Why is gen-rushing still possible?
A lot of scummy tactics have existed in this game for as long as it goes back.
Tunneling was acknowledged and a surge of anti-tunnel perks were created and some have already been here since the beginning.
Decisive Strike, Borrowed Time, Breakdown (regardless of it being an awful perk), Adrenaline and Iron will also function as anti-tunneling perks in desperate need, but we can leave iron will out due to it being probably the most useful overall perk in the game since it helps with many aspects.
Slugging also has it's counters, and a perk even introduced in the last patch.
Unbreakable, Soul Guard, Tenacity, and yes, flip-flop.....
The only effective Anti Gen-Rushing perks we have as of now with no retarded requirements are Pop Goes the weasel and Corrupt Intervention, Corrupt intervention is simple to understand, less gens early game = get a hook with 1 or no gens completed.
Pop, You're rewarded for hooking a person a 25% slowdown to ONE gen. It's actually great since 25% is 20 seconds which is a lot, it's to one gen only, sure. But the more hooks the more you get it. Simple and straight to the point.
Old ruin was passive and had great effect, instead of 3 gens being completed in 80 seconds of the game it would take 100 or 105 seconds, enough to push you off a couple of them or at least 1. Best case scenario survivors actively look for it early-game instead of doing gens.
Here are perks that some survivors might overestimate and mention as anti-genrushing below, but they really aren't...
Thrilling tremors: Blocks what's NOT being worked on, and if you play killer you know this is a tracking perk not a gen slowdown.
New Ruin: Punishes gens NOT being worked on, again if they work it they'll finish it.
"Thanatophobia": Probably the MOST overrated killer perk, assuming you're continiously injuring with it you'll be at 3/4 injured survivors, which is 12% slowdown. 12% slowdown to gen speed is Horrible, adding only 9 seconds, what can you do with 9 seconds? Hook a survivor?
Dying Light: Another overrated perk, and honestly dumb in design. Let's say you get to 7 stacks by deliberately ignoring the obsession, 21% slowdown.
But wait, this 21% slowdown does NOT apply to obsession, so you may think, ok let's just get rid of the obsession!!
Getting rid of the obsession de-activates the perk....
Ok screw it, let him be, I'll just find someone else. But by this dying light only applies to 2 PEOPLE, because you're chasing one of the 3 people it applies for. And the perks already gains its stacks by hooks if you're at 7 stacks by ignoring the obsession you MUST have killed someone by now. So it only applies to 1 person.
12-24% slowdown for 1 or 2 people, is it really worth it?
Surge: Only affects gens in 32m, but let's say you're in 32m, thats 6 extra seconds..... WOW
Dead man's switch: No possiblity for synergy with other perks since blocking gens causes ZERO regression, even if you have new ruin or if you damaged it, survivors must touch and let go after you hook so this only works if you have lots of mobility (Billy or nurse) OR you can intentionally make people let go (doctor or freddy). But these aren't the only 4 killers in the game are they?
Survivors will just get back to the gen after you finish downing the survivor near the gen and finish it while you pick him or her up, in the exact same time he would have if he didn't let go.
NOED: NOED doesn't really counter gen-rushing. But it punishes it. No killer should be forced to run this perk in fear of getting gen-rush matches, and I say this should be a base-kit perk because totems directly become an essential secondary objective
Point is, we need to make changes to counter gen rushing. Implementing more perks for the killers that focus mainly on gen speeds is not what I suggest since killers shouldn't have to rely on a perk (like old ruin), while you're on a cooldown bar spree go for gens too, 40 seconds cooldown between working on 1 gen to the other, you can heal in it, do totems, but just not gens.
My point is that if you get queued against half decent survivors, okay at looping, don't waste time, and know what their main objective is, you're in the shlt.
Comments
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Answering the title, Survivors must be able to do gens very quickly in order to counter Killers following such tactics like hard camping and hard tunneling.
