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The real reason you hate Spirit
Comments
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Why do people not understand their own heads? The fun in competitive games is the competition - which isn't what DBD used to be about, and isn't what the Devs have been going for, because that would make it available for e-sports and filled with the absolute brainfrying toxicity and sweat that that entails.
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People confuse competitive with e-sports all the time for some reason. DBD is a competitive game because players compete against eachother to win. That does not by any means mean its an e-sports/ready designed game. Blows my mind that people still confuse the two.
Mario Party is another competitive game. See the distincition?
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I mean I've been told league of legends isnt competitive before, some people are just odd.
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That is a fair point, I was just making the comparison between competitive games and E-sports.
I should've probably made that more clear.
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your right don't know why people don't understand this.
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If you read anyone's advice on how to run from Spirit, not one of them says "do random #########". Not one.
You shouldn't be doing random things. You she be doing things that counter what you know to be her only valid options. In most cases that is 1) she is behind you or 2) she went around to the other side to cut you off.
Run tiles. Use windows. Don't ever run back to the husk. Break LOS to force phase. Those are the basics to beat her. Nothing random, no guessing, if you know what she is and is not capable of you can counter play her. It doesn't matter if she knows where you are if she can never hit you coming out of phase anyway.
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The entirety of the FGC doesn't consider Smash a competitive game despite Smash Melee single handedly getting x10 more views on Twitch than all other games at Evo combined.
No, the game itself is fun, AND winning is fun. No one plays a game that's not fun, whether they win or not. IDK why you insist that competitive games are not fun, that's like your opinion man. Ask anyone that plays a game competitively and they will tell you they do it for fun. Only the top 1% of players may say "I do it for the money" because they are at a point where they actually make a living playing the game, and you don't necessarily have to have fun at work for you to continue to do it, do you?
Also it doesn't matter what DBD "used to be about" whatever that means, or the devs intentions, the game is a competitive game because many many players are playing to win. At least at high ranks where Spirit is most common.
It seems to me you just don't like eSports. Your comments about DBD are just so wrong there is no other explanation.
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None of these tactics work on me when I play spirit. The LOS one is usually countered by simply pretending to phase and they'll double back because there's a 9/10 chance you are trying to cut them off or short phasing for a second or two. Using pallets on anything but the safest pallets in the entire game like the basement ones on The Game or the badham basement isnt viable if your visible before phase and vaults are easy to hear. If its a short loop you can even just stand mid length around the pallet and phase in place and you'll get a free hit 9/10 as they try to predict which side to end up on.
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If she stands still, break LOS of the husk and just put as much distance as possible between you. I've had this work many many times, my guess is you're not committing enough to a direction and doubling back, which means less distance. If she is following you then she will be right on top of you now. If she is going around to cut you off, well now you're cut off and she's pushing you back the other way.
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I hate spirit because she isnt fun and deletes any resource the survivor can use with minimal input or skill required
its not complicated
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Mixup characters in fighting games and Spirit are nothing alike, I doubt OP has even a basic understanding of fighting games to make a post like that.
Mixup situations in FGs are a reward for playing good, Zangief is a very annoying 50/50 character only when he is close to you, to balance that out he is extremely slow, has bad neutrals and huge hitbox. He doesn't magically make you guess just by being there, he has to find an opening first and his reward for playing good neutral with a bad neutral character is strong mixups. Missing a mixup also leads to punishment most of the time, if Zangief's opponent reads the command grab he gets a full combo, if he reads the meaty Zangief looses his offense and his opponent gets control back.
In dbd all Spirit has to do is press M2. It doesn't matter what the survivor does, how experienced he his, how bad the spirit is, as long as she presses M2 she forces the surv to guess. Unlike a fighting game character she indeed does magically make you guess just by being there, she doesn't have to do anything to get her mixup. And what's the survs reward for reading correctly ? Like 7 seconds of breathing room before the Spirit presses M2 again ?
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"Mixup situations in FGs are a reward for playing good, Zangief is a very annoying 50/50 character only when he is close to you, to balance that out he is extremely slow, has bad neutrals and huge hitbox. He doesn't magically make you guess just by being there, he has to find an opening first and his reward for playing good neutral with a bad neutral character is strong mixups. Missing a mixup also leads to punishment most of the time, if Zangief's opponent reads the command grab he gets a full combo, if he reads the meaty Zangief looses his offense and his opponent gets control back."
