It doesn't save any time whatsoever against competent survivors for one simple reason. They keep avoiding the barbwire (by breaking line or sight whilst looping and then running to the next near-by tile) so getting them "infected" wastes more time than it's worth. You have to corner good survivors at a bad loop until you can try and force them to step in the barbwire. Now do that 3 times against all survivors that actively try to avoid the barbwire in every chase and see how much time you actually saved by sending them to cages.
Personally I'm kind of shocked that his ranged attack still won't apply tormented considering the fact it's more difficult to hit than -let's say- a hatchet. If something is difficult and to some extent luck based it should be rewarded.
Huntress (who will always hit more ranged attacks per match than Pyramid Head when played by two competent killers) gets a dramatically decreased cooldown for hatchet throws allowing her to go for the famous hatchet/axe double hit ending chases almost like an instadown killer.
Pyramid Head gets no benefit from actually hitting his ranged attack. No decreased cooldown and no tormented status.
Long story short: Pyramid Head's tunnel/camp potential was dramatically reduced so it would be fair to increase his potential to even use the cages in exchange allowing him to consistently save time actually rewarding him for using the ranged attack (AS AN ATTACK RATHER THAN A BORING ZONING TOOL FOR EASY M1 ATTACKS). Just my opinion.
And you say what survivor mains usually say. "Tunneling/camping is bad" "just patrol gens"... Ok thanks but that's not how you play against decent survivors.
Yea i main nancy when i play survivor what does that have to do with anything?
Tunneling and camping is fine in certain situations but getting into a game with the intenet to tunnel/camp is bad IMO
You do realise that patrolling gens is the only way to find survivors other then going back to the hook? unless you're using a tracking perk like bbq or thrilling
I litrally showed you proof im a red rank killer
If you think tunneling is the only way to win then you are not a good killer
Except the definition of "tunneling" is so broad around here that it basically encompasses "chasing anyone that you chased in the past".
I'm sorry, but if I hook someone and some Claudette is in a bush the whole time and unhooks them before I'm even out of sight, I'm punishing the team for that. It's absurd to think that a killer wouldn't. Unless survivors will agree to all get off of gens and look for totems or something when I fail at a chase.
No. I'm glad he got nerfed. Very easy to camp a cage and when the person gets rescued mori them. A 4 year old could win the game like that and it isn't fair. Get some real skill and get good
Bovinity just said it all. Tunneling means nothing. I've seen survivors call le a tunneler even if I was hooking everyone multiple times. Good survivors won't let you just hook everyone 3 times. Good luck to manage 4 good runners during all the game. That's why countering ds and bt is very good.
That was a bit excessive, but still, they could ar least give us a bubble notification that shows where the survivor was uncaged. For the cage relocating, it's fine imo
So let me get this straight. You down a guy and don’t have to carry him to a hook but it should still behaves as a hook where you’re given an aura? Definitely not. You didn’t give the survivors a chance to rescue with a flashlight. You’re essentially allowed to skip a key part of what makes the game fun and dynamic.
Yeah, and they also don't have to do any sort of setup like PH does. I think it's a fair tradeoff for the perks to still work on Bubba, for example, because he gets a down and all he has to do is sit in front of the hook with his saw revved and nobody is getting past him without trading.
At least with PH, even if he's attacking you, it's still within the survivors' control whether or not they get tormented. PH can't torment somebody by hitting them directly with his M2 range ability. Maybe they should do that as a compensation buff, so he can actually cage people more often even if he doesn't get to go camp them. Point is, other killers don't have to do the setup just to be a scumbag.
Also, with your example of Freddy (and other killers for that matter) BT still won't work. You can't be in Freddy's terror radius when he doesn't have one, and has to do literallynothing to make that happen. He just has to wait.
MoM was considered OP bought alongside a premium Survivor which was then nerfed into the ground, now remains completely useless and unused after countless fans bought the product.
CoA was considered OP bought alongside a premium Killer which was then nerfed into the ground, now remains completely useless and unused after countless fans bought the product.
The devs Don't condone tunneling or cramping even though they've said they are strats. They always punish when a killer tunnels for the majority or plays in a scummy way (like why they changed Legion. Many were tunneling with him).
