😭 So many DC's....
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Ironic because I play Claudette with Calm Spirit lol
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Idk about yall, but when I play killer and people DC, I just chill until the number of gens done is one less than the existing number of survivors before I go on the attack again. They're free to quit at any point, in the end they're just wasting their own time and BP.
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Slugging the 3rd survivor to find the 4th to prevent a hatch escape - is not taking the game hostage and is not against the game rules in the slightest.
DC'ing is against the game rules, it's Unsportsmanlike Behaviour and is treated as such, please stop advocating for it on our forums as this is completely against the rules of our forum.
Thank you.
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I had a hag disconnect on me last night. She already had one person on a hook, saw me working on a gen with bbq so she came right over. I managed to evade a hit and then I smacked her with a pallet 5 seconds later. Apparently that was enough to d/c? First thing I thought was “ What a baby.” I’m not even that good, I just got lucky with that 1-2 combo. She probably would have gotten me if she didn’t give up so fast. lol
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are you one of the people who complains about the existence of hatch
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"Slugging the 3rd survivor to find the 4th to prevent a hatch escape - is not taking the game hostage and is not against the game rules in the slightest."
So if I slug them and let them bleed out to death every game, that's fair? And what the actual ######### is the point of the hatch if I can just bypass it like that? It's a direct contravention to a game mechanic. This is basically systemic toxicity and probably the main reason why this game has unparalleled rage quitting.
The bottom line is that there needs to be a way to get out of this scenario that is not cheating. Don't just get mad at people for not having a solution to a crappy issue. Help resolve the issue.
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Slugging will eventually kill the survivor, so no it's not taking the game hostage. It's in fact a valuable tool that the killer has at their disposal in order to put pressure on the survivors, it's a pretty necessary mechanic in a lot of circumstances.
DC'ing is quite simply ruining the game and refusing to take part in the game - hence that is the thing that's against our game rules.
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"Slugging will eventually kill the survivor"
There's no reason to hook in the end game according to this. Just let them all bleed out and camp hatch while they do. Obviously this is painful for survivors, moreso than a DC, but this seems to be the natural endpoint for the gameplay you'd personally like to see. Not sure why.
"DC'ing is quite simply ruining the game"
Then maybe fix the slug-hatch issue and stop creating no-win slug simulators. I'm not even advocating DC at this point(and I never actually did even once, I just said I've done it before), but refusal to admit a problem is why the DC solution is prevalent, along with a couple others.
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I would rather let someone take their place mid match. Give them all of the bloodpoints that the dc left. Would help survivor queue time too.
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A slugging killer in a hatch-scenario is just acting according to the game. What you're advocating is, like I'd mentioned above, taking the ball because you're mad and BOO-HOO-HOOING all the way home... except perceiving it as pride/honor instead of recognizing the childish spite.
Do you think if all 4 survivors are getting ready to escape, it's cool for the killer to just disconnect? Those survivors are trying to screw killer gameplay by selfishly trying to all escape, right? And well too bad about whatever "be the last person to escape as..." or "open the exit gates as..." tasks they had the right to (and reasonably would) claim. Is this "you should've considered my fun (as I personally define it), so I'm going to flip the board over" a universal condition here?
I'm really hoping the comparison will drive home why it's simply not cool no matter what. There's a material difference in playing within a game's context versus acting OUTSIDE the game to affect it. It's always a "u mad" move in the end, and unreasonable.
When you've got a problem with the mechanics, you need appeal to the developers to get that changed. What you're proposing instead is that it's legit to hold X pet peeve against the other players when they're just operating under the established game conditions with the good-faith expectation that everyone else accepts them, or they wouldn't be there.
When you can't accept the game and conditions as they exist, YOU SIMPLY DO NOT PLAY. That is the only reasonable, rational, and adult thing to do. You flow with the game established (even parts you dislike) instead of childishly abandoning it... because that's childish.
The whole idea of a game is a fun/light experience, though the one consistent operating qualifier that you're onboard with whatever the particular game's rules/conditions in good-faith here. It's not about your personal fun versus their personal fun. It's straight up the default/reasonable code of behavior implemented for the greatest good of everyone. Sometimes that code favors your time/experience over others, other times that means sucking it up and letting the conditions favor someone else's time/experience. It's not about any given situation or selfish maximization of fun/resources; it's a set of reasonable, mature behaviors in the best interest of all.
Wrapping up other stuff here:
You miss the point of "sometimes the killer has to..." to focus on the frequency instead of the need. I'm currently sitting in the boat where I've got 2 devout emblems left to achieve here despite many, many close matches where entitled children have gone this exact route and screwed me over. The end result is just more matches where I'm dedicated to playing to the death of all players whether I'd personally like to or not in normal circumstances. But EVEN IF IT WEREN"T THAT... then still an aspect of the game you're agreeing to you when you play. It's not your place to decide to take the ball home when you personally feel the killer is "greedy."
And I suppose my anecdotal experience is just different from yours, though I've frequently encountered killers that keep true to the Final Girl experience, some that decide to let all players go, and other weird emergent decisions of circumstance. Just this morning I was carried to the hatch. Yesterday I stopped after hooking everyone twice when the whole match was ruined by yet another entitled child who felt getting downed makes it totes fair to DC because "me, me, me, me, me."
To specifically address this.... "According to your theory though, the best move a killer could make would be to slug the last two, let them bleed out on the ground until one is about to die, then pick the other up right before in order to minimize chance of DS,hatch time, etc. Basically screw survivor gameplay." …What? No. That's not sensible as any move, let alone the best idea. You act as fast as possible (or waiting a maximum of 60 seconds in specific conditions of decisive strike) because there's literally no point waiting. Letting them bleed out is the worst case situation and nets you nothing.