Spirit is a 110 killer meaning it is easier to hide from her than a 115. She can't spend time searching for your, and her power is counter-productive to tracking so she can't use it to find you either. She has downsides outside of a chase, she is just really strong in a chase. If you hide and never get chased, well explain how that isn't counter play.
Spirit has to find you before she can chase you. You don't need to "guess" as you people like to say if she's not chasing you.
Missing a phase has a huge punishment. 110 for 15 seconds. If you miss enough phase hits that's all gens done and game.
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Do you even play the game ? If it was as easy as just "Hide and never get chased" then doctor and stealth killers would be S tier and all the other killers trash. Stealth barely works past rank 15, I can count on my hand the number of times I didn't manage to find a survivor who tried to hide in the past 2 months. And her being 110 makes it so you take like 1 second more to look around a place than 115 killers, damn what a drawback.
You only are 110 for 15 seconds if you use your entire power, which any decent player doesn't do. You don't need more than 2-3 seconds of use to be where you want to be. Addons exist too.
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Stealth works just fine at all ranks. It's just not easy at high ranks. I play at rank 1 I literally just finish a game where I was able to hide from a Freddy while he searched for me around a gen. Made him waste a solid 20 seconds before he left to go to another gen, and guess what? I just got right back on the gen and finished. 3e, I escaped.
Hiding is a completely valid and reasonable tactic. If you say it's not then you just suck at it plain and simple.
Also if the Spirit is using their power in bursts then running tiles is even more effective on them. You eventually force them to use a full phase to catch up to you.
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I guess you are a galaxy brain top player then, stealth was the real meta all along and the huge majority is just too bad to figure it out. Can't wait to see you erase spirit and nurse players in tournaments dude
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uhh...but you shouldn't be comparing the one on one survivor-killer interaction to a fighting game? ...or maybe you should. And regardless, saying "the real reason" is implying that people haven't pointed out the fact that a big issue some people have with Spirit is the whole "standing still and not phasing" thing, which is your point about starting animations.
Disclaimer: I don't mind Spirit and I quite liked playing against Prayer bead spirits (w/o Spine Chill I would like to point out).
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Can I ask in the situation with the freddy were you asleep or awake, if asleep I'm really impressed given that blue glow everyone's got
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I was asleep and he had Shadowborn.
It wasn't hard. He hooked someone across the map, I had a feeling he was coming to my gen (why he didn't teleport IDK), so I walked away to another tile. Halfway there I heard the lullaby. He came over, kicked my gen with Pop and looked for me for like 20 seconds. Guy got saved about when he got to me, so by hiding I reset all his pressure because the guy was healed and on another gen by the time he got back.
Stealth doesn't have to be anything crazy. Literally just walk away and don't let the killer see you. If they waste time looking for you that's as good as a chase.
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Why do people still compare DBD to fighting games? That's just such a ridiculous comparison IMO. Would you really claim to be able to 'read' an unknown opponent if you died in two hits while being unable to see or hear the opponent in a fighting game? You have no time to learn that at all if they are an expert at Spirit.
@thesuicidefox Crossplay is on now. I'm willing to let you show me these Spirit counters at any time.
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Dead By Daylight Esports players up in here
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"Ask anyone that plays a game competitively and they say it's for fun."
Yeah. Competitively. That's my point. It's not fun to muck about in competitive games. They're playing to win, and by winning they have fun, not by just playing the game. It's basic psychology: Pit people against one a other and most of them will try to win because they don't care about anything else.
That's not DBD. Go back to the competitive scene. This is clearly not the game for you.
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It is a game where you compete against other players, rather aggressively at that. It has established metas, rewards for success, and punishments for failure. Saying this game "clearly isn't for" someone because they also enjoy competitive games (that, you know, have those things in common) is being a bit rude to say the least. Also kinda pointless.
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If DBD was a competitive game, then 2 competitive teams would have a relatively even chance of success. And yet the term "deathsquad" exists for a reason: There's no chance at all, even if you're the best Nurse player with an Ebony Mori, to win. If DBD was even slightly considered competitive, that would be every other trial instead of every tenth.
And that's ignoring all the times the Devs have said it's not a competitive game and shouldn't be treated as such.
Siege player, BTW. Love the game. Love the competition. DBD is not and never should get anywhere close to that, because not every game needs to be that. If people want DBD to be that... Then it really isn't the game for them.
