No reason to cage a survivor at all? So you won't be complaining about DS then? Or Borrowed Time? Or Kindred? Or several perks that don't work with cages.
What? This changes literally nothing about optimal caging. You cage in place of a slug or in cases when it wouldn't be safe to pick up a survivor. The whole point is to quickly advance the game and resume chase on someone else. He's still an A tier killer who can put out an immense amount of pressure.
i genuinely want to know, why do you think that is a viable play? why do you do it and what do you get out of doing it? also, what rank are you? you say you don’t camp cages unless game’s lost, but you’ll go straight to one after putting someone in one? there’s three other survivors in the game that are possibly popping gens but you’ll go straight to someone in a cage, that can’t do anything? do you consider the game over once those gens get popped as soon as you make it to said survivor in a cage? im sorry i just have a whole lot of questions.
Rank 1 PH main. The easiest way to get someone out of the game is to torment him, put him on a hook, then cage him and finally kill him. That way you avoid any DS. Killing a survivor quickly gives you an insane advantage over survivors. There's no better way to pressure them. Obviously, it's not always as easy. I often have to switch targets, but the idea is here. Using cages to deny DS and BT.
I don't camp cages but the saves are usually instant so when I get to the cage, the survivor is already free. And that is often a bad move of them, because as soon as the survivor is rescued, I can kill him.
Yeah but he also denies all survivor hook related perks. On top of that survivors have no way to save someone from being caged like they do with a hook (flahlights, taking hits, sabo, pallet stuns, head on).
This is a trade off with the cages I am okay with. Yes you as killer get slightly less map awareness, but you get a guaranteed hook state.
If you don't know where the cages are anymore outside of vague ideas, then hook perks not working...doesn't really matter anymore. The only thing it blocks is that "59 second DS where I hooked someone else and forgot I even hooked you." situation which shouldn't exist in the first place. Feels like a weak reason to justify loss of information.
Yeah, the maps are so killersided with up to 30 pallets and survivors still having the loopexploit not fixed (nor will it ever be) while being able to play in SWF ontop of up to 3 extra hookstates per survivor through perks depending on how hard the killer is stomping them or how aggressive the survivor with DS is.
Dat free down that killers get, woe the poor survivors and their limited resources.
Definitely wouldn't go that far. If you only used it to camp the cage and then tunnel them knowing full well that Borrowed Time or Decisive Strike wouldn't activate, then sure, it's going to be less appealing now (as it should be). Under normal circumstances, however, it still has benefits. Putting them in a cage sends them as far away from you as it can, so if you know all the other survivors are close, you can force them to go across the map to save them. It also allows you to completely avoid flashlight or pallet saves, and saves you the time you would spend picking them up and bringing them to a hook.
Do you just keep choosing to ignore everything I keep saying about saves? Cages prevent survivors from making any attempt at saving there friend in combination of disabling perks.
Why does everyone keep overlooking the fact that cages also prevent Flashlight Saves, Pallet Stun Saves, Head on Saves, Wiggle Saves, Taking Hit Saves, Breakout Saves, Flip-flop Saves, Sabo Saves. It
These simply do not exist, people keep calling it a free survivor save, which is only half true, but it is also a free hook state, which is fully true. There simply is no way to counter some one from being sent to a cage, period.
@Peanits I've been stating this over and over, my figures feel like they are going to bleed.
Why does everyone keep overlooking the fact that cages also prevent Flashlight Saves, Pallet Stun Saves, Head on Saves, Wiggle Saves, Taking Hit Saves, Breakout Saves, Flip-flop Saves, Sabo Saves. These simply do not exist, people keep calling it a free survivor save, which is only half true, but it is also a free hook state, which is fully true. There simply is no way to counter some one from being sent to a cage, period.
Why would I not then just play the Pig? She is guaranteed to waste time with the traps, even if they get them off on the first box. You can't always know the position of the other survivors, so caging is a risk. You could easily send them across the map to a teammate and then you gained nothing. His power feels utterly pointless now.
So... a core part of PH's kit of which the majority of his addons are based on is extremely situational, and you see no issue in this? And you think that the survivors knowing that the PH can't realistically guard his cages because he can't see them doesn't have any affect on his overall map pressure, regardless of if he actually intended to tunnel / camp or not?
So the camping ability of the killer is what you look at when buying a killer?
As per usual a Killer gets a tweak and everyone is up in arms about it. It’s literally only a nerf to campers. All those who make an immediate beeline for the caged survivor are the ones crying about the “nerf”.