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Gen rushing isn't a scummy tactic, it's just survivors doing their objective.
It's like saying kill rushing (aka killer doing his objective) is scummy and toxic, no it isn't.
The best anti rushing counter you have right now it's common sense and 1 brain cell.
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Ahh, the classic "CAMPING AND TUNNELING, REEEEEEEEEEE".
Just admit to it, you can still easily get gen-rushed if you spread the damage. Numerous videos of streamers getting 2 hooks on 4 survivors have only lead them to their demise. 1 kill and "Brutal Killer" in the match lobby.
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So only cause a streamer didn't get the 5 gen 4k the game is straight up unbalanced? Nice logic there bud.
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Gen rushing means the survivors are playing the game and doing the objective, start doing yours.
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The only problem with this is that generatorrushing takes no skill whatsoever from the survivor. A chimpanzee could do it as effectively as humans.
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^
If my objective is to kill all 4 survivors I'll do it the easy way and tunnel 1 person out of the game, but then you'll just whine wouldn't you?
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But tunneling takes skill?
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Gen rushing is imbalanced, but a killer killing an entire team in two minutes is "the survivors were just really bad"
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If red rank Killers get Brutal Killer against amazing groups of Survivors, does not this mean that the Killers prove themselves normally, as they should in their ranks?
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Genrushing is not a thing. I'm sorry but you really need to learn how to spread pressure on a team and that's how you stop "genrushing".
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Whine? For a killer doing their job? That's how you should play the game, screw playing fair.
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It's really not possible to down all 4 survivors within the first 2 minutes of a game unless they all intentionally stick around.
Genrushing is absolutely a thing. If a team of survivors commit to working on gens separately, the killer will struggle to apply pressure to stop gens from popping.
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I feel like you've turned a blind eye to the plethora of perks that slowdown generators either directly, or by forcing the survivors to do other actions other than generators slower.
Corrupt Intervention, Dying Light, Huntress Lullaby, Ruin, PGTW, Surge, and Thanataphobia all directly slow down generators or regress them.
Then you've got perks like Discordance and Surveillance which help you keep track of the generators so you know where to go to keep the survivors off of them.
And finally, you've got perks like Sloppy Butcher, which makes other actions (in this case, healing) take longer. Times spent doing other things is time spent not doing a generator.
This doesn't even go into lesser used or more niche perks which could give you some extra regression/info/slowdown.
I know you wrote off perks like Ruin and Thrilling Tremors because they don't work automatically, but that's because getting them off the generators is your job. You, as the killer, need to get them off them so they can take effect. In Thrilling Tremors' case, that info helps you figure out where people are so you can go chase them off. Thanataphobia as well stacks with other slowdown effects and can was a lot of time (a heal becomes ~24 seconds when combined with Sloppy Butcher, double that for Self Care).
Perks aren't the only way to slow things down. They can help you, but they're not meant to stop all progress for you. The best way to slow things down always has been to play smart and keep people off of generators.
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Yeah it's all starting to make sense now. Even space coconut (no.1 hag main) said tunnel if you please if you know it'll win you the game. You're right pal
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The killer is forced to play fair. They have no choice. Tunnel? DS. Camp? Borrowed Time. Slug? Unbreakable is rare yes, but its exists.
Survivors on the other hand have no punishment for playing "unfair" (genrushing), other than Hex:NOED, but that should get the killer 1 kill maximum by camping the hook versus any hanf decent team.
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Every direction gen slowdown is mentioned in the spoiler.
And I'm sorry but Huntress Lullaby isn't even one considering it relies on the survivor's skill and has absolutely nothing to do with you. If you're in the red ranks this only works with doctor.
As for the gen tracking perks, I understand how useful they are since they guide your map pressure, but if you're in a chase while these info perks keep popping on and off you're losing lots of hook pressure by abandoning at and moving over to the gen. And again, most of the time that gen will be complete by the time you reach there
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Perks and SWF
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This begs the question: Why is the killer expected to work for their perks, but survivor are not? Decisive Strike (the skillcheck is laughable easy if your framerate exceeds 30), Borrowed Time, Unbreakable all work automatically. Basically for survivor the strongest perks require the least effort and input from the player.