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That just means that the balance in the game is bad, not that its not competitive. And is your argument really "the game can't be competitive, because not every game is a coordinated swf?" You DO realize that people don't take advantage of every possible exploit in competitive games, right? You learn more from a loss than a win, thats one of the most important fundamental aspects of ANY competitive game. Winning is the goal, but what you take away from a loss can make it more rewarding than an easy win. You're acting like every match in any competitive game is a money match.
There are no bots in the game, there isn't even an "unranked" mode. SWF goes against the game's core design, and was added in after the fact because of survivors who were basically sabotaging the matchmaking system to get teamed up with each other. Survivor and killer objectives directly conflict with one another. It is purely pvp. it is competitive.
Competitive doesn't mean "multi-million dollar e-sports tournaments."
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1) There is a fighting game called Divekick that is literally that. You die in 1 or 2 hits. The entire game is a bit of a meme, but fighting games like this do exist.
2) Some infinite combos exist in some games such that, basically getting hit once or twice is death against a good player. UMVC3's Zero is a prime example of this, he has a 0 to death combo on pretty much every character in the game. All it takes is 1 hit confirm and your character is dead.
3) Yes crossplay is on but there are some issues. First frame rates are still god awful on console and it's honestly not fair at all to play against a PC player with uncapped/stabled 60 FPS while our game can barely run at 30 FPS. If you don't believe me go play on console and just wait until you get hit by Sloppy. The game shits itself. Second, and I've made this point before, you are a good killer. I honestly doubt I could outplay you when you are Bubba let alone Spirit. I mean just the fact you have that one video of you getting like 40 4k's in a row with pre-update speed limiter Bubba should say to you "hey there's not many survivors that can outplay me, period."
Maybe later in the year when the game comes out on Series X and such I'll take up the offer but for now I don't think it will actually prove anything.
EDIT: I'd also like to point out that you clearly misunderstand what a read actually is.
A read is not a REACTIVE action. It is a PREDICTIVE action. You don't read an opponent by reacting to their character's animation or something. You read them by predicting what they will do and then pre-emptively countering them. This is exactly what you need to do against a mix up character, and exactly what you need to do against Spirit. You need to make accurate predictions.
And no a prediction is not a guess I've been over this. A prediction factors in information, previous encounters, and just basic knowledge of the game. A guess is just a shot in the dark. You can predict someone will do a thing. If you skip back a few pages I posted a Smash Melee video of top 10 reads. Again the second clip, Luigi read that Peach would tech roll to the left, so he did a landing wavedash left then did up B on the confirm for the tech roll. He PREDICTED she would do that because she was close to death and the safest option would be to roll closer to the middle of the stage. He might have also notice he rolls left so he was taking advantage of his opponents predictability. Nothing what happened there was him reacting to the roll animation or any of this stuff you seem to think. It was a prediction. He had 4 options, tech roll left (safe), tech roll right (unsafe), tech in place (unsafe) or don't tech (super unsafe). So tell me of those 4 options which do you think the other guy will pick? The safest option, which he did.
Post edited by thesuicidefox on1 -
"That's not DBD. Go back to the competitive scene. This is clearly not the game for you."
I legit LOL'd here. Bro, what planet are you on where neither killers nor survivors are sweating to win at high ranks? Like really get with the program.
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Number 1 custom games with 2 people run at 60 frames. Stop making excuses lol. Also doesnt that kinds prove you cant counter a good spirit because you said it yourself you are scared and hes good. It's all good though.
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I feel like its not fair to have the defense of "Well you're good at the game so there wouldn't be a point." No one is complaining about bad Spirits that don't know what they're doing.
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Bro it's the same thing if you asked Mew2King to prove to you that [insert character] is overpowered. I'm willing to bet regardless of who you pick he can make them seem overpowered because he is a really good player (one of the best in the world) and you're not that good (I assume maybe you play Melee but I'm still confident you are no where near M2K).
Like really what do you expect to get out of this challenge? You saying "1v1 me bro" in a game that's not exclusively about a 1v1. My friend Cesar is really good at the game, one of the best survivors I know, but when we go into a KYF to practice and it's just me chasing him I catch him in like 30-40 seconds as most killers. But I know in a real game I'd spend like 2 minutes easy chasing him. Like yea you caught Zubat pretty fast in a 1v1, but do you think you'd still catch him that fast in a real match? I honestly doubt it. A real game is different than this little highly controlled environment.
