anyone to play perfect but bring ######### zanshin tactics over Pop was ridiculous, Pop would have made a big impact on that early gen. Likewise he's complaining about multiple survivors trying to genrush in front of him....so he goes and tunnels the person who just got off hook knowing full well he will eat a DS and get nothing for the chase, and let survivors finish that gen. Dumb move. Imagine if he popped the gen then put pressure on the 3 survivors that were trying to rush it.
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He didn't just make "one" mistake. I'm saying I saw one massive mistake in the first two minutes. During that time he also smashed into a bunch of ######### (being Yamaoka's that's totally fair).
Both sides are going to make numerous mistakes. No one ever plays perfectly. You say survivors can make more mistakes which again is reliant on the butterfly effect. Say a survivor does make that mistake, gets caught out of position, then gets hooked in a deadzone. Now down the line, he's endangering the rescuer, potentially killing both of them now, all because he made one mistake at one point. People pay attention to things like DS and Unbreakable and say "Look at all the second chances survivors have" which again, I don't disagree with, it can be annoying as hell getting "outperked", but they also tend to ignore the fact that survivor mistakes can be just as costly as killer mistakes.
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You mean in dbd as a whole? I would have to respectfully disagree.
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I understand you disagree. So I'm asking what some of the game theory is.
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I can understand git gudder but a killer with more map pressure? He's playing Billy. The only person who has more map pressure is old nurse. That just points out how broken the game is. We got like 19 killers and only 3 of them are viable at red rank. Now that I think about it at any rank cause MM is so messed up red ranks can pop up no matter what rank killer is.
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Well there are theoretical chase times and patrol times. Theoretical applications of certain perks and items/add ons. Overall theoretical efficiency and mindgaming is a big piece of the pie. Like I said, I'm not yet an expert myself so I can't explain all of the nuance.
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Yes, they can be. The issue is, they often aren’t. Second chance Perks are one thing, but dropping a pallet or two a little early or getting hit when you shouldn’t have will usually be meaningless if you are given the resources (spelt “loops”) to keep the Killer going further. That and, well, unlike Killers, Survivors have 3 entire teammates to pick up their slack. A killer simply cannot be in multiple places at once and reach people from afar in a timely manner, unless that’s the idea behind their power, like Hag or Huntress.
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Well...are you expecting the role in which you are 100% of the team to somehow be less stressful and less reliant on mistakes than the role in which you are 25% of your team?
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Otz played extremely well as usual but the survivors just kept holding m1 on the gens and regrouping onto the next gen when disturbed and most likely looking at it àn swf on comms.
Otz had never seen anything where he didn't get a chase/loop he was literally just downing them one after another but it didn't matter.
A survivor wasn't happy he was tunneled so sent abusive messages afterwards.
I've seen Otz stream and he isn't one of those gimmicky streamers, he analyses things like Tru3T but BHVR just don't care the only balance is the bank balance.
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Having map pressure is not the same as slowdown, is similar but since you cant put pressure in 4 people at once is not exactly the same, slowdown is making gens go slower or make the survivors waste time in other stuff, RBTs, Feral Frenzy, stacks in Dying Light or Tanato are slowdown perks (some stuff is better than other, Pop right now is the best slowing tool of all).
The hook was right there, no need to move an inch, he could literally hook the guy without even walking, he should have hooked Yui at the start and then rush the other gen, you gain time by slugging if the hooks are far away, if they are so close is better to hook and force a save, that also gives you time with the benefit of one less step in the sacrifice.
And you are right they didnt play super good either, they were doing gens in front of his face and that also factors into the insane genrushing, if they werent so bold the gens wouldnt have been completed so fast and believe it or not, such boldness and urge to rush actually worked in his favour by exposing them in ways they shouldnt have exposed themselves, they went all in and lost.
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He did not play "extremely well".
He made quite a few mistakes, some of them out of pure tilt "this survivor is CLEARLY disrespecting me personally by being unhooked so I'll eat the DS and throw 2 generators".
He didn't play poorly, but that was FAR from the best performance I've seen from him.
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Considering it’s meant to be the power role and the entire population of the weak role should have their skills as individuals and as a team consistently strained against the power role, yes, I expect exactly that. Considering Dead By Daylight is meant to be a horror game, meaning Survivors should feel so utterly oppressed and defenseless to the point of fear, I expect that in ever greater quantity.
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OK so I HATE this "power role" discourse. DBD isn't a horror game for anyone who played it for over 10 hours. That's just not how fear works. And no one wants to play a weak role.
You can argue killer overall is weaker than it should be and I'd most likely agree but by god this is a videogame meant to be fun for both sides not a killer player powertrip simulator
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Maybe because it was a 3k BRUTAL KILLER against genrush surviviors that couldnt even loop, 3 gens were completed despite all the pressure from the strongest pressure killer in the game, and thats only with 2 toolboxes? Maybe thats the point? Im not sure.
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Ugh will people please stop with this "power role" and "DBD is a Horror game" bullshit. Neither side should be the power role, it should be balanced so both sides have combined equal power. DBD is a horror game for the first week you play it, then its a cat-and-mouse game for the next 6000 hours.
"Survivors should feel...defenseless to the point of fear." Please. This isn't Amnesia: The Dark Descent. This game would be absolute trash if that's how every survivor felt. "Hey guys lets group and feel like a chew toy for 10 minutes, sounds great!"