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No? I was bringing up the mechanic that resulted in the type of emergent gameplay they dislike and how it's essentially unavoidable from the killer end too. I think they need to adjust emblems/achievements as a result of the impact that the no-generator progress hatches still have on match scoring, but I like the hatch. I like it a lot.
Uh... would that mean/change something about all the points I brought up if the answer had been yes? Does it mean something here now that the answer is no? I don't really follow you.
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You dont need to be timed out for a dc, just make it so they moved at 95% speed next match, can only use 2 perks and lose a whole rank.
maybe not the first dc cause maybe its legit. But 2nd dc... and the speed penalty increase each consecutive dc each day
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1)"What you're advocating is, like I'd mentioned above, taking the ball because you're mad and BOO-HOO-HOOING all the way home"
You want me to read your novel after opening up like this? Are you trying to be persuasive? If so, why bother putting this at the forefront? It is frustrating having to be slugged at the end of games. That's not that objectionable.
2)"Do you think if all 4 survivors are getting ready to escape, it's cool for the killer to just disconnect?"
I feel like you're baiting me into something you can report like someone else has already done, but yes I do. To be clear I'm not advocating DC'ing. I can understand the impulse and I've never been angry from a killer DC'ing. If a killer DCs I am cool with it.
3)"When you can't accept the game and conditions as they exist, YOU SIMPLY DO NOT PLAY. That is the only reasonable, rational, and adult thing to do. You flow with the game established (even parts you dislike) instead of childishly abandoning it"
This is actually the childish thing to do. Kicking and pouting whenever someone points out an obvious flaw that occurs regularly is not a reasonable thing to do. Acknowledge that the problem exists instead of ignoring it, or argue a way around it. Obviously you cannot argue or debate how annoying being slugged is just so the 3k can be a 4k. You want people to stare at a screen for the sake of your meager pride. That's not fun. That's not fair. If there is a problem it should be fixed- not ignored as you would have it (for some reason).
4)"The whole idea of a game is a fun/light experience"
Exactly- so why are you ignoring an obvious and consistent problem faced by tens of thousands of players whenever they log on? There obviously needs to be a solution to this. And no, your "suck it up" is not fair for people who put time and money into it. You do not have an answer so you choose to essentially reject any answer there is. There is obviously a problem. You regard that people are DCing but fail to understand or even entertain why anyone would feel that way. Whether you like it or not it's going to keep happening and the longer you fail to realize why people aren't having fun with you the problem is only going escalate.
5)"Yesterday I stopped after hooking everyone twice when the whole match was ruined by yet another entitled child who felt getting downed makes it totes fair to DC"
The hilarious thing about your last paragraph is that you admitted that other people have mercy but you don't and you can't figure out why people don't like playing with you. You are not fun to play with. People don't have to like you. If you know you're playing badly it's not everyone else's fault: it is yours. You need to grow up and take responsibility instead of exploiting no-win scenarios.
6) " That's not sensible as any move, let alone the best idea."
"there's literally no point waiting."
Actually it is, by your logic and others, very prudent to just knock all of the survivors and let them bleed out until the second to last gets killed then pickup the final survivor before an ADR can activate. Not only because DS lasts a long time and I'm not a human clock but also because it means there is a zero percent chance of hatch if you follow that routine every single time. If you pick them up as fast as possible that entails a chance at hatch for one of the slugged people(which is the whole reason you slug the second to last player anyways-you've admitted you do this already). So far, everyone who is hurt by DCs occurring seems to think the idea of two or more people staring at their downed avatars for a few minutes doing literally nothing is supposed to be fair. I'm not sure how these horrible ideas of unfairness were inculcated but it is not healthy for the game or the community.
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I have suggested killer bots. It'll solve the annoying killer shaming for their perks and tactics then it'll solve disconnections. Let them play with a killer that will do whatever they want. Great for training too.
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That's a great idea but AI is kind of complicated. I'm not an expert but if BHVR doesn't have experts either then they won't release that. Very cool idea though.
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I agree with you @MandyTalk , I really do. but there could be something like you see in CoD: MW where if you are downed you can "GIVE UP" by holding "C" now, this could be done for the KILLER, and it could be coded to give the survivors a "BLACK PIP" and since it's in the match it would not be against the rules. survivor would HAVE to be down to offer this, and it would give the killer the remaining hooks and a sac for that character. This would also be in match functionality thus not against the rules. it would leave the "leave match" which is out of match functionality for the actual issues like being stuck in the geometry as it is designed. :) Thank you for telling others the same think I tell them many times over.
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This is not a penalty. not in the slightest. You DC, you end up either giving the match to the killer OR you ruin the match for EVERYONE. You need a penalty that makes you "think" of what you did. I have come to see disconnects as an exploit because it uses out of match functionality to get a desired outcome in the match. be that robbing killers of points, hooks, challenge progress or even survivors for the same some may need unhooks for one reason or another, but by you dc'ing because you don't like the killer, or the map or what ever then that person can't get their stuff done.
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Got a simple one - holding M2 makes you bleed out 2x as fast. Still a 2 min bleedout, can't ruin the game with that as it's so long (just as long as the entire hook duration) - only purpose is to speed up the ######### waiting process when you are being left to bleed out. Could even make it so this only works at 95% recovery.
The problem is, this is an old suggestion I've even made months ago, and they take an extremely long time to actually implement changes. Odds are even if they did somehow read this and go 'hey, that's a healthy idea without a downside to improve qol for players', we wouldn't see it for 3 months minimum, even though the function could easily be set up for the patch in 3 weeks time.
