Tunneling isn't 'Skill'
Comments
-
I totally agree on that one. Fighting all the bugs dead zones and all the crap that comes with dedicated servers your lucky if you get a 2k against red ranks survivors
0 -
It's not a skill, but it is a strategy. It's a strategy that fails you if you use it wrong. If you actually tunnel someone you're wasting time and not pressuring anyone else off gens. You'll be hitting BTs and take at least one DS. By the time the chases are over and you've tunneled the one person out a majority of the gens would have popped if not all.
0 -
You utterly ruined him lmao
1 -
The user and all related content has been deleted.1
-
That doesn't mean it takes skill to use certain tools that led to that victory. Tunneling is a tool killers can use that doesn't require skill. You can't compare the win itself to a single tool that could have been used in conjunction with others to win. So, it's not a skill lmao
0 -
Sometimes tunneling can win you the game if you can start a slugfest afterwards and build on the pressure , but notice I'm saying "they come back" a good killer doesn't camp and will be chasing a different survivor after a hook get the down if they can quick enough or waste a few pallets and go back to hook to start slugging when notification procs because you have 3 survivors under pressure that way that aren't on gens , the guy on hook, the guy unhooking and the guy you're chasing before you go back , I'll intentionally down the guy off hook sometimes just for my infectious to proc and tell me where the rest of them are, I'm there to kill not have a sleepover...
0 -
Tunneling is not a skill though, it is a strategy which is a combination of different actions and decisions that have to be executed. A well executed plan does not make the plan a skill.
0 -
The user and all related content has been deleted.0
-
The user and all related content has been deleted.1
-
Why are you in a deadzone? Generators do not (usually) spawn in dead zones, so if you got caught out of position it is 100% on you.
0 -
The chiseling of the material takes skill, to showcase the sculpture that holds within, but tunneling is not the chiseling element it is the sculpture. In your analogy.
There is a difference between a strategy and the execution of it. A plan is not skill, but successfully executing a plan requires skill. You want to be nitpicky about terms, then you need to understand what a strategy is: a plan of action designed to achieve a long-term or overall aim.
It is not the action itself and therefore cannot be done, it isn't what you do: what you do is chase, knock down, hook the same target multiple times in a row, equivalent to the chisel and hammer.
It isn't a strawman that I am stating, your argument of a strategy being a skill is not accurate terminology.
0 -
It is a tactic, but you develop a specific skill set to use it appropriately. There lots of people who do it poorly and some that do it extremely well.
1 -
Uhm - I've had a lot of "survivors" saying that them gen rushing me is a skill.
When it's not, at all. You just have simple knowledge of map layouts and know your timing with loops ( if you actually interact with the killer - most don't now ) and juking.
But instead I get people wanting to play Hide and Seek & DARE to call it skill.
I can agree that tunneling isn't a skill; it's just an easy out when you're either mad or don't have good pressure.
I used to never tunnel, slug, or camp as killer; ever since the update with crossplay.. as an Xbox player - I have to do WHATEVER I can to even think about getting these try hard challenges done so I can get the last Tome charm.
Once I get it I'm mostly done with the game; I love the way it plays but people can just obliterate your day so fast it makes me want to cry.
1 -
Some people don't realize that this is actually gaming sense, a skill that not that many have, I couldn't agree more with you.
1 -
The notion that tunneling is skillful or not is inaccurate, as it is a strategic tactic that you can choose to try and do or not. The skillful aspect is the decision making of when to do it and the actual execution of it.
Based on your choices and execution of the skillset that is required to do the plan of action will determine the successfulness of the tactic.
Running around with the killer while your team splits up and does generators is a tactic, but it isn't a skill... looping the killer, moving them away from your team mates, them hitting skill checks, getting to the generators quickly undetected etc.
Every plan needs a skillset and to be executed, that is where skill comes into play. The plan itself is just a plan.
1 -
I agree, and I feel like tunneling a lot of the time, especially against good survivors, is bad for the killer because they are spending all of their time one person, leaving the other survivors to do gens and totems generally uncontested.
0 -
You're right. It's not skill. A lot of killers feel forced to play that way, even me. But the difference between me and all those other tryhards is that I admit that it's scummy. They know it is but are proud to have played that way and act like it was pure skill.