If you can cage, AND hook two Survivors after, then you don't NEED the aura information. Either continue playing exceptionally well, or let the Survivors continue to play exceptionally bad, whichever the case in this scenario may be.
You'd be surprised at how easy it is to miss a feature or mechanic you weren't thinking about, and then about a thousand people play that character for a week and figure out at least a dozen things you didn't expect to happen. It happens all the time in video games, the Speedrunning community is practically built on unintended features and bugs.
Because I can count in a single hand the number of times either of these things have affected me within the past 50 games or so. Not too difficult to recognize you downed a survivor under a pallet or a survivor brought a flashlight in. Or even better, bring Infectious Fright which is already useful on PH regardless. And Flip-Flop / Breakout? Seriously???
@Peanits The patch notes for pyramid head might as well read "We changed Pyramid head cages to give free unhooks to the survivor". I don't even know how you managed change a mechanic that is intended to help the killer win the game(Tunneling) into a mechanic that helps survivor win the game(Caging). Welcome to 2020 where we turn killers power into survivor tools.
Exactly. I don’t understand why people are whining. Hook perks still don’t work out of the cage for whatever reason but the main issue was the absurd and ridiculous tunneling/camping people would experience.
If the game is that much of a steamroll, I would enjoy being able to bring it to a close rather than draw it out. Nothing worse than a game where you perform well enough that the remaining two survivors start hiding in hopes I find the other first so they can get the hatch. If I can't make an intelligent play until after the save has already occurred (due to the sound) then it's actively just drawing the game out at that ponit.
I didn't say that the maps were killer sided. There are massive dead zones and no map has 30 pallets. My point was simple. It's ridiculous to cry that you can't tunnel as easy before.
while yes, thats true, but this is a videogame. getting camped and tunneled to death as survivor with no counter to it really isnt a pleasant experience
here we go again with the whining..... This update was specifically focused on the ability for PH to see the Aura of his cages and being able to go to it and camp it either denying a cage rescue or immediately downing the caged survivor resulting in an instant death or instant hook knowing damn well hook perks won’t activate as Peanits stated. Removing the ability to camp it and tunnel the survivor has not changed anything. Simply don’t camp or tunnel when there are 3 other survivors you have to worry about completing gens.
It’s not pointless. You’re just mad you can’t camp or tunnel the survivor out of it anymore. Hook perks still don’t work out of the cage so why are you whining? Maybe you should patrol the generators. After all, there are 3 OTHER survivors not just 1
If you find the cage and stay around it for a little bit, it teleports somewhere else which might cause them to go into "struggle phase" if no one gets to them in time. It's a low key buff to the power without having to be camping tunneling trash
*ding ding ding* Ladies and gentleman, we have a winner. Someone who just blatantly admits that they just want to tunnel and use boring strats to make the game easier for themselves.
This isn't a missed feature or a bug. They sat down at a drawing table and said, let's make a killer that did x, y, and z. They then either don't have enough experience to realize how players will use x,y, and z, or they knew going into it z was going to be nerfed after they made money on it
Well first off, the devs have said that camping and tunneling are valid strategies; I don't follow the baby survivor rule book. Second, I easily can tunnel if I want to since I main the Nurse. People with DS rarely ever live against my Nurse. This change just creates one less killer who can legit counter survivors.
Okay? No one mentioned or asked you to follow the survivor rule book. Obviously the Devs said camping is a strategy but that dosen’t mean they SUPPORT it. obviously they’re against it because they nerfed the ability to camp cages right? Everything happens for a reason. So if you rely on camping and tunneling to win then play your “Nurse” but sorry, you’re not gonna get much value of camping with PH after this patch (:
This isn't about tunneling. The nerf is lack of info, since you don't know where the cage is, when he's saved, you don't know where the saving player was.
The counter is DS. That's what it's designed for and it's extremely powerful. People act like they have no tools against being tunneled when they have the most powerful perk in the game, on both sides, by far.
Just continue to make "inteligent plays" by going to the opposite side of the map. The cage always spawns on the opposite side. Not sure if it will spawn on the back left or the back right? Don't walk straight down the middle. Walk toward the back left and patrol the edge of the map heading right, or vice versa.
Oh... Your "intelligent plays" were just BBQ holding your hand and giving you momentum, but caging doesn't proc BBQ nor show you the white cage aura anymore, so now you have to think for yourself... Poor thing.