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Killer main, but play both sides (like 60/40 split) - My sympathies are mostly with survivors at this point. When a killer has a dogshit game on a terrible map vs stacked 2nd chance perks, it's horrible for sure and shouldn't exist, but those matches are FAR less frequent than bullshit unfun survivor experiences, Iri Head, Mori, Spirit etc. Boring as ######### experiences that you wish you'd never queued up for, I don't frequently DC, but I alt f4 hidden offerings unless I'm in 4 man (in which case we usually sweat and tbag, because honestly ######### people who bring moris).
Infact, in general, most of the killers we utterly destroy are the boring ones, which is definitely somewhere between 1 in 3 or 1 in 2 games depending on luck. Killer is Spirit/Freddy/Phead/Slinger? Chase interaction is boring af, just sweat gens, try and destroy them, get out to go next. Hard camping? Just rush gens. Mori? Definitely could never main survivor as someone who enjoys chaes and not stealthing, when the most fun part in a decent number of games is just holding M1 and destroying the killer because he wants to play boring #########, pretty satisfying too. If the killer actually picks someone fun, don't care about winning, just want to make it a fun match - point being that this is because there's no fun to be had when you're vs one of the aforementioned killers.
Feel sorry for anyone who mains survivor honestly, I've always seen people say stuff like 'try killer and you'll feel real pain' 'i feel so sorry for killer mains' - in my experience playing current dbd, the opposite is true for me, survivor is a decently miserable experience and some days I just have to drop it and play another game/switch to killer, as going vs a Spirit into Iri Head into a first hook mori is pretty depressing, yet I notice killers complain far more and it kinda baffles me.
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Yeah, I main survivor. I one-tricked Spirit at one point to get the rank 1 achievement, and I go back to killer to grind BP and tome challenges, but I end up being more bored playing killer than survivor. Though it's a lose-lose situation because 8/10 of my survivor matches aren't very enjoyable anymore. I'm a solo survivor so it's even worse.
I really enjoy facing a Demogorgon and Doctor (if it's not a 3-gen doc), but the only killers I really ever see at rank 1 are Freddy, Spirit, Slinger, and Pyramid Head (as you said), and it's the same build/playstyle every time.
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- I'm stressing a harsh but incredibly apt comparison to DC as childish and petty behavior. I'd stated the same comparison in my earlier replies that it's tantamount to taking your ball and crying home, and before you ever replied to me. That didn't suddenly change after you had. Feel free to outline how that comparison is just totally different from disconnecting when you've lost and just want to block the killer from having their "win" though.
- I don't care about baiting you into anything, and I certainly didn't report you. My primary motivation is making logical arguments for the sake of the issue at large (hence my "novel") in hopes that it crushes this absurdity "woohoo DC=getting back at the man" in principle and for anyone maybe on the fence about goodspot vs rowdy pouty. I'm also going to keep referring to it as "your take" that people are valid to DC in that situation because that's what it is. You can rephrase it however you want to stay on the side of the forum rules, but its cumbersome enough responding without having to sugar coat the meaning of everything. However I wish you many disconnects from Killers who are just being totally fair and I'm sure you will take each one in stride.
- You are not debating the merits of slugging. You are not appealing to the devs, as I'd suggested you do instead. What you're doing here is advocating and justifying people should disconnect cuz they mad. You can pretend otherwise, but pretense won't retcon the conversation into the question of fun or not. It's about whether you're basic for taking your ball and crying when it happens instead of being mature and, yes, sucking it up like every other adult. You're not fooling anyone with "well I'm not AKKKTUALLY saying..." and especially not when here you're even here making statements like "No!! The childish thing is..." with the contrasted inference "...because there's nothing childish at all about disconnecting" clear as crystal.
- Isolating this sentence fragment robs its context. Here you've obviously honed in on the agreed upon part while saying nothing of the caveat that follows--and that being the entire point--which is essentially "if you're gonna play at all, then its reasonably expected you play like a big boy." If you want to justify why its okay to NOT play like a big boy, do that I suppose. But there's no pretending this is/was/suddenly became about how fun slugging is. That's not the issue, never was. Just check the thread topic.
- That's a lot to gleam from such little detail. I guess you think this will make me angry, though I'm mostly confused about what you think "mercy" means when I didn't kill anyone else in the match after I was totally "unfun" for daring to down that player, who I guess was absolutely righteous for quitting. I'm sure all the other disconnects I see as a survivor are actually because I wasn't fun. Lets keep laying that groundwork where you acting up = everyone else's fault.
- I think it's fairly simple counting to 60 and I'm no human clock. You're drawing out an absurd scenario in bad faith, based on other bad faith assumptions, and you know that. Or maybe not entirely---do you not play killer ever? Regardless, it all ultimately comes down to this: if you can't accept the gameplay that exists as it does, then the only adult decision is that you shouldn't play. You don't take it into your own hands to disconnect when you get slugged. That is exactly like taking the ball home and boo-hoo-hooing all the way home. Just like we started with. Just like this conversation will end up with. Because that's what it is. You may never agree with that, but the rules of this game certainly gel with that comparison. If you didn't know that slugging was acceptable before, you do now. So, until you can change the rules, please abide by the game that exists in goodfath or make that mature decision not to play.
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I personally find killer more interesting because you are on your toes and always interacting, it's enjoyable to me, and I don't find balance issues impact my matches (if anything, my issue is I have too many easy matches because it is so easy to get to red ranks), mains are Blight, Demo, Huntress, Bubba but I ultimately play everyone except for Trapper/Spirit and only play Freddy with total meme builds. For survivor I pretty much don't play solo anymore because it's too easy to get to high rank survivor (this impacts my matches on both sides, my biggest issue with killer is matches being too easy) - so I play in a 4 man and try to have fun, if it's a boring af killer/mori then we're just encouraged to make the game as unfun as possible for the killer, if it's a fun killer I feel encouraged to not try and end the game ASAP, do totems, ######### around, try and get into chases all that. Survivor is great when the killers are fun, but the killers pretty much entirely dictate the fun you can have unless you're one of those squads who doesn't do gens and just memes about and goes for jukes and stuff until you die. Not a fan of the hardcore survivor rulebook enforcers or people who complain about swf/genrushing, but for the former I can atleast feel some sympathy when first hand I see the killer pretty much has the power to dictate whether survivors can have fun or not.