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Again, high pressure killers are not supposed to use slowdown, only killers with low pressure use slowdown, so they have more time to apply pressure.
Surviviors lost? Lost what? Killer got 0 (in words) ZERO pips, and Im sure at least some of the surviviors pipped, given the amount of gens done.
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Stop using this garbage ranking system as a metric for wins and losses the devs themselves admitted it's ######### terrible
He killed everyone except the guy who escaped through hatch. He won. GG go next
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Lmao all killers benefit from slowdown bud.
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I don't know, its probably my personal bias, but i don't like Ussylsis at all.
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Do you people not know how the “power role” works? A member of the power role is meant to be so much more powerful than a member of the weak role to the point where the combined force of the multiple members of the weak role are equivalent to the singular force of the power role, assuming everyone is of equal skill. That’s what a “power role” is, and yes, that is what the Killer vs. Survivor match-up should be. Killers need to be the power role because if a Survivor is capable of 1v1ing a Killer of equal skill, then at that point, it’s just a team of 4 versus 1 guy.
There are quadruple the amount of Survivors in a match than there are Killers. By that rule, in order to be properly balanced, a Killer’s kit should be four times stronger than a Survivor’s kit. Otherwise, why would you ever play Killer when you can just play Survivor and have an automatic sheer advantage?
In short: Yes, Killers should be the power role. That’s how this works.
In regards to DBD being a horror game: Yes, I agree, it’s not scary. But the thing is, it’s supposed to be. It’s meant to be. It was designed by its makers to be. If they want it to be scary, then the Killers need to feel overwhelmingly imposing. Simple as.
As for you, Scott...
”This game would be absolute trash if that's how every survivor felt. "Hey guys lets group and feel like a chew toy for 10 minutes, sounds great!"”
Bro, that is literally makes horror games fun. Let me repeat: THAT IS WHY PEOPLE PLAY HORROR GAMES. If people weren’t entertained by feeling like a chew toy, horror would not be nearly as popular a genre as it is. But not only is it popular; it’s oversaturated to a ridiculous degree because of just how much people adore the feeling of being scared from how defenseless they are.
If you don’t want to feel like a chew toy, that’s fine. Don’t play horror games. It’s simple.
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Well it is just that if you don't explain why. He's rank 1 on both sides so at least people know he doesn't have bias. I think he has a good understanding of the devs' mindset for changes and a fun approach to how the game is played.
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Then stop treating this match as fine, because you shouldnt be forced to tunnel against potatoes with toolboxes, as the killer with highest pressure.
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I was being sarcastic, he is clearly a top end player on a top end killer. I agree with everything you said.
Holding M1 in groups of 3 and alternating hooks seems to be all it takes to almost get a win for the survivors in that match.
Poor killer if it ended up being a less skilled player with a killer that isn't in the top 3.
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I know, but that guy talks like Im supposed to use slowdown on every killer every game. If you are playing a killer with huge pressure, you shouldnt have to use slowdown, as devs and surviviors dont like it and you are supposed to "just pressure gens"
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Me: it should be balanced so both sides have combined equal power.
You: Do you people not know how the "power role" works? A member of the power role is meant to be so much more powerful than a member of the weak role to the point where the combined force of the multiple members of the weak role are equivalent to the singular force of the power role
This game really is not played in any duration past its honeymoon phase as a horror game. Very few people think of it like that.
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You’re trying to sit here and tell me that a killer shouldn’t be the power role when they HAVE to be in order to be equal in power to the Survivors. That’s what a power role is. It’s not a role that is distinctly dominant over everyone else without exception; it is a role that is comparatively stronger to make up for its fewer numbers in order to be able to properly combat the larger numbers of the enemy team.
So which is it Scott? Should Killers be the power role, or should they be weak?
Also that use of a 2011-era meme as a reaction image is going to make me puke blood.
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Tru3 is Rank 1 on both sides, but we all know he is biased lol
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Are you claiming that a killer is not stronger than a survivor? Want to make sure I'm arguing your actual viewpoint first.
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Yes, I’m clarifying exactly that. Survivors are capable of 1v1ing a Killer in a chase, even if the Killer is not only of equal skill but actually better than them if the map is something like Hadnofun or Thompson. And even if they aren’t, they can choose to be ludicrously inefficient with pallets and it simply won’t matter if their teammates do gens. And if you abandon that Survivor to pressure gens? Good luck dealing with someone who can actually loop while the guy you abandoned freely does generators with no strain whatsoever. Combine with that the slew of second-chance Perks Survivors have at their disposal, the simple act of spreading out over most maps spreading most Killers thinner than a sheet of paper, and the ludicrously short time needed to crank out gens with 2 or 3 Survivors on them, and... yeah. A single Survivor can cost a Killer the entire game even if they’re bad. Individual Survivors are just as strong as, if not stronger than, Killers.
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Did you forget the part where the killer can ######### kill people and survivors can't.
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Calm down Scott, i think its time to lay off the conversation.
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hold me back i am literally seething with anger over this very serious conversation
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Theoretically, they can. But Survivors don’t really need to do much to prevent that from happening.
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I'm just saying, you have to be crazy to claim a survivor is more powerful than a killer. Easy proof: Start a KYF 1v1 game. Surprise, its impossible to win.
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