Literally every single PH I've ever went against used to use cages solely to tunnel. The moment someone was uncaged, they knew where it was, went to it and immediately tunneled the person knowing they don't have DS. And if they recently used an exhaustion perk, their exhaustion would still be on CD since it isn't a hook, ensuring the kill. Every cage I saw was always in a dead zone too or a T and L where they're still screwed.
This killer is beyond anti-fun. People thought Deathslinger or Legion was bad, now all I hear from any streamers is complaints about PH the moment they find out he's the killer. It's a problem and they're trying to solve it a little.
Nobody said pyramid head is bad. Punishment of damn is solid zoning tool and it is very good at loops. Pyramid cages are bad now because their purpose was to farm survivor hook states IF survivor instant unhooks just after pyramid cages them and since survivors literally know where cage spawns, they instant unhook people. Pressuring generators is survivor main made up concept. The best generator pressure is eliminating a survivor out of the game as quickly as possible and these cage were designed to do that. Its part of the reason why OP is rank 1 killer and your rank 5. I know people say that rank doesn't mean anything but it is obvious that a player who can get to rank 1 and keep at rank 1 is better than someone who can't get to rank 1 regardless for how easy/hard people say ranking system is for both sides. The cages teleport from someone facecamping is fine as that behavior is seen as very toxic but the fact that survivor can see cages and killer can't from their own power is really stupid. Also before anyone asks, "Just don't use cages and use Mori", Mori punishes the killer in the 3rd emblem because mori someone isn't hooking them which is what 3rd emblem tracks so you basically never want Mori and offering itself needs re-balancing anyway.
You are right if in cases where developers are coming up with something new. The basic game mechanics and strategies are all known at this point. Predicting how a killer will be used should be easy for them
Yeah you'd think that, but in games like League of Legends where the stakes are(apparently) a lot higher, where it's an actual cooperative competitive team vs team and the balance between over a hundred different champions truly matters, it's still just a mess to handle any sort of playtesting.
I mean some of the original characters introduced into the game never had updates or fixes to their kits until six or seven years later. It's not such a simple task to take someone's idea off a forum, which could inevitably become a huge lawsuit if you or anyone ends up suing them for your idea. After all, you were the one to come up with the idea and they didn't even consult you or pay you for your time. Even if the lawsuit wasn't in the way, it's one thing to talk about and develop a system in which a character could work, it's another to test it among a small number of yourselves and get a feeling for it, and it's a completely different dimension to release it to the public.
The minds of your players will always outsmart you, and it's honestly in your best interest to fix problems as you see them, rather than predict everything your players might do to break something you've made. Maybe the team should be upfront about that, but I think that would just lead to more misleading reports, people assuming they have a say in how a killer will end up. I mean that's sort of how this forum(and reddit, oh my god reddit is the worst at this but that's a whole other bag I don't wish to stick my hands into) behaves when it comes to problems with the game. People don't come here to have a discussion, they often come here to complain about a perk that needs to change right now oh my god. And if you don't think exactly like they do then sucks for you because they have a million rank 1 hours into this game which gives them authority to tell the devs how the game should be run(they don't have the authority).
Anyways, I've rambled enough. This quarantine has me coming back to this forum far more than I care to admit, and each time I'm both amazed and disappointed how easily people think that spamming new threads about something they don't like will actually get something done. It won't, and if they really think their complaints had anything to do with any changes made to killers or survivors, they should seriously consider a lawsuit for the time and effort they put into fixing the game, if they believe in fair compensation. Maybe wasting a couple thousand on a lawyer to find out they have no case will shed some reality on the situation.
Dude what are you complaining about? 3k, 26,000 points, two of them were executions, all three kills were under 15k. You wrecked shop and I imagine the last one got away either because of gate placement or they found the hatch before you.
That's just it though, this isn't some huge competitive game like league of legends where tournaments are held with money on the line. The devs top priorities should be on bugs and then character development. They are the ones who decide to release a chapter every couple of months instead of sitting and thinking through it all. Part of being a developer is solving problems that might come up, not patchwork fixing them as you go. I understand this community is fickle but that's no excuse.
Btw it’s not the best way to send every survivor to a cage. I think it’s better to hook survivor first and use the cages to avoid ds, pallet- or flashlightsaves, to go fast for the next chase or use it in the egc near the open exit.