Considering how ######### solo surv is in terms of both fun aspect and (IMO) balance, being the weakest role in the game to me, I think my best hope for you is that you manage to find some people to play with. Feels pretty much mandatory to me at this point.
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I'm going to take another stab at this, and I know I'll regret it. You seem unable to tell the difference between apples and oranges. In other words, you don't like a certain situation at the end, so you advocated cheating as a solution to it. You portrayed this act as some kind of noble, selfless nonsense. That isn't fooling anyone. Whether we agree or disagree with you about there being an option added for someone to accelerate their ability to bleed out, nobody but other reprehensible cheats (and you are actually in the minority) is going to agree with you advocating that people break the rules.
My advice, and this is given in good faith and not snarky sarcasm, is that you need to be able to tell these very different topics apart. You SHOULD start a new Discussion making suggestions on what you think would be a good idea for the end of a match, i.e. a way to start to bleed out faster. I would humbly suggest that it would NOT be instant (like a disconnect) but more like the accelerating one's time on the hook. Nobody would be arguing with you. Some of us (perhaps even me) might agree that this would be an interesting discussion and/or addition.
But the discussion in this thread is about the problem with people disconnecting. The only reason anyone should ever be disconnecting is because their internet fails, their system crashes, or a real life emergency pulls them away. Doing so for any other reason, particularly to try and affect the outcome of the match, is at best rude and disrespectful, and at worst outright cheating. You made the mistake of advocating CHEATING. Apparently, in your mind, if you feel something in the game is wrong, it gives you the right to violate the standards of the game. It does not. I'm an optimistic person, and I really want to see the best in everyone. I'm hoping laying it out this way will get through to you.
I go by the following rules:
- Don't cheat, either by hacks or lag spikes.
- Don't disconnect; if you start a game, finish it.
- Be humble in victory and courteous in defeat.
Some games are going to go wrong. Some games are going to end up with you on the ground for most of the match, or tunneled and hooked enjoying a Mori without ever really having a chance. I had all of those happen to me today. It is part of the game. You shrug off the defeats, and learn whatever you can from them.
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I'd like to add, don't DC and then
None of your ends justify your means of getting there. You don't get to encourage dodging because you don't like the bugs that are in the game. The adult thing to do is to leave after you've given feedback and come back when you feel the bugs have been fixed or things have changed the way you want them. The absolute MOST childish thing to do is throw a temper tantrum and DC because something didn't go the way you want to.
Generally speaking, don't DC then come back into the lobby to berate the person you didn't think played right. That's just toxic and inappropriate. If you DC, stay gone. Don't come back. You made your point, no one cares what you have to say afterwards. You took the cowards way out, just go away.
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You're right! That would be a quick and easy fix.
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Nothing you said made sense. You went out of your way to misconstrue every single sentence I typed.
1)I'm stressing a harsh but incredibly apt comparison to DC as childish and petty behavior."
And I actually don't care at all. The underlying problems need to be attacked in order to remedy the problem of DCs. You are failing to even acknowledge the reasons people have for DCing in the first place, which is where you should've started with your first post.
2)"However I wish you many disconnects from Killers who are just being totally fair and I'm sure you will take each one in stride."
I really do. The idea that you could get angry at another person for not having fun is so utterly foreign I can't even begin to relate. Like, I cannot imagine sitting at my computer to play a game and someone else quits and then feeling angry with it. I feel pity if anything but certainly not frustration. It's bizarre to me that something like that would rile you.
3)"You are not debating the merits of slugging. You are not appealing to the devs"
I've already debated that and you never delivered a counterpoint. I pointed out that slugging people just to secure a game you've already won is pointless and boring for the guy you slugged and you're only response to that amounted to "fuggem that's why". You never gave a rationale for this. You just said that people who don't like being slugged shouldn't play- and that's really not fair. Especially given that you are slugging them to bypass the hatch mechanic entirely. Again, you never delivered a reason why that should be okay or allowed. No one did. You need to go back to these points and answer them if you want to move forward in the conversation because you haven't even tried to approach them. I've even told you before that you need to consider these things and you still haven't.
4)"What you're doing here is advocating and justifying people should disconnect cuz they mad"
Nope. Never did. I said I did it and I find it respectful. That's just me personally. You're only rubbing this in because you're hoping I'll get banned contrary to what you said earlier. It's literally the only reason you would make this accusation. It is immature and not productive. The real conversation should be why people are DCing in the first place and how to fix those problems. For some reason you don't want to have a productive conversation about those causal factors. Instead you want to cry about all the people that don't have fun with you and disconnect.
5)"I'm sure all the other disconnects I see as a survivor are actually because I wasn't fun. Lets keep laying that groundwork where you acting up = everyone else's fault."
You mentioned anecdotal evidence before- well this is it. I don't have the same problems you're having. You're not having the same problems I am having. That means we have two different gaming experiences and at some point you have to figure out that it is related to the way we play. Your playstyle will yield different results. If yours are resulting in lots of DCs then it may be your fault. Again, I cannot relate to your issues and there's a reason for that.