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It strays from the topic but honestly I couldn't agree more, well said.
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He addressed almost all of them except Huntress Lullaby, which is possibly the worst "Gen Slowdown" perk because experieced survivors are 0% affected by it. They might miss the FIRST silent skillcheck, and that's it. It's only even slightly useful on Doc.
Also, Survivors don't have to work for Prove Thyself, Decisive, Unbreakable or really any meta-perks.
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Actually it's the opposite. Most killers try to play fair, but they get gen rushed and looped so f'n hard they have to resort to tunneling and camping just to get 1 measly kill. The prob is survs think all 4 of them should escape the match together everytime, when in reality, it should be impossible for that to happen, yet it does constantly. The balance is #########, plain and simple
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Your list had neither corrupt intervention nor PGTW
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I'd really like to see some proof of that, because I highly doubt a killer is taking everyone out in 2 minutes... Cmon maaan... 😆
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Yes, cause they were mentioned right above it........
The only effective Anti Gen-Rushing perks we have as of now with no retarded requirements are Pop Goes the weasel and Corrupt Intervention, Corrupt intervention is simple to understand, less gens early game = get a hook with 1 or no gens completed.
Pop, You're rewarded for hooking a person a 25% slowdown to ONE gen. It's actually great since 25% is 20 seconds which is a lot, it's to one gen only, sure. But the more hooks the more you get it. Simple and straight to the point.
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short and sweet
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Wanted a focused answer ;) lol
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Also while thrilling tremors may not be a slowdown perk by itself. I have slotted it in a few builds where it ends up working for slowdown.
Killers like Legion and Doctor in particular can get a lot of value out of thrilling tremors from a slowdown PoV.
This is better you can get them mending or snapping out of it, and then pick someone up in the mean time. This locks them off the gen they would otherwise want to go back to once their channel is done. Worst case scenario, you get info.
I also have a Ghostface build that pairs thrilling with forced Penance. While they are broken they can't heal. But as Ghostface I can down injured Survivors incredibly fast. So if they hop on a gen I get a free down using the info from thrilling. And if they don't then they can't really do anything for the 16 seconds.
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What kind of games are you playing that have a 4k in 2-3 minutes? Do you go afk and wait to die? Do you down and hook yourself? WHEN does this happen?
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Unfortunately several of the slow down perks are just badly designed and therefore not worth running. Surge is great on small maps, but useless on big maps - so it works well when you don’t need it and is bad on maps where it would actually help, lol. Dying Light only really works well in games where you get a lot of hooks quickly, but in that situation why would you need it at all? You’re winning. Not to mention that it actually buffs the Obsession, because that’s what you want from a slow down perk of course.
Ruin, Corrupt and Pop are all good. There’s a reason they’re some of the most commonly run perks, more than a “niche” (lol) perk like Lullaby or Gearhead, because they actually have a noticeable effect. Don’t you guys ever wonder why there are so many perks that just never get run by anyone?
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Again, I wanna see proof of these 2-3 min matches... I've seen plenty of 5-7m matches though where the gens were hammered out and they escaped. And this happens at red rank. Yet, I've failed to see these 2-3 min videos where the killer wins that fast except fake videos that a group of friends made claiming to be "real".
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It goes both sides bud, what kind of games killers have that gens get done in less than 3 minutes? 😂
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X: Doubt Experienced nurses, billys with the infectious fright builds.
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It happens when a killer downs a survivor and all 3 survivors swarm like flies because they want to get a flashlight or pallet save. Then they all stick around to pick each up in front of the killer instead of moving away to do gens.