Basically what I'm trying to say is that all these types of challenges prove is that you are better than another player, not that there is a problem with the game or character or whatever.
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Yeah I did though he defends spirit heavily but with the chance to prove it he denies it even though if you put it on blood lodge restart your game first and it's a 1v1 its 60 frames for console I play on xbox one s trust me.
The token system might actually work ngl.
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This game has never run at 60 FPS on Xbox. It doesn't matter if you are in KYF or not, the game is capped at 30 on console. You are imagining things.
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Game isnt capped at 30 on consoles if you play 1v1 kyf the game runs extremely smooth. Try it out if you do not believe.
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Or maybe, as I said, Scott is just a way better player and all this would do is prove he is a better player not that Spirit has no counterplay.
But I see what you guys are doing. "Oh just 1v1 me bro... oh yea he is scared he won't do it that must mean Spirit has no counterplay". No that's not what that means. It means I know I'll die because Scott is just better than me at the game.
Like if we were playing Mortal Kombat and Scott was one of the top players in that game and I'm just some guy that plays like a third as much as him, and he said "Scoprion is overpowered" then 1v1'd me as Scorpion, don't you'd think he win regardless? Yea pretty much the same thing here.
He's never going to get someone to do what he wants in this challenge because there are only so many players on his level. Why don't we make it fair, let's have Scott's Spirit against Zubat, Puppers, Monto, and IDK True I guess. Some of the top players in the game, that seems like a fair match to show whether or not Spirit is OP. But I don't see him going out of his way to set this kind of thing up either.
Don't be intellectually dishonest. You guys know exactly why this challenge is BS.
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The game might run better with less people, but it definitely does not run at 60 FPS or even "extremely smooth". Look at the skill checks. The game is CAPPED at 30 FPS. Games don't just magically run at a higher FPS.
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The sad thing is though I don't even do anything amazing as Spirit. Its not like a fighting game pro who has dedicated his craft to the genre. I just have a good headset and use my power in short bursts so even if I mess up I can just do it again in five seconds. Its really not that hard to play Spirit.
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Max frames on xbox even with a one x is 30FPS the game is not xbox one x enhanced and CANNOT exceed 30 fps Scott would have a huge advantage optimization wise. and besides 1v1 proves absolutely nothing what does that prove? play a real match against survivors who know what they are doing against spirit.
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Yeah on survivor bad frame isnt nearly as detrimental as killer and on top of that maps like blood lodge run pretty smooth most of the time. He just like you said rather not be made a fool of.
Yeah it makes sense now the spirit players will actually have to be strategic if they want to win games.
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So you can nitpick and dismiss them like every other video? Sure.
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Regardless of that fact the game runs extremely good and it's a non issue making that an excuse.
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More like a pointless effort to convince someone that doesn't care to actually have a discussion.
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Imagine thinking a 1v1 proves anything in DBD.
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I mean it directly proves the chasing potential of the killer. Obviously not the only important point of the game, but to say it proves nothing is a bit disingenuous.
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It can for one prove if a killers 1v1 needs tweaking due to its oppressive ability *cough deathslinger cough*. Keep making excuses because I though you could "read" all these spirits stridor included, but when scott comes you cant prove it lol.
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But the entire thing is set up and doesn't represent the actual game.
Again my buddy is a solid survivor. We play in KYF I can catch him really fast because it's just us and in a controlled environment. In an actual game I doubt I could catch him anywhere near that fast because I'm not chasing him in a bubble.
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The customs will only have predetermined start areas that's it why are you trying so hard to not do this 1v1?
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look it up dbd is not one of the games to run at 60fps on xbox your not speaking any truth here
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you obviously havent seen the difference on pc
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Well regardless of that I stand by my point the game in a custom 1v1 runs significantly better and pretty good. If theh were to do that it would make it "fair."
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As someone who plays a lot of fighting games. I don't have issues with characters that have a lot of mix ups. I do have issues with characters who have a vortex. Mix up characters have tools to open you up, but usually if you are good at blocking you can see them coming just before it hits and block accordingly. Vortex characters make you guess, usually after a knock down and on your wake up, you guess the correct action without having a way to know, or react, to what is coming next.
That sounds....a lot like Spirit. Spirit is strong but tolerable imo, until she get's that first hit and you are injured you basically have no real counterplay, you are desperately guessing and are forced to guess. Just like a vortex character in a fighting game. And let me tell you, I hate these characters in fighting games.
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whatever you say
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