6)"I think it's fairly simple counting to 60 and I'm no human clock. You're drawing out an absurd scenario in bad faith"
Now this is amazing! You are telling me that every time you knock someone down, whether you know them or not, you simply count to 60? Every single time? So if multiple people are knocked down you're going to count to 60 for each one simultaneously? And you dare accuse anyone else of bad faith? You're lying through your fingers right now and it couldn't be more obvious. There is no way you're doing that for each survivor in every game. Not only are you blatantly lying about how you play the game but then you're going the extra mile and lying about this being an absurd scenario. Plenty of people have fallen in this scenario. I have it almost every game I'm the second to last survivor. It might be one of the most common scenarios in the game since someone has to be the second to last survivor. There is nothing absurd about this and it's actually extremely common.
" If you didn't know that slugging was acceptable before, you do now. So, until you can change the rules, please abide by the game that exists in goodfath"
This last argument you made is schizophrenic. On one hand, you're saying it is A-okay to slug the third person and leave them stranded and staring blankly at a screen while you secure the fourth kill just to puff up your pride and doing this obviously counters the entire hatch mechanics purpose- but on the other hand you have suggested it's wrong to slug both survivors to secure the hatch? You've already proven you don't care about "good faith" because you're slugging someone and ruining their experience in order to counteract the hatch mechanic altogether.
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1)"You seem unable to tell the difference between apples and oranges"
No I'm not. You're going to have to qualify this because it doesn't make sense at all in regards to anything we have already discussed. I imagine you won't even explain what you meant by this.
2)"In other words, you don't like a certain situation at the end, so you advocated cheating as a solution to it"
I can't imagine what it's like to be you. So small that that most amount of power you could possibly hope to latch onto is misrepresenting all of someone's arguments just so you could get them banned. You're pathetic. Maybe you feel cheated, but I suggested that not everyone in that situation is cheated which is undoubtedly true since it does give someone the opportunity to escape. Secondly, a killer who slugs to circumvent the hatch mechanic should be construed as cheating. I'm not suggesting people should cheat, but obviously there's a reason people are DCing and you need to figure out why if you want it to stop happening. The fact that slugging to avoid a mechanic put in the game to help survivor's is being used that means that cheating has been made officially okay'd by the team and apparently is supported by the mods. It is not an honorable thing to do no matter what anyone says. I've done it before out of pettiness but it doesn't sit right with me still. Obviously there's a problem whether you want to admit it or not but the sooner you do the sooner we can have a real discussion.
3)"My advice, and this is given in good faith and not snarky sarcasm, is that you need to be able to tell these very different topics apart"
"You SHOULD start a new Discussion making suggestions on what you think would be a good idea for the end of a match"
"But the discussion in this thread is about the problem with people disconnecting"
Look at these three statements. First you say that I'm not following the topic, then you suggest I start another thread discussing on how to fix the game so people don't DC, then you say that this discussion is about people disconnecting. I'm posting the underlying answers to why people DC. That is why it is relevant. This thread wasn't designed so you could have a whining-fest about people leaving the game. We're punching past that and getting to the bottom of why people are disconnecting. It's not just one issue either. Ending crappy matches early in a decisive way without cheating people is only one solution.
4)"You made the mistake of advocating CHEATING. Apparently, in your mind, if you feel something in the game is wrong, it gives you the right to violate the standards of the game"
I said I have done it because I felt it was altruistic. I didn't market it, I just put my spin on it. It's how I feel. The killers that slug the penultimate player to override the hatch measure should be construed as cheating and I don't care what anyone says. It's putting someone in a painful situation just so you could squeeze out another kill when you've already won the game. The best game of killer I have EVER had was playing against a group and it was a tight match. I left one slugged so I could get the other and I did. But the one I slugged knew where hatch was and I knew he was close so I left the last guy down to walk over to him- but he DC'd. The penultimate player I originally left slugged made it to the hatch because his buddy took a five minute timer penalty and loss of blood points for him. It was an ultimate act of sacrifice in a tight game. I abused the hatch measures so I could get them all because I knew they were good. According to you, he cheated me, but it was such a bro-tier move I couldn't help but respect them for it. I think I left an impression because the guy that got away played with me randomly later as killer-using my same perks and my same devilface-classicrobes outfit. It's the only game I actually distinctively remember all the details of and probably the only one that I'll remember in the future. My point is that it may seem unethical to you but it is certainly not immoral even though you act like it is, and it is no more unethical than what I did when I tried to cheat them out of the hatch. If I got to replay that game over and over with different people knowing that I would be "cheated"(according to you), I would do it. Not telling you that you should in the case you think I'm still telling you that you have to do this. According to you I should be the victim in this scenario but I certainly don't feel that way.
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" if you feel something in the game is wrong, it gives you the right to violate the standards of the game"
And to be clear, if anyone feels anything is wrong then they always have a right to violate the standards imposed on them. Morals always trumps ethics and it should never be the reverse. I'm saying this not to advocate cheating as I know you will insist, but because it's a life lesson that you will carry with you through real world situations. I have had jobs where I was expected to keep my mouth shut and watch people get dicked over because the people in charge felt okay with that. It would not have been right to be complicit. History teaches you enough about what happens when ethics take precedence over one's own morals.
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"The absolute MOST childish thing to do is throw a temper tantrum and DC because something didn't go the way you want to."
I never advocated this. I merely said that in the situation of a slug-hatch standoff where the killer is slugging the penultimate player in order to secure a 4k and in the process screw the survivor out of the entire hatch mechanism, that it could be considered altruistic to leave the match and let the last player get the hatch. I say this because I was playing killer in the best match I've ever had and this is what the team did to me to get their last slugged player to escape. According to you I should be the victim, but I respected what they did.
"Generally speaking, don't DC then come back into the lobby to berate the person you didn't think played right. That's just toxic and inappropriate. If you DC, stay gone. Don't come back. You made your point, no one cares what you have to say afterwards. You took the cowards way out, just go away."
