The real reason you hate Spirit
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You just want to deny for the simple fact that you dont want your friend fox to be made a fool of himself. It's ok I respect it, it's for the homies. Although he has a perfect chance to prove himself and denies it.
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no i would want it to be 100% equal on both sides. Im not s firm believer in 1v1 either. I think it would have to be 1v4 as the game is made for that. To play someone who has better optimization is just asking to lose. like i said what ever you say there champ.
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I'll be honest in that I haven't read most of this thread. That said, the whole thing with the Mix-Up character is true if you break it down to its bare essentials:
Going against Spirit is about making correct reads. You look at how the opponent is playing, and you make reads based on the situation and your knowledge of their playstyle. I have used this against lesser Spirit players to drop pallets on their head when they probably thought they had free real estate.
That said, while this game has many angles in which the killer can come after you, it primarily comes down to reading their timing and having resources around you to mitigate their play. Good spirit players swap out their angles and movements around pallets so they don't become too predictable. That makes reading them harder. They also swap around between an immediate lunge out of SPOOPY GHOST mode or waiting a moment to bait out a Dead Hard. The back and forth present in this game can make reads much harder, as seemingly a million elements are at play and your brain is whipping through them at the speed of light to try and make a correct assessment of the Killers incoming strike, as well as what options you have to foil it. I think this is where the real frustration comes from.
For some people, those background calculations come naturally and the choices that immediately boil up are decisive. They may not be right, but the Survivor feels they know their options and must make a quick and educated guess on which to utilize.
For others, however, those background calculations don't really fall in as quickly and they resort to basic jukes or dodges in hopes of stalling long enough to have an answer. Those ones end up getting hit because they couldn't make a read. Even if a read is wrong, it's better than being indecisive and running on auto-pilot. Mix-Up characters punish that kind of gameplay.
Good Spirit players basically know all of this, and all of these factors also run in the background of their mind as they make plays and decide on how to strike. It almost becomes 4D chess that they just naturally play into.
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I mean I went against a pc streamer and only lost due to the fact that we had an early dc. And if you wanna see the footage I uploaded it. Frames as survivor sodsnt make you a worst looper. 30 frames if it truly is capped is not that bad I'm telling you.
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I've had a lot different of an experience with cross play. Sure I've had games where i escaped pc killers but that just meant the killer wasn't that great. If there were to be any 1v1 both sides should have equal variables. Whether or not you have had a good experience its still a difference at the end of the day.
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You underestimate mine,yours, and all our console players skills. Escaping a pc killer does not make them bad.
In a custom the game runs extremely well if you would go try it you wouldnt try and make more excuses. Maybe you are a really good player and you dont know.
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That's not the point I'm trying to get across here. The fact isn't a matter of skill its a matter or optimization and limiting abilities due to frames and or resolution. Just last night i was playing as bubba and frames would drop and teleport me into objects while sweeping my chainsaw. Or oni and the entire framerate would drop next to nothing. Its terrible and i dont think it a fair or equal match for pc to 1v1 someone from console.
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Could we just get a Phasing animation? Where she slowly begins to fade away, would that be so hard or, game breaking?
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Dude all a 1v1 proves is that one player is better than another, nothing else. That is why I won't take his challenge because it doesn't actually prove anything about the game.
And for the record I never took a 1v1 in my over 20k hours of Gears of War series either, despite being way better than like 95% of the player base (I was placed in diamond rank for TDM and Guardian in the first season of Gears 4, as in I got put in the absolute highest rank from placement matches alone). If I said Lancer is overpowered in Gears 4, someone would come up and say "well 1v1 me with Lancer I'll beat you". Thing is that Lancer by itself isn't OP, it's only OP when you stack them IE. during a team fight. It is easy to avoid 1 guy with a Lancer. It is not so easy to avoid 3 guys with Lancers all covering each other's blind spots, and covering all your approach options. Furthermore, a 1v1 here is the same thing; just show who is the better player nothing else. No one ever proved anything about the game doing a 1v1 in Gears, even when what they were trying to prove was actually quite obvious (eg. Retro in Gears 3 is OP, anyone that plays this game knows this).
In order to prove things about the game you have to play an actual match. Playing a 1v1 in a bubble outside the normal game does not prove a damn thing except which player is better.
Post edited by thesuicidefox on2 -
This is not an accurate comparison. I used to play Spirit. She was the first one I moved away from Trapper for. The problem was, she gave me a false sense of security. I was a middle of the road killer trying to ween myself off of NOED as my crutch. I started using Spirit and felt good. I was getting 3 to 4k every match. I could end loops easily with her power. I could easily locate survivors while phasing through sound. No matter what trick they used, it was easy.
Then I played Trapper and Pig again and got destroyed. I could not sit back and easily isolate survivors. I had to work out mind games and learn from mistakes.
I eventually added one plus one and figured out that Spirit was easy because she does not have much, if any counter play. The best counter play to Spirit is hoping the one playing her is not very good.
Now, I rarely run her unless there is a daily for her. I'm much better as a killer, especially with Trapper, because I did not have the easy win button.
