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How do you feel about the speed of generator repair and the overall speed of the game?
Is this good?
For a survivor, For a killer,
Let me know what you think.
Comments
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From my perspective it isn't bad but it's still not up to par. This game came out in 2016 and I still believe it's core isn't balanced. For Killer Gens can go very quickly after the first chase and with toolboxes and prove thy self It's still a issue. When I play survivor with bond and prove gens go fairly quick of the killer hasn't downed anyone within 3 gen's. Tbh the game is only fun if the person goes down within a modest time. Then someone goes for the rescue then bam! He's already on the rescuers and bam another hook. The gen's won't pop if that happens. That when the game is nailbitting fun in my opinion. Otherwise it's boring and killer can feel unplayable.
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Yup
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I think the biggest problem is wait time ratio to game time. It's not inherently bad that the games are relatively short, but the amount of wait time you have to go through makes it awful.
I think the things that should be fixed first are matchmaking, maps, moris, keys, and toolboxes. Those are the biggest culprits to bad experiences as of right now.
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Generator time is actually stupid, 80 seconds to complete a generator solo without any perks or addons.
Quickest game I've had is 5-6 minutes, who can have fun in that time? Yet survivor mains or the devs don't see an issue, smh.
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Honestly it’s insanely fast.
It’s good for the survivors, horrible for the killer.
But even when I play survivor and the game ends in 5 minutes it’s not fun at all.
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Gen speed comes down to what Killer it is.
A high tier Killer. Current gen times are either on par, or can be too slow for Survivors to have a chance. Odds are, a good high tier Killer can kill faster than Survivors can work gens.
A mid tier Killer. Gen times tend to be in a good spot more often than not. Yes you will have super fast gen times here or there, but you will also have games that the Killer will stomp. It depends on what Killer it is and how skilled everyone is in that game.
Low tier Killers. Gen times are HORRIBLE! FAR too fast for a low tier Killer to make progress and odds are you wont do much as Killer but lose the game if everyone is of equal skill.
The question isn't really about gen times. It boils more towards how viable that Killer is. Billy is damned good and gen times might be too slow when against a good Billy. But at the same time Clown is at the other end with gen times being too fast. With how different each Killer plays and how far apart they are from each other in skill potentials, you almost can't have a universal gen time without something being too far one way or the other.
There is a few ways to deal with this.
1- Make gens universal like they are now and have Killer tier lists. Some Killers are just going to be better than others. No way around that so if you favor a sub par Killer, prepare to not do all that well on average and lose games.
2- Make gens times based on the Killer tier. High tier Killers use one set of gen times, Mid tier another, and low tier with its own as well. The devs can figure out what those times are and what Killer belongs in what tier. The community can then play what they want without having certain Killers feel too weak as they would have a handicap,
3- Make gen times based on each individual Killer. Not going to happen in truth. Too much work but would near make certain that each and every Killer has a "fair" chance to do his job before it's too late.
I like #2 the most. But I just don't see any of this happening though. Low tier Killers will ALWAYS be low tier because they aren't good enough. Giving them longer gen times would likely prolong their games too much and just drag things out a bit too much.
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For me unbalanced time frames for both sides. For survivor insanely fast gen speeds, well organised teams can finish in 5 mins. For killer its chase and hook every survivor 3x which is impossible in 5 mins. No surprise that killers camp and tunnel because game is so survivor sided.
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The early game gens go way too fast and easy.
There needs to be some kind of mechanic to slow the early gens down.
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Personally they are two fast for me. I play Wraith (I just love sneaking up on survivors when I find them) and I am a new and not a very good Killer getting matched with players 8 ranks in front of me, so that doesn't help. But if I get a bad map, or start in a bad spot and can't find anyone to get a chase started, it sucks. Had a game last night that lasted 5 minutes at most. And this was with me trying to chase a couple times. Never was able to pressure and slow down gens and they were popping them off left and right, even with 3 people working on them. Game was zero fun.
On the flip side though, I had a great match the other night (they were only 7 ranks higher, haha) were 3 gens were very near each other and it was by basement so made for a great 3 gen strat. So I was able to keep them off them and slow them down a bit on the other gens without giving up those 3. By the time they had 4 gens done I had eliminated 1 player, and almost another. Had a blast for about 10 minutes of cat and mouse with the last 3 gens. I ended up getting a 4k (which rarely happens) and had so much fun.