0 -
Survivor's goal: escape /// Killer's goal: kill survivors
Survivor Objective: doing 5 Gen /// Killer Objective: hook survivors
Survivors never do 99% 5 Gen then go back to each Gen to pop it. They just rush a Gen complete
Its just equal to Killers never do double hook 4 Survivors then go last hook on each one. They just rush a Survivor killed
1 -
"'Your the closest person', no s**t sherlock I just got off the hook near you"
its almost as if you shouldn't unhook when the killer is right there /s
If this happens the team messed up. So many people think its fine to unhook right in front of the killer because they're used to abusing certain perks. That mindset really needs to change.
If I take 2 steps away and you get unhooked and I have the choice between a 1 hook down injured survivor and a 0 hook down healthy one, the choice is obvious unless I'm worried about a perk, a pressing nearby gen, or something else.
The only "skill" tunneling can even possibly be tied to is decision making. Unfortunately tunneling 1-2 survivors is the optimal way to play killer, its a problem with the core game design. If you mean mechanical skill then no not really, you're still chasing and downing someone.
3 -
You're the one bringing up points that have nothing to do with the topic. The main topic is that tunneling isn't skill based and it isn't. No one said it doesn't take skill to win lmao
0 -
The user and all related content has been deleted.1
-
The user and all related content has been deleted.1
-
That's why I almost always run with unbreakable, borrowed time and Ds.
0 -
Preach fam got tunneled by a ######### clown after spamming tonics
0 -
Tunneling and camping is crappy but it can be the best option. If a group seems a little eager to save people and you aren't doing well I think it's fine to exploit that for protection hits, hook trades, baiting a heal from dying. It sucks to be the one being used but it should be expected that the killer do whatever dirty trick they can to kill. It seems dirty but it's a psychological play sometimes. Tunnel camp slug with 5 gens left shouldn't happen but some people suck and others may need a feel good match after being wrecked by a squad.
1 -
this is a pointless argument cause killers never see a fault in their actions ive been in games wher 1 person gets tunneled and killed with no gens done yet but thats "Strategy" no its not its miserable ppl who play this game to escape their own misery by making the game less fun for 1 person theres no strategy to it lets go back to old school days call of duty did yall call spawn camping "Strategy" I bet half of you got pissed off or screamed when it happened to you and before you bring up the subject of dont compare those to games let me restate that the point of killer is to kill and the point in cod is to kill both taxtics tunel/camping is 100% toxic ass gameplay theres no excuse for it other than you as a person just arent good now key lobbies I hear so many killers say dont bring keys and we wont bring moris well how about the 20 or so games where 90% were mori with no keys in lobby? also SWF lobbies get tunneled and mori'd cause I guess its toxic to play as a team in a team based survival game the lack of braincells from killers baffles me
0 -
...and rightfully so, cause who even wants to be killed!?
A killer’s primary objective is to... you guessed it.. kill you.
It seems silly for survivors to appease Killer’s demands (“don’t bring this, I won’t bring this” or “don’t do this, I won’t do this” etc) by not bringing these perks into matches when you look at the full spectrum of what a killer represents. Those tactics are deadly.
They want to hurt you, place you into a dying state, and then sacrifice your life to a foreign entity.
If killer players making these demands took a step back from the screen into reality for a minute to appreciate the outcome of a maniacal murderer with seemingly unstoppable force inside, standing before them in their peaceful gaming abode, who is prepared to do everything in its power to end their human lives, I’m sure they have a DS strategy somewhere buried within the back of their survival instinctive minds, fully at the ready, and wouldn’t hesitate to use it before allowing themselves to be brutally slaughtered.
(Since we’re all not put here on earth to routinely kill other humans in everyday life with knives and various weapons, that’s pretty much where that reality discussion ends)
...then they’d wanna go hang out with friends like Meg an Jeff over burgers an milkshakes whilst musicians like Kate play them a song, as grizzly fun buddies a la David an Jeff arm wrestle for $50 bucks at a nearby table... or Karaoke nite with pals resembling Dwight and Nea at an exciting joint in the vein of UH-Oh’s Pub & Grill!
...that’s much more fun than being slaughtered without being able to fight back... certainly rather do that😉😃
1 -
There's also soft tunneling. Tunneling a survivor but slugging them only, no re hooking. It allows them to be healed and it wastes another survivors time/Unbreakable usage.
0 -
That's not soft tunneling or tunneling of any kind. That's map pressure.
1 -
What kind of insinuation is that? And what should be the counter to that? Loop bad? Also you can as well argue like "loop good and they leave you because there are easier targets to tunnel". Tunneling the best player in the team normally results in a loss. This post makes not really sense.
Another thing: I feel like you created a new post because the first one got so much attention. Because it also seems like you don't really noticed what has been posted on your first thread.