Spirit, especially with Stridor, is not fun for many because she outright eliminates the skill level of the survivors she faces. It is more about the killer's skill level than anything else.
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"I eventually added one plus one and figured out that Spirit was easy because she does not have much, if any counter play."
Alternative theory, Spirit makes survivors brains leak out their ears and they just do really really stupid things that actually just make it easier to catch them. I play Spirit, Huntress, and Nurse primarily. I notice that anytime I play Spirit survivors just do REALLY dumb #########. Like super dumb #########. ######### I would never expect them to do against any other killer. ######### that just makes no sense.
Spirit feels easy because survivors overthink how to outplay her and end up outplaying themselves.
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Thank you for your input. You have a valid point about vortex characters, I didn't even think about that. Good looking out.
However, as I've stated before, you're not guessing against Spirit. She generally has 2-3 valid options to actually catch you and you usually have at least 1 option on any given tile that would avoid at least 2 of her options. Some tiles can avoid all of them, for example really strong windows like Ward or even Suffocation Pit (both the building and having connected LT walls in the middle).
Against a vortex you are definitely going to get hit, it's a matter of which move you get hit with. Against Spirit you are not always going to get hit because she can't reach you with phase, but the chase will continue because she will end phase and still be following you. It's like you avoid the vortex but the it's still the other guys turn, if that makes sense.
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-Fair point in that it is not base kit. However the option still exists and still illustrates the point that the Spirit does essentially 0 guess work while the survivor has 0 real information.
-Stridor 'distorts' depth perception for only as long as you are not used to the change. A Spirit who runs Stridor and is familiar with the change suffers no downsides. In general, these arguments tend to assume the players are familiar and skilled with their respective side.
-The discussion around punishment/reward is an attempt to display how in a fighting game the defender still has agency and can turn the interaction around. If a Spirit minds their phasing bar they will never be punished in any real amount for making a mistake.
All of this is merely an attempt to illustrate why Spirit is not a 50/50 and why games with Spirit can be seen as unfun for the survivors.
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Once again in a custom game the frames are great. Trust me we can try it out if you want its Azame San on xbox. Restart your game and let's hop in a custom just us two and run around and experience it.
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You just contradicted yourself. "All 1v1 do is prove one player is better than another. I never took a 1v1 despite being better than 95% of the players." It's fine you cant prove spirit has counterplay.
A 1v1 doesn't just show who's better than another. If you say there is counterplay why not showcase it 1v1 or not you should be able to do it. The only artificial thing is the predetermined start area other than that it's a normal chase which you keep trying to say otherwise.
On your gears situation season 1 in ranked match was busted placing diamond meant nothing and the opponents 4 years ago were not good. Diamond in the later seasons such as 6 took more skill.
You claim you beat some many spirits and outplay them and everyone just refuses to learn how to loop differently. Scott jund is no different. Its whatever though man if you cant showcase the counterplay it only makes you look bad.
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She's not fun to play against.
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I dont see how he contradicts himself in that situation, would you care to elaborate?
Also in a 1v1 situation all you have to think about is the specific chase, you dont need to worry about keeping any pressure on gens, or worrying about anything else at all except the chase, which will inevitably skew results.
1v1s dont really reflect balance in any game involving teams, especially in asymmetric games but even in symmetrical team based games, such as league of legends for example, you wouldn't use a 1v1 to prove whether or not vayne or jinx are overpowered, as they are designed in a way that they rely on their team to peel for them so they do the damage.
Similarly DBD is designed in a way where 1 killer has a chance to win against 4 survivors, therefore if you reduce the survivors numbers the game will start to favour the killer more and more.
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"You just contradicted yourself. "All 1v1 do is prove one player is better than another. I never took a 1v1 despite being better than 95% of the players." It's fine you cant prove spirit has counterplay."
Yea because I'm so much better than the average player I could "prove" Snub is overpowered. It's not, I'm just a really really good player. It doesn't matter what I use, I will win against the other guy way more often than I lose.
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So basicly you want to be able to win vs the killer 1v1 in the only aspect of the game you like and that already works on the majority of killers.
Sounds balanced.
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Part of the reason they are trying outlandish tactics is because the norm, or logical, do not work. From the survivor side there is way too much chance involved. There is little to no way of knowing what side of a window or pallet Spirit is moving on. Sometimes they just try to do something unexpected and it turns into a worse situation.
Honestly, I think 3 minor tweaks could fix all the issues on Spirit.
1. Make it more difficult to track by simple sounds, such as breathing and footfalls while phasing. Either make it greatly intermittent or just increase the noise the killer hears from the phasing sound itself. Make the killer's skill at anticipating survivor actions more important.
2. Have her movement "kick up dust". Let the survivor see an ever so subtle movement of grass or dust as she moves. Skilled survivors, or attentive ones, might pick up on it to make a play.
3. With the previous 2 intact, revert to the old Prayer Beads where phasing makes no noise at all. Survivors will be warned of her approach if they are paying attention. There will be grass or disturbed environmental as she moves.
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