So if I get the right gen setup, and am not over matched by survivors, then they are fine, but more times than not the gens are too fast for me.
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@bob_bobber Hey thanks for asking the question.
I pinned this thread in hope to see a good discussion, different opinions and to read about your concerns. Let's see what you guys think and please keep it clean.
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Awful, they just fly by way too fast in a lot of games. Survivors show no fear and will sit on it and take hits and then go right back on the gen because they have zero fear of the killer, they know they can just plow through the gens faster than you can kill- always. The entire start of the game is moot and like 90% of the game takes place near the end as it's the only time you can actually do anything about the gens, and ONLY if they didn't do them in an order that has like 2 on opposite sides of the entire map.
As survivor though I know it's usually fine at base speed, but when we rush gens and use toolboxes, prove, and all work to do gens together we definitely have a much MUCH higher chance of winning than we should. It's insane. We don't have to do anything else, hell most of us can go an entire game without seeing the killer when we use toolboxes because as soon as someone is getting chased that is a free gen, so even if they down and hook them, we just do that each time and all 5 gens are done and only one person is even on last hook. There is just no way for them to compete.
The early game, toolboxes, and multiple people on one gen are the biggest culprits. Thing is holding M1 on a gen is kinda boring, but it's also why survivor is so much more relaxing and far less stressful than playing killer is. I feel like survivors just need something to get them more engaged more frequently, instead of just sitting on a gen going M2 with a toolbox for like 40 seconds and then going to another gen.
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At the time it is so hard to evaluate the speed of the generators due to the rank disparity. Once we are playing against people of similar skill issues of balance should be the main focus.
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The only part of gens that is possibly an issue is at the start of the game. At this point the killer is at a disadvantage as they need to find someone first to get their first chase going. If that killer finds someone quickly though, gen speed is completely fine (outside of maybe toolboxes, which I’m considering a separate discussion than base speed). If it takes a little time though, it could be bad. That’s why ScottJunds idea is definitely on the right track in giving the killer an assist at the start, but once they find someone and initiate a chase, that assist is removed.
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I have both seen and been apart of games where all of the gens are completed in under 4mins.... this imo shouldnt exist/be possible...
So the gen speed is wayy too fast when you have players focused on the objective given to them.
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Games do go fast a good portion of the time as Killer. As survivor, when I play is 50/50 fast games and slow games. Another problem is wait times as survivor.
A question, how come i have to wait to join a game to wait again for more people to join? Can i just skip the middle man and join in waiting for people in a server? I know i don't know the behind the scenes but i always wondered that.
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Obviously they go to fast
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As a survivor wait 10 to20 mins to play a 5to 7mins game isn't fun.
As a killer three gens pop when i get my first hook is not funny at all(even with 30secs find people 40sec chase 10sec hook.)
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I feel like they are way too quick as a killer. I can find a survivor instantly and down him in no time and still lose two gens by the time they're hooked.
On the other hand m1ing gens is already boring as survivor.
Perhaps a system where the longer you interact with the killer the quicker your personal gen speed is? Whereas people who don't interact and don't win chases against killers have longer gen speeds. if you're hooked it resets.
So people who don't interact do gens at 90% speed and people who do get a gen speed buff 110%?
I haven't thought about this very hard and how tunnelling etc would work with this ^
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Honestly? Standard repair times are largely fine. Toolboxes, Prove Thyself, huge maps, and stacking on a gen are where things can get silly.
Without any of those things, it can already be very difficult for average survivors to get gens done. So changing any of the base times is not a good plan. Prove thyself should be reworked to have nothing to do with gen speeds, stacking on a gen should have a much harsher penalty than it does currently, and toolboxes need to do something other than just improve gen times. Perhaps making working on one quieter or counter perks around gen auras like surveillance or discordance for as long as it's being used.
Point is, you need to work only on the crazy outlier situations and not the general gen times.
Crazy idea for prove thyself:
"Escaping the killer in a chase fills you with confidence, granting you one token, stacking three times. Each token reduces repair/healing/cleansing/opening exit speeds by 9/7/5% but increases movement speed by 3%. At three stacks, gain the broken status. Being hooked removes all tokens."