Im not hardcore with Pyramid head but I thought the cages were mostly a quick fix for dodging the DS, flashlight saves or pallet drops. Still plenty of benefits to me, but again I didn’t use him too much.
Putting someone in a cage is still a hook state no matter how fast they get unhooked, and is faster (and safer) than hooking them though.
If someone is tormented, in any situation where you would slug them you can also quickly cage them with a pretty small time loss, especially compared to hooking them. It can basically let you make someone that would otherwise only lose bleedout progress lose a hook state if they're tormented.
Contested an unhook and the tormented unhooked survivor got downed? You can quickly circumvent any possible DS and go after the unhooker, maybe even before their scratch marks disappear. Worried about a flashlight save or a tormented survivor is on a pallet? You can cage them right there if they're tormented, with no risk. It's a situational time saver, just like the crouching + ambush ability of Pig is a situational stealth and chase tool.
You really shouldn't crouch all over the map, but you can use it to get a good start to a chase or to get hits on certain tiles, while on other tiles the ambush won't help you. And on top of that she has her RBTs, just like PH also has his ranged attack, trail and mini-mori in addition to his cages.
I'm not saying the solution they went with is perfect, but saying cages are "useless" now sounds quite extreme to me.
Been playing a while since the change. PH is still not 'trash'. Any time where it was in my best interest to cage a survivor, I did so with no regrets. I'm not certain how the tunnelers still feel about all of this, because I didn't play him like that to begin with, but the niche scenarios where the cage was needed it worked exactly as wanted and not knowing where the caged guy went did nothing to slow me down because ultimately, in those scenarios, it didn't matter. Particularly with bm'ers at the exit gate who thought they were all getting out. Still <3 this guy and I'd still put him just under spirit, nurse, and hag (if they know how to play her correctly)
To be honest the cage was always useless outside of tunneling. Idk why anyone is frustrated with this change, it was very obviously going to happen. The only time this is useful in my opinion is if the person is on death hook, you can secure the kill without worrying about flashlights and stuff, but other than that it's pointless and always has been.
Mhm, and if they do that, guess how long it'll take before people like OP come crying about that?
I'm glad they made this change. People who exploit a power to tunnel don't deserve kills. Learn to play your killer.
Also, anyone saying "no information", that simply isn't true. You get the information when the survivor gets pulled from the cage. So yeah, if it happens instantly, you'll know the survivors were there, and if a gen is nearby... well, take a guess what they were doing there, eh?
You still have your information. Just in a different way that doesn't allow bad killers like OP to abuse it and tunnel the living F out of survivors because they don't know how to get a kill otherwise. And on top of this you avoid literally every option survivors have to prevent a hook (flashlight, DS, yadi yada).
0 reason to complain over this change other than wanting easy kills through easy tunneling. Which, if that's your reason... too bad, pal.
#########, I don't need that cage rework to tunnel. And playing like a scumbag is pretty much how I'm rank 1, cause most of the time for me if I don't I usually get rekted by sweaty rank 1 SWF. And it usually is now I beat them. If anything it encourages me.
I don't need that rework to tunnel, I have plenty of other options to do that. And if consoles have end game chat, you bet your ass I'll do that. The salt must flow.
Called this so long ago. I said he was OP and people denied it.
Another OP release, nerfed after the majority of sales were made.
Mettle of man 2.0
It doesn't save any time whatsoever against competent survivors for one simple reason. They keep avoiding the barbwire (by breaking line or sight whilst looping and then running to the next near-by tile) so getting them "infected" wastes more time than it's worth. You have to corner good survivors at a bad loop until you can try and force them to step in the barbwire. Now do that 3 times against all survivors that actively try to avoid the barbwire in every chase and see how much time you actually saved by sending them to cages.
Personally I'm kind of shocked that his ranged attack still won't apply tormented considering the fact it's more difficult to hit than -let's say- a hatchet. If something is difficult and to some extent luck based it should be rewarded.
Huntress (who will always hit more ranged attacks per match than Pyramid Head when played by two competent killers) gets a dramatically decreased cooldown for hatchet throws allowing her to go for the famous hatchet/axe double hit ending chases almost like an instadown killer.
Pyramid Head gets no benefit from actually hitting his ranged attack. No decreased cooldown and no tormented status.