And just a rant about your points (even if many others have stated a lot of that already):
- never heard someone say "tunnel is a skill", and indeed tunnel is a strategy. you lose gen pressure early, but gain more gen pressure once the first person is dead. tunneling at the end is not really tunneling. Actually killing the one person is bad, you should just down them and try to get more survivors injured to keep the game running. Once your primary target is dead, the rest will just leave.
- it is also an insinuation that every killer wants at least a kill, there are enough people not caring about kills but about good chases, saying "gg, I beat up your ass but you all managed to escape anyway, well played"
- As said, tunneling is no skill, but not because "it's not unique to be able to hit the same person again". You indeed need skill if you manage to down someone 3 times. If you have no skill, you waste 5 gens on that person and he still escapes
- You are not necessarily a pro if you get a 4k with tunneling, but you at least did decent or had an inefficient i.e. easy team. Also the amount of skill in this scenario is not measured on the 4k, but on the gens left. Killing 4 people before a gen is done is pretty impressive, no matter which strategy you followed.
- If the unhooked person is the closest one to the killer, that's a survivor fail. If not, this has nothing to do with tunneling but with camping. And this is easier to punish from survivor side than tunneling.
- If a killer calls himself skillful, it is probably just a salty/ironic response to a "Tunneler!" kickoff in chat. But just guessing
To summarize, most of your points and argumentation pick out a specific scene or condition, ignoring the multiple factors or reasons that can lead to it. I actually don't even know what you want to say with this thread. Except that you don't want to hear "I'm skillful" from a killer.
1 -
Why shouldnt it be skill? You still chase them like before.
Why should killer always make the game harder for themselves?
Ive never seen Suvivors who made the game harder for themselves.
4 -
I have never used a mori, yet have met multiple people bringing keys and using them. It happens on both ends and if I say anything about it, people act all smug... don't act like survivors are saints here, there are people on both that will bring what ever they want to 'win'.
The tunneling of a single person out of the game and no gens are being done, means that the survivors are doing something wrong and most likely handing their team mate on a silver platter to the killer. As you point out this is a TEAM game, if the team unhooks the poor survivor in the face of the killer without borrowed time, don't body block and take the protection hit, unhook and go hide instead of taking the heat off the person that just was bungling on the hook... it isn't the killers fault that the team is playing bad.
The goal of a killer is to murder and kill the survivors, making the game a 3v1 instead of a 4v1 is beneficial and if you are able to do that without losing all the generators and letting the other 3 escape... that is beneficial to the killers game. It baffles me that you complain about the braincells of a killer but don't realize that if a killer can tunnel 1 person out of the game and no gens are done that this would be a negative for the killer? Guess rushing your objective is only good for survivors right, because... hooking someone 3 times is the objective of the killer or do you do a gen for 1/5 of it, then move to the next, then to the next and the next and rotate till you have all 5 done?
There are enough gameplay elements that survivors do that has a sole purpose of ruining the gameplay of the killer, from constant flashlight saves to prevent hooks, body blocking at hooks to get the wiggle free, the tap the generator to stop the regression after a kick that takes 2 seconds, the 99% gate to avoid the collapse to be able to go for the save and spend no time at the gate for the get away and not to mention the tea bagging, clickers, etc.
It baffles me that survivors believe that killers don't deal with a ton of tactics, strategies and actions that have the soul purpose to disrupt their gameplay, make their life as difficult and frustrating as possible. Yet ooh way if the killer does stuff that disrupts their gameplay, joy and ease of play. Especially SWF tend to be super frustrating to play against due to their ability to communicate and maximize their disruptive nature to shut down the killers plays. You cannot kill a killer, but for sure as hell a team of survivors can shut down their gameplay... but that is just strategy right, playing efficient... such a double standard.
2 -
Oh look, a thread about people gatekeeping the survivor rulebook.
I've been playing this game for 4 years and I've in the top leaderboards for quite a few things, and I'll tunnel someone if I need the pressure. If survivors are doing everything they can to slam gens, and I'm not doing poorly except due to maybe a killer I'm playing or a map I'm on, then bet I'll try to get someone out.
If you specifically go out of your way each and every game to tunnel one person, guess what? BT exists. DS exists. You have all the tools you need to last longer, the exception being your own skill in looping and not being garbage at the game. But if you DO go out of your way to do that every game, then sure, I'd say you're a bad killer when you do it at 4-5 gens.
1 -
Lol I guess you get tunneled a lot. I'd recommend playing with people who don't perform unsafe unhooks. If I'm oni and your getting unhooked in my face, that's a free double down right there with my power and I take that opportunity every single time. Occasionally it will even get me my 2 hits in fast succession and ignore your borrowed time.