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The early game goes way too fast due against experienced survivors due to map size and overly safe/numerous pallets. It's tough to apply pressure to experienced survivors with good map knowledge, and you can't pressure 4 survivors at once unless they're spaced suboptimally
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This makes sense, when I first started playing survivor, I would miss skill checks all the time, now when I play Survivor (I mostly play killer) I don't miss that many of them. I can't imagine how easy skill checks are for people that play all the time and our in red and purple ranks.
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I think gen time isn’t in proportion to chase time (especially with the amount of safe pallets) and the time to find survivors because of how insanely big most maps are. Low mobility killers really suffer the most because it takes ages to get from one side of the map to the other.
items like toolboxes and keys are now even stronger, perks like prove thyself are just unfun to go against and as a killer you just sometimes feel helpless because survivors are able to hold m1 faster than you are able to find, chase and hook a survivor.
Now that it’s almost guaranteed that you will lose around 2 gens before the game really started, killers get punished harder for mistakes than before as losing a gen is more meaningful now when you only have 2 or 3 left during the rest of the game.
On the other hand I play survivor too and while it’s genuinely boring to do gens so I have always been against increasing gen time or something similar. If a new objective were to be introduced, it has to be engaging enough for survivors.
I also suggest offerings like mories (and keys) and addons like Iri head get looked into. In my eyes they’re just as unfair and really make unfun and shift the balance of the game.
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The game is way to fast. I have to commit to 3 gens way to early to be consistent. This strategy gets really old and stale.
I can bring mori, camp,or tunnel to get a survivor out early. This strategy is effective but not good for the health of the game.
The amount of toolboxes being brought in the past few weeks is compounding the issue. But its DBD... oneside loves to kick the otherside when their down.
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This game will NEED to follow a ranked system that changes gameplay as a person ranks up. So it begins to feel balanced. AN average ranking system will need to adjust the following.
- NUMBER of generators on map.
- Number of hooks on the map
I know there will be the discussion of the following:
- If the players are throwing games to lower the difficulty of the match.
- SWF vs PUG, vs De PIp Squads. - What match quality changes could there be?
- People creating "Smurff" accounts to avoid a certain rank.
Ultimately the system may just be fine where it really only can be. Since people circumvent ranking systems all the time. It might just come down to not having a rank, and using a system that tips the scale of the match all together. So if it feels like it is moving too fast or too slow. It can compensate for that. Which would be a HEADACHE for programmers.
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While I sympathise with the time pressure placed on killer caused by generator-speed, I also try to see it from the other side.
If survivors weren't able to pump out all 5 generators within 2 minutes, it would mean that in order to win the killer just needs to camp everyone on the hook to death, since the survivors have no meaningful way to punish it. Thus making fast generators a nessecary evil.
Map design, and survivors stacking up 2nd chance perks are more of a problem in my opinion. If you have a big map like Mother's Dwelling or a map littered with zero-counterplay loops like Blood Lodge, there is really nothing the killer can do if survivors are determined to finish the generators. The chasetime and the time it takes for killers to patrol generators is what causes the imbalance in my opinion.
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I think the gen speed times are too fast for most killers without mobility. But I think just increasing gen times would be boring. I think to make it so survivors and killers interact, survivors should have to find fuel and parts to repair gens, or at least make them repair faster. So Increase base time on gens by 150% but make it that if you find a part or fuel it returns them to 100%, and then 90%, and capping out at 85% for finding three of these items.
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I think games go too fast, and players aren't able to do everything they need to most times.
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Honestly, a good way to change that is to remove the hook timer altogether. Camping is now utterly pointless. Everyone gets three hook phases (replacing the struggle mashing with a simple give up button), and now we can slow other things down some.
Can still leave the penalty for trying to Kobe as three failed attempts will put you into struggle phase. Have it so that if you're the last survivor in the trial and you were already hooked, it just kills you instead of drawing it out.
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I think BHVR already received quite a lot of information before you did.
Tru3talent, Otzdarva, Scott Jund, and many steamers and feedbacks in this webboard mentioned in the same way.
The result of your decision make more problem such as broken rank system, lack of killers, lobby waiting, more camping & tunneling, always high tier killers facing.
I hope you need listen voice of customer before it's too late.
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For me the speed is just miserable. I don't queue 10 mins just to get a 6 min game. I want to actually play the game. I wish the games lasted about 15 mins at least to see a story pan out in each match, instead of this horror sanic gotta go fast style at the moment. As it is now most games pan out the same way, 5 gens go down by the time 2 hooks have occurred and then the survivors group up to bully the killer, or just leave if there's a noed. It's really sad.