Long story short: Pyramid Head's tunnel/camp potential was dramatically reduced so it would be fair to increase his potential to even use the cages in exchange allowing him to consistently save time actually rewarding him for using the ranged attack (AS AN ATTACK RATHER THAN A BORING ZONING TOOL FOR EASY M1 ATTACKS). Just my opinion.
+1 for Billy.
"Respectfulnancymain"
And you say what survivor mains usually say. "Tunneling/camping is bad" "just patrol gens"... Ok thanks but that's not how you play against decent survivors.
Oh come on only the cage changing position is needed. Removing aura is completely overkill
What? they removed cage aura completely? crap I gotta check this out.
Yea i main nancy when i play survivor what does that have to do with anything?
Tunneling and camping is fine in certain situations but getting into a game with the intenet to tunnel/camp is bad IMO
You do realise that patrolling gens is the only way to find survivors other then going back to the hook? unless you're using a tracking perk like bbq or thrilling
I litrally showed you proof im a red rank killer
If you think tunneling is the only way to win then you are not a good killer
Except the definition of "tunneling" is so broad around here that it basically encompasses "chasing anyone that you chased in the past".
I'm sorry, but if I hook someone and some Claudette is in a bush the whole time and unhooks them before I'm even out of sight, I'm punishing the team for that. It's absurd to think that a killer wouldn't. Unless survivors will agree to all get off of gens and look for totems or something when I fail at a chase.
Thats why i said "in certain situations" if the survivors hook bomb then punish them for it
But if you go into a game with the intent to ruin others experience by compeltly camping and tunnling them then i think its bad
No. I'm glad he got nerfed. Very easy to camp a cage and when the person gets rescued mori them. A 4 year old could win the game like that and it isn't fair. Get some real skill and get good
Wow, imagine a game where you have 4 survivors vs 1 killer and you expect everyone to get along?
Mind blown.
2k post and still regurgitating words you learn on the internet
Mind blown
Bovinity just said it all. Tunneling means nothing. I've seen survivors call le a tunneler even if I was hooking everyone multiple times. Good survivors won't let you just hook everyone 3 times. Good luck to manage 4 good runners during all the game. That's why countering ds and bt is very good.
You're an idiot
Thanks, friend.
Well then, we mostly agree.
Most people on this forum seem to have an entirely different opinion, though.
When did i ######### say to hook everyone 3 times?
Tunneling is needed at certain times, yes, but its not the only way to win
Are you seriously insulting someone for having a diffrent opinion?
🤡
When did I say tunneling is the only way to win?
Havent you been saying that pyramid head is horrible now BECAUSE he cant tunnel?
That was a bit excessive, but still, they could ar least give us a bubble notification that shows where the survivor was uncaged. For the cage relocating, it's fine imo
So let me get this straight. You down a guy and don’t have to carry him to a hook but it should still behaves as a hook where you’re given an aura? Definitely not. You didn’t give the survivors a chance to rescue with a flashlight. You’re essentially allowed to skip a key part of what makes the game fun and dynamic.
Yeah, and they also don't have to do any sort of setup like PH does. I think it's a fair tradeoff for the perks to still work on Bubba, for example, because he gets a down and all he has to do is sit in front of the hook with his saw revved and nobody is getting past him without trading.
At least with PH, even if he's attacking you, it's still within the survivors' control whether or not they get tormented. PH can't torment somebody by hitting them directly with his M2 range ability. Maybe they should do that as a compensation buff, so he can actually cage people more often even if he doesn't get to go camp them. Point is, other killers don't have to do the setup just to be a scumbag.
Also, with your example of Freddy (and other killers for that matter) BT still won't work. You can't be in Freddy's terror radius when he doesn't have one, and has to do literally nothing to make that happen. He just has to wait.
Wow. I mean just. wow.
It's MoM all over again. Just gave PH a go and cage is pretty much useless lmao.
Although I did ok even against this massively borked match making which when is that getting fixed again?
LOL, comparing PH with MoM is like a little too much.
MoM was considered OP bought alongside a premium Survivor which was then nerfed into the ground, now remains completely useless and unused after countless fans bought the product.
CoA was considered OP bought alongside a premium Killer which was then nerfed into the ground, now remains completely useless and unused after countless fans bought the product.