Eh I liked knowing where the cage spawned so Id know the location of 2 survivors for future knowledge, but its not a big deal. I rarely use the cages anyway unless i feel DS is in play or i can start a chase with another survivor immediately.
Ah yes, let me remember exactly where I downed the first person while I go chase and down two other people, then go to the opposite side of the map from that point, not the second nor third person I hooked. Clearly the burden should be on me to remember precisely where this happened so I can get a vague idea of where I'm going next.
Also I find it interesting you brought up BBQ when that has nothing to do with what we're discussing. I don't run it on PHead as I find it counterintuitive at best on him, and I don't run it on my favorite Wraith build either who is my most played killer right now. So if you want to have an actual discussion, constructing a strawman with a perk that has no current bearing on the conversation is not the way to actually counterpoint.
Yet the loss of info has big implications at high level..you gave nothing to compensate for that somewhere else in his kit just for the sake of feels , that's what's not cool about this
Imagine if ANY killer could instead of hooking. Simply press a button and that person go to ANY hook on the map the catch is the killer can't see it AND can't use BBQ. Why in the WORLD would any killer want that? With the lack of aura information this is exactly what the nerf does to PH. He now has a completely obsolete part of his power.
Some peoeple are willing to play stupid. Him seeing the aura is OBVIOUSLY supposed to be what makes the power useful. Its now gone....
Ironically the only thing cages are useful for? Evading D striek while facecamping during an end game scenario FFS you guys.....
maybe you should focus on gens and finding other survivors instead of trying to camp cages ? idk just a suggestion
I don't camp cages unless the game is already lost. But I often go to the cages straight up after caging the survivor.
I’m with you 100%
No reason to cage a survivor at all? So you won't be complaining about DS then? Or Borrowed Time? Or Kindred? Or several perks that don't work with cages.
What? This changes literally nothing about optimal caging. You cage in place of a slug or in cases when it wouldn't be safe to pick up a survivor. The whole point is to quickly advance the game and resume chase on someone else. He's still an A tier killer who can put out an immense amount of pressure.
So you’re complaining that you can’t just go to the cage and tunnel the uncaged survivor? Just go find someone working on a gen
i genuinely want to know, why do you think that is a viable play? why do you do it and what do you get out of doing it? also, what rank are you? you say you don’t camp cages unless game’s lost, but you’ll go straight to one after putting someone in one? there’s three other survivors in the game that are possibly popping gens but you’ll go straight to someone in a cage, that can’t do anything? do you consider the game over once those gens get popped as soon as you make it to said survivor in a cage? im sorry i just have a whole lot of questions.
Rank 1 PH main. The easiest way to get someone out of the game is to torment him, put him on a hook, then cage him and finally kill him. That way you avoid any DS. Killing a survivor quickly gives you an insane advantage over survivors. There's no better way to pressure them. Obviously, it's not always as easy. I often have to switch targets, but the idea is here. Using cages to deny DS and BT.
I don't camp cages but the saves are usually instant so when I get to the cage, the survivor is already free. And that is often a bad move of them, because as soon as the survivor is rescued, I can kill him.
So why didn't the devs know this before they released him? They couldn't anticipate that people would use his power to tunnel or camp?
They do this Everytime a killer is released, they make him good and then nerf him after they cash the check.
The only other explanation is they don't even bother playing as their own characters so they didn't see the issue with the cages at all.
Overall, I can only conclude they intentionally deceive buyers or just don't care.
Yeah but he also denies all survivor hook related perks. On top of that survivors have no way to save someone from being caged like they do with a hook (flahlights, taking hits, sabo, pallet stuns, head on).
This is a trade off with the cages I am okay with. Yes you as killer get slightly less map awareness, but you get a guaranteed hook state.
If you don't know where the cages are anymore outside of vague ideas, then hook perks not working...doesn't really matter anymore. The only thing it blocks is that "59 second DS where I hooked someone else and forgot I even hooked you." situation which shouldn't exist in the first place. Feels like a weak reason to justify loss of information.
And there you have you it. You're annoyed that his tunneling ability just got nerfed.
you got it.
Yeah, the maps are so killersided with up to 30 pallets and survivors still having the loopexploit not fixed (nor will it ever be) while being able to play in SWF ontop of up to 3 extra hookstates per survivor through perks depending on how hard the killer is stomping them or how aggressive the survivor with DS is.
Dat free down that killers get, woe the poor survivors and their limited resources.