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When i play as survivor it seems slow, when i play a killer the gens are too fast. Survivors have to realize that gen rushing too fast keeps them from piping.
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I'm doing just fine as killer.
As survivor, I keep getting matched against inexperienced players, so I have to actively avoid progressing the game (I. E. Doing gens), just so I can get chased at least a couple of times
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Generators pop much too quickly. Lately, within a matter of 20 seconds, a Generator will be done. Some matches are terrible for me, others I could come back from and still kill all Survivors. It just depends.
It would be awesome if there was a Hex or Killer Perk for a Generator to be irreparable. For example, the Generator would appear as normal, but it would be too broken to actually work, sort of a zombie Generator. And that Generator wouldn't count as part of the five, it would just fizzle out when completed. The Survivors would still get their Bloodpoints, though.
I think that would be fair; it would buy the Killer more time if Survivors wasted time with that particular Generator or Generators; the highest would be two per match. Or, if that's too brutal, the Generators would, instead, have to be repaired twice.
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I'm happy if I get a couple hooks before last 2 gens, but they better by damned good to get through the 8 traps around my 3 gen lol
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Gens are too quick for the state the game is in now. Neither side can really enjoy a game when the objectives are done in 5 minutes. However, any longer without having something else to do as a survivor is just boring. At the same time, as a killer you are under immense pressure to be perfect because by the time you get a single down, a gen has been done. I've seen 4 gens in 3 minutes multiple times. "Just pressure the gens" they say. Yeah, pressuring 4 people at once is kiiiinda virtually impossible if at least one of them is off doing other gens.
Gotta admit though, it's funny when you're a survivor when the gens fly by, but definitely disheartening when you're playing as a killer, think they'd feel like giving up. Same with chases, it's fun as survivor, way too stressful as killer. Lead a killer to a pallet, stun him, click click the flashlight. Watch and laugh as he gets blinded for kicking it. Then repeat. Ya feel powerful, and for me that's enjoyable. But, from the other perspective it's goes like this: Oh look, a safe pallet. Oh wow, blinded if I try to kick it, looped if I don't. I'll go off to find a different survivor, even though I just wasted a minute and had a gen go off.
Honestly, it's why I don't understand if the balance team understand their game or not. Make it easier for survivors who already don't have to do much, but make killers have to sweat even more than the swimming pool they filled already? It's no wonder matchmaking times have increased. Think Civ 5 has most of our killer playerbase now.
In short.
Too quick. Needs some sort of slowdown to at least the start of the game.
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To have this discussion you really need to define what level of experience the players have. For new players, it's fine. New players (especially survivors) have a terrible time just focusing on the game objectives and have very short chases. If anything, I would say the new player experience favors the killer since it easier to learn.
But really, what most people on this forum focus on is the more experienced side of things. The balance really does shift in the survivors favor at the higher end of things. If survivors focus on their objectives properly and actually buy their team time in a chase then the killer is going to have a rough time. By the time the killer walks across the map its been 20 seconds and several gens are over a quarter done! The killer can only chase one survivor at a time so if you come across multiple survivors on a gen they will run in opposite directions. Whichever one you don't chase is immediately on the gen again.
That is not to say that it is impossible to compete for killers but many of the killers will struggle due to their lack of mobility and map size. That only leaves a handful of killer choices that can actually be competitive. The added pressure of gen speeds also pushes killers into using unsavory tactics like tunneling. There is just no substitute for releasing gen speed pressure to having fewer survivors. All of this leads to fewer options on who to play and how to play if you actually want to succeed as a killer.
So if the goal of the game is to be fun then gen speeds are indeed a problem. There are numerous solutions available too.
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You don't speak for everyone. I don't find being chased fun at all. I much prefer stealthing around the killer when he's near. The only time I enjoy a chase is if I can give the killer the slip. Running in circles and dropping pallets has never been fun for me.
For similar reasons, playing as killer is not very enjoyable for me in general. I don't enjoy hitting people or running in circles. I tend to play as fairly as possible and feel bad about killing them unless they get salty about it in endgame chat.
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Never said I was speaking for everyone.
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The game overall goes too fast in my opinion.