I can barely tell the difference.
You could just not try to tunnel. There's a thing called gen patrolling.
you clearly dont play survivor with that attitude lol
The devs Don't condone tunneling or cramping even though they've said they are strats. They always punish when a killer tunnels for the majority or plays in a scummy way (like why they changed Legion. Many were tunneling with him).
Literally every single PH I've ever went against used to use cages solely to tunnel. The moment someone was uncaged, they knew where it was, went to it and immediately tunneled the person knowing they don't have DS. And if they recently used an exhaustion perk, their exhaustion would still be on CD since it isn't a hook, ensuring the kill. Every cage I saw was always in a dead zone too or a T and L where they're still screwed.
This killer is beyond anti-fun. People thought Deathslinger or Legion was bad, now all I hear from any streamers is complaints about PH the moment they find out he's the killer. It's a problem and they're trying to solve it a little.
Nobody said pyramid head is bad. Punishment of damn is solid zoning tool and it is very good at loops. Pyramid cages are bad now because their purpose was to farm survivor hook states IF survivor instant unhooks just after pyramid cages them and since survivors literally know where cage spawns, they instant unhook people. Pressuring generators is survivor main made up concept. The best generator pressure is eliminating a survivor out of the game as quickly as possible and these cage were designed to do that. Its part of the reason why OP is rank 1 killer and your rank 5. I know people say that rank doesn't mean anything but it is obvious that a player who can get to rank 1 and keep at rank 1 is better than someone who can't get to rank 1 regardless for how easy/hard people say ranking system is for both sides. The cages teleport from someone facecamping is fine as that behavior is seen as very toxic but the fact that survivor can see cages and killer can't from their own power is really stupid. Also before anyone asks, "Just don't use cages and use Mori", Mori punishes the killer in the 3rd emblem because mori someone isn't hooking them which is what 3rd emblem tracks so you basically never want Mori and offering itself needs re-balancing anyway.
You are right if in cases where developers are coming up with something new. The basic game mechanics and strategies are all known at this point. Predicting how a killer will be used should be easy for them
Yeah you'd think that, but in games like League of Legends where the stakes are(apparently) a lot higher, where it's an actual cooperative competitive team vs team and the balance between over a hundred different champions truly matters, it's still just a mess to handle any sort of playtesting.
I mean some of the original characters introduced into the game never had updates or fixes to their kits until six or seven years later. It's not such a simple task to take someone's idea off a forum, which could inevitably become a huge lawsuit if you or anyone ends up suing them for your idea. After all, you were the one to come up with the idea and they didn't even consult you or pay you for your time. Even if the lawsuit wasn't in the way, it's one thing to talk about and develop a system in which a character could work, it's another to test it among a small number of yourselves and get a feeling for it, and it's a completely different dimension to release it to the public.
The minds of your players will always outsmart you, and it's honestly in your best interest to fix problems as you see them, rather than predict everything your players might do to break something you've made. Maybe the team should be upfront about that, but I think that would just lead to more misleading reports, people assuming they have a say in how a killer will end up. I mean that's sort of how this forum(and reddit, oh my god reddit is the worst at this but that's a whole other bag I don't wish to stick my hands into) behaves when it comes to problems with the game. People don't come here to have a discussion, they often come here to complain about a perk that needs to change right now oh my god. And if you don't think exactly like they do then sucks for you because they have a million rank 1 hours into this game which gives them authority to tell the devs how the game should be run(they don't have the authority).
Anyways, I've rambled enough. This quarantine has me coming back to this forum far more than I care to admit, and each time I'm both amazed and disappointed how easily people think that spamming new threads about something they don't like will actually get something done. It won't, and if they really think their complaints had anything to do with any changes made to killers or survivors, they should seriously consider a lawsuit for the time and effort they put into fixing the game, if they believe in fair compensation. Maybe wasting a couple thousand on a lawyer to find out they have no case will shed some reality on the situation.
Dude what are you complaining about? 3k, 26,000 points, two of them were executions, all three kills were under 15k. You wrecked shop and I imagine the last one got away either because of gate placement or they found the hatch before you.