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I would dare say that Corrupt and sloppy are delay perks not slowdown perks
Corrupt: affects the 3 farthest gens for 2 minutes then goes away... delaying the first gen by at least 10-15 seconds (travel time)... Maybe more if the survivors can't find a gen to work on fast enough
Sloppy: Does slowdown healing... but that's not the objective of the game, it's a side effect
I wont go into the rest but there's those two
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Yes, cause I play them. New nurse ain't doin #########, and Billy is easily looped if you know tiles and the map. I've never had a match under 10mins as Billy...
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feel free to show a single case of that not being the case
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Discordance will help with gen rushing and what's better it will help with the 4K too if you're into that. Discordance is the best perk in the game in my opinion since gen rushing is the bread to the butter that is rescues.
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Not to be rude but it feels like youre turning a blind eye to the fact that every objective in the game is optional except the gens. Even healing is optional. With how things are now, a survivor can run from one pallet to the next dropping them, no mind games required and if the other 3 survivors are split up on gens and working them theres little to nothing the killer can do to stop this. Break chase and they just switch out and continue. By the time you do get a down 3 gens are very close to popping, even if you get the first down fast youre still screwed.
The game needs secondary non optional objectives. It just does. Plus that would liven up the gameplay for the survivors as they would need to do something other than hold m1. There needs to be something else between the survivors and the exit gates other than the gens and 1 person. Depip squad should have proven this to you. That was their point
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Heres a real vid of possibly the best killer on DBD. Watch how helpless he becomes... Your telling me this isn't a problem?
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"Fake"
I think @Yamaoka can confirm they're real.
There's one of them was a clip but yet that was a 4k 5 gen.
And back to my discussion, a killer doing a 4k in less than 2 minute is survivor's mistake, but a survivor team getting all 5 gen done in less than 3 minute is a game design problem? 😂, btw take a chill pill dude, you're really salty lmao
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He's far from being the best killer un 'in the game he's over dramatic on every survivor mechanic in the game and even blame them for his mistakes
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Because I've been playing this game since release, and have forgotten more about this game then you probably even know, and trying to have someone tell me killers win matches in 2-3 mins. Maybe against there friends playing around, or a red rank killer going at rank 20's, but I still don't believe a match being finished in 2-3 mins... That's what you stated, correct? A killer can win a match in 2-3 mins, considering the 1st stage of the hook takes 60 secs...
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These only prove the point that all survivors going down in under 3 minutes is down to survivor misplays. The last clip literally had two survivors standing in place and pointing at the instadown killer, lmao.
If survivors rush at you in the open, or crouch in place, and you’re playing a killer with a chainsaw then yes you can get kills fast. But again, that’s down to the survivors playing like rank 20s.
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Here's another one btw, no addon nurse, only BBQ.
"Watch how helpless this survivors are :("
BTW best KILLER? Lmao, he's probably one of the biggest cry baby which blames the game for his own mistakes.
- Why did he do that swing at the start of the match?
- Great build Insidious and that trash hex perk on huntress, LMAO.
- People were using cards, so that basically was a meme match, imagine thinking a meme match is a example of why gen speed are bad, lmao.
- Missing every hatchet.
- He wasn't able to use his power for 15 seconds because of the cards, but yeah let's take this vid as a example of why gen speed are bad.
- Chased that adam for too long instead of focusing on the other side of the map
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Exactly, dont get me wrong.
But a killer getting gen rushed isn't his fault? IT is.
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This is what we needed to see.
Yes, these 4k slug wins happen when all the survivors are packed together, a survivor's mistake since anyone in the red ranks wouldn't touch a gen if he sees 2 people on it (unless there's prove thyself)
If someone brings a shroud of binding or you luckily spawn together you can just, you know, split up? And then he won't get the 4k win?
My point is, if you play well you should be rewarded for it. And holding m1 and hiding in a bush the entire game shouldn't be given a free win in 260 seconds as shown in the video.
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this was before nurse's "Addon pass". And regardless these survivors were playing awfu, the fact that the nurse got a free hit without even blinking proves it.
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