0 -
It's a lazy approach to a strategy, it's laughable and pathetic.
0 -
Damn you are just throwing punch after punch, I never realised before this that spontaneously combusting was a skill I had or needed until now.
0 -
Now that I'm solidly into the red ranks, I don't see tunneling as often. But unfortunately it's super countered by just looping them. Also helps if you see someone getting tunneled, try to run with them and split track marks. You gotta practice to know when that works, but it does often work once you get the hang of it.
But no, tunneling really doesn't require any skill. Its more luck that you find the worst looper on their team, then knowledge to know how far you need to walk away to trick them into unhooking quickly. Also it's so boring. Even the most aggravating survivors get boring to chase and hook after the 2nd one...
0 -
I hate getting tunneled as a survivor, it does suck. I often get killers who blatantly camp and then down me immediately, with team members that take me off hook in the worst ways. It's even worse now with console players. But it is what it is.
So what do I do? I avoid tunneling and camping when I'm killer to "pay it forward." That's my personal decision. But I will go out of my way to tunnel the bad survivors that are farming their teammates. That's my own little revenge *insert evil laughter here*. People are gonna do what they want to do and we just have to deal or move onto another game. People are going to get defensive and be toxic sometimes. Nothing I can do to change that. When I get a killer who doesn't erupt on me for looping, I appreciate it. And when I play against survivors that are chill in the chat and we can all have a laugh, even better. Just take some breaths and play how you want. Don't take life too seriously.
0 -
I learned it, therefore it is a skill.
2 -
Unpopular opinion tunneling is a crap excuse for bad teamwork. How about punishing the killer slam them gens and if the killer sees you running to the hook and you hide behind your unhooked friend its not my job to make sure your teammates step up and act like actual teammates. This phrase is so often said it reached a point where its been so badly undermined no one takes it seriously. The killer dosen't owe you an opportunity it's not in his interest to play nice. Instead go after captain immersion for ditching you and leaving you to fend for yourself.
2 -
But as you tunnel the rest of the team can do the gens. Then when all the gens get done you're gonna think that gen speeds are too fast. But hey, you still got that kill right?
0 -
If you got a 4k from only tunneling you aren’t skillful. I mean literally that’s all you did. Got a hook tunneled them and then repeated with the rest. You went against a bad team. Winning doesn’t inherently mean skill was needed. If we agree the act of tunneling itself isn’t skillful then a win where you only tunneled was a win that didn’t require skill to acquire. If tunneling a 1k isn’t skillful neither is tunneling a 4k lol
0 -
You might tunnel a bad team one by one and 4K but a skilled team of reds or purples you’re not gonna tunnel one by one and 4K with just an m1 killer without an exposed status perk. I may be wrong there might be some god tier killers out there that can pull it off
1 -
That's not strictly true, I feel like you haven't played much survivor and are just speaking from being a killer main. You get good at looping and no matter how good you are if a killer is focusing you they will eventually get you down unless they are pure #########, if you wasted enough of their time they sometimes get pissed off and either facecamp or proxy camp you because you lost them the game by playing well in which when you finally get unhooked your insta-tunneled off hook, slugged for 60 seconds then picked up and placed right back on it. At that point it's not a matter of how good you are because you get killed for being good
1 -
Popular opinion, you are making excuses for being a bad killer
0 -
This is exactly right. A tunneling/camping Bubba for example has an easy time on rookies but will get only 1 or 2 kills against coordinated or expert teams.
1 -
I’ve been in that position before. It’s where comms come in. Let team know to just bang gens and I’ll take the sacrifice. Poor bubba or who ever only one kill but most uncoordinated teams will come to rescue because it’s human nature to save someone in distress and we killers sometimes play on that but with some killers with instadowns you come or whole team comes to be billy bad ass most of the time survivors are gonna lose and killer now has possibly a 4K because killer baited three others with one hook. Survivors are just to damn altruistic sometimes. I’ve gladly died on hook for a three man escape and anyone on my team would do the same on a first down camping situation.
0 -
Lmfao all of these salty cry baby killer mains. Tunneling is not skillful. Its a nooby tactic that only bad killers rely on to get easy kills. That's fact. Stop crying cause survivors call you out.
1 -
The user and all related content has been deleted.1
-
The person being chased by the killer always feels like they’re being tunneled. Oh well.
2
![[Deleted User]](https://forums.bhvr.com/applications/dashboard/design/images/defaulticon.png)