That's just it though, this isn't some huge competitive game like league of legends where tournaments are held with money on the line. The devs top priorities should be on bugs and then character development. They are the ones who decide to release a chapter every couple of months instead of sitting and thinking through it all. Part of being a developer is solving problems that might come up, not patchwork fixing them as you go. I understand this community is fickle but that's no excuse.
I think ive found it, the treasure trove containing heaps of the survivor hive-mindset
I like the change of the cages.
Btw it’s not the best way to send every survivor to a cage. I think it’s better to hook survivor first and use the cages to avoid ds, pallet- or flashlightsaves, to go fast for the next chase or use it in the egc near the open exit.
So because we have a diffrent opinion then you that means we have a hive-mindeset?
No its because I see so many survivors respond the same way to killer complaints
dont tunnel, killer mains are just mad they cant tunnel etc
Im not hardcore with Pyramid head but I thought the cages were mostly a quick fix for dodging the DS, flashlight saves or pallet drops. Still plenty of benefits to me, but again I didn’t use him too much.
did the same to Legion, he was designed to be able to tunnel that one person down with 3 hits.....
Putting someone in a cage is still a hook state no matter how fast they get unhooked, and is faster (and safer) than hooking them though.
If someone is tormented, in any situation where you would slug them you can also quickly cage them with a pretty small time loss, especially compared to hooking them. It can basically let you make someone that would otherwise only lose bleedout progress lose a hook state if they're tormented.
Contested an unhook and the tormented unhooked survivor got downed? You can quickly circumvent any possible DS and go after the unhooker, maybe even before their scratch marks disappear. Worried about a flashlight save or a tormented survivor is on a pallet? You can cage them right there if they're tormented, with no risk. It's a situational time saver, just like the crouching + ambush ability of Pig is a situational stealth and chase tool.
You really shouldn't crouch all over the map, but you can use it to get a good start to a chase or to get hits on certain tiles, while on other tiles the ambush won't help you. And on top of that she has her RBTs, just like PH also has his ranged attack, trail and mini-mori in addition to his cages.
I'm not saying the solution they went with is perfect, but saying cages are "useless" now sounds quite extreme to me.
They had to rush uncages without thought before anyway to beat your tunneling.
Yes :)
Been playing a while since the change. PH is still not 'trash'. Any time where it was in my best interest to cage a survivor, I did so with no regrets. I'm not certain how the tunnelers still feel about all of this, because I didn't play him like that to begin with, but the niche scenarios where the cage was needed it worked exactly as wanted and not knowing where the caged guy went did nothing to slow me down because ultimately, in those scenarios, it didn't matter. Particularly with bm'ers at the exit gate who thought they were all getting out. Still <3 this guy and I'd still put him just under spirit, nurse, and hag (if they know how to play her correctly)
actually you get a notification of where they got saved like a hook. so you do know where they are after the save.
Sorry you lot that think their useless because you guys are probably the ones that tunneled them out of cages or camped them.
People can find flashlights in chests.
To be honest the cage was always useless outside of tunneling. Idk why anyone is frustrated with this change, it was very obviously going to happen. The only time this is useful in my opinion is if the person is on death hook, you can secure the kill without worrying about flashlights and stuff, but other than that it's pointless and always has been.
Mhm, and if they do that, guess how long it'll take before people like OP come crying about that?
I'm glad they made this change. People who exploit a power to tunnel don't deserve kills. Learn to play your killer.
Also, anyone saying "no information", that simply isn't true. You get the information when the survivor gets pulled from the cage. So yeah, if it happens instantly, you'll know the survivors were there, and if a gen is nearby... well, take a guess what they were doing there, eh?
You still have your information. Just in a different way that doesn't allow bad killers like OP to abuse it and tunnel the living F out of survivors because they don't know how to get a kill otherwise. And on top of this you avoid literally every option survivors have to prevent a hook (flashlight, DS, yadi yada).
0 reason to complain over this change other than wanting easy kills through easy tunneling. Which, if that's your reason... too bad, pal.
#########, I don't need that cage rework to tunnel. And playing like a scumbag is pretty much how I'm rank 1, cause most of the time for me if I don't I usually get rekted by sweaty rank 1 SWF. And it usually is now I beat them. If anything it encourages me.
I don't need that rework to tunnel, I have plenty of other options to do that. And if consoles have end game chat, you bet your ass I'll do that. The salt must flow.