This sounds like you're speaking to a thousand other players that you have personally played with that aren't me. I've never done this, I've never said I've done this, I don't know why you would assume I've done this.
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That last part wasn't you, which is why I said generally speaking.
Your first part, fair. You weren't speaking broadly but in a specific situation.
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No the problem with your premise is you're screwing other people in the game.
No, I'd someone feels something is wrong, that does *not* entitle them to violate those standards. Otherwise I could argue I could murder someone because I felt they were wrong and violating my standards. That's not how society works.
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Well, I was hopeful, but not optimistic. You fail in every way imaginable, analytically, rhetorically, and more importantly... ethically. I'm trying to do you a favor here. I don't know if you have noticed, but you aren't winning anyone over to your side. In fact, every time you post you dig yourself in a little deeper. I'm not into clubbing baby seals, so I'm tired of this. However, just be aware... every time you make a post advocating cheating... people are going to call you on it.
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"No, I'd someone feels something is wrong, that does *not* entitle them to violate those standards. Otherwise I could argue I could murder someone"
DCing is not the same as murder lol
And DCing so someone can get a hatch is like jumping on a grenade so they can live.
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"You fail in every way imaginable, analytically, rhetorically, and more importantly... ethically."
If that were true, then you could point out how. Since you can't it's because I haven't. You haven't actually brought up any valid points whatsoever and then misconstrued everything I said. Can you even name an argument that didn't revolve around your attempt to get me banned? It's literally why the mods came in here. When the mods come in then everyone else feels safe to attack that same thing regardless of what was actually said. The whole thing was pretty underhanded and dirty.
"you aren't winning anyone over to your side. In fact, every time you post you dig yourself in a little deeper"
I'm just stating points and waiting for counterpoints. No one has yielded a single counterpoint. The entire conversation is me pointing out "hey, maybe people are DCing because ____" and then you and two random people saying "cheating is bad man". We're talking past each other and it's because you refuse to talk about anything substantial.
"every time you make a post advocating cheating"
I pointed out that there is a situation where a person DCing can benefit a person in the game and explained why that DC happens. You keep coming back to this because you're trying to get me banned. I know because I've had two mods talk to me, so I know you're the one that reported me. Twice. Why? Because you can't handle conversations apparently.
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I didn't report your post; why would I? You posted advocating cheating on the Forum. The Moderators read the posts to moderate them. Did you think they wouldn't notice? If you are talking about reporting in a match, I absolutely would report someone for disconnecting in game. I record every match so I can provide video evidence. And yes, I have reported people before for doing EXACTLY what you advocated, i.e. one person simply disconnecting at just the right time so the person I was chasing would get the hatch before I caught them. Clearly, that took SWF-style communication since neither of them could see each other. The one that disconnected wasn't even on the hook or slugged.
I know the Forum has ways to report a post, but I didn't report you. I was perfectly content to point out the unethical garbage of your position, and hit you with it over and over again until I got bored. To be honest, you are pretty boring. When it became clear that you simply cannot understand (discern) the right and wrong of the matter, trying to reach you became moot. I'll tilt at the cheater windmill until Hell freezes over. As far as I am concerned, that is a worthy fight. But I'm sure other people are pretty sick of our belaboring this further. I'm stepping out unless you openly call for cheating again. Lying is also bad for your image. 1. I didn't report you. 2. The Moderators have strict ethics and they wouldn't tell you who reported you anyway.
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"GAWSH! I"M NOT ADVOCATING CHEATING.... IT'S JUST AN INCREDIBLY NOBLE SACRIFICE!!!"
Please just stop already. Your whole crusade is intellectually dishonest, delusional, or both. Whatever sly insinuations you think you're getting away with.... you're not. Everyone keeps calling you out for advocating cheating because that's what you're doing, albeit with the incredibly petty style of a child hovering their hands a centimeter over you and going "OH! I'M NOT TOUCHING YOU! I'M NOT TOUCHING YOU!!!"
For whatever reason, you can't distinguish between actions and behaviors within the game's context (ones also explicitly approved) from those trying to affect the game from outside that in-game context (ones also explicitly prohibited as clarified to you officially now). That's... weird, but whatever. The part that's really screwy (aside from the persecution complex) is that you still refuse to walk away at that point like an adult and simply agree you disagree with the standards. In a brazen sense of entitlement, you're ridiculously invoking the language of civil disobedience and moral standing to rationalize an act of FLIPPING THE GAMEBOARD OVER.
I'm just going to repeat what I'd already said last time, because this is the point where you should've stopped. And stopped. And stopped:
Regardless, it all ultimately comes down to this: if you can't accept the gameplay that exists as it does, then the only adult decision is that you shouldn't play. You don't take it into your own hands to disconnect when you get slugged. That is exactly like taking the ball home and boo-hoo-hooing all the way home. Just like we started with. Just like this conversation will end up with. Because that's what it is. You may never agree with that, but the rules of this game certainly gel with that comparison. If you didn't know that slugging was acceptable before, you do now. So, until you can change the rules, please abide by the game that exists in goodfath or make that mature decision not to play.
Please heed your own advice and grow up. This is beyond ridiculous.
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maybe that could work but it be odd new player in the middle of a game not knowing what going on.
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Removing DC penalty is very strange. The game is so much worse now with all the DCs
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Penalties were removed due to them being able to be hacked and give people who did not dc a penalty. and we aren't talking a single game that penalizes the wrong person but a specific person being given a 72 hour ban in a high profile way (since they are a fog whisperer and a high level streamer).