Definitely wouldn't go that far. If you only used it to camp the cage and then tunnel them knowing full well that Borrowed Time or Decisive Strike wouldn't activate, then sure, it's going to be less appealing now (as it should be). Under normal circumstances, however, it still has benefits. Putting them in a cage sends them as far away from you as it can, so if you know all the other survivors are close, you can force them to go across the map to save them. It also allows you to completely avoid flashlight or pallet saves, and saves you the time you would spend picking them up and bringing them to a hook.
Nah that's to complex. Them little baboon brains want the simple easy way.
Do you just keep choosing to ignore everything I keep saying about saves? Cages prevent survivors from making any attempt at saving there friend in combination of disabling perks.
Why does everyone keep overlooking the fact that cages also prevent Flashlight Saves, Pallet Stun Saves, Head on Saves, Wiggle Saves, Taking Hit Saves, Breakout Saves, Flip-flop Saves, Sabo Saves. It
These simply do not exist, people keep calling it a free survivor save, which is only half true, but it is also a free hook state, which is fully true. There simply is no way to counter some one from being sent to a cage, period.
Peanits, the voice of reason here who isn't afraid to call out whiners on their BS.
@Peanits I've been stating this over and over, my figures feel like they are going to bleed.
Why does everyone keep overlooking the fact that cages also prevent Flashlight Saves, Pallet Stun Saves, Head on Saves, Wiggle Saves, Taking Hit Saves, Breakout Saves, Flip-flop Saves, Sabo Saves. These simply do not exist, people keep calling it a free survivor save, which is only half true, but it is also a free hook state, which is fully true. There simply is no way to counter some one from being sent to a cage, period.
Why would I not then just play the Pig? She is guaranteed to waste time with the traps, even if they get them off on the first box. You can't always know the position of the other survivors, so caging is a risk. You could easily send them across the map to a teammate and then you gained nothing. His power feels utterly pointless now.
So... a core part of PH's kit of which the majority of his addons are based on is extremely situational, and you see no issue in this? And you think that the survivors knowing that the PH can't realistically guard his cages because he can't see them doesn't have any affect on his overall map pressure, regardless of if he actually intended to tunnel / camp or not?
they don’t wanna hear you lol
So the camping ability of the killer is what you look at when buying a killer?
As per usual a Killer gets a tweak and everyone is up in arms about it. It’s literally only a nerf to campers. All those who make an immediate beeline for the caged survivor are the ones crying about the “nerf”.
If you can cage, AND hook two Survivors after, then you don't NEED the aura information. Either continue playing exceptionally well, or let the Survivors continue to play exceptionally bad, whichever the case in this scenario may be.
You'd be surprised at how easy it is to miss a feature or mechanic you weren't thinking about, and then about a thousand people play that character for a week and figure out at least a dozen things you didn't expect to happen. It happens all the time in video games, the Speedrunning community is practically built on unintended features and bugs.
Because I can count in a single hand the number of times either of these things have affected me within the past 50 games or so. Not too difficult to recognize you downed a survivor under a pallet or a survivor brought a flashlight in. Or even better, bring Infectious Fright which is already useful on PH regardless. And Flip-Flop / Breakout? Seriously???
@Peanits The patch notes for pyramid head might as well read "We changed Pyramid head cages to give free unhooks to the survivor". I don't even know how you managed change a mechanic that is intended to help the killer win the game(Tunneling) into a mechanic that helps survivor win the game(Caging). Welcome to 2020 where we turn killers power into survivor tools.
Exactly. I don’t understand why people are whining. Hook perks still don’t work out of the cage for whatever reason but the main issue was the absurd and ridiculous tunneling/camping people would experience.
If the game is that much of a steamroll, I would enjoy being able to bring it to a close rather than draw it out. Nothing worse than a game where you perform well enough that the remaining two survivors start hiding in hopes I find the other first so they can get the hatch. If I can't make an intelligent play until after the save has already occurred (due to the sound) then it's actively just drawing the game out at that ponit.
I didn't say that the maps were killer sided. There are massive dead zones and no map has 30 pallets. My point was simple. It's ridiculous to cry that you can't tunnel as easy before.
while yes, thats true, but this is a videogame. getting camped and tunneled to death as survivor with no counter to it really isnt a pleasant experience
here we go again with the whining..... This update was specifically focused on the ability for PH to see the Aura of his cages and being able to go to it and camp it either denying a cage rescue or immediately downing the caged survivor resulting in an instant death or instant hook knowing damn well hook perks won’t activate as Peanits stated. Removing the ability to camp it and tunnel the survivor has not changed anything. Simply don’t camp or tunnel when there are 3 other survivors you have to worry about completing gens.