There's a drastic difference in the time it takes for a Killer to complete their objective and a Survivor to get there's done. This can change with different tactics like slugging or camping but if you want to play "Fair" meaning chasing, downing and hooking 4 Survivors 3 different times each then If both sides at an equal level usually the game will favor the Survivors.
There's also the matter of the beginning of the match being skewed in the Survivors favor since they have nothing to do but Generators while the killers is traversing the map, looking for survivors or setting up.
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You didn't say you were talking strictly about yourself. You said "when you play" and "when you do". Using 'you' instead of 'I' means you're referring to the reader, not yourself.
In other words, everything you said, you implied was the truth for everyone that read it. It may not have been your intention, but it's what you said.
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When I play survivor usually we dominate the poor killer because they’re only a green or purple rank going against red ranks and that’s not fair first of all so gens fly and when I play killer I’m constantly having to juggle because I commit to a chase for too long gens will fly but I haven’t had much of a problem with that since I’m a pretty good doc.
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My opinion is that generators can be done insanely fast. Very often scenario is that 1st gen pop-up before killer can even cross map. This is technicaly changing survivors objective only to 4 gens. On the first side you have survivors that can finish game in few minutes and on the other side there are killers that have to find, chase and hook survivor and repeat it X times depending on playstyle and survivors second chance perks. It seems that killers dont have enough time to play properly meanwhile well organised survivors can finish game in few minutes.
Jokes aside, you guys should look about gen times, its inevitable fact if you want keep healthy killer players base. As you can see, lack of killers is resulting in matchmaking where killer rank 10 is assigned vs 1-3 rank survivors. Instead of reworking matchmaking system, focus on gameplay problems that disbalance game for one side.
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The speed would be fine if the 2-3 early game gens didn't pop that fast...
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No no, you misunderstand. Though I did not mention I was speaking for everyone on the subject. I did purposefully imply it.
Reasoning for why I used, "you" instead of, "I" is that I believe the majority would agree with what I said, thus I stated it as a fact. Admittedly I should have stated "most" when referring to either side, but having it as though the reader would agree with what is said helps to convince most of what you're saying to be the truth. Bit dishonest, I know. But I'll do what I must for the game I feel can be so much better.
See what I did there? I typed it as though it is a fact, which makes for a slightly more convincing tone. At least in my opinion.
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It isn't good...I feel the game has changed too much since the Ruin change. Survivor is too easy and Killer is too hard. Killers like the Trapper or Hag don't have time to set traps at the start because gens will go off within the first half-minute. I've been playing survivor and even I find it too easy. Its not fun for killers if they feel this much pressure.
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And hence I was staying that it was, indeed, not a fact. Just your personal preference. Then I offered my own as counterpoint. I love stealth. Even playing as Kate in bright pinkish purple clothing.
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At the start of the game and on big maps gens are too fast.
After a chase or 2 gen times are fine on most maps.
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To me it's not "keep Killer busy by chasing and have a fun time trying to not get downed and lose the killer", it's "alright 4 people on 1 gen and let's get this game down in a minute or two then t-bag at gates".
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I'll be honest, they feel way too fast on both sides. I primarily play killer, and having three gens pop at the first hook is absolutely demoralizing.
When I do play survivor, it still seems way too fast. Unless the killer is absolutely amazing at spreading pressure out to everyone and can track all survivors at least reasonably, it seems like my first gen usually pops before I even see the killer. I might hear their TR for a few seconds, but it's pretty rare that I have to actually worry on the first gen. After that, I'll probably see the killer, but I'm typically about 75% finished with the next gen before they find me. By that point, it doesn't matter how poorly I do at the chase. I can get unhooked, run back to my gen, finish it, and then usually every gen is completed. This is entirely without speed perks or toolboxes, since, I'll be honest, I see how unpleasant they are to play against on the other side, so I try to avoid them.
I know the devs don't want to increase gen times or add secondary objectives, but it doesn't really feel like things are playing right at the moment. I'd like to see something, I don't really care what, to shake things up a little when working on gens. And please don't just make it another bandaid perk, especially after removing the bandaid of Ruin.
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I think we should have The Entity act as an overlord throughout the match. Adjusting things as they happen. Like the Director in Left4Dead.
"Oh three gens popped around the same time? /slows down repair speeds
"The killer has 2 people on a hook and 4 gens left?" /speeds up repair speeds
"This survivor is leading the killer on a really long chase?" /slow down gens
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