They HAVE brought up valid, just not valid in your books. you are advocating cheating, you are the one that the mods censured I certainly did not report the post. Stop blaming others for your issues. I have taken issue with your posts before and you have blown them off because you didn't like them. Disconnecting is cheating; why? if you do something against the rules then you are CHEATING. I don't care if the devs made a rule you ethically do not like but you can't say "If the killer walks sideways two inches then backwards four then runs forward 10 it's ok to dc" and then say well i don't advocate for people to dc, because you JUST DID! (yes that was not what you said but it was for an example) NOW here is the thing, if you break the rules, the End Users License Agreement you agree to EVERY TIME you log into the game allows those in charge to do what even is within the rules to you, and that includes removing your ability to play the game for a time or for good. THIS IS THEIR CHOICE not yours.
ALSO the underlying cause for the disconnects is not what you are saying it is, it is the fact that people decide (killer or survivor) they don't like something so they feel since they paid for it they can just up and quit. sure they can do so as the functionality is available to them, but they also MUST accept that they can be punished for it if behavior wants to do so. "I don't like playing freddy, I'll dc." "I don't like Ormond, I'll DC" I don't like blah, blah, blah. key is that they do not like it so they leave it. the only time that the leave match functionality is supposed to be used is when the game will not come to a natural conclusion (via sac/escape) so that you don't have to wait 2-3 hours for the match to be dropped by the server. It is not something to be used because the killer nodded at you, or slugged you, hit you on the hook, or that the survivors are tbaggin you, or played a map offering. none of these are reasons to use OUT OF MATCH FUNCTIONALITY.
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I don't believe you because of how petty you've been this entire time. Every time I moved the topic forward to underlying causes of DCs you just went back to screaming cheater every single time. You had nothing worthwhile to say this entire time and just repeated this one point over and over again even when I was clearly talking about other things related to it. If you saw that the mod had already stepped in- then why else would it be worthwhile to tell me something we all already knew? I even explicitly told you that I wasn't advocating it and then you kept insisting I was after I told you I'm not. And then you, like the other, strangely had the nerve to mention "good faith" hilariously. Even stranger was the fact that you acknowledged that I was talking about underlying causes but wanted it moved to a different thread even though that would just clog up the board when this thread is fine.
And what was all of your fuss about? You felt cheated out of a few thousand bloodpoints? Sure. I get that. But I've already given you a scenario where I don't feel cheated by it, underlying causes as to why DCs happen, and there are at least two different ways survivors and killers could be compensated if the issues were fixed- but hey that would be conversational progress and we can't have that.
"Lying is also bad for your image"
What image? This is a forum? We don't know each other. And secondly I didn't like. I said something and you could either deny it or claim it. The fact you've done nothing but make personal attacks and accuse me of cheating when my whole point was to challenge your views made you suspect.
"I record every match so I can provide video evidence"
You remind me of that Twilight Zone where the guy collects evidence on all of his neighbors and social figures and reports them to the police. TO BE CLEAR I am not advocating you to not report the horrible misdeeds of everyone or anyone who trespasses on your precious game time and/or bloodpoints, but this seems like a really weird thing to do for someone just having fun in their spare time.
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"Your whole crusade"
There is no crusade. I was just pointing out reasons, especially one horrible scenario, that you and others support that leads directly to DCs. If you don't like it that's your problem. You keep complaining about how people shouldn't play the game because of the filthy way you play but in all reality no one has to play with you and if you keep complaining about other people not wanting to play with you maybe you should be the one to take a break.
"Whatever sly insinuations"
There aren't any. I told you why people don't like playing with you. Get over yourself.
"you still refuse to walk away at that point like an adult and simply agree you disagree with the standards"
I did that already in my second post. Then I followed up and did that in every other post sense then. I don't owe you an apology but you seem to think I do, which if anything is a brazen sense of entitlement. You're doing the same thing mound is doing- just repeating the same thing over and over again like a broken record without actually discussing the real points and problems that were brought up. The fact is, whether you like it or not, I presented a scenario where someone supposedly "cheated" me and I respected them for it. The whole point is that the game, by valuing altruism, has created scenarios where it is morally altruistic yet ethically considered cheating to DC. That's where the discussion was initially put at in the first place. Rather than actually explaining how to fix this or even acknowledging it- you and two just keep screaming cheater the entire time. Maybe this is my fault because you seem dysfunctional.
"I'm just going to repeat what I'd already said last time"
I'm not reading that. Everything you need to do to advance the conversation has already been repeated. If you don't like playing with other people and they obviously have a problem with you then you need to reevaluate yourself.
"grow up"
You keep saying these things that apply to you and only you. Watch this:
"GAWSH! I"M NOT ADVOCATING CHEATING.... IT'S JUST AN INCREDIBLY NOBLE SACRIFICE!!!"
"OH! I'M NOT TOUCHING YOU! I'M NOT TOUCHING YOU!!!"
"FLIPPING THE GAMEBOARD OVER"
Complete with three exclamation marks. You sound like a child but you expect anyone else to take you seriously? You seem neurotic and you definitely need a break. Probably from internet interactions as well. Again, drop the pointless accusations and debate the myriad of other points that were put to you.
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Status Effect: Projection
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What you view as the underlying causes do not matter; they are entirely irrelevant. You advocate cheating as an acceptable option. That is the only thing that matters in so far as the communication between you and I. You see cheating as acceptable; I (most people in fact) don't. I don't care if you believe me. Anyone who has read my posts know that I'm almost painfully strict about what I say. I don't believe in hypocrisy. If I had reported you, I would happily admit to it because you did violate the Forum rules by advocating people break the game's rules.