It’s not pointless. You’re just mad you can’t camp or tunnel the survivor out of it anymore. Hook perks still don’t work out of the cage so why are you whining? Maybe you should patrol the generators. After all, there are 3 OTHER survivors not just 1
100% THIS.
If you find the cage and stay around it for a little bit, it teleports somewhere else which might cause them to go into "struggle phase" if no one gets to them in time. It's a low key buff to the power without having to be camping tunneling trash
*ding ding ding* Ladies and gentleman, we have a winner. Someone who just blatantly admits that they just want to tunnel and use boring strats to make the game easier for themselves.
This isn't a missed feature or a bug. They sat down at a drawing table and said, let's make a killer that did x, y, and z. They then either don't have enough experience to realize how players will use x,y, and z, or they knew going into it z was going to be nerfed after they made money on it
Well first off, the devs have said that camping and tunneling are valid strategies; I don't follow the baby survivor rule book. Second, I easily can tunnel if I want to since I main the Nurse. People with DS rarely ever live against my Nurse. This change just creates one less killer who can legit counter survivors.
Okay? No one mentioned or asked you to follow the survivor rule book. Obviously the Devs said camping is a strategy but that dosen’t mean they SUPPORT it. obviously they’re against it because they nerfed the ability to camp cages right? Everything happens for a reason. So if you rely on camping and tunneling to win then play your “Nurse” but sorry, you’re not gonna get much value of camping with PH after this patch (:
This isn't about tunneling. The nerf is lack of info, since you don't know where the cage is, when he's saved, you don't know where the saving player was.
The counter is DS. That's what it's designed for and it's extremely powerful. People act like they have no tools against being tunneled when they have the most powerful perk in the game, on both sides, by far.
This only affected those who run back to the cages. If I want an easy kill i would just run bubba with insidious to prevent borrow time.
Just continue to make "inteligent plays" by going to the opposite side of the map. The cage always spawns on the opposite side. Not sure if it will spawn on the back left or the back right? Don't walk straight down the middle. Walk toward the back left and patrol the edge of the map heading right, or vice versa.
Oh... Your "intelligent plays" were just BBQ holding your hand and giving you momentum, but caging doesn't proc BBQ nor show you the white cage aura anymore, so now you have to think for yourself... Poor thing.
Eh I liked knowing where the cage spawned so Id know the location of 2 survivors for future knowledge, but its not a big deal. I rarely use the cages anyway unless i feel DS is in play or i can start a chase with another survivor immediately.
Ah yes, let me remember exactly where I downed the first person while I go chase and down two other people, then go to the opposite side of the map from that point, not the second nor third person I hooked. Clearly the burden should be on me to remember precisely where this happened so I can get a vague idea of where I'm going next.
Also I find it interesting you brought up BBQ when that has nothing to do with what we're discussing. I don't run it on PHead as I find it counterintuitive at best on him, and I don't run it on my favorite Wraith build either who is my most played killer right now. So if you want to have an actual discussion, constructing a strawman with a perk that has no current bearing on the conversation is not the way to actually counterpoint.
Well like I said, not a big deal since I annihilate people with Nurse lol. It's going to be survivors who pay the price, not me.
Yet the loss of info has big implications at high level..you gave nothing to compensate for that somewhere else in his kit just for the sake of feels , that's what's not cool about this
DS doesnt proc when getting pulled from a cage. so no, you dont have any counter to pyramid head if he wants to tunnel you from a cage
btw, that post was solely about pyramid head and his cages
You guys can do this, but can't change DS to deactivate once another survivor is hooked lol.
Imagine if ANY killer could instead of hooking. Simply press a button and that person go to ANY hook on the map the catch is the killer can't see it AND can't use BBQ. Why in the WORLD would any killer want that? With the lack of aura information this is exactly what the nerf does to PH. He now has a completely obsolete part of his power.
Some peoeple are willing to play stupid. Him seeing the aura is OBVIOUSLY supposed to be what makes the power useful. Its now gone....
Ironically the only thing cages are useful for? Evading D striek while facecamping during an end game scenario FFS you guys.....
As someone who has played a lot of PH he's not trash now. He's only trash for trash players now.