Personally, I don't think anyone reported you. I think the Moderators just saw your post. :)
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"They HAVE brought up valid, just not valid in your books"
Yes, and there's no reason I should consider it valid. Nor should you. We know DCs happen so why can't we talk about why they happen? I'm not telling anyone that they should do it to others. I don't feel cheated when people do it to me. That's all. The problem is that you and two others refuse to admit the underlying causes and it's really weird you would invest so much discussion on something and not move past your initial claim. My point is that DC happens for a reason and you probably need to figure out what those reasons are and then we can talk about what can fix the issue.
"I certainly did not report the post"
....I wasn't speaking to you Freki? Are you just Mound with a second account? lmfao
And no I don't advocate cheating. I just said I don't feel cheated by something like this that happens and gave you a scenario where it happened to me and I didn't feel cheated. Rather than reiterating something we've already hammer at least a dozen times, why not discuss why I should feel cheated when I didn't? Or the scenarios that cause it? Or how to fix those scenarios? Because I keep telling you over and over and OVER again that this is not the intention of my conversational points. Move past it.
"'if you do something against the rules then you are CHEATING"
What a brave position to take lol we've already kind of established this like in the very beginning of this thread
"yes that was not what you said but it was for an example"
So you accuse me of "advocating cheating" and then admit that's not what I said? Why are you going to accuse me then back out of it in the very next breath? This is absurd. You are absurd. At this point I can't tell if you're either just piggybacking on others for the attention or if this is an alt account. This is a very bizarre thing to do.
"ALSO the underlying cause for the disconnects is not what you are saying it is, it is the fact that people decide (killer or survivor) they don't like something so they feel since they paid for it they can just up and quit"
Read the first part where you said it's not what I said it is. Now read the part's where that's exactly what I said it is. I've already covered very specific scenarios that the game encourages it. I already posted about how a group did it to me for morally altruistic reasons and I respected them for it. I'm not saying you have to(although, I think my mentality is a little bit healthier than the guy who records every game and submits video evidence every time a player doesn't sate his ego and decides not to play). The point of that is that I can see why they did that. If you want people to not do that, you have to give them alternatives. But you gave a few good examples. People who DC on a map they don't like when there are offerings to go where they do want to- that's an uncommon but fair example that happens from time to time. I've never done that, I don't know anyone personally who does that, I don't see why you would do that, and even worse there is no work around for people who are too lazy to light an offering just to go to a map they like. I don't think there's an answer to fix that particular problem.
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That's literally been you this entire time, you're doing it right now with this post lmao
But I have to say, I really like that you and mound get back to me within minutes of replying. I appreciate the expediency. Kind of weird your account was made in late 18' but you have only a few interactions, likes, and comments with this much activity.
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Status Effect: Paranoia
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"What you view as the underlying causes do not matter; they are entirely irrelevant"
I wasn't speaking personally. The very first post I made that told you why people might do it for altruism literally happened to me. I was the killer in the best game I've ever had when it happened. Tell me why I should feel cheated? I'm not saying they didn't break the rules, but if you can't grasp the underlying causes of why it happens then you can't even begin to talk about how to fix them. This statement proves that you have zero interest in actually figuring out the issue and solving the problem because those things are relevant to everyone and they should be relevant to you.
"You advocate cheating as an acceptable option."
Show me where I said more people should do this. I told you that it had been used for altruistic purposes and then gave you an example where people used it against me to demonstrate the source of why that comment was made. Obviously there's a problem with the game if people feel the need to DC not just for pointless purposes, not just for selfish purposes, but for selfless purposes as well. Now if you really find that so painful to hear then you can argue why that wasn't selfless and why I should've felt cheated when that SWF did it to me. According to you, I as the killer should have felt cheated but I didn't. That's just me personally. That entire point I brought up was just something that happened to me and I thought they were being selfless by doing it-which they were. I lost maybe 2k bloodpoints for him doing that to save his friend, he lost almost 30k. I get that if it were you, you would have video evidence a written,notarized hardcopy of your complaint kept on file with a triplicate sent to BHVR headquarters with the duplicate filed for possible future legal injunction for infringing on terms of service- but you fail to:
1)Understand why DCs happen.
2)Offer solutions for why DCs happen.
3)Attempt any method of offering or playstyle that mitigates that behaviour.
We get it. You don't like it when people quit your games. But really there is no reason for you to post constantly and say nothing of value. What's the point of repeating yourself if your only claim is erroneous(screaming cheater) and you can't figure out what's causing people the kind of distress you obviously have over it.
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There is nothing altruistic about cheating the Killer's player. Again, as I explained in my very first response to you, your fellow Survivors are not the only living, breathing players in the game. The Killer is also a Player, not a bot, and deserves to be treated respectfully and not cheated. Any use of something outside the game (and a disconnect most certainly meets that criteria) to affect the outcome of the game, is a cheat. I called you on it, other people called you on it, and the Moderator called you on it. You have been literally hit but a BUS with the words "DON'T ADVOCATE CHEATING" painted on the side. That bus is metaphorically full of the people who have addressed this with you.
At this point I don't know which is worse, that you are incapable of understanding such a black and white issue (which would make me question your faculties) or that your pride and arrogance are so pronounced and bad that you simply cannot accept your mistake. You seem to be one of those people who has to have the last word. Well, you know what, I'm going to give it to you. You bore me. I pity you. I said I was stepping away earlier but you sucked me back in because I seriously want to get through to you. But I'm done with this advocacy for cheating. Until you come online with yet ANOTHER different type of cheating you are supporting, I'm out.
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The biggest thing I hate is when the 2nd to last Surv DCs to give the last guy a faster hatch escape. That's not just poor sportsmanship, that's using exploits IMO
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No. You're saying "we should talk about DCs! These are the reasons!"
Nobody cares. Reasons are irrelelvent if you're screwing up the game for others. As I said, your ends do not justify the means.
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